SHOOTOUT! Epik Empire vs HSU VTF-15H vs CHT CS18.1 vs Rythmik FV15 vs eD A7s-450 - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 1257 Old 02-08-2011, 08:17 PM
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I enjoy the "adjust it right now" aspect of good old analog controls as much as the next guy. But really, if we are going to manually eq, for $50 used on ebay you can pick up a BFD and have more channels and adjustability than you could ever use. Plus all the settings get stored indefinitely. You can even store multiple profiles or house curves. The BFD has fallen out of favor with the pro audio crowd and has been cast aside (read: pick them up cheap) and work great for our purposes. I guess there's a way to do some auto-adjusting with REW and a MIDI cable but I"ve never tried it.
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post #272 of 1257 Old 02-08-2011, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BufordTJustice View Post

Despite your stating 'in all fairness', it's not. You took care to articulate that the process of using the eQ.2 was difficult, arduous, and time consuming. I showed that it was not. Again, what are you getting at?

I didn't state it wasn't practical to use the eQ.2 with most of the subs; I stated it would be of minimal benefit for most of the subs as compared to using it with the A7s-450. It also would not be unfair to exclusively use the eQ.2 with another eD product. Besides, even priced WITH the eQ.2, the A7s is still cheaper than half the field. The SVS mechanism, while it would be fair, would move the PB12 plus into the same price range as the A7-450; a sub that most woudl agree is in a different performance bracket. I refuse to engage in a this-versus-that discussion. SVS makes good subs and so does eD.

You're saying to me that it's not practical to take 5 minutes to set a subsonic hi-pass filter on a sub? I'm not buying that. That's all that several subs could have taken advantage of anyway.

To prove my point, the Craigsub didn't even have an internal AMPLIFIER. The entire amp was external, which included HALF of an eQ.2 (a single band parametric equalizer) that WAS used in the test to smooth and aid its response. So.....was THAT still fair?

"I just don't see more than handful making any kind of effort like this and I applaud the OP's."

So, are you speaking from direct experience? I mean, how many people, exactly, have you spoken to that have an eQ.2 that have not taken the time to use it? I'm asking you to support your assertion.

Moreover, for the MANY people that have auto-EQ...they're gonna use it and it requires minimal effort, and achieve substantially the same results.

Lastly, I also appreciate the OP's hard work in this review. They DID post it so people could discuss it. That's what we're doing right now.

BufordTJustice, I can't begin to seperate the confusion you've inserted into your interpretations of my posts. It's a hopeless cause.

I'm going back to the core response I gave you in as finely tuned points as possible:

Quote:
Originally Posted by BufordTJustice View Post

The fact is, the eQ.2 would be an advantage to nearly every sub in the competition in some fashion or another (for EQ purposes or just a quality outboard subsonic filter). It adds so much, I feel the review of the A7s-450 would have gone much differently if that tool was utilized.

*Using the eQ.2 In my opinion with real world experience with it is burdensome for all 5 subs in this review as you had suggested. In my experience using the eQ.2 can be rewarding, but can be equally frusterating and time consuming. I'm glad they didn't use EQ outside of what was provided/included with the subwoofer.

*If you wanted a subwoofer shootout with external parametric equalizer review, you should do one. I'm happy with the the OP's subwoofer only review in it's current state. I'm sorry they didn't do the review YOU wanted done with external parametric EQ's on the subs.

I'm lying by the way... i'm not sorry the OP's didn't do the review YOU wanted. I'm glad they did the review THEY wanted. It was their time and money.
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post #273 of 1257 Old 02-08-2011, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by below90hz View Post

Hey Buford, i know its a long read so you probably just missed it, but there is a reason why we eQ'd the CS 18.1 and the FV15: it is because the eQing capability comes with those subs in the purchase price (the outboard amp used with the CS18.1 is included in the package and has its own 1band eQ built in).

