Audioholics Ultimate Subwoofer Shootout Results Tomorrow - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 797 Old 12-22-2010, 10:50 AM
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Hurray for GTGs (various sub owners get togethers sub shootouts). I bet its cheaper and much more fun.

You'll rarely hear anyone say, "I wish I'd gotten less Sub."

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post #92 of 797 Old 12-22-2010, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by cacihome View Post

Thanks, Ok.

I was under the impression that you were a retailer of HSU in Puerto Rico so that's why I said what I said. If you are NOT a retailer (brick & motor or otherwise) please say so. If I'm wrong I'm happy to admit it and apologize
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post #93 of 797 Old 12-22-2010, 10:52 AM
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Hurray for GTGs (various sub owners get togethers sub shootouts). I bet its cheaper and much more fun.

absolutely!
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post #94 of 797 Old 12-22-2010, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Pure-Evil View Post

I was under the impression that you were a retailer of HSU in Puerto Rico so that's why I said what I said. If you are NOT a retailer (brick & motor or otherwise) please say so. If I'm wrong I'm happy to admit it and apologize

About a year or so I was...
Just a loyal customer and a friend now.

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post #95 of 797 Old 12-22-2010, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Pure-Evil View Post

The other interesting thing about this shoot out is the inclusion of a Canadian company that I've never heard of just popping up? And it's not like their prices are low...so I'm suprised they are just appearing out of no where.

Just because you haven't heard of them doesn't mean they "just popped up".

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post #96 of 797 Old 12-22-2010, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by sholling View Post

Go for it. Go ahead and buy $10k worth of subs and ship the to someone to do scientific tests. This isn't 2 guys in a basement with a case of beer.

All the more reason to buy them. Consumer Reports buys all there products.
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Once the tests are done what do you do with that 1000lbs of subs clear across the country from you?

You sell them, just like Consumer Reports does with there cars.
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Who pays the legal bills for including a sub who's manufacturer does what it included?


Why is there NO perfect equipment, only compromises?
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post #97 of 797 Old 12-22-2010, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by SimpleTheater View Post

All the more reason to buy them. Consumer Reports buys all there products.

You sell them, just like Consumer Reports does with there cars.

Consumer Reports also has a huge subscription based audience to fund such tests. AH does not.
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post #98 of 797 Old 12-22-2010, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Pure-Evil View Post

I have to say that if a company is not big enough or confident enough to allow their product to be tested and shipped back when done at the testers expense then I'd be hesitant to buy a product from them. It almost seems like there's something to hide doesn't it? In house testing by the manufacturer is nice, but a 3rd party unbiased test is much better and more believable.

I agree, but where does a company draw the line. Home Theater wants one, so does WideScreen Review and every other magazine. Then there's web sites like A/V Revolution and so on. I believe Audioholics lost a ton of credibility when they started selling products. Why would JL Labs get a fair shake when they sell Klipsch right on the site?

Why is there NO perfect equipment, only compromises?
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post #99 of 797 Old 12-22-2010, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Pure-Evil View Post

I have to say that if a company is not big enough or confident enough to allow their product to be tested and shipped back when done at the testers expense then I'd be hesitant to buy a product from them. It almost seems like there's something to hide doesn't it? In house testing by the manufacturer is nice, but a 3rd party unbiased test is much better and more believable.

Of course, it could also mean that they're more concerned with meeting customer demand

If you're waiting weeks or months for a sub, would you want to know that one was sent out for review during that wait period, causing you to wait longer to get what you paid for?

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post #100 of 797 Old 12-22-2010, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by SimpleTheater View Post

I agree, but where does a company draw the line. Home Theater wants one, so does WideScreen Review and every other magazine. Then there's web sites like A/V Revolution and so on. I believe Audioholics lost a ton of credibility when they started selling products. Why would JL Labs get a fair shake when they sell Klipsch right on the site?

Are you saying that the companies that chose not to respond or gave reasons why they're not participating did so because because other sites are clamoring for their products and they simply don't have enough product to go around?

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post #101 of 797 Old 12-22-2010, 11:18 AM
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That is, supposedly, what some companies claimed. I.e., the old "our customers are more important to get product to first".

 

My DIY Subs ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1233892

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post #102 of 797 Old 12-22-2010, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

Are you saying that the companies that chose not to respond or gave reasons why they're not participating did so because because other sites are clamoring for their products and they simply don't have enough product to go around?

It's one explanation, but I think the latter reason I gave is most likely the reason. Why supply Brand X, when the site doing the testing sells Brand Y.

