Dual DTS-10's and dual CS 18.2's - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 718 Old 11-18-2010, 08:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys, I ran the subs through their paces tonight. Consider this round 1 of 3. My CS 18.2's are in the back corners and the DTS-10's are in the front corners. The back corners give me much more output so I did not want a volume thing decide. I played 3 movies, The Dark Night, X-men last stand, and Transformers 2. I used 2 scenes each. This was basically to get used to the Dayton amps that came in today. I don't like the back corners because I prefer the bass to hit me from the front. The front subs ports are 14 feet away and the back subs(CS 18.2's) are 7 feet away, maybe 6. I calibrated both of them flat and turned my new Krell HTS 7.1(I love this thing) to reference levels. With them level matched the bass from the Danley's walked all over the CS 18.2's no matter what scene. The Danley's had bass where the CS 18.2's seemed silent. The midbass seemed on par with each other so kudos to CHT because the Danley's are $3000 each although it seems you can get them much cheaper in todays economy. The Danley's just had more visceral rumble, shake, pulse waves, and the punch or midbass was similar(I just said that). I knew something has to be wrong because at Craig's the CS 18.2's were calibrated 3 db's hot and they were not silent at all. So I turned the CS 18.2's up to a level where it felt similar to the Danley's. In doing so the CS 18's became much more alive and visceral but seemed to be more audible than the Danley. What I mean is during TF2 when Sam gets blown up by Megatron there is a strong bass wave. The Danley's are pretty quiet until he lands and then you feel the air wave move your hair and clothes, a very cool effect. The CS 18.2's at first did nothing with that scene. So when I turned it up (when he gets blasted) the CS's had audible bass then you could feel the air move across but not as strong. The Danley's were quiet then the wave hit so maybe that dynamic swing made the wave feel stronger. I kept the CS 18.2's at this level for the rest of my tests because now they were doing something. The DTS-10's and the CS 18.2's just do it differently. I had no idea what level I turned the CS 18.2's were anymore(I will get to that later) but the midbass seemed to strong but now I can feel everything the Danley's were doing, even though slightly different. Now this is only Round 1 which is no EQ and different placements. It is very easy going back and forth as all I have to do is turn the DTS-10's Ashly amps off and turn the Daytons on. My next round will be measuring them and see why there is such a difference and try to level or match the responses using the same positions. Round 3 will be moving the CS 18.2's to where the Danley's are which will be more difficult for them but should still hit reference with no problems in my room. I will start with no EQ and then measure and EQ.

Here is the question, for the CS 18.2's to have similar low end performance(pulse waves, pants flapping, back vibrating, room shaking, etc....) the CS 18.2's had to be turned up 8 db's over reference to match the Danley's at reference. Basically the Danley's calibrated at 75 db's and the CS 18.2's were at 83 db's. The good news is that the CS 18.2's played that level with no problems and the amps never even got warm. The problem is the midbass is too hot and you can hear too much low level bass which makes the pulse or bass waves seem less impressive. I need to measure and EQ the CS 18.2's. I probably just have to tame a large peak at 50hz or something. I want suggestions on how as EQ is not my strength, meaning what Q does and such.

BTW, the Krell HTS 7.1 is awesome.
Andreas you missed a bass fest tonight as both played about 10db's louder than last night. Me likey!!!

The CS 18.2's reminded me of my 8 eD subs but with much better midbass. This is just the beginning and not drawing any conclusions yet. I may even try the Daytons on my Danley's just for fun. I will take pics of the rack, daytons, and the room setup.

Anyone with any suggestions is welcome as I want to try to cover as much as possible.
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post #2 of 718 Old 11-18-2010, 08:33 AM
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Measurements please before any suggestions.
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post #3 of 718 Old 11-18-2010, 08:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

Measurements please before any suggestions.

Of course, Last night was to just get the feel of the CS 18.2's. I have much to do.
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post #4 of 718 Old 11-18-2010, 08:49 AM
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Any chance you have some pics???

