Audioholics Ultimate Subwoofer Shootout Results Tomorrow - Page 27 - AVS Forum
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post #781 of 797 Old 02-17-2011, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by cacihome View Post

If you are going to use the sub at high playback levels you should use 1 port open/EQ2 setting or 2 ports open EQ/2.

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Originally Posted by Eternal Velocity View Post

sorry, but a 30hz HPF makes no sense for a sub tuned at 16hz.

Is that actually what that setting (1 port open/EQ2) does? If that's the case, you're right. It makes no sense. Might as well just open both ports.
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post #782 of 797 Old 02-17-2011, 10:11 AM
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On the last page of the VTF 15 retest it says (referring to subs):

Some of them did poorly. One threatened a lawsuit, then went away. Two realized the products were not competitive, and went away.

Does anyone know which subwoofers they were referring to?
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post #783 of 797 Old 02-17-2011, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tack View Post

Bosso speculated about what its numbers would be a few moths ago. Looks like he pegged it pretty well.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1288812

Some good info in there from some of the knowledgeable AVS veterans.
When profit is king, lots of stuff gets embellished. I mean everybody does it at one time or another, and to varying degrees. The whole bit about Ferrari and it's scandalous testing "optimization" should open some eyes about what goes on in the world of advertising, marketing, and reviews.

"The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price subsides"
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post #784 of 797 Old 02-17-2011, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Unobtainium View Post

Some good info in there from some of the knowledgeable AVS veterans.
When profit is king, lots of stuff gets embellished. I mean everybody does it at one time or another, and to varying degrees. The whole bit about Ferrari and it's scandalous testing "optimization" should open some eyes about what goes on in the world of advertising, marketing, and reviews.

It's interesting how infrequently sub makers are called on their amp specs. How often do you see anybody pulling out a driver and hooking up the amp leads to test if the amp is even close to meeting it's specs? It's almost never done.
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post #785 of 797 Old 02-17-2011, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by DrewB View Post

I would love to see some of the more senior and respected members like Bosso or Seaton opine on this numbers-gate stuff. Can't blame them for staying away but I'm sure they're kicking back, watching, and having a good laugh.

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Seriously? Dude, I'm embarrassed for you.

so you didn't know....right back at you.......

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post #786 of 797 Old 02-17-2011, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Billy p View Post

so you didn't know....right back at you.......

Feelings still a little bruised huh? It's ok, you'll get over it.
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post #787 of 797 Old 02-17-2011, 10:35 AM
 
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Feelings still a little bruised huh? It's ok, you'll get over it.
I still don't think he knows what he did wrong!
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post #788 of 797 Old 02-17-2011, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by runnin' View Post
I still don't think he knows what he did wrong!
Feeling hurt...nah, I could careless what you 2 clowns think of me....as for what I did wrong..again who cares. So, I specifically had named you when I was poking a little fun at the Hsu fanatics ....IMO you had it coming as we are reminded with each of your posts how much you dislike audioholics. Your welcome to live in your own little world, as I do in mine....

Good knowing you Gents...later...

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post #789 of 797 Old 02-17-2011, 11:22 AM
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It's a love fest over at AH. Post something negative about the review and Paul and you're toast. Talk about squashing debate....
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post #790 of 797 Old 02-17-2011, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a/v HD fan View Post
Well... we've all seen the outside.

In all seriousness, the amp is probably, what, roughly a $100-150 plate amp? To some folks, a 350w BASH amp certainly is "mediocre," when considering the spectrum of plate amps available in the marketplace.

Saying the amp is "mediocre" doesn't mean that the amp isn't well suited to the VTF-15H, and fits within the overall engineering and budgetary concerns surrounding this speaker.
I do not think the amp is "like" the 350Watt BASH amp. Does the BASH amp have > 1000Watt peak power abilities? Its not an extremely expensive amp though even the LT/1300 (> 1000Watt amp) from eD would be < $400. Of course the 2000Watt amps from FunyWaves are $700, with 4000Watt peaks (so they say, I have not tested mine).

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post #791 of 797 Old 02-17-2011, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrewB View Post
It's a love fest over at AH. Post something negative about the review and Paul and you're toast. Talk about squashing debate....
From experience, I can tell you that most engineers do not react with an open mind when you tell them you don't agree with something they did. You need to be face to face in a room with more than just two or three people before the discussion becomes constructive.

A forum discussion on a topic such as this will never go well.

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post #792 of 797 Old 02-17-2011, 12:25 PM
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The majority of Engineers I've have dealings with would rather piss away money on a bad design than admit they are wong. They seem to have a god complex, even when they're wrong they're right.
This in a Tool/part design capacity and my experience in one of the Big Three Automotive plants.


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From experience, I can tell you that most engineers do not react with an open mind when you tell them you don't agree with something they did. You need to be face to face in a room with more than just two or three people before the discussion becomes constructive.

A forum discussion on a topic such as this will never go well.
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post #793 of 797 Old 02-17-2011, 01:40 PM
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A forum discussion on a topic such as this will never go well.

Hopefully it can so the thread can remain open

Thanks

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post #794 of 797 Old 02-17-2011, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

Hopefully it can so the thread can remain open

And we will see if anything gets resolved as a result of the thread being open.

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post #795 of 797 Old 02-17-2011, 05:18 PM
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Hopefully, the FW review gets put up soon. I'm curious. Looks like he makes great stuff and a slamdunk for Canadians.

I don't lurk as much as I used to and I NEVER listen. Comes from being old and cynical.

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post #796 of 797 Old 02-17-2011, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

I do not think the amp is "like" the 350Watt BASH amp. Does the BASH amp have > 1000Watt peak power abilities?

Hey there penn - I don't quite follow. The VTF-15H's amp isn't "like" a 350w BASH amp... it is a 350w RMS BASH amp. As for whether the amp can truly supply >1000w peaks... we haven't seen any third-party tests validating the marketing/advertisement claims. The AH reviewer took a shot at explaining the amp's power potential, and if you read between the lines he seems to suggest that if it can really even hit 1400w, it must be for a nanosecond (paraphrasing, and IMHO). The amp even has a mark on it that states "430 Watts Max Power Consumption."


Quote:
Its not an extremely expensive amp though even the LT/1300 (> 1000Watt amp) from eD would be < $400. Of course the 2000Watt amps from FunyWaves are $700, with 4000Watt peaks (so they say, I have not tested mine).

Yeah, that was kind of my point though - compared to those and other higher-end plate amps (LT/1300, FW custom amps, Dayton 1000w plate, etc.), one could call the 350w BASH amp in the VTF-15H "mediocre" relative to the spectrum of plate amps available. Mediocre means "middle, moderate, average" - is that a false description for a 350w BASH plate amp?

Hsu Research isn't a charity, we shouldn't begrudge them a profit margin, and the VTF-15H retails for $879. What's the realistic ceiling for the parts' cost (driver, amp, wood, finishing supplies, grille, port plugs, labor, et. al.) - $500, if that? There's no way the amp is anywhere near $400 of that... IMHO. I'd guess it's maybe around $100-150 of the overall cost, but that's just a guess.
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post #797 of 797 Old 02-18-2011, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by spiritfox View Post

Sure, he could have taken a higher road and not put his feelings into this but I really can't hold that against him.

I think it says more about someone who can maintain the higher road, than one who cannot, no matter the situation.

The fact that his original results were basically repeated in the supplemental review would have been enough for me.

My view of their overall professionalism has been hurt because of this. Some may not care at all, and think that his rant was completely justified.
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