eD A7s-450 vs Chase Home Theatre CS 18.1 – The Shootout! - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 645 Old 01-08-2011, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Sepen View Post

Matt,

Are you going to be selling any of them?

Sepen I was telling Matt34 that I purchased the subs. My name is just my screen name backwards. Ingenious right haha? Anyway yes I will be selling all of the subs. I have no use for any of the subs in the shoot out upstairs since I have my custom made white eD A5-325 that was designed specifically for our living room. I need subs for the basement theater.......which has yet to be built. I would like to see what comes out in the next year or two while it's being built. So if anyone wants to buy one of the subs they can pm me before I put them up for sale.

Oddiodog I will say this to clear up any confusion and or questions you or anyone else might have. Here it is: My wife bought the subs for me and I bought her a bracelet with OUR money. I work 10-12 hours at my job and she has her own business. Neither business we work in has anything to do with the audio world. We have no "connections" in the audio business though it would be nice because these subs aren't cheap.
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post #182 of 645 Old 01-08-2011, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by oddiodog View Post

I thought I was just providing the opportunity to show the review is unbiased. I think it's a fair question. I take spending my money seriously.

It's a totally fair question and you should absolutely take spending your money seriously. But doesn't it make sense to let the review come out first? Who knows, it may actually answer your questions!
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post #183 of 645 Old 01-09-2011, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by diamonddelts View Post

Someone is taking this thread a little too seriously.

Really? One of the reviewers himself stated initially that he has associations with ED suggesting the possibility for bias. So that has everyone reading that he could be biased towards that sub. So now let's suppose another manufacturer servers them coffee and donuts while helping them set-up and test. Handshakes, cordiality and pats on the back. That to me would open the doors to bias for that manufacturer. But if it's not mentioned, and the ED possible bias is mentioned, then it's not an unbias test.

Which is fine to do. I'd just like to know about it. So I add that into my equation when possibly spending money on two of them.

Also, are you suggesting that it's not being too serious when other folks are questioning method testing like 1 meter ground plane vs 2 meter ground plane. Or short burst vs long burst. CEA testing standards or the reviewers history and qualifications for the test. Or specific manufacturers pointing out that audioholics sells subs on their site which slants it.

I see the above as all fair questions. Fair things to point out or inquire about. These forums, reviews and personal opinions are all we have to decide which ID products to spend our hard earned money on. It's a very powerful tool for purchase decision making. As soon as anyone googles one of these subs vs another this forum will show up high in the listings.

This review test is being tauted as a non bias review as opposed to the audioholics one. I believe the audioholics one will have bias. Everyone else can make their own judgement. I'll still read it and try to read through it. But I'm thankful it was pointed out. Whether it was pointed out by one of these subs manufacturers or not doesn't matter to me. It's good information.

I just want to know if the two brothers here, (for whom I have great respect and appreciation for doing this) received any help in any way from any of the manufacturers they are testing? Not just monetarily. If they did, then what? Free shipping? Tickets to the ballpark? Handshakes and donuts. Use of testing facilities?

The simple answer would be, "no, nothing, noone in any way." Done.
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post #184 of 645 Old 01-09-2011, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Madaeel View Post


Oddiodog I will say this to clear up any confusion and or questions you or anyone else might have. Here it is: My wife bought the subs for me and I bought her a bracelet with OUR money. I work 10-12 hours at my job and she has her own business. Neither business we work in has anything to do with the audio world. We have no "connections" in the audio business though it would be nice because these subs aren't cheap.

My inquiry aside. And my admiration for you and your brother doing this aside. Manufacturer affiliation from you or your brother or not.

I want to say regarding you and your wife - that's awesome. She clearly understands you. And you clearly understand her. I hope you both enjoy your presents. Wow. I'm still reveling in your gift of review fun and whichever sub you keep. Way cool.
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post #185 of 645 Old 01-09-2011, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by oddiodog View Post


Really? One of the reviewers himself stated initially that he has associations with ED suggesting the possibility for bias. So that has everyone reading that he could be biased towards that sub. So now let's suppose another manufacturer servers them coffee and donuts while helping them set-up and test. Handshakes, cordiality and pats on the back. That to me would open the doors to bias for that manufacturer. But if it's not mentioned, and the ED possible bias is mentioned, then it's not an unbias test.

