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post #181 of 797 Old 12-24-2010, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by penngray View Post

We do not have to agree with Bosso all the time but he is very far from Clueless.

Bossobass just made a reference that quality and china is as imaginary as Santa Claus. Every country has quality control issues within its manufacturing base with some products (otherwise Saturn cars would still be around). To infer everything coming out of china is crap is flat out wrong.
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Originally Posted by the dictionary View Post

totally uninformed about what is going on; not having even a clue from which to infer what is occurring

Meanwhile there's not a single one of us on these forums that doesn't have a product made in China that isn't serving its intended purpose satisfactorily. Maybe it's a ketchup bottle. Maybe its an outlet in your house. I'd even wager that some of the components in Bossobass' precious Raven (assuming it really exists) or its amp has some "Made in China" components.

Clueless. Bossobass was totally uninformed about the subject.

Because Bossobass has helped a handful of DIY'ers doesn't give him blanket authority to make false statements and have us accept it. His statement was once again neither accurate nor clever.
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post #182 of 797 Old 12-24-2010, 08:53 AM
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Great rant on audioholics

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums...ad.php?t=70584

Post # 10

OK, so I dug around a bit, but I am sure I still don't know the full story.

Axiom didn't take part - didn't agree with testing methodology and thought there might be some bias or something. No big loss. I can plainly HEAR the cabinet colouration in their EP600 and EP800 subs. Would it kill them to put some bracing in those giant cabinets?

Elemental Designs didn't have any product ready to submit. Not surprising. Everything they sell has to come over in a big container from China, so even they don't know when stuff is going to be in stock.

Epik didn't have a product ready. Really not surprised. Epik never has anything ready for anybody, which is why there are no professional reviews of any of their products. It's also why they keep switching models - never want to keep anything around too long since they are all talk and boom with no refinement.

Earthquake went nuts and wanted to sue Audioholics. Whatever. Are they gonna sue every customer who writes a user review too? Probably - unless it's a glowing, praise-fest.

RBH had an amp problem. Weird. Audioholics is almost single-handedly responsible for anyone knowing their name at all so you'd think they could get a working amp over in time...

Salk had some sort of design issue. I guess one guy building everything by hand in his garage can only do so much!

Paradigm and Klipsch didn't bother to take part. Their top-line subs are too expensive and people are gonna buy them based on brand, not any sort of performance measurement anyway.

I'll be honest, I've had nothing but headaches in dealing with subwoofers. Seems as though Audioholics had nothing but troubles too! What is it with subwoofer manufacturers? It's like they're all hiding some deep dark secret. Maybe the fact that they really don't know what the hell they are doing most of the time and just stick giant drivers into giant boxes with giant amps and set whatever price they think they can sell the damn thing at?

All I know is, after everything is said and done, I just wind up coming back to HSU every time. Want to review an HSU sub? Done. No problem.

Want to talk to Dr. Hsu about design and compromises and engineering and theory? Bam! He's right there and the man KNOWS his stuff.

Or how about just listening and realizing that pretty much every other subwoofer lacks the delineation provided by HSU's subs.

What can I knock about HSU? You have to go to their biggest and most expensive models if you want to truly troll the depths of 20Hz and below and do so at high output levels.

Is that a big deal? Not when you notice that HSU's most expensive subwoofers are still WAY cheaper than a lot of competing models.

SVS is fine, most of the time, too. I just hate the fact that you can pretty much never actually BUY one of their subs. They are constantly on back order. I've known people who've had to wait a full year for their SVS sub to arrive!

I'm just sick of all the hype and games that subwoofer manufacturers play. It's a constant screw-job of diverting customers' attention so that they won't notice that they are paying and waiting for performance that will likely never actually arrive.

Personally, I'm done with the schenanigans. I just deal with HSU and it's one less thing to worry about in my life

Maybe this world is another planet's hell.
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post #183 of 797 Old 12-24-2010, 09:05 AM
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You know, pretty much every time I read one of your posts I crack up. Thank you.

