BIC F12 or Klipsch Synergy Sub-12 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 42 Old 01-27-2011, 07:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Short and sweet...would you pick the bic f12 for 220 or the Klipsch synergy sub-12 for 250.

I notice the Klipsch has a higher RMS at 300 with peak at 600 versus the f12 at 150 RMS and 475 for peak.
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post #2 of 42 Old 01-27-2011, 10:59 PM
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I have two of the sub-12's set up and they are great for the money. For the price your paying i would say get two, it really makes a huge difference. And the sub-12 was originally $800 here. I didn't pay that, but that just shows your getting a sick deal. My room has very poor acoustics, but they still shine quite well. Keep in mind these are not high performance subs, and while they sound great and will shake your house, they do have limits.
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post #3 of 42 Old 01-27-2011, 11:12 PM
 
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Be careful with the sub specs, they don't necessarily translate to a better sub, other factors are involved.

I picked the F12 because at the time, it was 183 on amazon with free shipping. While good for movies, it lacks in music as I recently discovered.

F12 has a 5 year amp warranty, the Sub12 a 3 year amp warranty. What sounds better? People seem to think the Sub12 performs better with movies and music. Only thing is the Sub10 and Sub12 series have a chronic amp problem and if you're like the many unlucky owners on Klipsch's forum, your sub might die prematurely and you'll be stuck footing the repair bill. Klipsch's customer service response to the problem hasn't been good, read this forum to see what people are going through to get their sub fixed:

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/143115/1461162.aspx

I Good luck making your decision, if I were you, I would check out HSU's STF-1 which is on sale right now for $269. It probably trumps both of these subs, though slightly smaller.
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post #4 of 42 Old 01-28-2011, 07:18 AM
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At around $400, the Hsu STF-2 and eD A2-300 are well considered in this forum. These are the first two that do not have some of the limitations of the (well considered) lesser priced subs. The Hsu amps have been very reliable.

As soon as you discover that there are problems with a particular sub or a current line of subs (almost always their amplifiers), you should stay away.
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post #5 of 42 Old 01-28-2011, 08:27 AM
 
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+1 on advice there, that's exactly why I went with the F12, the Sub12 amp problem scared me away.

Although if I could do it over, I would have waited to get a HSU STF-2 when they go on sale. I didn't realize after I setup my system that music listening would even factor into my purchase. After hearing some music and how nice it sounded with my Polk monitors, I realized how vital a good musical sub is.
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post #6 of 42 Old 01-28-2011, 11:04 AM
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My Hsu STF-2 is absolutely superb with the 4-6 large drums in the grand finale and closing credits of the movie "Fame". The STF-2 does play flat to 25 Hz (thus good for HT) but not adequately fill larger rooms.
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post #7 of 42 Old 01-28-2011, 04:06 PM - Thread Starter
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I really appreciate the input you guys gave me. I wasn't aware at all that the sub-12 had some problems like that. I am a bit shocked though that a good company like that could have problems where the amp just dies...I have to say also I wasn't aware of the warranty differences between the two and the 5 year warranty would certainly give me some peace of mind.

Thanks guys, its people like you that can really save a newbie like me ALOT of trouble down the road and I love that!

Thank you!
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post #8 of 42 Old 01-29-2011, 03:49 PM
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I just cancelled my order of the Klipsch Sub-12HG after reading through the Klipsch forum about the Sub-10 and 12 models. It didn't take long for me to realize that I didn't want to risk it with the amps in that particular line.

I have a pretty large room, 25x18', but also have neighbors about 10 feet and 2 brick walls from my TV and don't plan on leveling the neighborhood. I'm considering bumping up 100 bucks and getting the HSU STF-2. The budget is tight since this is an unexpected replacement for a sub that passed away during a couple quick surges.

~350 is pushing at the top end of my emergency sub replacement budget, not sure how to proceed, really.
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post #9 of 42 Old 01-29-2011, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bran81 View Post

I just cancelled my order of the Klipsch Sub-12HG after reading through the Klipsch forum about the Sub-10 and 12 models. It didn't take long for me to realize that I didn't want to risk it with the amps in that particular line.

I have a pretty large room, 25x18', but also have neighbors about 10 feet and 2 brick walls from my TV and don't plan on leveling the neighborhood. I'm considering bumping up 100 bucks and getting the HSU STF-2. The budget is tight since this is an unexpected replacement for a sub that passed away during a couple quick surges.

~350 is pushing at the top end of my emergency sub replacement budget, not sure how to proceed, really.

Have you considered the Klipsch Reference RW-12d?

Newegg is running a crazy deal on it for $350 shipped today.

Klipsch RW-12d at Newegg

I am debating it myself...
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post #10 of 42 Old 01-29-2011, 04:21 PM
 
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Absolutely agree, I'm staring at the newegg deal for the Klipsch RW-12d sub and itching to pull the trigger. This sub should perform better and louder than the STF-2.

VERY TEMPTING PRICE!!!! And a powerful sub at that!