Which is fine to do. I'd just like to know about it. So I add that into my equation when possibly spending money on two of them.

Also, are you suggesting that it's not being too serious when other folks are questioning method testing like 1 meter ground plane vs 2 meter ground plane. Or short burst vs long burst. CEA testing standards or the reviewers history and qualifications for the test. Or specific manufacturers pointing out that audioholics sells subs on their site which slants it.

I see the above as all fair questions. Fair things to point out or inquire about. These forums, reviews and personal opinions are all we have to decide which ID products to spend our hard earned money on. It's a very powerful tool for purchase decision making. As soon as anyone googles one of these subs vs another this forum will show up high in the listings.

This review test is being tauted as a non bias review as opposed to the audioholics one. I believe the audioholics one will have bias. Everyone else can make their own judgement. I'll still read it and try to read through it. But I'm thankful it was pointed out. Whether it was pointed out by one of these subs manufacturers or not doesn't matter to me. It's good information.

I just want to know if the two brothers here, (for whom I have great respect and appreciation for doing this) received any help in any way from any of the manufacturers they are testing? Not just monetarily. If they did, then what? Free shipping? Tickets to the ballpark? Handshakes and donuts. Use of testing facilities?

The simple answer would be, "no, nothing, noone in any way." Done.

DD and I certainly don't always agree, but he is 100% correct.

These guys are "private citizens" who seem to really enjoy this hobby and are trying to do something that will benefit a lot of us. As with any testing, you can decide how to utilize the results. If someone doesn't like their process, they should run their own testing.

This is in danger of becoming a prime example of how "no good deed goes unpunished"
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post #186 of 645 Old 01-09-2011, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

DD and I certainly don't always agree, but he is 100% correct. ]

These guys are "private citizens" who seem to really enjoy this hobby and are trying to do something that will benefit a lot of us. As with any testing, you can decide how to utilize the results. If someone doesn't like their process, they should run their own testing.

[This is in danger of becoming a prime example of how "no good deed goes unpunished"


I agree wholeheartedly with your first paragraph. Except I never said or inferred that I don't like their process. In fact I want to. I'm simply trying to clarify it.

Why is what I ask considered as punishment? Now I'm supposed to feel guilt or shame? Or better yet... shhh, keep my mouth quiet.

I have already stated in earlier posts that I think the guys are awesome for doing this. I have said I have great admiration for them. But that is assuming that they had no affiliation at all with any of the manufacturers. I honestly assumed they didn't and wanted to put that out there showing that was an unbiased read. But when I read what Below90Hz himself wrote in the intro about his working with ED, and I thought I read that they did a previous test over at the Craigs (Chase owners) house it made me wonder if there was any help provided in this test we don't know about.

I expected that one of the guys, I assumed Below90Hz because he had already answered a post of mine would have responded saying no affiliation, no how, no way. And then I would have been comforted knowing what I'm reading aside from him pointing out previous affiliation with ED (thanks for mentioning that) that it would be unbias.

But that hasn't happened. Instead, I immediately received a PM from one of the manufacturers questioning me not using my real name and hiding behind it along some other twisted arguments and calling my question asinine. Of course he never mentioned if he knew the guys. Since then I've had 2 more of the same ridiculous PMs back and fourth.

And aside from one of the brothers, Madeels response saying that only he alone has no affiliation to anyone, i've only read other trying to put me off from asking. It's a fair question. It's a forum. Why is it the simple answers, like, "NO neither of us have affiliation." are instead replaced by 9 other emails including private ones from a manufacturer with name calling?

All I wanted was for you guys to say no, so I could continue to gush over you doing this awesome test and excitedly read the results and possibly buy a pair of subs.
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post #187 of 645 Old 01-09-2011, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by oddiodog View Post


I agree wholeheartedly with your first paragraph. Except I never said or inferred that I don't like their process. In fact I want to. I'm simply trying to clarify it.

