Who is the KING OF SUBWOOFERS? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 381 Old 12-12-2010, 12:48 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
ich toxisch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 87
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Who is the KING OF SUBWOOFERS?


I love shootouts and comparisons.

I love big speakers and big subwoofers. There is no room for dainty little wife pleasers here. They must be Big, Powerful, and Ominous. Only those, which cannot be hidden, may stand in this Royal Group.

Here is my the list:

SVS Ultra Series.
Ever seen one of these in a corner? They look big and scary. They sound big and scary too. Get the Box version for Aesthetics. The Cylinder version for ease of placement. Both are Phenomenal. SVS Possibly offers the highest performance to dollar ratio that can be had. I have heard a lot of smuggy snobbish subs that cost ten times the price. SVS makes them cry sad little tears of inferiority.




HSU VTF15-H.
I almost listed the ULS model but look at this thing!!!!!!! What is that big box with triangular ports on the front?. HSU is always being complemented for musicality. Big performer at an unbelievable price. DR HSU is welcome here. Maybe he can be King HSU.




JL audio Gotham.
Big power(3800 Watts). Big Weight(360lbs).Big American Dollars. $12,000 is the price of admission for this beauty. Highly refined in every respect. JL is one of the most proven manufacturers of car audio. Based on the W7 driver. It is easy to present evidence that this may be the most advanced subwoofer ever made.



Sunfire True EQ12 Signature.
When this sub arrived the jaws hit the floor. One of the most revolutionary subs ever built. 2700 Watts. It plays deep and it plays loud. The driver looks more like something out of a power plant than a woofer. Sunfire says its in a small box. Its big enough to make a wife snicker so Its big enough to be here.



Velodyne DD18/12 Signature.
Dual 3000 watt amps. One 12" and one 18" driver. Servo controlled. 450lbs. Velodyne has been doing this for a long time. Scoff at the name of Velodyne and this monster will punish your insolence.



Let us add the Elemental Designs a7-900. Twin 18" drivers in a slot ported cabinet. Probably the largest on the list now. Slot ported which is good. Port noise can be ruled out. My only worry is articulation. Is the 18 fast enough to produce fast bass? Usually but not always as drivers exceed 12 inches articulation and musicality begin to suffer. Is it true here? We shall see.


Revel Rythm subwoofer. Revel makes some great speakers. Now they make a big nasty box to go along with them. The driver is big so hopefully it stays musical. If it is then look out. It may reign.



JTC Captivator. Another suggested 18" monster.




EPIK empire twin 15 parallel push pull sub. Another fine suggestion.




CraigSUB(CS) 18.1 Series 2 Subwoofer. Sealed down firing 18" subwoofer. A few posters are on me hard to add this one. A favorite.



And here at the request of my participants, the Elemental Designs A7s-650. Another nice one.






Feel free to suggest additions. Please don’t mention little peasant subs that can hide under an end table.


Which one plays the deepest?
Which one plays the loudest?
Which one is the most articulate and musical?
Which one puts everything together in one package?
Who is the KING OF SUBWOOFERS?

RESULTS:

KING of Refinement, Musicality, and Practicality.
JL GOTHAM. JL builds this sub from the gound up. Amp, Driver, cabinet, all JL. Practical a big box that is still practical for use in a home theater. There may be few that are louder or play deeper but the JL is the gentleman of the bunch.

KING of Innovation: Seaton Terrafom (XL). Slot port vented box but yet loaded with passive radiators. The result is said to be excellent output with a magical twist for LFE. This has been one of the most praised subs since this thread started. That is why it gets Innovation King.

VALUE KING: Some are going to complain but many many comments and votes have been lodged towards the SVS PB13 Ultra. Why build when the SVS does so manyh things very well. The price is going up in the SVS world. This one still competes with a lot of subs several times its cost. What it can do versus what it costs makes it the VALUE KING here.


KING OF SPL: TBA
KING OF LFE: TBA
COMMERCIAL/PRO KING: TBA


Honorable mentions:

Disqualified. Sunfire Signature II. Reason: Not competive in any given category.
Velodyne dd18/12. Reason: Not competitive with similar product in category.
Biggest loser: Bose.
ich toxisch is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 381 Old 12-12-2010, 01:20 PM
 
diamonddelts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,055
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
I'm pretty sure there are some DIY sub designs that will crush all of the above in terms of sheer spl.
diamonddelts is offline  
post #3 of 381 Old 12-12-2010, 01:26 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
ich toxisch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 87
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddelts View Post

I'm pretty sure there are some DIY sub designs that will crush all of the above in terms of sheer spl.

