eD - A7S-450 vs. Epik Empire subwoofers - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: Which subwoofer?
Epik Empire Dual (2 Empires = 4 x15" drivers) 0 0%
eD A7S-450 x2 (2 A7S-450's = 2 x18" drivers) 0 0%
Other: please post information on "other" 0 0%
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post #1 of 60 Old 12-25-2010, 11:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Looking for subs for a friend

Room
HT size: 8' x 15' with 8.5' H
Total room size (connected/open room): 40' x 15' x 8.5 H
-- Volume = 5100 ft^3


Thinking of these two subs (or others...):

eD - A7S - 450 Subwoofer
Link
List Price: $2,125.00 (each)
Your Price: $850.00 (each)
2x A7S-450 = $1600 <- less than 2x $850

1 x 18" driver
sealed
1300W ICE amp
Free Fed Ex shipping (from IA)
Size = ~22" cubed


OR


Epik Empire (Dual)
Link
MSRP $2998
Regular Price $1998
Introductory price $1499
Single sub = $799
+ $139 shipping

2 x Empire = "Dual" = 4 x 15 inch drivers

Quote:


The Empire's two drivers have a surface area equivalent to roughly a 21 inch driver.

Quote:


Reference dual 15 inch high output subwoofer
Combined 1200W RMS amplifier
Parallel Drive Technology
Sealed cabinet design for improved sound quality & subsonic performance
Opposed side-firing drivers cancel out cabinet vibration
Stackable, side-by-side or seperate placement abilities
Reference midbass performance
Massive 1 inch thick cabinet
1 inch thick grills with acoustically transparent fabric
Compact CAD designed enclosure
Precision CNC machined
Full 1 inch radius corners throughout
High quality black laminate finish
RCA and XLR inputs
Combined 3000W short-term RMS
Frequency response : 20-300 Hz +/-3.5 dB
10 -12 Hz usable in-room extension
Weight: 280 pounds shipped duals
Size: Each 22 H x 18 W x 24 D (16W w/o grills)


Constraints:
- budget - $ amounts above are not a problem
- WAF - sub finish must be reasonable. Per WAF, no subs would be preferred and I'm not sure 2 subs will fly, but we'll see
- smallish HT area, but opened space to an entire basement - I'm not sure of sq foot amount
- he is not a "bass-head" (yet) and is currently using a very old 10" sub.


Thanks for any comments.

Mike
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post #2 of 60 Old 12-25-2010, 11:48 AM
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a single A7S-450 or an Epik would do the trick in that room honestly. No need really to get 2, but if you buy 2 450's they are $1600.00 a pair, not $1700.00 but...you can get them in Gloss Black which might help with the WAF. Size wise, the Epik is smaller so might be better for WAF, but I think there will be a delay on the Epiks unless they are in stock. eD is giving a 2 week turnaround right now according to Alex. I just ordered 2 gloss black A7S-450's and got a very good deal.
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post #3 of 60 Old 12-25-2010, 11:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pure-Evil View Post

a single A7S-450 or an Epik would do the trick in that room honestly.
No need really to get 2, but if you buy 2 450's they are $1600.00 a pair, not $1700.00 but...you can get them in Gloss Black which might help with the WAF.

Size wise, the Epik is smaller so might be better for WAF, but I think there will be a delay on the Epiks unless they are in stock.
eD is giving a 2 week turnaround right now according to Alex.
I just ordered 2 gloss black A7S-450's and got a very good deal.

Thanks.
You are correct on cost:
Link
Missed that.

There is no huge rush (he wanted his room done by Thanksgiving and that didn't happen). We just set up his BR (Oppo BDP-93) and AVR (Marantz 7005) 12/24.

So, you think a single 18" or 2x15" sub would be adequate for his room?
One sub might be hidden a little better and used as an end table or something.

I kind of like the idea of opposed drivers to create a more stable cabinet.
Any thoughts?