Why is what I ask considered as punishment? Now I'm supposed to feel guilt or shame? Or better yet... shhh, keep my mouth quiet.

I have already stated in earlier posts that I think the guys are awesome for doing this. I have said I have great admiration for them. But that is assuming that they had no affiliation at all with any of the manufacturers. I honestly assumed they didn't and wanted to put that out there showing that was an unbiased read. But when I read what Below90Hz himself wrote in the intro about his working with ED, and I thought I read that they did a previous test over at the Craigs (Chase owners) house it made me wonder if there was any help provided in this test we don't know about.

I expected that one of the guys, I assumed Below90Hz because he had already answered a post of mine would have responded saying no affiliation, no how, no way. And then I would have been comforted knowing what I'm reading aside from him pointing out previous affiliation with ED (thanks for mentioning that) that it would be unbias.

But that hasn't happened. Instead, I immediately received a PM from one of the manufacturers questioning me not using my real name and hiding behind it along some other twisted arguments and calling my question asinine. Of course he never mentioned if he knew the guys. Since then I've had 2 more of the same ridiculous PMs back and fourth.

And aside from one of the brothers, Madeels response saying that only he alone has no affiliation to anyone, i've only read other trying to put me off from asking. It's a fair question. It's a forum. Why is it the simple answers, like, "NO neither of us have affiliation." are instead replaced by 9 other emails including private ones from a manufacturer with name calling?

All I wanted was for you guys to say no, so I could continue to gush over you doing this awesome test and excitedly read the results and possibly buy a pair of subs.

I still think you are taking this way too seriously.

The "punishment" for these guys is 7 pages of people trying to hold something they are doing for entertainment to standards that few if any professional reviews achieve.

Madeels provided an answer regarding manufacturer affiliation. It didn't satisfy you, which is fine, but beyond what was posted, I'm not sure how they can prove they aren't secretly affiliated, taking bribes, or getting free stuff. Probably time to take it how you like and view their results accordingly.

That said, the messages you describe from the manufacturer is completely unacceptable. I'd be more interested in who feels that threatened than I am in any of the other questions raised so far. If there is anything the ID companies who follow these forums should have learned recently, customer relationship management and the impact of challenging customers and prospects is important - mistakes will have potentially serious consequences.
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post #188 of 645 Old 01-09-2011, 12:18 PM
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I concur, who is giving you flack via PM?


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Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

I still think you are taking this way too seriously.

The "punishment" for these guys is 7 pages of people trying to hold something they are doing for entertainment to standards that few if any professional reviews achieve.

Madeels provided an answer regarding manufacturer affiliation. It didn't satisfy you, which is fine, but beyond what was posted, I'm not sure how they can prove they aren't secretly affiliated, taking bribes, or getting free stuff. Probably time to take it how you like and view their results accordingly.

That said, the messages you describe from the manufacturer is completely unacceptable. I'd be more interested in who feels that threatened than I am in any of the other questions raised so far. If there is anything the ID companies who follow these forums should have learned recently, customer relationship management and the impact of challenging customers and prospects is important - mistakes will have potentially serious consequences.

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post #189 of 645 Old 01-09-2011, 12:45 PM
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i concur, who is giving you flack via pm?

+1...2....3...
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post #190 of 645 Old 01-09-2011, 12:47 PM
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+1...2....3...

Well....isn't this a 2 sub shootout? eD & CHT?
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post #191 of 645 Old 01-09-2011, 12:58 PM
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Well....isn't this a 2 sub shootout? eD & CHT?

Originally when this thread was started it was. But then they decided to make it a 5 sub shootout. The 18.1, A7S-450. And then they added an Empire, that new HSU sub, and I think a Rythmik sub as well. The full list is a few pages back.

Here's the list from page 5...