Sheer SPL subs are not typically musical. They tend to be one note wonders and are not fun to listen to for long. These particular models are available for anyone to buy. They all possess a degree of musicality.
ich toxisch is offline  
post #4 of 381 Old 12-12-2010, 01:34 PM
AVS Special Member
 
shadyJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 6,274
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 435
You should take a look at the Seaton Terraform XL or the Elemental Designs A7-900. Either of those have more right to be called King of Subwoofers than the ones you listed. But as was said before, there are some DIY subs out there which could even stomp on those beasts.
shadyJ is offline  
post #5 of 381 Old 12-12-2010, 01:38 PM
Senior Member
 
larry7995's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Denver
Posts: 278
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The refrigerator sub A7-900
Attachment 193958
or the one I chose that is similar to the Gotham for a lot less money A7s-650
Attachment 193959
LL
LL
larry7995 is offline  
post #6 of 381 Old 12-12-2010, 01:39 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
Mike_WI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 2,507
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I would agree with comments...

- multiple DIY ventures including whole rooms made into subwoofers
- Seaton - Terrafrom XL or Submersives in various versions
- Chase Home Theater (CHT) CS-18.2


Mike
Mike_WI is offline  
post #7 of 381 Old 12-12-2010, 01:45 PM
Advanced Member
 
mr stroke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 570
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
mr stroke is offline  
post #8 of 381 Old 12-12-2010, 02:14 PM
 
diamonddelts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,055
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by ich toxisch View Post
Sheer SPL subs are not typically musical. They tend to be one note wonders and are not fun to listen to for long. These particular models are available for anyone to buy. They all possess a degree of musicality.
Well a small sunfire sub even being considered a sub "king" when it comes to the world of HT where the monsters reside is laughable at best. Velodyne will get the pants beat of it by diy subs for a fraction of the price. And SVS is no where near the top of the list in terms of "bang for buck" anymore.

Maybe you have not been keeping up with the latest offerings from ED, EPIK, CHT, and JTR. Let alone DIY kits such as the Tuba subs and Danley 10 which will stomp the aformentioned subs on your list mercilessly.
diamonddelts is offline  
post #9 of 381 Old 12-12-2010, 02:21 PM
Senior Member
 
Avgass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 378
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 36
I'm gonna chuck a couple more in just for fun...

Revel Ultima2 Rhythm2
http://www.revelspeakers.com/Product....aspx?prdid=35

LMS Ultra 5400 (obviously a driver only, but what a driver)
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=293-666
Avgass is offline  
post #10 of 381 Old 12-12-2010, 02:23 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Oklahoma Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Eastend, SK, Canada
Posts: 1,742
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by ich toxisch View Post
Sheer SPL subs are not typically musical.
The two terms aren't mutually exclusive
Oklahoma Wolf is offline  
post #11 of 381 Old 12-12-2010, 02:47 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
ich toxisch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 87
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avgass View Post
I'm gonna chuck a couple more in just for fun...

Revel Ultima2 Rhythm2
http://www.revelspeakers.com/Product....aspx?prdid=35

LMS Ultra 5400 (obviously a driver only, but what a driver)
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=293-666
I shall add the Revel Sub. I like it. I also like the TC driver. TC was at one time the primary primary provider for SVS. Very nice driver indeed.
ich toxisch is offline  
post #12 of 381 Old 12-12-2010, 03:16 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
ich toxisch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 87
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I am looking over the Epik, Elemental Designs, JTR, and CraigSUB. Im liking some of what I see. I will add some of them in a bit.