I don't read for the articles...LOL!

EDIT: CRAP! Maybe I should read the entire post before asking questions. OOPS!
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post #5 of 718 Old 11-18-2010, 08:54 AM
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MK...wish I was there to play ...I mean help intergrate the subs.

You've got a couple of things going that is going to make it very difficult. I'd be taking a close look at the efficiency of the DTS-10s vs. the CS 18.2s. If they're much different, I don't see how they'll keep up with each other level wise.

The other thing that will make life difficult is going to be how the different models of subs handle different ends of the room. A good starting point is probably to run REW or similar software with each type of sub at each end of the room. That'll tell you if their placement is optomized.

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post #6 of 718 Old 11-18-2010, 08:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Don't get me started on pics because I tend to go nuts with them. I will post them since I need pics of the new front stage anyways.
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post #7 of 718 Old 11-18-2010, 11:06 AM
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Is the Danley sealed or ported?
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post #8 of 718 Old 11-18-2010, 11:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quaxtros View Post

Is the Danley sealed or ported?

It's a horn tuned to 12 hz.

Here is what I found out.

I left all the settings on the Dayton amps alone except the gain to calibrate the CS 18.2's. Well, the EQ on the Dayton was engaged and I left all the setting to the left. If you guys look at the Dayton that means I put a 14 dbs null from 16-20hz. No wonder I had to turn the CS 18.2's up that high. This makes so much sense because my room gain counteracts this and I do not need to crank it up 14 db's over the Danley's. Like I said, I will take pics tonight and run them again but with the EQ disengaged or set to 0. This is so much fun.
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post #9 of 718 Old 11-18-2010, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

It's a horn tuned to 12 hz.

Here is what I found out.

I left all the settings on the Dayton amps alone except the gain to calibrate the CS 18.2's. Well, the EQ on the Dayton was engaged and I left all the setting to the left. If you guys look at the Dayton that means I put a 14 dbs null from 16-20hz. No wonder I had to turn the CS 18.2's up that high.

I did that exact same thing when I received my 18.1. All the way left is -14db and 0db is at 2o'clock?? what's up with that Dayton?
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post #10 of 718 Old 11-18-2010, 11:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric9h View Post

I did that exact same thing when I received my 18.1. All the way left is -14db and 0db is at 2o'clock?? what's up with that Dayton?

Not Daytons fault, owner's fault. I should have read the manual. Not a problem as I know these things take time to dial in. I have a good feeling about these CS 18.2's. I already know the Midbass can pound 13 db's above reference levels without strain to the amp or drivers in my room. I love my room. Don't try that in as bigger room.
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post #11 of 718 Old 11-18-2010, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Not Daytons fault, owner's fault. I should have read the manual. Not a problem as I know these things take time to dial in. I have a good feeling about these CS 18.2's. I already know the Midbass can pound 13 db's above reference levels without strain to the amp or drivers in my room. I love my room. Don't try that in as bigger room.

You're a better man than I. I'm not as quick to mea culpa.

User error? Never!
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post #12 of 718 Old 11-18-2010, 11:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eric9h View Post

You're a better man than I. I'm not as quick to mea culpa.

User error? Never!

I have done this too many times to care about messing up, it happens, especially when you compare as many times as I do.
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post #13 of 718 Old 11-18-2010, 12:48 PM
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will you be able to place the cs subs in the exact same spot that the danley's currently reside in? i think that would be a very meaningful test as to which one has best output and mdbass slam. i never found rear subs to be very convincing in comparison to front stage ones. i don't know, maybe its just my thing.

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post #14 of 718 Old 11-18-2010, 12:55 PM
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If we're speculating, I'd speculate that the Danleys may do the deep bass better and parking them in the rear of the room would work best. Or maybe use them as a riser for the second row of seats.

Then the CS18.2s in the front with the better mid bass slam.