The line-up is as follows (in no particular order):

Rythmik FV15
Chase Home Theatre CS18.1
Epik Empire
elemental Designs A7s-450
HSU VTF-15H

1 Mitsubishi WD-82642 82" TV
1 Onkyo TX-NR929 11.4 setup
2 Emotiva XPA-5's
1 Emotiva XPA-100
1 Definitive Technology CLR 3000 (Center)
2 Definitive Technology BP2004TL's (Mains)
2 Definitive Technology ProMonitor 1000's (Heights)
6 Definitive Technology BPX's (Rears Wides Sides)
4 CHT VS-18.1 Subs
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post #192 of 645 Old 01-09-2011, 01:03 PM
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This sub shootout is great! I can see how someone might speculate as to there possibly being some hidden agenda behind it all. But that's to be said with any review done by anyone. I'm really looking forward to reading how this all turns out. Because in about 3 weeks from now, I will FINALLY be buying a pair of something.....! Either a pair of A7S-450's or an 18.1T! I can't wait damnit.

Part of my decision will be based off of how this shootout turns out.

1 Mitsubishi WD-82642 82" TV
1 Onkyo TX-NR929 11.4 setup
2 Emotiva XPA-5's
1 Emotiva XPA-100
1 Definitive Technology CLR 3000 (Center)
2 Definitive Technology BP2004TL's (Mains)
2 Definitive Technology ProMonitor 1000's (Heights)
6 Definitive Technology BPX's (Rears Wides Sides)
4 CHT VS-18.1 Subs
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post #193 of 645 Old 01-09-2011, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by yadfgp View Post


Originally when this thread was started it was. But then they decided to make it a 5 sub shootout. The 18.1, A7S-450. And then they added an Empire, that new HSU sub, and I think a Rythmik sub as well. The full list is a few pages back.

Here's the list from page 5...

The line-up is as follows (in no particular order):

Rythmik FV15
Chase Home Theatre CS18.1
Epik Empire
elemental Designs A7s-450
HSU VTF-15H

Ah. Ok. Hmm I'm wondering who's sending nasty pm?
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post #194 of 645 Old 01-09-2011, 01:23 PM
 
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Yeah, me too......, but I have my suspicions...!
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post #195 of 645 Old 01-09-2011, 01:23 PM
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Yeah, me too......, but I have my suspicions...!

Lol. Well I doubt it's Alex that's for sure!
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post #196 of 645 Old 01-09-2011, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Its NFL day! So I just wanna quick pop in and clarify a few things:

1) My history with eD isn't job history, its "I bought an A7s-450, had major problems with it, love the sub but wasn't happy with the customer service. I posted an in-depth review about it." So I mention that so that people know there is a potential for bias there given my experience.

2) Don't beat on oddiodog too bad! I lost my job three times since 2008 so I too take spending $1000 on something pretty serious.

3)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

These guys are "private citizens" who seem to really enjoy this hobby and are trying to do something that will benefit a lot of us. As with any testing, you can decide how to utilize the results.

That is 100% correct - and also it is great brother bonding time!

4) Questions and doubts are expected. We brought it on ourselves for giving teasers - but we're just so excited we had to say something! But it doesn't bother us at all. We're just having fun, hope you guys will too!

Quit readin my signature ya stupid signature reader.
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post #197 of 645 Old 01-09-2011, 02:18 PM
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Its NFL day! So I just wanna quick pop in and clarify a few things:

1) My history with eD isn't job history, its "I bought an A7s-450, had major problems with it, love the sub but wasn't happy with the customer service. I posted an in-depth review about it." So I mention that so that people know there is a potential for bias there given my experience.

2) Don't beat on oddiodog too bad! I lost my job three times since 2008 so I too take spending $1000 on something pretty serious.

3)

That is 100% correct - and also it is great brother bonding time!

4) Questions and doubts are expected. We brought it on ourselves for giving teasers - but we're just so excited we had to say something! But it doesn't bother us at all. We're just having fun, hope you guys will too!



Thanks Below90Hz. But I can take a punch. And swing back in return.

So does that mean you guys have had no help in any way during this test from any of the other manufacturers? From using their home, being buddy buddy, or any other way?

Again, it's not you guys I have concerns about. I think you guys (and Madeels wife for being cool and understanding) are awesome.

I am only concerned about any hand any other manufacturers might have had in the process. I ask because it can skew the results for that manufacturer. I wouldn't write honest negative viewpoints on one sub companies site forum just because I felt a camaraderie after his employees posted some friendly responses to my inquiries. I didn't know these guys from Adam, but I didn't write what I felt because of a few friendly posts. As well I could see others negative viewpoints weren't being well received.