The Empire and Hsu had no eQing built in, so they were not eQ'd either. As for the A7s-450, we were going to eQ it, but then we would've shown the price as $935 shipped. Since it performed very well without it, and two other subs also weren't eQ'd, we thought it would be most fair to eD to show how awesome the A7s-450 performed as the lowest-priced sub.

Also I do have to admit, my first time around with the eQ.2 took about 45 minutes to play with before I got some decent results. Now that I have more experience with it I'm sure it'd be less than that, but then again it took me a while with the Dayton amp too before I finally gave up trying to flatten a peak and just boosted a valley. Huh. Maybe I should've let Adam do the eQing!

Ethan, I appreciate your clarification and your candor. Again, you guys hit it out of the park.

It's no secret that I'm a biased and very-pleased owner of an A7s-450 that came with the eQ.2 for free....and you DID predict that fanboys would appear. I guess I have fanboy tendencies. Haha.

45 minutes is about normal...so there's no ding on you for that. I would hope that the attached calculator and the audioholics page on my previous post would help most people achieve much quicker results.

I suppose my preference, not that it matters, is that the A7s would have been tested with the eQ.2 in place, in addition to the 25Hz boost. I feel it would have affected its perceived sound quality as compared to the other subs with a minimal cost increase. None of the other manufacturers provide such a cost effective solution. The usage of it would be moot if an auto-EQ was used (from a receiver or the like). But, it's your universe and we're just reading about it....I don't wanna be a knuckle-head who acts like I would have done better...I just don't have the time to even approach the amount of work you guys put in.

I don't want my back-and-forth w/ Jack to detract from the fact that I am grateful that you and Adam went to the trouble and effort that you did to do, literally, the best subwoofer review to date that I've ever read. I don't believe that you're in anybody's pocket or that the conclusions belong to anybody but you and Adam. That is solid gold. I disagree on a few finer points...but the project is a landslide success. I hope people try to copy what you guys did here in the future.

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post #274 of 1257 Old 02-08-2011, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackOften View Post

BufordTJustice, I can't begin to seperate the confusion you've inserted into your interpretations of my posts. It's a hopeless cause.

I'm going back to the core response I gave you in as finely tuned points as possible:



*Using the eQ.2 In my opinion with real world experience with it is burdensome for all 5 subs in this review as you had suggested. In my experience using the eQ.2 can be rewarding, but can be equally frusterating and time consuming. I'm glad they didn't use EQ outside of what was provided/included with the subwoofer.

*If you wanted a subwoofer shootout with external parametric equalizer review, you should do one. I'm happy with the the OP's subwoofer only review in it's current state. I'm sorry they didn't do the review YOU wanted done with external parametric EQ's on the subs.

I'm lying by the way... i'm not sorry the OP's didn't do the review YOU wanted. I'm glad they did the review THEY wanted. It was their time and money.

"BufordTJustice, I can't begin to seperate the confusion you've inserted into your interpretations of my posts. It's a hopeless cause. "

I get it. That's code for "I'm not going to specifically rebut any of your points, I'm just going to call you a name so that I feel better." Come on bro...really? You're gonna take it there? I haven't insulted you at all...and now your most recent post is tantamount to name calling. I not going to respond to you any more on this thread after this post, for fear that this thread is gonna turn into some bullsh*t that it doesn't need to be.

I feel I've articulated my points clearly...and you disagree. I've asked you to clarify WHY you disagree and you're refusing to do that. I'm tracking.

For the record, I'm a cop and I do not have the time or the money to conduct a test like this on my own. I have no intention of doing so as I feel that it would add little to what Adam and Ethan have given to us.

"I'm sorry they didn't do the review YOU wanted done with external parametric EQ's on the subs.

I'm lying by the way... i'm not sorry the OP's didn't do the review YOU wanted. I'm glad they did the review THEY wanted. It was their time and money."