Mike

*EDIT*
Single subs would then be:
$850 - eD A7S-450 18"
$799 - Epik Empire 2x15"

That would be very palatable to him and his spouse.
I haven't asked him about finishes, but either gloss or other eD options might be nice (bamboo, maple, cherry, walnut)!
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post #4 of 60 Old 12-25-2010, 12:20 PM
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well dual subs will definitely give you better room response, but what I'm saying is a single 18" or dual 15" subs will definitely do the job. If money is no object, then yes go with 2 of either. The Rythmics are also good subs to consider, as well as the HSU 15" that just came out (although a lot more $$$). Lots of good options out there and they are all very close in performance. I personally like the eD subs for their price point and build quality but...you won't go wrong with any of those. I just find the A7S-450 the best bang for $$$ available but that's purely my opinion.

2 x 15" drivers should move more air than 1 18" driver and at $1499.99 they are tough to beat. it is going to basically come down to personal preference I think. Both sealed designs, but well built, both great value for the money.

actually, look at the specs of the room again at 40ft long...duals might be a better option, but that again depends how far away from the sub he's sitting. if you put either of them "near field" you'll find a lot more tactile response compared to if the sub is 25ft away. as for filling the room, one would do well, 2 will do better...the sky is the limit of course.

4 with 1 in each corner would be ideal given all things if money were no object of course.
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post #5 of 60 Old 12-25-2010, 12:26 PM - Thread Starter
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A few other subs I could/should consider:
- Rythmik (from post above)
--- F15 Direct Servo subwoofer - $899 or $1049 (gloss)
- Hsu VTF-15
- Epik Empire
- CHT CS-18.1

Link
Quote:


Let's keep this in prospective ... Right now, there are four subwoofers that offer terrific value in that under $1000 Range.
Each has strengths, each has reasons to buy them.

Those four are the new Hsu VTF-15, The Epik Empire, The eD A7S-450 and the CS-18.1.


Mike
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post #6 of 60 Old 12-25-2010, 12:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pure-Evil View Post

well dual subs will definitely give you better room response, but what I'm saying is a single 18" or dual 15" subs will definitely do the job. If money is no object, then yes go with 2 of either. The Rythmics are also good subs to consider, as well as the HSU 15" that just came out (although a lot more $$$). Lots of good options out there and they are all very close in performance. I personally like the eD subs for their price point and build quality but...you won't go wrong with any of those. I just find the A7S-450 the best bang for $$$ available but that's purely my opinion.

2 x 15" drivers should move more air than 1 18" driver and at $1499.99 they are tough to beat. it is going to basically come down to personal preference I think. Both sealed designs, but well built, both great value for the money.

actually, look at the specs of the room again at 40ft long...duals might be a better option, but that again depends how far away from the sub he's sitting. if you put either of them "near field" you'll find a lot more tactile response compared to if the sub is 25ft away. as for filling the room, one would do well, 2 will do better...the sky is the limit of course.

4 with 1 in each corner would be ideal given all things if money were no object of course.

Room
HT size: 8' x 15' with 8.5' H
Total room size (connected/open room): 40' x 15' x 8.5 H
-- Volume = 5100 ft^3


The sub would like be close to listening position.

Mike
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post #7 of 60 Old 12-25-2010, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_WI View Post

A few other subs I could/should consider:
- Rythmik (from post above)
--- F15 Direct Servo subwoofer - $899 or $1049 (gloss)
- Hsu VTF-15
- Epik Empire
- CHT CS-18.1

Link



Mike

At the moment I would not consider the CS18.1 especially since fit and finish sound like an important factor here. The others are good considerations. How much is shipping on the Dual Epiks? That might make a big difference, because I'm pretty sure shipping 240lbs will not be cheap.
Keep in mind that the eD price INCLUDES shipping in the $800.00 per sub price (160lbs shipped each) and I'm sure that at least $150.00 of the $800.00 accounts for shipping costs. Definitely take that into account in your decision.

