Sandbagger MFW-15 Turbo Kit Review - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 68 Old 01-04-2011, 07:55 PM - Thread Starter
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I will be writing a full review of the Seaton/Sandbagger MFW-15 Turbo upgrade kit as Kevin was kind enough to lend me one of his prototypes while I wait for my new eD subwoofer to come in.

I can tell you that I was absolutely blown away by what I heard at his house...and I'm really looking forward to seeing what it can do once I've spent some time with it. Look for my full review sometime on the weekend.
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post #2 of 68 Old 01-04-2011, 08:10 PM
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Look's like hell just froze over. This will be interesting....

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post #3 of 68 Old 01-04-2011, 09:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by yadfgp View Post

Look's like hell just froze over. This will be interesting....

HAHAHA. You like that eh? I was pleasantly suprised and impressed (initial impressions at least in a smaller room) with the output and slam the turbo kit offered. I still think it's kinda expensive but....it sure does a nice job. The mid bass 60htz slam was unreal. I think honestly SPL wise it was more powerful than Kevin's Seaton Submersive *this was by ear only and not with an SPL meter btw* (although the Submersive went deeper for sure) all things being equal, and I told Kevin this, I'd rather have a turbo'ed MFW or 2 over one Submersive (especially for the money) *Kevin also has a submersive in the same room...so I asked him to do a quick side by side comparison.*

I think if Kevin can get a hold of enough boxes (which I think he has) and mod them and then resell he has a real winner on his hands IF the price is right.

I will say if you have a dead MFW-15 and are looking for a solution then you need look no further. I would be happier if the turbo kit was a little less costly, but....for what you are getting it looks to be a very good value.

I will also confirm something interesting....comparing the Dayton SA1000 amplifier that Kevin has modified into a Seaton Sound amp. It will NOT give out!!! Compare that to the CHT 18.2 that I demo'ed and if you turned the gain up to even 1/3 it would clip, 1/2 and the amp would shut down completely (same results with 2 different amps btw) but with the modded version I actually turned the gain up to 9/10 and NOTHING!!!! yes the amp indicated clipping, but....there was not much audible clipping going on (a little yes) but even more than that the amp would NOT shut down no matter how loud it got.

The MFW-15 Turbo driver is a tank...with UNBELIEVABLE excursion. Seriously, man did that driver have HUGE X-MAX!!!

I'll write more later when I have a chance to really put this modified sub through it's paces...and as always I will write my honest impressions. I actually was expecting to be disappointed (told Kevin that too..he just laughed at me on the phone) but the only thing I was disappointed by was my own doubts without actually hearing the sub. I'll reserve final judgement until after I do my testing...and if Kevin's fix for my MFW-15 amp worked..I'll be doing a direct comparison of the 2...and I'll let you know if it's actually louder than 2 stock MFW-15's.

$750.00 (I think that's what they sell for) is steep, but again, you are getting a monster amp and a monster driver....so although not cheap, it certainly beats throwing out a perfectly good sub box (which is what MOST MFW's are after the amps blow)

If you have an empty or blown MFW-15 (or get one REALLY cheap) this looks to be a very good option. It would be a lot more painful if like me you bought your MFW's for say...$700.00 each (yes I got suckered too) and then had to drop another $750.00 into them to get them working...but at least they would work.

My hope for Kevin's success is that he is able to get a deep enough discount on his amps/drivers/plates that he can reduce the costs and make this a more affordable option for end users. If that happens...look out boys....
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post #4 of 68 Old 01-04-2011, 09:34 PM
 
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It amazes me that PE still touts a love for a MFW-15 which is the top worst sub in terms of durability ever on avs. Yet he beats CHT down mercilessly for one bad unit. Damn near all of these were bad units, yet the general consensus seems to be let's keep them going somehow, someway.

Gotta love AVS.
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post #5 of 68 Old 01-04-2011, 09:37 PM
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I never had trouble with my dayton amps.
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post #6 of 68 Old 01-04-2011, 09:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddelts View Post

It amazes me that PE still touts a love for a MFW-15 which is the top worst sub in terms of durability ever on avs. Yet he beats CHT down mercilessly for one bad unit. Damn near all of these were bad units, yet the general consensus seems to be let's keep them going somehow, someway.