I'm not emotionally involved in our discussion...so I don't feel "sorry" or "not sorry" for anything that you or I have stated. Obviously you are emotionally invested and I'm done until you decide to cool down a few notches.

I've asked you specific questions that you have declined to answer; our discussion is over, sir.

On with the thread.....

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post #275 of 1257 Old 02-08-2011, 09:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

Is simply augmenting your existing ones an option?

Real estate is in short supply, as I'm already using a pair of P-1000 subs as MBMs along with my EXs. I suppose I could boot the P-1000s out, use the EXs as MBMs, and go with a single new sub as my true subwoofer. I would have to switch the EXs to max output and place them nearfield, and put the new sub in the far corner as per Hsu recommendation. It would be sweet to get a new sub that didn't need any help, but I don't know if such a beast exists!
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post #276 of 1257 Old 02-08-2011, 09:55 PM
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Bosso, MK, or others...

I've often wondered this, but have never gotten a scientific explanation...

If somehow it was possible to eq all of these 5 subs so they had the exact same FR response (flat) and could achieve the exact same output...

As far as sound quality goes, would they all sound exactly the same? I'm guessing they would all still have unique sounds, but if the FR response and output capabilities are the same, what scientifically would make them sound different?
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post #277 of 1257 Old 02-08-2011, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eiger View Post

I just realized I dropped the ball on you guys over in the ED thread as well. When I get some time (Just had twins a week ago), I'll post some graphs.

I have dual A7s's and was able to get a pretty damn good FR in my room with Audyssey XT alone and bypassing EQ.2. It took a lot of REW, and fixing some phase and suckout issues at my crossover, but ended up finding a really sweet spot.

Dom - You are getting some crazy SPL. What did you calibrate your mains/subs to? What's your listening distance/Sub distance?

My roll off with the duals is near 22hz and I'm not getting anything usable below that. I might be doing something wrong, however.

To keep on topic, I replied to this on the AVS eD thread...
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post #278 of 1257 Old 02-08-2011, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by floridapoolboy View Post

Having 2 guys give their subjective opinion about the sq of subs is as useful as them giving their opinions on movies, food, or which actress they think looks best. It really has very little correlation to what anyone else would think, and really only adds an additional category for comparison which can't be proved reliably. "Sub A was just as loud as sub B, but we thought it had much better SQ". Well I would rather see some ground plane measurements myself, the last thing we need is "audiophile descriptions" of sub sq!

I think your comments are so powerful, they could probably qualify you for the 2K sub comparison because they really move a ton of air

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post #279 of 1257 Old 02-08-2011, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BufordTJustice View Post

45 minutes is about normal...so there's no ding on you for that. I would hope that the attached calculator and the audioholics page on my previous post would help most people achieve much quicker results.

It actually took me about 2 or so hours to get it right...but then again, I created that eQ.2 octave calculator in the process
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post #280 of 1257 Old 02-08-2011, 10:27 PM
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Can't decide on Rythmik or HSU what do I buy?
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post #281 of 1257 Old 02-08-2011, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by kin0kin View Post

Can't decide on Rythmik or HSU what do I buy?

HSU. That thing is damn sexy...
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post #282 of 1257 Old 02-08-2011, 10:41 PM
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Excellent review guys! Thanks a ton for your efforts, it is really appreciated. I found the anticipation thread while searching for info on the Epik Empire, and have been following it with amusement. I've been looking forward to the results, and had a chance to review this thread tonight. For any sub this size, WAF is going to play a large role in my decision making process. Your group photos REALLY saved my butt here, because I was thinking of buying the Hsu with my tax refund! Here is my current opinion summary for my large room, with a 90/10 usage split between movies/TV and music:
  • Hsu - My wife vetoed it immediately based on both size and looks. The word "vomit" was used... LOL
  • CS 18.1 - Also ruled out by WAF. Maybe version 3 will be an option?
  • Epik - #1 in WAF, but it seems to have lower output below 45 Hz.
  • Rythmik - Great choice, but kind of pricey. B-stock an option?
  • eD - Based on quality control issues and some history I've ready about their company, I wasn't considering them. I might consider giving them a chance based on the price/performance ratio. This sub could sound great with some form of eq.