So it's not a stretch to suggest friendly help, nice things said, new friends etc, could affect the what you review. Even if it isn't intentional from you.

Your testing and reviews may be and should be fun for you guys. But we all know we can't trust the magazines reviews as they have advertisers. We can't trust manufacturers forums because they all gush over their own products. So unbiased review sites are the only ones we have to look to. It's the beauty of the internet. It's already been pointed out publicly by one manufacturer that the Audioholics test is slanted because they advertise. That person also questions the methodology of their testing openly. Is that serious enough for you guys asking?

So all I want is to make sure he, or any other manufacturer didn't have helping hand in any way. If they did, well, it's a free world. I just want to know so that I personally can put less weight into that particular sub review. Everything else will be gold and fun.

2 years ago, 2 grand for a pair of subs was no big deal to me. Today, like you unfortunately it is. So it's important to me and I suspect many others who in the future google a comparison of subs and clicks on your review when it pops up at the top. It already does. That'll be a lot of people.

As for the manufacturer who PM'd me - originally i wanted to post our email trail here because I was miffed that he dragged it to a private area when this is an open forum. He also tried to get me to leave it alone by telling me my question was answered when it wasn't fully. And I was not pleased with the content in general. As well his attempt to quell me made me wonder more about whether he had a hand in your test. I also resorted back to name calling in return. I personally could care less to post the emails. But that said, my intention was never to harm anyone's business. And I feel it has the potential to do that to his in some way. It's hard enough out there. My intention was just to ensure what I was reading was unbiased in any way as I will be using it as a purchase decision tool. So at this time I choose to keep it to myself. I can tell you this. I won't be buying his sub. Even thought it may and I say may, be a great offering. I now feel I couldn't trust him or his company in lieu of a negative situation involving his product.
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post #198 of 645 Old 01-09-2011, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Pure-Evil View Post

Well....isn't this a 2 sub shootout? eD & CHT?

I would hope, in the end, it comes down to those 2.

Otherwise I didn't research/review enough!
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post #199 of 645 Old 01-09-2011, 02:56 PM
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I would hope, in the end, it comes down to those 2.

Otherwise I didn't research/review enough!

+1

I'm back to leaning more heavily towards CHT.

But really you can't go wrong with either of these 5 brands. I'm sure in the end once the shootout is finally over and published, that people will have enough good solid info to be able to determine which sub will work best for them in their given situation. All 5 subs are really 5 of the best in their respective price range.

1 Mitsubishi WD-82642 82" TV
1 Onkyo TX-NR929 11.4 setup
2 Emotiva XPA-5's
1 Emotiva XPA-100
1 Definitive Technology CLR 3000 (Center)
2 Definitive Technology BP2004TL's (Mains)
2 Definitive Technology ProMonitor 1000's (Heights)
6 Definitive Technology BPX's (Rears Wides Sides)
4 CHT VS-18.1 Subs
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post #200 of 645 Old 01-09-2011, 03:21 PM
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Thanks Below90Hz. But I can take a punch. And swing back in return.

So does that mean you guys have had no help in any way during this test from any of the other manufacturers? From using their home, being buddy buddy, or any other way?

Again, it's not you guys I have concerns about. I think you guys (and Madeels wife for being cool and understanding) are awesome.

I am only concerned about any hand any other manufacturers might have had in the process. I ask because it can skew the results for that manufacturer. I wouldn't write honest negative viewpoints on one sub companies site forum just because I felt a camaraderie after his employees posted some friendly responses to my inquiries. I didn't know these guys from Adam, but I didn't write what I felt because of a few friendly posts. As well I could see others negative viewpoints weren't being well received.

So it's not a stretch to suggest friendly help, nice things said, new friends etc, could affect the what you review. Even if it isn't intentional from you.