Gotta love AVS.

dude...i'm not praising the MFW-15 in any way!!! I'm praising the resourcefullness and performance of a smart guy creating a way to make the POS MFW-15's that died working so people are not out all their money.

I have said many times I'm not sure it's worth the money per se (considering it's almost as much as a new working sub) but....if you can't bring yourself to throw away your MFW then it's a viable option.
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post #7 of 68 Old 01-05-2011, 12:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddelts View Post

Gotta love AVS.

Agreed, this place is something else at times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pure-Evil View Post

dude...i'm not praising the MFW-15 in any way!!! I'm praising the resourcefullness and performance of a smart guy creating a way to make the POS MFW-15's that died working so people are not out all their money.

I have said many times I'm not sure it's worth the money per se (considering it's almost as much as a new working sub) but....if you can't bring yourself to throw away your MFW then it's a viable option.

That was really cool of Kevin to loan you that sub after the way you have treated him here.

A properly working MFW-15 is a pretty damn good sounding sub. If it quits working, the most viable option is the $20 fix Murrel has given us. If you want to take your MFW-15 to the next level, then the Seaton/Sandbagger Turbo is a great way to do that.

And, despite your many comments on the price, it is a very fairly priced way to do it. I am tempted to do it myself, I love the way my Diamond Black MFW-15 looks and sounds... to get even more out of it?!? Very tempting indeed.

But I'll probably just sell it and get an 18.T Duo.

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post #8 of 68 Old 01-05-2011, 01:03 AM
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Now, of course, we are going to expect graphed measurements from you, PE.

- The stock MFW-15.
- The dual MFW-15's.
- The Turbo'ed MFW-15.

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post #9 of 68 Old 01-05-2011, 01:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tesseract67 View Post

Agreed, this place is something else at times.



That was really cool of Kevin to loan you that sub after the way you have treated him here.

A properly working MFW-15 is a pretty damn good sounding sub. If it quits working, the most viable option is the $20 fix Murrel has given us. If you want to take your MFW-15 to the next level, then the Seaton/Sandbagger Turbo is a great way to do that.

And, despite your many comments on the price, it is a very fairly priced way to do it. I am tempted to do it myself, I love the way my Diamond Black MFW-15 looks and sounds... to get even more out of it?!? Very tempting indeed.

But I'll probably just sell it and get an 18.T Duo.

Kevin and I are friends...and maybe I say things publicly that I shouldn't..but he knows I respect him and takes what I say with a grain of salt.

The capacitor fix is very good (kevin fixed an amp for me tonight actually) and the MFW-15 is a good sub....but I'm suspecting no where near the performance of the turbo after what i've heard. my issue with the price has always been that you could buy a brand new sub for around the same amount....that being said...it is definitely a good viable option for those who don't want to give up or throw away their MFW's.
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post #10 of 68 Old 01-05-2011, 01:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tesseract67 View Post

Now, of course, we are going to expect graphed measurements from you, PE.

- The stock MFW-15.
- The dual MFW-15's.
- The Turbo'ed MFW-15.

I'll leave the graphs for Sandbagger to do when he gets back from CES. He has the mic's and other necessary equipment to do it properly...and after all it's his project. I'll simply post my impressions etc in a fair and honest way as I always do..but again, it will me MY impressions...so take them as you will
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post #11 of 68 Old 01-05-2011, 01:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pure-Evil View Post

I'll leave the graphs for Sandbagger to do when he gets back from CES. He has the mic's and other necessary equipment to do it properly...and after all it's his project. I'll simply post my impressions etc in a fair and honest way as I always do..but again, it will me MY impressions...so take them as you will

I am fine with subjective opinions, listening is a purely subjective pastime at the end of it all!

But it is good to be able to back up what you hear with measurements if possible. Do you at least have an SPL meter? You obviously have a computer, so downloading test tones is cake.

Play 1000hz. or a pink noise signal at 75db to establish a baseline, then run through the tones. Graph the results on paper or MS Excel. Make the necessary adjustments with respect to room placement/level/crossover/phase. Wash, rinse, repeat until you get a satisfactory result.

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post #12 of 68 Old 01-05-2011, 08:57 AM
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PE,

I'm glad you were able to make the trip down to Kevin's.