Again, thanks for all of the time, money, and effort you put into this shootout. You guys did a great job!
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post #283 of 1257 Old 02-08-2011, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by LS1 Sounds View Post

  • Hsu - My wife vetoed it immediately based on both size and looks. The word "vomit" was used... LOL

I wouldn't go that far, but the VTF isn't too easy on these eyes.
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post #284 of 1257 Old 02-08-2011, 10:55 PM
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My concern with HSU is the reflective surface. Though I could just cover it up with some non reflective cloth.

I wonder how the FV15HP and F25 compare. They don't cost much more than the FV15.
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post #285 of 1257 Old 02-08-2011, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

It actually took me about 2 or so hours to get it right...but then again, I created that eQ.2 octave calculator in the process

Well there you go. I feel bad for forgetting who made it. It was so valuable that I immediately saved it to my desktop. Thank you for making it...you should license it to eD.

EDIT: I amended my post to include your credit for its creation.

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post #286 of 1257 Old 02-09-2011, 01:58 AM
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Originally Posted by LS1 Sounds View Post

Excellent review guys! Thanks a ton for your efforts, it is really appreciated. I found the anticipation thread while searching for info on the Epik Empire, and have been following it with amusement. I've been looking forward to the results, and had a chance to review this thread tonight. For any sub this size, WAF is going to play a large role in my decision making process. Your group photos REALLY saved my butt here, because I was thinking of buying the Hsu with my tax refund! Here is my current opinion summary for my large room, with a 90/10 usage split between movies/TV and music:
  • Hsu - My wife vetoed it immediately based on both size and looks. The word "vomit" was used... LOL
  • CS 18.1 - Also ruled out by WAF. Maybe version 3 will be an option?
  • Epik - #1 in WAF, but it seems to have lower output below 45 Hz.
  • Rythmik - Great choice, but kind of pricey. B-stock an option?
  • eD - Based on quality control issues and some history I've ready about their company, I wasn't considering them. I might consider giving them a chance based on the price/performance ratio. This sub could sound great with some form of eq.

Again, thanks for all of the time, money, and effort you put into this shootout. You guys did a great job!

Why was the CHT ruled out via WAF? Feet? I know some say there is some issues, but I have 2 CHT Subs and my wife is big on interior decorating and when I told her that the subs I get have been said to be ugly, etc... She said as long as they perform well, go for it.

Well, they came in, she helped me unbox, she helped me remove the feet, and she even posed next to them for my "nerd sub" shot and she laughed at me for being worried about the finish. Is it the best in the industry, No. Do I sit 2 feet away and stare at the subs? No. They disappear when the lights go out (until the bass kicks in that is).

PM if you want any pictures, I think you would be surprised.

I don't have any thoughts on the rest of your list, just trying to help you out with what I know. I am no expert but these subs are really great performers and also the cabinets are being re-done by CHT and will be much improved. So wait a month or two and maybe the CHT will be more WAF.
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post #287 of 1257 Old 02-09-2011, 03:23 AM
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Originally Posted by yadfgp View Post

You guys had mentioned that the 18.1 likes to dance around unless you put something heavy on it? Is this a serious potential issue? If I were to go with this sub I would prefer to have the rack amp, oddly enough, in my rack! In fact, that's 1 thing I like the most about that sub, having an outboard amp. Also speaking of that amp, what is the deal with the light clipping all the time? Others who own this sub have mentioned this as well. Another potential issue, or just a light show?
Thanks guys!

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post #288 of 1257 Old 02-09-2011, 03:45 AM
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Originally Posted by floridapoolboy View Post

I believe in multiple subs myself, and so I keep an eye on the price as it will wind up being doubled!

