Audioholics Ultimate Subwoofer Shootout Results Tomorrow - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 797 Old 12-20-2010, 03:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Audioholics Ultimate Subwoofer Shootout Reviews

Review Links
HSU VTF-15H http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/s...oofers/vtf-15h
S&V review http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/aud...-15h-subwoofer

Rythmik FV15HP http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/s...rythmik-fv15hp

Funkywaves FW12.X SA1000 http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/s...oofers/fw-12.x

SVS PB12-Plus http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/s...fers/pb12-plus

I'm very much looking forward to the results! Just thought I'd post this here so that everyone was aware of it.
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post #2 of 797 Old 12-20-2010, 04:06 PM
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my hsu vtf 15h arrives tomorrow. was trying to hold out for this review, but I got antsy.
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post #3 of 797 Old 12-20-2010, 04:08 PM
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Looking forward to the results. Looks like they are ahead of schedule. I know at a point they said we would be lucky if it happened in December.
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post #4 of 797 Old 12-20-2010, 04:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skooba View Post
my hsu vtf 15h arrives tomorrow. was trying to hold out for this review, but I got antsy.
Congrats to you! I love my hsu vtf 15h. A bad review wouldn't change that, but a great pro review would help to confirm my feelings.
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post #5 of 797 Old 12-21-2010, 04:10 AM
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I guess just the measuring criteria is being posted today, then each subwoofer review after the holidays, then a final wrap up..ala shootout. Sounds like it might be another week or so for listening results.
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post #6 of 797 Old 12-21-2010, 04:17 AM
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I would expect 2 or more weeks. They said after the holidays, plural, that means they will be waiting till after the new year to post actual reviews.

Klipsch RF-62 L/R, RC-62 C, Energy C-100 SL/SR, HSU VTF-15H, Marantz SR5003.

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post #7 of 797 Old 12-21-2010, 05:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmpharmacist View Post
According to a post by Gene their forum, the Audioholics Ultimate Subwoofer Shootout "Primer" will be online tomorrow.

The subs being tested are:
HSU VTF-15H
Rythmik FV15HP
Funkywaves FW12.X SA1000
SVS PB12-Plus

I'm very much looking forward to the results! Just thought I'd post this here so that everyone was aware of it.
good grief!!! how are ANY of those subwoofers listed consider "ultimate" in ANY way??? Give me a break. There are so many other subs available that would destroy those listed and make them cry in their soup. Here's a more likely list of "ultimate" subwoofers

CS 18.2
eD A7-450 & up
Seaton subs
Epik subs
etc....seriously...what a joke. They should call this the ultimate basic subwoofer shootout. I'm not saying the subs listed are not good, but...their price points are all higher than they should be, their performance is definitely much less than can be had for the same money from other competitors.

Just as an example, compare the Rythmic 15" sub listed to the Elemental Designs A5-350. Similar specs, but the eD is $400.00 cheaper and that INCLUDES shipping. Similar specs, so obviously a much better deal

eD A5-350 $800.00 including shipping

Driver Size 15"
Driver Quantity 1
Driver Excursion 23mm
Total Driver Linear Displacement 3331.04cm³
Room Tuning 20Hz
Frequency Response (+/-3dB) 18-100Hz
Amplifier RMS Power 500W
Cabinet Type Vented
Shipping Weight 108 lbs
Internal Size 4.70ft³
External Size 6.37ft³
Width 19.00"
Height 25.00"
Depth 24.75"
Vent Size 2 x 4"
Amplifier Voltage 115
Included Crossover Yes
Crossover Frequencies 35-180Hz
Phase Switch Yes
Line Level Input Yes
RCA Level Input Yes
Level Control