If you are going near field...you might seriously want to consider just 1 sub. If you go duals, I wouldn't put one too close or you might find you'll either have to turn that sub way way down or the bass could drown out the other speakers.

You are talking about all very powerful high quality subs here for the most part...subs that will destroy anything in their price range from a standard Best Buy or the like....

I would try to find someone near you who has these subs and go audition them with your friend before buying. I'm sure there are lots of ppl willing to let you come by for a listen. This is a great community.
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post #8 of 60 Old 12-25-2010, 12:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Epik single Empire: + $139 shipping
Epik dual Empire: $238

The cost alone wouldn't be a huge deterrent and we could even potentially pick it up -- but point well taken.
I've owned/own one high quality sub before [SVS PB12-Ultra/2 (rosewood)], so I'm familiar with a good sub, but this would be his first HT and update from a very modest sub.
I'm also asking him about the eD finish options.
Single might be the way to go!

I think the Hsu is taller, which isn't something I'd go for necessarily in this setting.

Mike
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post #9 of 60 Old 12-25-2010, 01:23 PM
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Check the eD thread for some nice pics of the gloss black.
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post #10 of 60 Old 12-25-2010, 01:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pure-Evil View Post

Check the eD thread for some nice pics of the gloss black.

12063 posts.
Any highlights off the top of your head
"Pictures" isn't too helpful for a thread search.

Mike
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post #11 of 60 Old 12-25-2010, 01:44 PM
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Here ya go!
LL
LL
LL
LL
LL
LL
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post #12 of 60 Old 12-25-2010, 01:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks.
Spoon feeding appreciated!


Merry Christmas everyone...

Mike
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post #13 of 60 Old 12-25-2010, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_WI View Post

Thanks.
Spoon feeding appreciated!


Merry Christmas everyone...

Mike

Lol. No worries. I can't wait to get my new one in gloss black! I'll post lots of pictures when I get it
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post #14 of 60 Old 12-25-2010, 06:40 PM
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Take a half day and drive to iowa and see the whole operation at ED.

See and hear all you need. It might be well worth it. It can't be more that 4-5 hour drive.
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post #15 of 60 Old 12-25-2010, 08:04 PM
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How long until you need to purchase the subs?

ED is only 3 hours from me....tempting!

I'd probably go with 18's.....
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post #16 of 60 Old 12-25-2010, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post

How long until you need to purchase the subs?

ED is only 3 hours from me....tempting!

I'd probably go with 18's.....

I'm also tempted to visit eD just to see what the place is like.
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post #17 of 60 Old 12-25-2010, 08:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KERMIE View Post

Take a half day and drive to iowa and see the whole operation at ED.

See and hear all you need. It might be well worth it. It can't be more that 4-5 hour drive.

Epik is closer.
Seaton is close.
eD is farther, but still in the midwest.

Really it would be fun to see the operations at any speaker or sub manufacturer.

That would be a good AVS roadtrip/GTG!

Mike
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post #18 of 60 Old 12-25-2010, 08:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post

How long until you need to purchase the subs?

ED is only 3 hours from me....tempting!

I'd probably go with 18's.....

That's what I thought initially, but check out this quote the Epik site (bold added):

Quote:


The Empire's two drivers have a surface area equivalent to roughly a 21 inch driver.

I do like the idea of dual opposed drivers.
However, I suppose the build of the 18" eD is relatively inert.

Mike
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post #19 of 60 Old 12-25-2010, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_WI View Post


That's what I thought initially, but check out this quote the Epik site (bold added):

I do like the idea of dual opposed drivers.
However, I suppose the build of the 18" eD is relatively inert.

Mike

My A7S-450 is built with incredible attention to detail. Very solid, dead silent cabinet and ultra powerful for the price.
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post #20 of 60 Old 12-25-2010, 08:47 PM
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Mike,

Why are you down to these 2 choices?