Your testing and reviews may be and should be fun for you guys. But we all know we can't trust the magazines reviews as they have advertisers. We can't trust manufacturers forums because they all gush over their own products. So unbiased review sites are the only ones we have to look to. It's the beauty of the internet. It's already been pointed out publicly by one manufacturer that the Audioholics test is slanted because they advertise. That person also questions the methodology of their testing openly. Is that serious enough for you guys asking?

So all I want is to make sure he, or any other manufacturer didn't have helping hand in any way. If they did, well, it's a free world. I just want to know so that I personally can put less weight into that particular sub review. Everything else will be gold and fun.

2 years ago, 2 grand for a pair of subs was no big deal to me. Today, like you unfortunately it is. So it's important to me and I suspect many others who in the future google a comparison of subs and clicks on your review when it pops up at the top. It already does. That'll be a lot of people.

As for the manufacturer who PM'd me - originally i wanted to post our email trail here because I was miffed that he dragged it to a private area when this is an open forum. He also tried to get me to leave it alone by telling me my question was answered when it wasn't fully. And I was not pleased with the content in general. As well his attempt to quell me made me wonder more about whether he had a hand in your test. I also resorted back to name calling in return. I personally could care less to post the emails. But that said, my intention was never to harm anyone's business. And I feel it has the potential to do that to his in some way. It's hard enough out there. My intention was just to ensure what I was reading was unbiased in any way as I will be using it as a purchase decision tool. So at this time I choose to keep it to myself. I can tell you this. I won't be buying his sub. Even thought it may and I say may, be a great offering. I now feel I couldn't trust him or his company in lieu of a negative situation involving his product.

This should give you some idea of the position the guys are in.

People are asking you to respond with information about a vendor you have a relationship with (albeit a bad one) to help with the selection process. It's something so important that you have made a buying decision based on that information.

It's your right to keep it private if you choose, but seems unfair to hold the brothers to a different standard.
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post #201 of 645 Old 01-09-2011, 03:49 PM
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This should give you some idea of the position the guys are in.

People are asking you to respond with information about a vendor you have a relationship with (albeit a bad one) to help with the selection process. It's something so important that you have made a buying decision based on that information.

It's your right to keep it private if you choose, but seems unfair to hold the brothers to a different standard.

You make an excellent point. I do see some major differences as I didn't initiate this under an unbiased review. And it may well be. Although under all the response circumstances I've reciever I believe I have my answer. No proof. But proof enough for me.

However that doesn't change your point. And Alrhough there ate differences, I agree with it. I'm on my iPhone now and in a store with the wife waiting in the car. I'm going to have to ponder this.

In the meantime, I invite the owner who PMd me to post our email trail since he seemed to feel so right about his views.
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post #202 of 645 Old 01-09-2011, 03:57 PM
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I don't even know what is going on with this thread anymore.

So, results...results...results!
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post #203 of 645 Old 01-09-2011, 04:12 PM
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I don't even know what is going on with this thread anymore.

So, results...results...results!

LOL. Well said...

1 Mitsubishi WD-82642 82" TV
1 Onkyo TX-NR929 11.4 setup
2 Emotiva XPA-5's
1 Emotiva XPA-100
1 Definitive Technology CLR 3000 (Center)
2 Definitive Technology BP2004TL's (Mains)
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6 Definitive Technology BPX's (Rears Wides Sides)
4 CHT VS-18.1 Subs
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post #204 of 645 Old 01-09-2011, 05:58 PM
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I want to say regarding you and your wife - that's awesome. She clearly understands you. And you clearly understand her. I hope you both enjoy your presents. Wow. I'm still reveling in your gift of review fun and whichever sub you keep. Way cool.

Thanks Odog. She is awesome. She actually was IN the house when we were testing the subs. The only thing is I'm selling my presents and she gets to keep her bling. Again that's only because it'll be awhile before the basement is done and that's where the new sub will go. I'd also like to do another shootout maybe at the end of this year again because it would be awesome to see what else comes out between now and when the basement is finished.

Ethan and I understand your concerns but I don't know how else to say it other than this: No one helped us purchase, set up, use their rooms,(it was done in my living room), gave us advice or any other type of help in this shootout. We did this for fun and hopefully people will enjoy it.
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post #205 of 645 Old 01-09-2011, 06:14 PM
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So does that mean you guys have had no help in any way during this test from any of the other manufacturers? From using their home, being buddy buddy, or any other way?