 

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post #184 of 797 Old 12-24-2010, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by JackOften View Post

Bossobass just made a reference that quality and china is as imaginary as Santa Claus. Every country has quality control issues within its manufacturing base with some products (otherwise Saturn cars would still be around). To infer everything coming out of china is crap is flat out wrong.

When did the thread change to talking about cars? Where did I infer 'everything coming out of China is crap'?

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Meanwhile there's not a single one of us on these forums that doesn't have a product made in China that isn't serving its intended purpose satisfactorily. Maybe it's a ketchup bottle. Maybe its an outlet in your house. I'd even wager that some of the components in Bossobass' precious Raven (assuming it really exists) or its amp has some "Made in China" components.

You'd lose the wager. But, if you had anything to add but your personal agenda, you'd know that it's an irrelevant point.

Ketchup is made by Heinz. No one cares who else makes a version of it. Way to stretch your thought until you can see through it.

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Clueless. Bossobass was totally uninformed about the subject.

There are 4 subs being looked at in this threads topic. That IS the subject. Three of the boxes are globally sourced. Please compare them in detail to Funk's box and school us. Should be a hoot.

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Because Bossobass has helped a handful of DIY'ers doesn't give him blanket authority to make false statements and have us accept it. His statement was once again neither accurate nor clever.

If you call thousands a handful, cool beans. Of course, your year and a half and 170 posts make my admittedly small contributions pale by comparison.

Curtis and I go waaaaay back. That's all you need to know about my comment to HIM. If our inside joke made you all weepy and angry, I most certainly apologize, but suggest you get a clue before you preach clueless.

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post #185 of 797 Old 12-24-2010, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by bossobass View Post

Curtis and I go waaaaay back. That's all you need to know about my comment to HIM. If our inside joke made you all weepy and angry, I most certainly apologize, but suggest you get a clue before you preach clueless.

Sorry for only jumping back in now....there has been some other good entertainment here this past night that I have been following or catching up on.

Lighten up on Bosso...we do indeed go way back. His knowledge and experience with subwoofers is not surpassed by many here. He has the utmost respect for well designed/engineered subs no matter where they are sourced, but because they are sourced differently, you should expect differences in build quality.

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post #186 of 797 Old 12-24-2010, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cvictorg View Post

Great rant on audioholics

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums...ad.php?t=70584

Post # 10

OK, so I dug around a bit, but I am sure I still don't know the full story.

Axiom didn't take part - didn't agree with testing methodology and thought there might be some bias or something. No big loss. I can plainly HEAR the cabinet colouration in their EP600 and EP800 subs. Would it kill them to put some bracing in those giant cabinets?

Elemental Designs didn't have any product ready to submit. Not surprising. Everything they sell has to come over in a big container from China, so even they don't know when stuff is going to be in stock.

Epik didn't have a product ready. Really not surprised. Epik never has anything ready for anybody, which is why there are no professional reviews of any of their products. It's also why they keep switching models - never want to keep anything around too long since they are all talk and boom with no refinement.

Earthquake went nuts and wanted to sue Audioholics. Whatever. Are they gonna sue every customer who writes a user review too? Probably - unless it's a glowing, praise-fest.

RBH had an amp problem. Weird. Audioholics is almost single-handedly responsible for anyone knowing their name at all so you'd think they could get a working amp over in time...

Salk had some sort of design issue. I guess one guy building everything by hand in his garage can only do so much!

Paradigm and Klipsch didn't bother to take part. Their top-line subs are too expensive and people are gonna buy them based on brand, not any sort of performance measurement anyway.

I'll be honest, I've had nothing but headaches in dealing with subwoofers. Seems as though Audioholics had nothing but troubles too! What is it with subwoofer manufacturers? It's like they're all hiding some deep dark secret. Maybe the fact that they really don't know what the hell they are doing most of the time and just stick giant drivers into giant boxes with giant amps and set whatever price they think they can sell the damn thing at?