Rythmic FV15HP $1199.99 PLUS shipping

Driver DS1510 15" high excursion with custom sensing coil
Driver materials Black anodized aluminum with rubber surround
Cast aluminum basket
Copper flux modulation shorting rings
Amplifier 600 RMS class H patented servo controlled
Dimensions 18"(W) x 24" (H )x 24"(D) - (26" D with grille and heatsink)
Shipping Weight 120 lbs
Frequency Response 14 - 90 Hz (-2 dB @ 14 Hz)
Multi-tune 18hz (2 port) and 12hz (1 port)
Crossover slope Selectable 12 or 24 dB / octave (PEQ)
Crossover range (Low pass) 25 - 100 Hz
Rumble Filter (High pass ) 18 Hz 18 dB / octave for two port tuning
Phase adjustment 0 - 180 degrees continuously variable
Bass damping factor settings high (Q=0.5), med (Q=0.7), and low (Q=1.1)
Finishes Available in honey oak vinyl or black oak vinyl
Warranty 5 years warranty on driver and 2 years on electronics
30 day satisfaction guarantee
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post #8 of 797 Old 12-21-2010, 06:55 AM
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Why is the SVS PB12 on the list at all?
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post #9 of 797 Old 12-21-2010, 06:57 AM
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I can see how the tittle can be misleading but thats no biggie. I'd say 70% of the new sub buyers will benefit from the results of this shootout. Sucks (for me atleast) that the entire details will be revealed in parts but AVH did all the hard work- putting money and time into this so they can milk it all they want.
GTG's can offer faster but similair benefits to the HT Sub community. If there is ever one in South Florida, I'd participate.

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post #10 of 797 Old 12-21-2010, 07:00 AM
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Sorry to disagree, but the HSU is an incredible value at $880...Don't know about the others...

I have had ED subs, and HSU subs.

Have you had any ED and the VTF-15H in question?

Cacimar Hernandez
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post #11 of 797 Old 12-21-2010, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cacihome View Post

Sorry to disagree, but the HSU is an incredible value at $880...Don't know about the others...

I have had ED subs, and HSU subs.

Have you had any ED and the VTF-15H in question?

If you are asking me, i've had tons of subs from eD, HSU, SVS, Def Tech, Paradigm, AV123, JBL etc etc.
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post #12 of 797 Old 12-21-2010, 07:07 AM
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^^^Yep. But how do you know that the ED A5-350 is a better sub than the HSU...
Do you have the VTF-15H?

Cacimar Hernandez
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post #13 of 797 Old 12-21-2010, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hksvr4 View Post

Why is the SVS PB12 on the list at all?

Wait and see. I'll bet it will show quite well among the competition it's in with. It's got a killer driver, a strong amp, and a very well designed box and porting system (think PB13 lite). Since the PB13 has been so extensively tested in the past, SVS suggested going with the PB12 Plus. It would be a mistake to underestimate it.
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post #14 of 797 Old 12-21-2010, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Pure-Evil View Post

If you are asking me, i've had tons of subs from eD, HSU, SVS, Def Tech, Paradigm, AV123, JBL etc etc.

It's funny, cause I had the A7s-450, which is apparently a better sub than the A5-350, and the VTF-15H is way better.

Cacimar Hernandez
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post #15 of 797 Old 12-21-2010, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pure-Evil View Post

Just as an example, compare the Rythmic 15" sub listed to the Elemental Designs A5-350. Similar specs, but the eD is $400.00 cheaper and that INCLUDES shipping. Similar specs, so obviously a much better deal

Not a good comparison at all. The Rythmik is vastly superior.
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post #16 of 797 Old 12-21-2010, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Fatawan View Post

Not a good comparison at all. The Rythmik is vastly superior.

Oh really? care to explain and back that statement up with some facts please? I'm all ears...
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post #17 of 797 Old 12-21-2010, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hksvr4 View Post

Why is the SVS PB12 on the list at all?

Well, they did pick it for product of the year, that must say something.
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post #18 of 797 Old 12-21-2010, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cacihome View Post

It's funny, cause I had the A7s-450, which is apparently a better sub than the A5-350, and the VTF-15H is way better.