UPDATE: I'm uncertain if this could beat the STF-2, which I read in a forum could walk all over this Klipsch sub. It was a claim by one guy who sounded very certain, but I haven't heard from anyone who has tested the side by side.
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post #11 of 42 Old 01-29-2011, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NatasG View Post

Have you considered the Klipsch Reference RW-12d?

Newegg is running a crazy deal on it for $350 shipped today.

Klipsch RW-12d at Newegg

I am debating it myself...

Haha, saw that this morning, I was thinking about it, too. I'm kind of partial to a down firing setup, though.

I suppose my front-runners are the RW-12d, the STF-2, and BIC F12. I really wish I could find another down firing option to consider in the 250-350 range.

EDIT: On second thought, I think that's too good of a deal to pass up, maybe even more so if that "Bill Me Later" thing on NewEgg is simple. I'll go ahead and snatch it up.
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post #12 of 42 Old 01-29-2011, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bran81 View Post

Haha, saw that this morning, I was thinking about it, too. I'm kind of partial to a down firing setup, though.

I suppose my front-runners are the RW-12d, the STF-2, and BIC F12. I really wish I could find another down firing option to consider in the 250-350 range.

For down firing subs, the STF-2 would be a great choice, You can also look at the ed A2-250 which also gets great reviews on here, it also goes for $350, although you might have to wait for a month and a half to get it. If you are looking at the F12, there is also the BIC V-1220 which sells for about $172 on Amazon and many compare it to the F12 and also gets great reviews on here for being a great budget down-firiing sub.
I just saw that you went ahead with the Klipsch RW-12d, congrats, I hope
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post #13 of 42 Old 01-29-2011, 04:55 PM
 
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I started to dig around the net and so far only found 2 people complaining about this sub. One guy had a dead amp after 3 years, cost $250 for replacement amp(since it was out of warranty). The other person had the digital display get corrupted 2 weeks after purchase, he got the whole unit replaced by Klipsch free.

It sounds like a good unit that doesn't have the chronic amp issues the Sub 10 and Sub 12 line have.

I'm wondering if Newegg's 1 year extended warranty plan for $32.99 is worth the investment to get a solid 3 years of coverage on this unit.

I wish Klipsch gave a 5 year amp and driver warranty like my F12 has or the chance to extend the warranty that far. At least I know with my F12, I get a solid 5 years of use out of it.
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post #14 of 42 Old 01-30-2011, 08:39 AM
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I ended up ordering the sub-12 Friday. I had not heard about the amp issues
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post #15 of 42 Old 01-30-2011, 09:00 AM
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You can purchase a BIC f-12 at shopblt.com $181 shipped. I am considering the Klip RW12.
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post #16 of 42 Old 01-30-2011, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texraider View Post

For down firing subs, the STF-2 would be a great choice, You can also look at the ed A2-250 which also gets great reviews on here, it also goes for $350, although you might have to wait for a month and a half to get it. If you are looking at the F12, there is also the BIC V-1220 which sells for about $172 on Amazon and many compare it to the F12 and also gets great reviews on here for being a great budget down-firiing sub.
I just saw that you went ahead with the Klipsch RW-12d, congrats, I hope

I'll research those, I see the RW-12d is still at the sale price on NewEgg. I see it has a BASH amp like the Sub-10/12, but more powerful. I'm not sold on it, so I backed off.
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post #17 of 42 Old 01-30-2011, 10:19 AM
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I have no idea if this is a good price but Vanns' deal of the day today is the rw-10d for $280. http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it...klipsch-rw-10d
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post #18 of 42 Old 01-30-2011, 10:39 AM
 
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GUYS- DO NOT CHOOSE BILL ME LATER!

I was about to order this sub on newegg with bill me later when I did a quick google and it turns out these guys are more ruthless than creditors. They will harass you relentlessly and even charge you interest even if you have a special offer.

I am still on the fence with getting this sub or waiting for the STF-2 to go on sale.....*twiddling thumbs*
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post #19 of 42 Old 01-30-2011, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG INJUN CHIEF View Post

You can purchase a BIC f-12 at shopblt.com $181 shipped. I am considering the Klip RW12.


+1



went with two F12's from BLT.com last month and couldn't be happier.

I considered the Klipsch 12" but my previous Klipsch's amp blew so I didn't want to go that route again. While the Klipsch's sound good it seems their amps are a common problem.
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post #20 of 42 Old 01-30-2011, 11:17 AM
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After scouring threads and reviews, I just purchased BIC's Acoustech H-100 on AMZ for a song, thought it was quite a deal considering the praise for a budget unit. It'll be used for movies 90-95% of the time.

In the price range, it was down to:
BIC F12 (Currently ~20 more than H-100 via AMZ, so went H-100)
BIC H-100 (Too much praise to not try it out at that price with a good rturn policy)
HSU STF-2 (Really tempting, but a bit of a reach when adding S/H)
Klipsch RW-10d/12d (BASH amp concerns based on the Synergy Sub-10/12)
ED A2-250 (Price seems to have increased, so I was turned off)

I read into a Dayton model that appears to be discontinued and the SVS options are beyond my meager budget.
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post #21 of 42 Old 01-30-2011, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr stroke View Post

+1



went with two F12's from BLT.com last month and couldn't be happier.