All I know is, after everything is said and done, I just wind up coming back to HSU every time. Want to review an HSU sub? Done. No problem.

Want to talk to Dr. Hsu about design and compromises and engineering and theory? Bam! He's right there and the man KNOWS his stuff.

Or how about just listening and realizing that pretty much every other subwoofer lacks the delineation provided by HSU's subs.

What can I knock about HSU? You have to go to their biggest and most expensive models if you want to truly troll the depths of 20Hz and below and do so at high output levels.

Is that a big deal? Not when you notice that HSU's most expensive subwoofers are still WAY cheaper than a lot of competing models.

SVS is fine, most of the time, too. I just hate the fact that you can pretty much never actually BUY one of their subs. They are constantly on back order. I've known people who've had to wait a full year for their SVS sub to arrive!

I'm just sick of all the hype and games that subwoofer manufacturers play. It's a constant screw-job of diverting customers' attention so that they won't notice that they are paying and waiting for performance that will likely never actually arrive.

Personally, I'm done with the schenanigans. I just deal with HSU and it's one less thing to worry about in my life

Great post. I just heard a friends HSU VTF 15 and I was just fetal. NOT just at the depth or output...forget that... but from the beauty, smoothness and color of tone. I myself have a HSU STF-1 in my bedroom, and it is probably my favorite piece of equipment that i own. And their customer service. The best of the best.
I just dont know why anybody would get anything other than HSU.
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post #187 of 797 Old 12-24-2010, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cvictorg View Post

Great rant on audioholics

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums...ad.php?t=70584

Salk had some sort of design issue. I guess one guy building everything by hand in his garage can only do so much!

I have been to Jim Salk's operation and it is hardly him working out of garage. He has a fairly large operation in an industrial section of Detroit and has several employees....so before people post, they might get your facts straight or people will not take them very seriously. As far as the sub goes, I have no idea what the problem is although I did have one of his subs that initiallly had a problem but was corrected and no problems after that.
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post #188 of 797 Old 12-24-2010, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by frostylou View Post

Great post. I just heard a friends HSU VTF 15 and I was just fetal. NOT just at the depth or output...forget that... but from the beauty, smoothness and color of tone. I myself have a HSU STF-1 in my bedroom, and it is probably my favorite piece of equipment that i own. And their customer service. The best of the best.
I just dont know why anybody would get anything other than HSU.

I honestly can't comprehend what "fetal" means in your post. My first thought was that you meant "fatal", but that would be unusual also. Can you explain what you meant in words.
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post #189 of 797 Old 12-24-2010, 02:40 PM
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I honestly can't comprehend what "fetal" means in your post. My first thought was that you meant "fatal", but that would be unusual also. Can you explain what you meant in words.

Amazing
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post #190 of 797 Old 12-24-2010, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Randy Bessinger View Post

I have been to Jim Salk's operation and it is hardly him working out of garage. He has a fairly large operation in an industrial section of Detroit and has several employees....so before people post, they might get your facts straight or people will not take them very seriously. As far as the sub goes, I have no idea what the problem is although I did have one of his subs that initiallly had a problem but was corrected and no problems after that.

Your comment on Salk Sound mirrors the impression I've gathered from the thread here, the one at Audiocircle, and information from Jim's website. It's not a "garage-shop-one-man-band" operation.

The comment on Elemental Designs struck me as odd as well... they're quite proud of designing, cutting, assembling, building, etc., everything in Iowa. Sure, drivers and/or amps might be made overseas, but from what I gather everything else is "homegrown." Plus, they've recently been keeping certain popular models in-stock and ready to ship. Hard to reconcile that with "everything gets shipped by container from China" - go figure.