Well..anything is possible, but I'd sure like to see some graphs and numbers to back up that claim. Care to offer any proof? You dont' have to do the testing yourself, just post the proof you seem to have.

I would expect the HSU to be much boomier since it's ported, but have a lot less slam and total clean output of the A7S 450 since you are comparing completely different beasts here.
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post #19 of 797 Old 12-21-2010, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pure-Evil View Post

Well..anything is possible, but I'd sure like to see some graphs and numbers to back up that claim. Care to offer any proof? You dont' have to do the testing yourself, just post the proof you seem to have.

I would expect the HSU to be much boomier since it's ported, but have a lot less slam and total clean output of the A7S 450 since you are comparing completely different beasts here.

Well, to be fair I am sure the HSU is great but Cacihome needs to tell people he is a HSU dealer or was which can make his opinions biased.
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post #20 of 797 Old 12-21-2010, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by mktheater View Post

well, to be fair i am sure the hsu is great but cacihome needs to tell people he is a hsu dealer or was which can make his opinions biased.

ouch!!!

and just for the record I loved my HSU sub and have posted that several times. It was a great sub, and I'm sure the new 15" is good too. I never said anything negative about HSU or their products. In fact, I directly compared the eD and the Rythmic as their specs are almost identical but price is 400-500 apart

and just for the record. I am NOT a dealer nor am I associated with any audio company in ANY way. I pay for my products just like you do...and I review them honestly without bias of any kind.
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post #21 of 797 Old 12-21-2010, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Well, to be fair I am sure the HSU is great but Cacihome needs to tell people he is a HSU dealer or was which can make his opinions biased.

Wow! That is something I never actually knew

People should really indicate their connections with any product they aggressively support daily online. Definitely a conflict of interest to me for people to hide that type of info.

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post #22 of 797 Old 12-21-2010, 07:52 AM
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Well. These are the specs on the HSU 15" and I have to say I find it VERY hard to believe that a 350watt rms amp and a 15" driver could come anywhere near out performing an 18" driver with 1300watts of power behind it. And btw...we are comparing a sealed to ported sub so I know that makes a big difference. You'd really have to compare it to an 18" ported eD with 1300watts amp. or get eD to make you an A3-550 15" ported WITH a 1300 watt amp.


also, you need to note that the HSU sub is $879.99 PLUS $139.99 shipping. So it's really $1019.98

Product At a Glance
Amplifier Power 1400 W short term, 350 W continuous
Hybrid Tuning 16 Hz Ported, 22 Hz Ported or Sealed
Q Control Range 0.3 - 0.7
Woofer 15 Inch
Crossover 30 - 90 Hz, Bypassable
Crossover Slope 24 dB/Oct
Phase 0/180
Total Power Outlet Requirement 430 W, 120/240V
Ship Weight 123 lbs
Dimensions 25.0"(h) x 18.0"(w) x 26.0"(d) excluding feet/grille
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post #23 of 797 Old 12-21-2010, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by wantmorehd View Post

Well, they did pick it for product of the year, that must say something.

Yeah, it says they wanted a certain product to win

It definitely was NOT an "ultimate" subwoofer shootout!!

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post #24 of 797 Old 12-21-2010, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pure-Evil View Post

Well. These are the specs on the HSU 15" and I have to say I find it VERY hard to believe that a 350watt rms amp and a 15" driver could come anywhere near out performing an 18" driver with 1300watts of power behind it.

Product At a Glance
Amplifier Power 1400 W short term, 350 W continuous
Hybrid Tuning 16 Hz Ported, 22 Hz Ported or Sealed
Q Control Range 0.3 - 0.7
Woofer 15 Inch
Crossover 30 - 90 Hz, Bypassable
Crossover Slope 24 dB/Oct
Phase 0/180
Total Power Outlet Requirement 430 W, 120/240V
Ship Weight 123 lbs
Dimensions 25.0"(h) x 18.0"(w) x 26.0"(d) excluding feet/grille

Its not a 350Watt amp. you should really post its a 1400Watt amp becaus that is the ratings others use.