Boy you just don't let up do you ?
What do you want, a day by day life history ?
Using your criteria there is bias here plain and simple, but so what ?

Read the first post in this thread, they have been to CHT more than once. They shared food, drink, and fellowship plus they had fun... Big deal.

Next search for posts by below90hz and read the thread about his early ownership of the A7s450... this ended up in a slug fest between him and ED on this forum...
Yet he still likes the sub and the manufacturer and as far as I can tell ED still likes him and his brother... so obviously there is something fishy going on here too

That takes care of two subs.
Is there five in the shootout ??
If two out of five have obvious bias doesn't that pretty much corrupt the entire effort ??

I say to give these guys a break, and just enjoy whatever they share with the forum.
At the very least wait until they post the results to start hounding them and looking for conspiracy.

While I am really looking forward to the read, in the end its just another amateur review posted on the internet and probably should not be used as the only reference point to base a buying decision on.

Regards,
Charlie

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post #206 of 645 Old 01-09-2011, 06:21 PM
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my take on reviews...

I read craigs sublist rankings a while ago...they seemed like a good place to look, but purchased a 3.3 and was thinking about upgrading. My buddy had an MFW-15...took that sub and placed it in the same corner as my 3.3. Guess what, the HSU out performed the mfw both in output on the low end (the 3.3 seemed to go lower). No idea why, but it did tho. After that, I thought maybe craigs list could of had a hidden agenda, not sure. Often times, #'s are good, but you got to look at others things....customer service, warranty, product quality...Iam not buying something that has excellent #'s but fails in other catagories. I personally look at the whole picture, as others should.

I like to have an idea on the numbers of a sub...especially if they are done accurate and fair...but I guess some subs will perform differently, regardless of the numbers in a given room.

With that said, the numbers are a great place to look at when purchasing a sub when done accurate and look forward to the results...just hope tyhey are accurate.
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post #207 of 645 Old 01-09-2011, 06:31 PM
 
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The MFWs owe a great deal to that sub ranking list, I'm sure many were sold because of it. Too bad they turned out to have numerous problems, along with the company owner going to jail and all... If business and personal relationship bias had been scrutinized back then maybe the MFW wouldn't have been held in such high regard, and maybe so many people wouldn't have gotten burned, who knows? I wouldn't base any buying decision on an informal shootout, but I am interested in the results. Take it for what it is, hobbyists having fun, and enjoy what they post. Given the history the results may be predictable, but then again, they may not. The lack of reliable professional reviews and spec standardization within the subwoofer industry leaves us with little choice as to sub comparisons.
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post #208 of 645 Old 01-09-2011, 06:35 PM
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Thanks Odog. She is awesome. She actually was IN the house when we were testing the subs. The only thing is I'm selling my presents and she gets to keep her bling. Again that's only because it'll be awhile before the basement is done and that's where the new sub will go. I'd also like to do another shootout maybe at the end of this year again because it would be awesome to see what else comes out between now and when the basement is finished.

Ethan and I understand your concerns but I don't know how else to say it other than this: No one helped us purchase, set up, use their rooms,(it was done in my living room), gave us advice or any other type of help in this shootout. We did this for fun and hopefully people will enjoy it.

OMG. Thank you Madeel. I take your word for it. That's all I was looking for in the first place. Just simple confirmation. I will absolutely enjoy your reviews. I would have anyways. I share your passion. And appreciate your getting through this sooner for all of us excited about your thoughts results and opinions. I hope you have as much fun comparing your write-ups as you did testing. Although I'm hopeful of a future shootout from you guys, we'll see if you can get through this one first. I just asked if you guys had a helping hand in it. Wait till the #3 and #4 sub fanboys get going. I'll definitely look forward to reading 3 of them anyway.

And thanks for the solid straight forward response.
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post #209 of 645 Old 01-09-2011, 06:57 PM
 
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post #210 of 645 Old 01-09-2011, 06:59 PM
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lol
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