Overall, that post smacks of someone who knows enough to be dangerous but doesn't really know what they're talking about, other than the positive comments for Hsu (which, from what I understand, is a quite reputable company to do business with).
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post #191 of 797 Old 12-24-2010, 03:23 PM
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I didn't realize Salk was in Detroit. I may pay them a visit yo check it out.
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post #192 of 797 Old 12-24-2010, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by frostylou View Post

I just dont know why anybody would get anything other than HSU.

Because Hsu is not the only game in town. There are other sub companies with excellent products and customer service also.
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post #193 of 797 Old 12-24-2010, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by cschang View Post

Sorry for only jumping back in now....there has been some other good entertainment here this past night that I have been following or catching up on.

Lighten up on Bosso...we do indeed go way back. His knowledge and experience with subwoofers is not surpassed by many here. He has the utmost respect for well designed/engineered subs no matter where they are sourced, but because they are sourced differently, you should expect differences in build quality.

Pretty much, Thanks for the post Curtis!!

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post #194 of 797 Old 12-24-2010, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by a/v HD fan View Post

Your comment on Salk Sound mirrors the impression I've gathered from the thread here, the one at Audiocircle, and information from Jim's website. It's not a "garage-shop-one-man-band" operation.

The comment on Elemental Designs struck me as odd as well... they're quite proud of designing, cutting, assembling, building, etc., everything in Iowa. Sure, drivers and/or amps might be made overseas, but from what I gather everything else is "homegrown." Plus, they've recently been keeping certain popular models in-stock and ready to ship. Hard to reconcile that with "everything gets shipped by container from China" - go figure.

Overall, that post smacks of someone who knows enough to be dangerous but doesn't really know what they're talking about, other than the positive comments for Hsu (which, from what I understand, is a quite reputable company to do business with).

Honestly we shouldn't really care about audioholics that much, I never considered it the last word in audio. I never considered the forum to be very well educated at all.

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post #195 of 797 Old 12-24-2010, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by JackOften View Post

Meanwhile there's not a single one of us on these forums that doesn't have a product made in China that isn't serving its intended purpose satisfactorily. Maybe it's a ketchup bottle. Maybe its an outlet in your house. I'd even wager that some of the components in Bossobass' precious Raven (assuming it really exists) or its amp has some "Made in China" components.

.

I buy many of my drivers from John Janowitz @ AEspeakers.com. Maybe some parts have to come from elsewhere but he hand builds his drivers in the USA.

I think you took the whole discussion/comment out of context. Yes some part is bound to come from China we really have limited choice on many products.

I will still state that Bosso knows more about sub design then 99.9% of all others on any forum.

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post #196 of 797 Old 12-24-2010, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by frostylou View Post

Great post. I just heard a friends HSU VTF 15 and I was just fetal. NOT just at the depth or output...forget that... but from the beauty, smoothness and color of tone. I myself have a HSU STF-1 in my bedroom, and it is probably my favorite piece of equipment that i own. And their customer service. The best of the best.
I just dont know why anybody would get anything other than HSU.

Its still a flawed ported sub

Some people want what is beyond those inherent flaws that comes with any ported design. If Im doing ported in the future I would upgrade to PR designs.

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post #197 of 797 Old 12-24-2010, 06:14 PM
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Honestly we shouldn't really care about audioholics that much, I never considered it the last word in audio. I never considered the forum to be very well educated at all.

I've never been on their forum, but I've found some of the main site articles (blogs?) interesting. Certainly not the "last word in audio" - but then again, I know of nowhere that is (except, perhaps, AVS's forum that is ).
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post #198 of 797 Old 12-24-2010, 06:17 PM
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The articles have been better then the forum discussions.

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post #199 of 797 Old 12-24-2010, 06:36 PM
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Hey, leave our forum discussions out of this!

Seriously, we have some very knowledgeable folks there. It's not a DIY mecca like Penn would like but it's nonetheless informative in other areas.
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post #200 of 797 Old 12-24-2010, 06:40 PM
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Matt, good point!

It is not "open-minded" to reject knowledge - Bob Lee
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I honestly can't comprehend what "fetal" means in your post. My first thought was that you meant "fatal", but that would be unusual also. Can you explain what you meant in words.