I considered the Klipsch 12" but my previous Klipsch's amp blew so I didn't want to go that route again. While the Klipsch's sound good it seems their amps are a common problem.



Just cuious, how long did the Klip live. I tend to purchase things that I think/hope are a little higher in quality and keep for a long time.
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post #22 of 42 Old 01-30-2011, 08:29 PM
 
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The Klipsch RW-12D is higher tier from their reference line and doesn't seem to have the amp issues the Sub10/Sub12 series have. At least, I wasn't able to find any complaints about it...except for one guy who said the amp died after 3 years, which seems like decent mileage to me.

Still, can't find a sub that compares to the F12's mighty 5 year driver and amp warranty! Unless you buy a HSU and pay for their extended amp warranty to push it up to 5 years.

I'm on the fence if I should get the Klipsch or not. The deal will probably end in a couple of days if not sooner. After thinking about it, I have no doubt that it has power with its bash hybrid amp and will probably crank, I'm just worried if it'll sound as accurate and tight as a HSU stf-2. My logic say to get the Klipsch because its a better value for what you get(300 watt bash amp, digital eq + remote), but my spidey sense is saying to wait for the STF-2.

What to do............
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post #23 of 42 Old 01-31-2011, 12:20 PM
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Can I just say something here?

I checked out the entire klipcsh forums for Synergy sub 12's going down and I gotta say I didn't find too many threads on it.

Sure there were 5 or 6 but really doesn't that fall within the normal "problem" issues every type of equipment has (At least at a $400 or less price range).

"Knock on wood" but I've had no issues with my 2 Sub 12's at all.

I know a TON of Sub 12's were sold and this is the first I've ever heard of the Amp in the sub 12 being "prone" to failure.

So i guess I'd like more evidence on this besides a dozen or so individual posts.



Test,

Mpray1983- "User error due to sneeze or fart occurred during measurement"
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post #24 of 42 Old 01-31-2011, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG INJUN CHIEF View Post

Just cuious, how long did the Klip live. I tend to purchase things that I think/hope are a little higher in quality and keep for a long time.

I currently own a Klipsch RSW12 that I purchased in 2003. The BASH amp in that unit finally died in 2010 (7 years is not bad at all). I got a refurbished replacement amp from Klipsch for about $180 or so. At the same time I bought my RSW12, I bought my parents an RSW10 (also BASH amp). Their sub still works perfectly without any problems. I sold HT for a retailer from 1998-2003, that sold tons of Klipsch product. I can probably count on one hand the number Klipsch subs that I saw that had failed due to amp problems. Hope that helps.
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post #25 of 42 Old 01-31-2011, 03:40 PM
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Since forum posts are typically all people have to go on when it comes to a product's reliability, I chose to lean the other way regarding Klipsch Sub-10/12. I agree, though, that Klipsch sells so many units that the amount of complainers on their forum might be pretty small in comparison, but there's no solid way to figure that.

I passed on the RW-12d b/c of it's dimensions being larger than any of the competitors, tax b/c NewEgg has a warehouse here, and some, not necessarily warranted, concern about amp longevity. I don't know if the exact same parts that were in an early 2000 model RW are the exact same as a current model, maybe. I know most products have modifications to their components over such a span. I didn't care to delve into it at this price point, so it's all unfounded, speculation.

The one thing I'm curious about with the faulty Sub 10/12 is if some users didn't have them plugged into a surge protector or power conditioner of any kind; that could be one possible explanation for some of the amps going out.
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post #26 of 42 Old 01-31-2011, 04:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Bran81,

Funny you mention that b/c on the reviews (I think on newegg actually) the first one that came up was from a guy that pointed out the exact same thought. He seemed to know what he was talking about too b/c of the level of detail the review actually went into. Anyone else have any thoughts on this? This may be especially true if you lived in an older house, about 6 months ago I had a fridge go out from a lightning strike but luckily everything else in the house was on a surge protector.
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post #27 of 42 Old 01-31-2011, 04:27 PM
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I read a few other threads as well. Including a comment from Klipsch. One gentleman stated he fixed his buy fiddling with the power on-off switch. A Klipsch rep said that their research indicated a failure rate of less than 1%. Oh well. It should be hear tomorrow. Cross fingers that I will not get a faulty unit. Considering a0 double down and either going with another SUB-12 or maybe the RW12. Price on newegg for both back up. I would go with the F12 for the front fire, but BLT has them on backorder until late March. I think (and I am naive and dumb enough to believe me ) that a combo front fire down fire will make a bit of difference.....
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post #28 of 42 Old 01-31-2011, 04:31 PM
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post #29 of 42 Old 01-31-2011, 04:39 PM
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Correction: She claimed a hypothetical failure rate of 1%.
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post #30 of 42 Old 01-31-2011, 10:20 PM
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I'd probably not worry much about getting a Klipsch in the RW series and just make sure it runs through a decent surge protector. I ordered a Panamax subwoofer surge protector based on a short thread here. My positioning isn't close enough to plug into my main surge protector.
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