You also need to post the driver sensitivity and Xmax of each driver along with the sub design (ported, sealed) to know the differences.

btw, what 18" driver/1300 Watt subs are you refering too?

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post #25 of 797 Old 12-21-2010, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pure-Evil View Post

Well..anything is possible, but I'd sure like to see some graphs and numbers to back up that claim. Care to offer any proof? You dont' have to do the testing yourself, just post the proof you seem to have.

I would expect the HSU to be much boomier since it's ported, but have a lot less slam and total clean output of the A7S 450 since you are comparing completely different beasts here.

Whether or not the HSU is bommier is going to be dependent on the room conditions and the setup. From what I've heard about the A7S, in an open room, it's deep bass is weak without heavy eq due to the roll off which starts at a relatively high frequency. In apparently comes up short in comparison with the Chase products.

Unfortunately, in recent years it's hard to definitively prove anything when it comes to sub vs. sub since there is a lack of good standardized testing like Illka and AV talk used to do.
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post #26 of 797 Old 12-21-2010, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

Its not a 350Watt amp. you should really post its a 1400Watt amp becaus that is the ratings others use.

You also need to post the driver sensitivity and Xmax of each driver along with the sub design (ported, sealed) to know the differences.

btw, what 18" driver/1300 Watt subs are you refering too?

well, he was referring to the A7S 450 and so I went with that. But...the A3-550 is more in line with the HSU...but eD would need to put the 1300watt amp in that sub to make it a more comparable shootout I'd think
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post #27 of 797 Old 12-21-2010, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pure-Evil View Post

Well..anything is possible, but I'd sure like to see some graphs and numbers to back up that claim. Care to offer any proof? You dont' have to do the testing yourself, just post the proof you seem to have.

I would expect the HSU to be much boomier since it's ported, but have a lot less slam and total clean output of the A7S 450 since you are comparing completely different beasts here.

How be you back up your statement since you made it. Knowing how to cut 'n paste sub specs doesn't cut it and is no answer.
Of course if you have nothing to offer except sub ads feel free to go away.

Obviously you're just trolling.
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post #28 of 797 Old 12-21-2010, 08:01 AM
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I am pretty sure he was a dealer or something related to HSU. I had this discussion before with him when he was saying how much better the HSU ULS-15 was than the eD sub as well. It is OK to like something better but like I told Soundood even if the product is great coming from a dealer has little meaning. I can see loving a product so much that you become a dealer for it, I did for Ada!, but I also own the Krell right now and no Ada products. I am not in this for business. I am sure the HSU sub is an awesome product as HSU usually makes great subs(I have never owned any).
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post #29 of 797 Old 12-21-2010, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmpharmacist View Post

According to a post by Gene their forum, the Audioholics Ultimate Subwoofer Shootout "Primer" will be online tomorrow.

The subs being tested are:
HSU VTF-15H
Rythmik FV15HP
Funkywaves FW12.X SA1000
SVS PB12-Plus

I'm very much looking forward to the results! Just thought I'd post this here so that everyone was aware of it.

What happened to the LAVA LSP 12? I thought it had been added to the subs being tested.

Is someone else testing the LAVA LSP 12 for publication?
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post #30 of 797 Old 12-21-2010, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sputter1 View Post

How be you back up your statement since you made it. Knowing how to cut 'n paste sub specs doesn't cut it and is no answer.
Of course if you have nothing to offer except sub ads feel free to go away.

Obviously you're just trolling.

Im' not sure what "statement" you are asking me to back up....other than my initial one saying that these subs are hardly the "ultimate" in subwoofers. I then went on to compare the A5-350 with the 15" Rythmic and stated that they were virtually the same sub except the the Rythmic will cost you around $400-$500.00 more.
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