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post #15 of 718 Old 11-18-2010, 12:55 PM
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I want to make sure I am stying up to date on this thread. This is going to be interesting to say the least with the amount of tesing you will be doing.
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post #17 of 718 Old 11-18-2010, 01:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony A. View Post

will you be able to place the cs subs in the exact same spot that the danley's currently reside in? i think that would be a very meaningful test as to which one has best output and mdbass slam. i never found rear subs to be very convincing in comparison to front stage ones. i don't know, maybe its just my thing.

I agree and that will be my last tests. The Danley's are more powerful for sure, but the rear room gives the advantage to the CS 18.2's.
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post #18 of 718 Old 11-18-2010, 01:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

If we're speculating, I'd speculate that the Danleys may do the deep bass better and parking them in the rear of the room would work best. Or maybe use them as a riser for the second row of seats.

Then the CS18.2s in the front with the better mid bass slam.

You are right, this is speculation. The CS 18.2's don't have better midbass slam, I just had them 8 db's higher for that.
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post #19 of 718 Old 11-18-2010, 05:48 PM
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I saw the cht speakers in your webalbum

those little 10's look so cute next to the butt crack horns you have.

How does the speaker sound compared to your big jbl's?
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post #20 of 718 Old 11-18-2010, 06:18 PM - Thread Starter
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I saw the cht speakers in your webalbum

those little 10's look so cute next to the butt crack horns you have.

How does the speaker sound compared to your big jbl's?
Like little versions of them.
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post #21 of 718 Old 11-19-2010, 08:27 AM
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James-
Does the new Krell support HDMI?
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post #22 of 718 Old 11-19-2010, 08:46 AM - Thread Starter
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James-
Does the new Krell support HDMI?
No, I think HDMI is overrated except for the switching. Meaning using blurays the difference between optical or HDMI with lossless is very small if any.
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post #23 of 718 Old 11-19-2010, 08:52 AM
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The best thing about HDMI is that it is a single cable connector which replaces a whole bunch of video and audio cables. Other than that, it's not that special.
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post #24 of 718 Old 11-19-2010, 09:00 AM - Thread Starter
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The best thing about HDMI is that it is a single cable connector which replaces a whole bunch of video and audio cables. Other than that, it's not that special.

That too.
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post #25 of 718 Old 11-19-2010, 09:07 AM
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Also, with HDMI, the video signal is digital, not analog.

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post #26 of 718 Old 11-19-2010, 09:10 AM - Thread Starter
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I use HDMI for my video, just not audio. BTW, my PS3 powers up and then 2 seconds later the light turns yellow and then red which means off. It won't power up, it just keeps shutting down, any suggestions?
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post #27 of 718 Old 11-19-2010, 09:13 AM
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Optical maxes out around 1.5 Mbps, HDMI can supposedly get up to 24Mbps for audio. My ears can't distinguish a difference, but more's gotta be better, right?
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post #28 of 718 Old 11-19-2010, 09:53 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

No, I think HDMI is overrated except for the switching. Meaning using blurays the difference between optical or HDMI with lossless is very small if any.

I stated the same thing in another thread and I was blasted for it. But my opinion has not changed. I agree the difference between optical or HDMI with lossless is minute at best. I only use HDMi for my video. I never use it for audio. Too many potential quirks with little to gain for the hassle.
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post #29 of 718 Old 11-19-2010, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I use HDMI for my video, just not audio. BTW, my PS3 powers up and then 2 seconds later the light turns yellow and then red which means off. It won't power up, it just keeps shutting down, any suggestions?

You might try a reset - may change some of your settings, but if it works, it's worth it. Just continue to hold the power button (on the front pannel) until you hear the second set of beeps.
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post #30 of 718 Old 11-19-2010, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I use HDMI for my video, just not audio. BTW, my PS3 powers up and then 2 seconds later the light turns yellow and then red which means off. It won't power up, it just keeps shutting down, any suggestions?

You may have the known yellow light of death. Check out this link.
http://ps3yellowlightofdeath.net/
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