I've been a very happy Turbo owner for some time now, and I'm in que for my second. This beast just never ceases to amaze me. Can't wait for your review!
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post #13 of 68 Old 01-05-2011, 09:22 AM
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"But I'll probably just sell it and get an 18.T Duo. "

Ha! That's what I did!

Having bought one of PEs MFWs which worked fine, I was looking forward to eventually adding a Turbo kit but ended up with the 18.T due to the TurboKit delays. Definitely no regrets, just crazy bass in my HT now!
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post #14 of 68 Old 01-05-2011, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddelts View Post

It amazes me that PE still touts a love for a MFW-15 which is the top worst sub in terms of durability ever on avs. Yet he beats CHT down mercilessly for one bad unit. Damn near all of these were bad units, yet the general consensus seems to be let's keep them going somehow, someway.

Gotta love AVS.

Not really a fair statement since this is only the outer shell of a MFW. The Turbo kit is a whole different animal from the stock MFW. Not the same at all.
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post #15 of 68 Old 01-05-2011, 04:43 PM
 
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any news on an amp that will power duals with the new drivers? I would buy that package right now. Because $750 x2 plus shipping for turbos would kill me. Say like 900-$1000 for an amp to power duals plus some nice new drivers would be very doable.
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post #16 of 68 Old 01-05-2011, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by 12hz View Post

any news on an amp that will power duals with the new drivers? I would buy that package right now. Because $750 x2 plus shipping for turbos would kill me. Say like 900-$1000 for an amp to power duals plus some nice new drivers would be very doable.

Kevin AKA Sandbagger, plus Mark Seaton to an extent, are allegedly working on other projects involving the MFW-15. Allegedly a new amp replacement, allegedly a driver upgrade. All kinds of stuff. They're being very hush hush about it all though.

I'm maybe in the same boat you are. I've got 4 MFW's I'd like to upgrade but a Turbo kit is a lot more than I'd like to spend to upgrade my $300.00 sub on. An amp that can drive 2 MFW's with an upgraded driver in each sounds good to me though. Just kind of have to wait around for who knows how long for them to come up with some info.

Check out http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/?forum=154357 for more info.

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post #17 of 68 Old 01-05-2011, 05:37 PM
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post #18 of 68 Old 01-05-2011, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
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Basicly sums up the way I have felt for the last 6months.... hope this changes in the next week, at least I have Vegas and CES to take my mind off things this weekend

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post #19 of 68 Old 01-05-2011, 06:34 PM - Thread Starter
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This is probably in response to my positive feelings on the turbo kit..and the fact that i'm listening to one....

pretty funny actually
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post #20 of 68 Old 01-05-2011, 06:42 PM
 
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LOL, sorry guys... but to be honest, I bet you would sell a sh*t load of those packages.

I was looking at some of the Craigsub subs but they kinda look like they were made in a grade 8 shop class by stoner kids. The diamond MFW's I own are way too nice to just get rid of.
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post #21 of 68 Old 01-05-2011, 07:13 PM - Thread Starter
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LOL, sorry guys... but to be honest, I bet you would sell a sh*t load of those packages.

I was looking at some of the Craigsub subs but they kinda look like they were made in a grade 8 shop class by stoner kids. The diamond MFW's I own are way too nice to just get rid of.

and it's because of that reason people would buy a turbo kit over a new sub and scrap the mfw. people love the look and they paid a lot for those subs (me included) and if that's the case...buy a turbo kit for sure
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post #22 of 68 Old 01-05-2011, 07:17 PM
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Pure-Evil, do you own an a7s-450 or are you waiting on one? If you own it, I was wondering if you could proffer an opinion on the turbo mfw vs. the a7s-450.
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post #23 of 68 Old 01-05-2011, 07:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Pure-Evil, do you own an a7s-450 or are you waiting on one? If you own it, I was wondering if you could proffer an opinion on the turbo mfw vs. the a7s-450.

well. i "owned" one up until last friday when I sold it....and I'm waiting for my new one to ship. I have not given the turbo enough listening time YET to make a fair comparison...but thus far if I had to say after listening to it tonight....I'd say.....

The MFW-15 "turbo" is quite a good performer, very good in the mid bass region, definitely much more powerful than a stock mfw with lots of punch...but....the A7S-450 definitely digs deeper, has more impact, and is tighter sounding (due to the sealed design I'm sure) but...this was to be expected.