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post #202 of 797 Old 12-25-2010, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by a/v HD fan View Post

Your comment on Salk Sound mirrors the impression I've gathered from the thread here, the one at Audiocircle, and information from Jim's website. It's not a "garage-shop-one-man-band" operation.

The comment on Elemental Designs struck me as odd as well... they're quite proud of designing, cutting, assembling, building, etc., everything in Iowa. Sure, drivers and/or amps might be made overseas, but from what I gather everything else is "homegrown." Plus, they've recently been keeping certain popular models in-stock and ready to ship. Hard to reconcile that with "everything gets shipped by container from China" - go figure.

Overall, that post smacks of someone who knows enough to be dangerous but doesn't really know what they're talking about, other than the positive comments for Hsu (which, from what I understand, is a quite reputable company to do business with).

He thinks he is funny, I just think he is long winded.
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post #203 of 797 Old 12-25-2010, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by frostylou View Post

Great post. I just heard a friends HSU VTF 15 and I was just fetal. NOT just at the depth or output...forget that... but from the beauty, smoothness and color of tone. I myself have a HSU STF-1 in my bedroom, and it is probably my favorite piece of equipment that i own. And their customer service. The best of the best.
I just dont know why anybody would get anything other than HSU.

Hsu makes great subs and I have had some. But so do others and some of the FYI subs are excellent as well. Making fun of everyone but HSU sort of smells of a newbie.
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post #204 of 797 Old 12-25-2010, 12:00 PM
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Not a good comparison at all. The Rythmik is vastly superior.

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Oh really? care to explain and back that statement up with some facts please? I'm all ears...

Exactly my point. You post some pictures and specs and say they are the same. Your original statement has nothing to back it up. What kind of amp does each have? Support? Drivers? Servo technology does what for the Rythmik sound vs. others?

If you haven't listened to a Rythmik sub, you have no clue what you are talking about. I have 4 of them. I have an SVS, DTS-10, LMS 5400 in sealed and PR'd configuration, had MFW-15's, Velodynes, etc. The Rythmiks remain on top in sound quality and flatness to the lowest Hz in my room, and they are on top in customer support. Would I pay more for a Rythmik than another sub that "looks the same" on paper? Without hesitation.
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post #205 of 797 Old 12-25-2010, 12:19 PM
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Honestly we shouldn't really care about audioholics that much, I never considered it the last word in audio. I never considered the forum to be very well educated at all.

You probably wouldn't know, but at least double digit Audioholic members have now posted in this very thread. I guess we must be the stoopider AVSers of the bunch.

 

 

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post #206 of 797 Old 12-25-2010, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by cvictorg View Post

Elemental Designs didn't have any product ready to submit. Not surprising. Everything they sell has to come over in a big container from China, so even they don't know when stuff is going to be in stock.

FYI, eD subs are made in Iowa, they don't come over in containers from China.
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post #207 of 797 Old 12-25-2010, 12:37 PM
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You probably wouldn't know, but at least double digit Audioholic members have now posted in this very thread. I guess we must be the stoopider AVSers of the bunch.

yeah, that has been pointed out a couple of times

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post #208 of 797 Old 12-25-2010, 01:05 PM
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yeah, that has been pointed out a couple of times

Eh, after 208 posts in this thread, no, not even once.

 

 

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post #209 of 797 Old 12-25-2010, 01:13 PM
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Eh, after 208 posts in this thread, no, not even once.

Matt posted it (post #199) and also PM.

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post #210 of 797 Old 12-25-2010, 01:23 PM
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Matt posted it (post #199) and also PM.

I was not privy to the PM, and post #199 did not at all imply the data point I offered, as an observation I made to your disparaging reply. In fact the use of the pronoun "our" is attributed to Audioholic members (I assume many here know that Matt is a moderator there), not specifically to AVSers, and most definitely not double digit AVSers.

 

 

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