HSU/Seaton out of the price range I'm guessing?

CHT when the new finishes come out?


Anyways, good choices. Following to see what you end up with and why...kind of in the same situation.
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post #21 of 60 Old 12-25-2010, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post

Mike,

Why are you down to these 2 choices?

HSU/Seaton out of the price range I'm guessing?

CHT when the new finishes come out?

Anyways, good choices. Following to see what you end up with and why...kind of in the same situation.

What CHT new finishes?
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post #22 of 60 Old 12-25-2010, 08:54 PM
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I have a game room that is about the size of the room that the OP describes. My a7s-450 in my game room.... I cant even imagine that. It would be more than I needed for sure.
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post #23 of 60 Old 12-25-2010, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoopsrgreat View Post

I have a game room that is about the size of the room that the OP describes. My a7s-450 in my game room.... I cant even imagine that. It would be more than I needed for sure.

Yes but 2 will be even better!!! Lol sorry I have the sickness. Hahaha
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post #24 of 60 Old 12-25-2010, 09:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post

Mike,

Why are you down to these 2 choices?

HSU/Seaton out of the price range I'm guessing?

CHT when the new finishes come out?


Anyways, good choices. Following to see what you end up with and why...kind of in the same situation.

I'm giving advice -- some of which has been ignored (eg speaker setup -- Emotiva in walls vs normal speakers), but...

Hsu - too tall I think
Seaton - too expensive (?) and maybe too big
(hmmm, now you got me thinking...road trip to see Seaton and pick up a sub. I got to listen to one of his 1st gen catalysts in a nicely setup HT. No Submersives.)
CHT - still possible. I was originally thinking of various options for in the cabinets (finish not important), but that is now out per (furniture, not subwoofer) cabinet issues. Depending on when he wants his sub, could still be a possibility.

I just hadn't looked at eD and Epik comparisons until recently and saw how low their prices were.

I will meet up with my friend (another Mike) post Christmas and ask him about finish thoughts.


Mike

Here is the Seaton Submersive info:

SubMersive HP Subwoofer - (SubMersives in stock as of Dec. 21st)
DSP Controlled (manufacturer only) 2400W high efficiency amplifier - fully assembled in the US.
Dual opposed, 15" sealed subwoofer.
$2,195 + shipping (typ. $120-139 shiping cost)
$2,095 each + shipping for multiples or for current SubMersive owners.
Black Satin - smooth economy/utility finish w/magnetic grills
Real wood veneer options with magnetic grills
Black Oak veneer - +$100
Espresso stained cherry veneer + $300
Red stained cherry veneer + $300
Golden cherry veneer + $300
Dimensions: 24.25" W x 17.5" D x 25.5" H (including feet & grills)
124 lbs / 136 lbs shipping weight

SubMersive Subwoofer (the original!) - (availability of 1-10 days to ship - finish dependent)
DSP Controlled (manufacturer only) 1000W ICEpower amplifier
Dual opposed, 15" sealed subwoofer.
$1,995 + shipping (typ. $115-135 shiping cost)
$1,895 each + shipping for multiples or for current SubMersive owners.
Black Satin - smooth economy/utility finish w/magnetic grills
Real wood veneer options with magnetic grills
Black Oak veneer - +$100
Espresso stained cherry veneer + $300
Red stained cherry veneer + $300
Golden cherry veneer + $300
Dimensions: 24.25" W x 17.5" D x 25.5" H (including feet & grills)
124 lbs / 136 lbs shipping weight
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post #25 of 60 Old 12-25-2010, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pure-Evil View Post

What CHT new finishes?


I believe his next line of subs will include an upgraded finish....something more glossy...probably not as close to that of your ED products at this time I'm sure...but improved.

I think he had included a picture somewhere in a thread in this sub forum against the old version.

Mike, will his subs be hidden? AT screen?