I'll write a full review when I have time this weekend after torturing the turbo kit...and if I still have it when my new A7S-450 arrives I'll do a direct comparison.

as for a direct mfw stock vs turbo...well, my stock one is pooched at the moment...so that's not gonna happen any time soon.
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post #24 of 68 Old 01-06-2011, 01:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12hz View Post

LOL, sorry guys... but to be honest, I bet you would sell a sh*t load of those packages.

I was looking at some of the Craigsub subs but they kinda look like they were made in a grade 8 shop class by stoner kids. The diamond MFW's I own are way too nice to just get rid of.

Are you hitting 12hz with dual MFW-15's?

I love the way my Diamond Black looks, and will miss it if I do indeed sell it. If I do not sell it, it will get Turbo'ed for sure, if the kit becomes available again. But don't give up on Craig, keep an eye on CHT.

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post #25 of 68 Old 01-06-2011, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
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This is probably in response to my positive feelings on the turbo kit..and the fact that i'm listening to one....

pretty funny actually

And it sounds like you like it too

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post #26 of 68 Old 01-06-2011, 07:14 AM
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I think a lot of what your hearing is the whole sealed vs ported thing along with it being in a HUGE room But it also wont make you jump out of your chair when you hit the limiter

Quote:
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The MFW-15 "turbo" is quite a good performer, very good in the mid bass region, definitely much more powerful than a stock mfw with lots of punch...but....the A7S-450 definitely digs deeper, has more impact, and is tighter sounding (due to the sealed design I'm sure) but...this was to be expected.


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post #27 of 68 Old 01-06-2011, 01:36 PM
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I am interested in this product. But, due to the price I probably won't get it. Cost of sub $500 + cost of kit $800 = $1,300 total.

Also, My MFW is still working.

I wonder how this will compare the the HSU VTF-15H. The cost of this sub is close the cost of the turbo kit alone.

Anyways, I am interested in your thoughts after you listen to it pure-evil.
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post #28 of 68 Old 01-06-2011, 02:19 PM
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I wonder how this will compare the the HSU VTF-15H.

I think the Turbo would have it for a snack
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post #29 of 68 Old 01-06-2011, 02:48 PM - Thread Starter
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I think the Turbo would have it for a snack

That I'm not sure of as I've never heard the new HSU
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post #30 of 68 Old 01-07-2011, 03:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Well...watching some movies with the MFW-15 Turbo kit (prototype) and wow. it sure does pack a lot of power. The amp clips like crazy (gain set to 12 O'clock) but Kevin has told me he's modded it so it will not shut off or audibly clip. I'm still testing....

It's powerful and loud, not as deep as the other subs I've heard, but for movies so far pretty good. I'm still playing with the EQ of the amp.

I was not super impressed with it's performance for music, but....like I said I have to play with the EQ some more. Seemed like the sub really likes 50-60htz but it's almost overkill in music. I had to turn it down quite a bit. I'll report back more later this weekend...but I thought I'd give you a little update.

oh ya, and YES, it is definitely more powerful than 2 stock MFW-15's...of that I'm 100% sure.

What I will say for sure is that THIS is how the MFW-15 SHOULD HAVE BEEN in the first place. Sadly, we all go hosed by "you know who".

If you have an MFW-15 and it's not working, and you just can't bring yourself to throw it out....I think this is a great option (especially if they can do it a little cheaper) to keep your sub alive and working with a LOT more power

I do have to wonder though...if you would get close to or maybe even as good performance with a different heavy duty 15" driver and say an EP2500... It might not be quite as good, but...it would certainly be priced in around $400.00 which might make it more attractive to more people. The amp is a big part of the cost of this kit (retails at $450.00 for standard SA1000) and I know you can get an EP2500 for around $200.00...and hell, even a feedback destroyer pretty cheaply used (60.00). Just another thought on options.

That being said, however, it's a lot of work and a guessing game compared to buying direct from Sanbagger and getting a tested EQ'ed unit that's pretty much plug and play. Just another thought....might be money well spent for the extra cash with less hassle

I will say the more I listen to this sub the more impressed I am.
Pure-Evil is offline  
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