It would be like giving an Audi dealer a BMW to test and expect them to give you a fair shake.

Why is there NO perfect equipment, only compromises?
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post #103 of 797 Old 12-22-2010, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Patrick Murphy View Post

I totally agree with you and this so-called "Ultimate Shootout" is coming off more as a misfire with only 4 subs that the average consumer has probably never even heard of, with the exception of HSU who some will only remember as the "guy that had that cylindrical sub thingy", years ago.

I think you need to go back to your Lava thread.

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post #104 of 797 Old 12-22-2010, 11:53 AM
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i think you need to go back to your lava thread.

+1

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post #105 of 797 Old 12-22-2010, 12:04 PM
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I think you need to go back to your Lava thread.

That is funny. Cylindrical sub thingy, he has done so much more in the last 20 years. His designs and work has benefited many company's since, not even including his own successful HSU.

PS. My ports and driver are still in place.
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post #106 of 797 Old 12-22-2010, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by SimpleTheater View Post

It's one explanation, but I think the latter reason I gave is most likely the reason. Why supply Brand X, when the site doing the testing sells Brand Y.

It would be like giving an Audi dealer a BMW to test and expect them to give you a fair shake.

I'd have to agree with that also.
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post #107 of 797 Old 12-22-2010, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by SimpleTheater View Post

All the more reason to buy them. Consumer Reports buys all there products.

You sell them, just like Consumer Reports does with there cars.

If it's so easy and affordable then go for it. What's the hold up? Why haven't you already done it? Could it be that neither you or AH have that much money? Consumer Reports can do it because they charge a membership fee for access to their reviews.
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post #108 of 797 Old 12-22-2010, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by SimpleTheater View Post

I agree, but where does a company draw the line. Home Theater wants one, so does WideScreen Review and every other magazine. Then there's web sites like A/V Revolution and so on. I believe Audioholics lost a ton of credibility when they started selling products. Why would JL Labs get a fair shake when they sell Klipsch right on the site?

You need to do a bit more research. As has been stated before the AH website and the AH store are two different businesses with different owners. The website merely licensed the name to the store.
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post #109 of 797 Old 12-22-2010, 12:23 PM
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Come on Gene, get to posting, the natives are getting restless.
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post #110 of 797 Old 12-22-2010, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by sholling View Post

If it's so easy and affordable then go for it. What's the hold up? Why haven't you already done it? Could it be that neither you or AH have that much money? Consumer Reports can do it because they charge a membership fee for access to their reviews.

It AH's business plan to promote their site with reviews. I've got a job, they need to figure out how to do their job.

Why is there NO perfect equipment, only compromises?
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post #111 of 797 Old 12-22-2010, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by sholling View Post

You need to do a bit more research. As has been stated before the AH website and the AH store are two different businesses with different owners. The website merely licensed the name to the store.

And what's the value of that license if AH website disparages a product for sale on the AH store? It's a rhetorical question, but to think that differences in ownership creates an unbiased testing environment would be naive.

Why is there NO perfect equipment, only compromises?
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post #112 of 797 Old 12-22-2010, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by SimpleTheater View Post

And what's the value of that license if AH website disparages a product for sale on the AH store? It's a rhetorical question, but to think that differences in ownership creates an unbiased testing environment would be naive.

Now that would be interesting..for them to review the products that they sell and give one a poor review. I know it would never happen, but it would be interesting. They'd probably have to sue themselves. LOL
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post #113 of 797 Old 12-22-2010, 12:42 PM
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Come on Gene, get to posting, the natives are getting restless.

It really won't much matter what Gene or anyone else says. There has been so much BS lately in the AV community that no one believes anyone anymore, and maybe that's the way it should be. there have been too many back room deals, too many lies, too many pay offs etc for any of us to believe there is an honest fair and unbiased reviewer left out there other than end users.

Everyone who reviews products or touts this or that product seems to be getting their back scratched by someone somehow....

I really enjoy reading reviews, but....you have to learn to read between the lines sometimes. I'm not implying that Audioholics reviews are anything short of 100% honest, but....the fact that they have a retail side (which I didn't know) is very interesting.
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post #114 of 797 Old 12-22-2010, 12:52 PM
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That is, supposedly, what some companies claimed. I.e., the old "our customers are more important to get product to first".

I'm sure getting products to customers is important but that just sounds like BS. I would have to question the capabilities and longevity of a company that talks like it's living from paycheck to paycheck.