Let's not overlook that a unique feature of the CS18.1 is that it can be paired with the CS18.P (passive) and viola! You have duals, less the cost of another amp. This makes the price well under double!

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post #289 of 1257 Old 02-09-2011, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

Bosso, MK, or others...

I've often wondered this, but have never gotten a scientific explanation...

If somehow it was possible to eq all of these 5 subs so they had the exact same FR response (flat) and could achieve the exact same output...

As far as sound quality goes, would they all sound exactly the same? I'm guessing they would all still have unique sounds, but if the FR response and output capabilities are the same, what scientifically would make them sound different?

You'll never get them to achieve the exact same "output" (if you mean max output, which I doubt you did but want to clarify), but if you could get them as close as possible say using an 80db sweep on REW to level match them, it would take the issue of the out of the equation to a large extent when determining SQ. You'd then be left with differences in the subs ability to reproduce SPL's at the levels they were driven at (i.e., some may hit their limits before others), differences in sound due to group delay differences, resonances, etc., etc.

I.e., some of the subs had a FR that gave them a large advantage (3 to 5db) over 50hz or so, which was likely more due to the differences in subwoofer levels than any inability for the subs to hit 105db above 50hz. So you'd get (or should perceive) more "punch/feel" from those subwoofers at that range than the others, which is more the result of the frequency response/level differences than "SQ".

What was interesting was that with certain subs, e.g., the Epik, they felt it "stood taller" than the rest and hit deeper at times, even though the responses posted didn't match it (although I guess it did seem to have the "best" response under 25hz of all the subs save the Rythmik, but given the null at 20hz or so it's tough to say). E.g. "Its funny that of all the subs this one had the lowest spl's yet on the low note of the song I felt it moved more air and had more oomph than any other sub on this particular track" or "The Empire seemed to have the most punch of the group. Not that the other's didn't have punch, its just the Empire had enough punch to make us notice it stood a little taller than the rest".

 

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post #290 of 1257 Old 02-09-2011, 07:15 AM
 
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Originally Posted by tesseract67 View Post

Let's not overlook that a unique feature of the CS18.1 is that it can be paired with the CS18.P (passive) and viola! You have duals, less the cost of another amp. This makes the price well under double!

Twin A7S-450s would have 2600 watts of total power, and cost $1600 shipped. The CHTs would have 950 total watts power, and cost close to the same shipped. Add to that the extremely rough appearance that I've seen in every picture and I have to rule them out.
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post #291 of 1257 Old 02-09-2011, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by kaotikr1 View Post

Why was the CHT ruled out via WAF? Feet? I know some say there is some issues, but I have 2 CHT Subs and my wife is big on interior decorating and when I told her that the subs I get have been said to be ugly, etc... She said as long as they perform well, go for it.

Well, they came in, she helped me unbox, she helped me remove the feet, and she even posed next to them for my "nerd sub" shot and she laughed at me for being worried about the finish. Is it the best in the industry, No. Do I sit 2 feet away and stare at the subs? No. They disappear when the lights go out (until the bass kicks in that is).

PM if you want any pictures, I think you would be surprised.

I don't have any thoughts on the rest of your list, just trying to help you out with what I know. I am no expert but these subs are really great performers and also the cabinets are being re-done by CHT and will be much improved. So wait a month or two and maybe the CHT will be more WAF.

The feet definitely didn't help, but I will have to ask her for more details on her thoughts about the CHT appearance. 1-3 months for the new version matches up well with my plans to purchase, so this may still be an option. I appreciate the offer for pictures, I will send you a PM! I hear people talking about the grill for these subs looking great, but haven't seen any pictures of it so if anyone has a link I would appreciate the reference.