As for DIY kits. I could go out tomorrow and plan out a massive sub that would tromp everything in every category. I would build a multiple array of 10, 12, 15, and 18 inch subwoofers. They would all be crossed over at different frequencies. They would probably be slot ported to avert noise. They would have individual amplifiers on every driver. It would be crazy and ridiculous. I have had much success with DIY in the past. I have built everything ground up. I would say my results have exceeded some of the subs listed above. But you cant run out and buy it. A lot of people was to plug it in and listen. They dont want to build the monster. This is for the people who want to buy them and play them. I can start a DIY thread later.
ich toxisch is offline  
post #13 of 381 Old 12-12-2010, 03:17 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
ich toxisch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 87
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oklahoma Wolf View Post
The two terms aren't mutually exclusive
Agreed. But in a world of compromises they sometimes are.
ich toxisch is offline  
post #14 of 381 Old 12-12-2010, 03:18 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
ich toxisch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 87
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Mr Stroke. Holy Heck!!!!!! What is the diameter of that thing?
ich toxisch is offline  
post #15 of 381 Old 12-12-2010, 03:19 PM
pbc
AVS Special Member
 
pbc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 5,327
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 30
What the heck is the point of this thread??

 

My DIY Subs ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1233892

Quote:

J Dunlavy:.. if you stop to think about it, no loudspeaker can sound more accurate than it measures.

 

pbc is offline  
post #16 of 381 Old 12-12-2010, 03:21 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Oklahoma Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Eastend, SK, Canada
Posts: 1,742
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by ich toxisch View Post
Mr Stroke. Holy Heck!!!!!! What is the diameter of that thing?
That would be the 30" Fostex woofer. Personally, I can think of a dozen other woofers I'd rather have. Especially for a box that size.
Oklahoma Wolf is offline  
post #17 of 381 Old 12-12-2010, 03:27 PM
Advanced Member
 
jaeelarr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 574
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 34
"King" is subjective.
jaeelarr is offline  
post #18 of 381 Old 12-12-2010, 03:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
brandonnash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: murfreesboro, tn
Posts: 3,942
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Who is the KING OF SUBWOOFERS?


Which one plays the deepest?

Deepest commercially built...probably the Danley DTS-10. Lower corner of ~11 hz. This graph is with 1 watt and no eq.



Which one plays the loudest?

Easy...This bad boy...


The Matterhorn by Danley. Originally designed for military applications, but this thing could power a LARGE outdoor concert by itself.

Now going into just a home environment (it would be kinda hard to fit a matterhorn in your theater) If you're just looking again for sheer output take a look at the Danley th812. http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/tappe...MODEL=TH%20812
This thing is still very large and probably too much size for any home theater, but it does accept 16,000 watts of power and max output at 152 db in a single cabinet.

There is also their th221 which is used in large commercial theaters, but it's also massive.

Their home line with the DTS-10 is still a very loud sub when it comes to standard movies used in the home.



This is mine when I was building it. Soda can on top for size reference.
It's still a large subwoofer (5' long and 285 lbs) but will smash the ones the OP listed in output AND extension as well as articulation when a good eq is applied.

Which one is the most articulate and musical?

This can be the most controversial part since its the end user's opinion, but the Rythmik subs are very highly touted in this regard, but aren't the front runner by far in output or loud extension.

Which one puts everything together in one package?

I still pick the Danley DTS-10. Some of the other manufacturers that are going with larger subwoofers I can't give an opinion on since I've not heard them (TCA, JTR, etc.) I've listened to a lot of different subwoofers before and had a rather large GTG at my place and had commercially built, DIY, and pro audio subwoofers there. Aside from a DIY build with the LMS-5400 that was mentioned earlier, the Danley stuff that was there just smashed everything else there. The DTS-10 did start out as a DIY project kit, but the company did make it into a commercially and factory made model and the price is comparable to the subs the OP listed. The subs that are listed are very nice subwoofers in their own regard (I've heard the Gotham and it is a great sounding sub) but if we're talking about the actual king of subwoofers in an all around mode I would go with the Danley DTS-10.

Who is the KING OF SUBWOOFERS?
You got my vote.
brandonnash is offline  
post #19 of 381 Old 12-12-2010, 03:47 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tony123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Upstate, South Carolina
Posts: 4,992
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 25
King of Subwoofers, I can only define as the king of subs I've heard personally. For that, the DTS10 is far beyond my second place.

How's this for "screw the WAF" ???


The "Twinseltown" Theater
Construction Thread
tony123 is offline  
post #20 of 381 Old 12-12-2010, 04:10 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Warpdrv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 7,350
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Is this a SQ or output query ...?

If this if for a realistic build-able or buy-able I'll wager you could clik on the linky in my sig...