PE-What is the ED sub constructed of re:enclosure? I guess I can go check the website....

I want to hear an Epik in person, I've always thought the specs looked good...

I would think for this guy, a wife would rather see two smaller cubes in the corners rather than a tall one? I'm just thinking of what mine would say.....

EDIT: The room opens up to something ~5000 sq feet correct? I'm not sure what to get...I imagine anything more than 1-18" or the 2-15" will be more than enough.

Maybe someone can speak to that more that has a similar setup....
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post #26 of 60 Old 12-25-2010, 09:07 PM
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eD uses a custom product more dense than mdf. Very nice and heavy. Most speakers are made of mdf due to sound quality and density. Why anyone would use plywood (that's all Baltic birch is really)
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post #27 of 60 Old 12-25-2010, 09:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post

I believe his next line of subs will include an upgraded finish....something more glossy...probably not as close to that of your ED products at this time I'm sure...but improved.

I think he had included a picture somewhere in a thread in this sub forum against the old version.

Mike, will his subs be hidden? AT screen?

PE-What is the ED sub constructed of re:enclosure? I guess I can go check the website....

I want to hear an Epik in person, I've always thought the specs looked good...

I would think for this guy, a wife would rather see two smaller cubes in the corners rather than a tall one? I'm just thinking of what mine would say.....

1st - What is everyone doing up at 11pm on Christmas!


No AT screen. Actually no screen at all yet. We are working on that.

He was originally going to have smaller subs in the front cabinets with AT cloth for the cabinet front, but I think that got nixed.

I think a single sub is more possible now that people have brought it up and something that could be and end table or something.
(I don't think I can edit poll to include single subs -- but I guess the same comparison applies whether single or double)
Or a tall one might be hidden behind a big leather chair they have?

Mike
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post #28 of 60 Old 12-25-2010, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pure-Evil View Post

eD uses a custom product more dense than mdf. Very nice and heavy. Most speakers are made of mdf due to sound quality and density. Why anyone would use plywood (that's all Baltic birch is really) is beyond me other than cost savings.

I wondered with the listed weights...!


If you go to Seaton, I want a review! I've always wanted to get the SubM but the cost is maybe too much...I want separate subs to help with smoothing the room out.....

EDIT:

Mike-Pregnant wife and 18 month old in bed. I'm watching the Pacific and contemplating what I'm putting around my bar seating. (no more stone veneer....maybe all wainscoating).
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post #29 of 60 Old 12-25-2010, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post


I wondered with the listed weights...!

If you go to Seaton, I want a review! I've always wanted to get the SubM but the cost is maybe too much...I want separate subs to help with smoothing the room out.....

EDIT:

Mike-Pregnant wife and 18 month old in bed. I'm watching the Pacific and contemplating what I'm putting around my bar seating. (no more stone veneer....maybe all wainscoating).

I have heard the submersive... It's not all that and honestly at his price point? No fricken way. I'd get an A7-450 instead less $$$ way more bass. Or the epik dual opposed 15" still way less$$

The season submersive was ok if it was $1000 but at $2000? Give your head a shake!!'


Oh ya...I'm a night owl. I'll be up for hours enjoying my 120" screen. Lol
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post #30 of 60 Old 12-25-2010, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pure-Evil View Post

I have heard the submersive... It's not all that and honestly at his price point? No fricken way. I'd get an A7-450 instead less $$$ way more bass. Or the epik dual opposed 15" still way less$$

The season submersive was ok if it was $1000 but at $2000? Give your head a shake!!'


Oh ya...I'm a night owl. I'll be up for hours enjoying my 120" screen. Lol

Maybe after all the craziness on forums this week I'll end up getting 1 A7-450 and 1 CS-18.1 Series 3? Then I can let them fight it out.

I have a solid sanding and finishing ability if I have to do some tweaks to a cabinet.

Maybe it is time to go to bed.....
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