We just moved into a nice, brand new house. She is very concerned about keeping the new house nice and pretty with regards to my A/V hobby, knowing that I almost always choose function over form (she already vetoed SVS cylinders too). Our home theater room is also our living room, and the only location to place a sub this size is in the corner to the right of our TV. This makes it very visible while watching TV, and also to anyone who enters our house since the living room is open to basically the entire first floor. This open floor plan is also the reason I feel that I need a large, high output subwoofer to fill the space. I currently have a Boston Acoustics PV700, ported 12".

My friend is a huge Sunfire fan and friends with Bob Carver, and he wants me to get the new Atmos 6.5" sub in the aluminum box! It looks cool and I'm sure it sounds great, but I can't imagine it providing the output and extension that I'm looking for.
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post #292 of 1257 Old 02-09-2011, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

Bosso, MK, or others...

I've often wondered this, but have never gotten a scientific explanation...

If somehow it was possible to eq all of these 5 subs so they had the exact same FR response (flat) and could achieve the exact same output...As far as sound quality goes, would they all sound exactly the same?

I'm guessing they would all still have unique sounds, but if the FR response and output capabilities are the same, what scientifically would make them sound different?

Yes.

The variables are bandwidth, compression, harmonic distortion, self noise, how the frequency response changes as listening level increases and other non linearities that wouldn't be apparent in the initial 100dB frequency response magnitude traces, all of which can be isolated as the test unfolds.


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post #293 of 1257 Old 02-09-2011, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by vitaminbass View Post

help a dumb guy keep up here: my impression was much of the testing involved increasing the sub's level untill volume didn't increase, or obvious distortion was heard. Calibration has no effect on that, right?

And...I'm not following how you would ever truly level match subs that each have their own response signature. Unless you arbitrarily picked a frequency.

It should be obvious that if one of the subs has a larger peak (and/or dip) than the others at some arbitrary slice of bandwidth, it will produce the highest (or lowest) SPL meter reading with source that centers at those slices of bandwidth, proving little more than the obvious.

Level matching with the receivers rumble tone is quite effective as the rumble tone is centered in a band (30-100 Hz) where most every sub is the same when the response is flat at the meter.

Differences below 30 Hz are what separates the subs from the not-so-subs and most affects perceptions of SQ.

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post #294 of 1257 Old 02-09-2011, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by runnin' View Post

Bosso, since you obviously have a good grasp on the subject, why don't you obtain several current model subs and do a review yourself? I'm sure it would be well appreciated, and it would only cost you the price of the subs and 40 - 50 hours, depending on how many subs you review for us.

I've been here for nearly 9 years. In the beginning, there was no separate forum for DIY. I've built some 60 subwoofers and measured and commented on them (and several commercial subwoofers) and the physics and theory of LF reproduction extensively over that period.

The price of the subs and time spent designing, purchasing the parts, building, testing and posting, though it exceeds this shootout buy magnitudes, was just a part of my hobby, but I appreciate the suggestion that I do more for you.

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post #295 of 1257 Old 02-09-2011, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by oddiodog View Post
Please correct or clarify.

It sounds like what you're saying simplified, is that what they were hearing is the effects their room had on each sub the way they were EQ'd meaning not necessarily on a lateral scale. And not what each sub is capable of - laterally.

And that regarding SQ description, you are essentially saying that because they were not set-up on an even plane, ranking one sub tighter or cleaner than another on the whole isn't necessarily true?

And that if each was set-up to their best potential with for example an AS-EQ1 Subwoofer EQ, there could have been a different outcome on not only SPL and FR but also the articulation and tightness of each sub?

I'm just trying to understand. This is certainly an important notion if true, and should be known.

And I'm not suggesting the bros claimed any of this. They reported the findings in their room the way they intended. And regardless of this being true or not I learned a lot about these subs and companies in a way that has never been done before, and kind of experienced that fun purchase with them. Thankfully not the re-packaging.
To be clear, I didn't mention EQ in my post. Subwoofers are not plug and play audio hardware. The first step in setting one up is to change the subs and/or the listening positions location, followed by distance/phase correction and level matching. PEQ is the last step and should be used minimally for optimal performance.