My XLerators will put out roughly 3-4 x a Paradigm Sub 2 or the Gotham.... Each...

With better SQ to boot.....
Warpdrv is offline  
post #21 of 381 Old 12-12-2010, 04:43 PM
AVS Special Member
 
doublewing11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Timber Country!
Posts: 3,199
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post
Is this a SQ or output query ...?

If this if for a realistic build-able or buy-able I'll wager you could clik on the linky in my sig...

My XLerators will put out roughly 3-4 x a Paradigm Sub 2 or the Gotham.... Each...

With better SQ to boot.....

I absolutely love your subs!! Bet Funky Waves could build one for less than a Velodyne DD-18+.........and of course sound better!

You have me thinking about my theater build........
doublewing11 is offline  
post #22 of 381 Old 12-12-2010, 05:02 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Warpdrv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 7,350
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post
I absolutely love your subs!! Bet Funky Waves could build one for less than a Velodyne DD-18+.........and of course sound better!

You have me thinking about my theater build........
Get on it son.... !!!!
Warpdrv is offline  
post #23 of 381 Old 12-12-2010, 05:04 PM
Senior Member
 
Avgass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 378
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 36
The A7-900 really needs to be on this list.
Avgass is offline  
post #24 of 381 Old 12-12-2010, 05:53 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
ich toxisch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 87
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avgass View Post

The A7-900 really needs to be on this list.

Ok. It is being added. A couple more are on the way too.

I agree with one of the earlier comments about the Sunfire. But remember this: When this subwoofer was introduced the Home Theater market was dominated by 150 watt class a/b low excurions high q products. We should thank Sunfire if for nothing else shaking up the market. Almost everyone got better after the True Sub arrived. But I do agree that it cannot stand against these other competitiors. I will remove it from the list as a DQ. But I still thank Sunfire for their contributions.
ich toxisch is offline  
post #25 of 381 Old 12-12-2010, 06:33 PM
AVS Special Member
 
drewTT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Anaheim Hills, CA
Posts: 1,805
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 69
wilson audio thor's hammer



dual 15s

drewTT is offline  
post #26 of 381 Old 12-12-2010, 07:02 PM
 
diamonddelts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,055
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by ich toxisch View Post

Who is the KING OF SUBWOOFERS?


[Let us add the Elemental Designs a7-900. Twin 18" drivers in a slot ported cabinet. Probably the largest on the list now. Slot ported which is good. Port noise can be ruled out. My only worry is articulation. Is the 18 fast enough to produce fast bass? Usually but not always as drivers exceed 12 inches articulation and musicality begin to suffer. Is it true here? We shall see.


.

The notion that large drivers are slow or that there is such a thing as fast bass are myths. Larger driver's actually have to move less distance to create equivalent spl to a smaller driver. So I am not sure why the large slow driver myth continues.
diamonddelts is offline  
post #27 of 381 Old 12-12-2010, 07:03 PM
 
diamonddelts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,055
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
List left out Epik Empire, Seaton Submersive, Chase Home Theater CS 18.2, 2011 JTR Captivator amongst others.
diamonddelts is offline  
post #28 of 381 Old 12-12-2010, 07:07 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mojomike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: South Florida
Posts: 6,966
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddelts View Post

The notion that large drivers are slow or that there is such a thing as fast bass are myths. Larger driver's actually have to move less distance to create equivalent spl to a smaller driver. So I am not sure why the large slow driver myth continues.

...Cuz somewhere out there are folks with big ol' 18" subs that are set up all wrong, sounding boomy as hell in their room and they're blaming it on the big driver.
mojomike is offline  
post #29 of 381 Old 12-12-2010, 07:29 PM
Member
 
a/v HD fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 156
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddelts View Post

The notion that large drivers are slow or that there is such a thing as fast bass are myths.

Glad someone said it, especially the second part.
a/v HD fan is offline  
post #30 of 381 Old 12-12-2010, 07:29 PM
Senior Member
 
Avgass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 378
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddelts View Post

The notion that large drivers are slow or that there is such a thing as fast bass are myths. Larger driver's actually have to move less distance to create equivalent spl to a smaller driver. So I am not sure why the large slow driver myth continues.

+1. Large drivers are not "slow"
Avgass is offline  
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off