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It's one explanation, but I think the latter reason I gave is most likely the reason. Why supply Brand X, when the site doing the testing sells Brand Y.

It would be like giving an Audi dealer a BMW to test and expect them to give you a fair shake.

If the protocol has been spelled out as to what tests are going to be peformed and every sub is evaluated by those criteria, it's irrelevant. Same goes for evaluating a product's strengths and weaknesses when it comes to construction, fit and finish. Photographs can accompany these sorts of comments to substantiate the assessment. Commenting on the subjective sound quality is of course open to debate but that holds true regardless of where or who does the evaluating. I've found that AH hasn't always been effusive in its praise for products it also sells through their retail channel. As for the costs that a vendor has to incur in paying the s/h charges back and forth, that's just written off. I kind of suspect that some, but not all, vendors don't want their subs evaluated because they just might get called out on some of the claims they've made and really aren't that confident in the performance or construction of their product.

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post #115 of 797 Old 12-22-2010, 12:56 PM
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And what's the value of that license if AH website disparages a product for sale on the AH store?

I don't think Gene is too concerned with that as evident in some of his reviews of the E-store's product.
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post #116 of 797 Old 12-22-2010, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Pure-Evil View Post

I'm not implying that Audioholics reviews are anything short of 100% honest, but....the fact that they have a retail side (which I didn't know) is very interesting.

Audioholics has recommended systems.

They have three systems specifically written for the Audioholics store. Not sure why any website would do this if they are "completely separate".
Audioholics Store $750 Audio System
Audioholics Store $1000 Audio System
Audioholics Store $2500 Audio System

Now there non-Audioholics Store rec'd systems:
$1,000 Bare Bones system
Every product available on the AH Store.

$3,500 System
Every product available on the AH Store.

$7,500 System
Only the Yamaha A/V receiver & Samsung TV on the AH Store.

12,000 System
Every product, except for Epson projector, available on the AH Store.

They go on to do a $25k and a $75k system that goes with equipment mostly beyond what they sell.

This is just my observation, not an opinion. Do with the information what you please.

Why is there NO perfect equipment, only compromises?
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post #117 of 797 Old 12-22-2010, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

If the protocol has been spelled out as to what tests are going to be peformed and every sub is evaluated by those criteria, it's irrelevant. Same goes for evaluating a product's strengths and weaknesses when it comes to construction, fit and finish. Photographs can accompany these sorts of comments to substantiate the assessment. Commenting on the subjective sound quality is of course open to debate but that holds true regardless of where or who does the evaluating. I've found that AH hasn't always been effusive in its praise for products it also sells through their retail channel. As for the costs that a vendor has to incur in paying the s/h charges back and forth, that's just written off. I kind of suspect that some, but not all, vendors don't want their subs evaluated because they just might get called out on some of the claims they've made and really aren't that confident in the performance or construction of their product.

I agree, for the most part. But that fine line between what is "best" and "best value" are very subjective. One sub could beat another, but it might cost $500 more. If the Klipsch sub cost more than Brand X the final result might be "Clearly the Klipsch is the Ultimate Sub". If it was reversed the final result might be "Brand X sub won all the performance categories, but for the $500 you could pocket by getting the Klipsch sub, you'd be better off using that to buy [fill in blank]."

Then we get into the more ambiguous areas like does it matter if one sub can go to 5 hz while another can only go to 10 hz, but the 10 hz sub just sounded tighter and more refined.

IMO, there are too many variables for a fair review when you factor in the web site is selling some of the brands in the test. Considering they rec'd Yamaha receivers for nearly all their rec'd systems, I find it hard to believe the separation between the store and the reviews. But I'm skeptical by nature.

--SimpleTheater

PS: Chu - if Schifter was holding this event and published the protocol, I'd imagine you'd want a representative from each company present to observe the results.

Why is there NO perfect equipment, only compromises?
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post #118 of 797 Old 12-22-2010, 01:16 PM
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It's too bad that none of the subs in this test are sold in the E-store.
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post #119 of 797 Old 12-22-2010, 01:21 PM
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It's too bad that none of the subs in this test are sold in the E-store.


Why is there NO perfect equipment, only compromises?
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post #120 of 797 Old 12-22-2010, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Pure-Evil View Post

I'm not implying that Audioholics reviews are anything short of 100% honest, but....the fact that they have a retail side (which I didn't know) is very interesting.

I like how you say you are not implying audioholics reviews are dishonest but then in the very same sentence you imply audioholics reviews are dishonest. Perhaps you should look up the word "imply".
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