To illustrate my point, I posted a graph of the same exercise that I conducted, although the exercise I conducted was not intended to compare the SQ and peak SPL differences.



Now, imagine that I posted subjective comments and peak SPL meter readings of these 3 subwoofers using the same music and movie snapshots as were used in this shootout.

The problem is that the different frequency responses are of the same subwoofer. Since frequency response is what we hear and what the rumble tone produces and what the meter reads, I would have posted a completely different set of subjective comments and peak meter readings describing the same subwoofer.

Although it's a worthwhile exercise that I've conducted many times, it explains how a room influences what we hear and what can be done about that. Most people believe that this is a very important aspect of optimal performance when using any subwoofer.

That debate aside, using only the first plug and play response to evaluate the subwoofer would certainly not tell someone who reads the evaluation how the subwoofer might sound in his room or vs another subwoofer.

Bosso
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post #296 of 1257 Old 02-09-2011, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by floridapoolboy

Twin A7S-450s would have 2600 watts of total power, and cost $1600 shipped. The CHTs would have 950 total watts power, and cost close to the same shipped. Add to that the extremely rough appearance that I've seen in every picture and I have to rule them out.
You just don't quit huh? "extremely rough". Give me a break.

You hate the subs. You don't give them a fair shot. We get it. Take a deep Breath and let the anger go man. We all know how you feel you make sure of it.

Look how EXTREMELY ROUGH this is?

http://gallery.me.com/chrisdlind/100187/IMG_3009

Also how many watts will you have when the amps fail?

I have read a lot about the eD amps going out, are they true, who knows, if I took your stance I would be sure to mention the amps failing in every thread possible.
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post #297 of 1257 Old 02-09-2011, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by kaotikr1 View Post
you just don't quit huh? "extremely rough". Give me a break.

You hate the subs. You don't give them a fair shot. We get it. Take a deep breath and let the anger go man. We all know how you feel you make sure of it.

Look how extremely rough this is?

http://gallery.me.com/chrisdlind/100187/img_3009

also how many watts will you have when the amps fail?

i have read a lot about the ed amps going out, are they true, who knows, if i took your stance i would be sure to mention the amps failing in every thread possible.

+1

Panasonic P60ST50-Yamaha RX-V467 receiver-Sony PS3-Velodyne SMS-1-Canton 430 mains, 455 center and 402 surrounds-Rythmik FV15HP subwoofer- Pro-ject Debut III turntable- I also have a pair of Mark K's DIY design, the ER18DXT's
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post #298 of 1257 Old 02-09-2011, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by kaotikr1 View Post
You just don't quit huh? "extremely rough". Give me a break.

You hate the subs. You don't give them a fair shot. We get it. Take a deep Breath and let the anger go man. We all know how you feel you make sure of it.

Look how EXTREMELY ROUGH this is?

http://gallery.me.com/chrisdlind/100187/IMG_3009

Also how many watts will you have when the amps fail?

I have read a lot about the eD amps going out, are they true, who knows, if I took your stance I would be sure to mention the amps failing in every thread possible.
Although I agree with your sentiments I think your link is a poor example. The next two pictures in the gallery are what some would consider large defects in the finish Love your computer setup by the way
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post #299 of 1257 Old 02-09-2011, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by lennon_68 View Post
Although I agree with your sentiments I think your link is a poor example. The next two pictures in the gallery are what some would consider large defects in the finish Love your computer setup by the way
Yeah, I thought I was missing something with the comment. However, adding a female to the picture did suddenly eliminate any "roughness" in the sub.

 

My DIY Subs ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1233892

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post #300 of 1257 Old 02-09-2011, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by floridapoolboy View Post
Twin A7S-450s would have 2600 watts of total power, and cost $1600 shipped. The CHTs would have 950 total watts power, and cost close to the same shipped. Add to that the extremely rough appearance that I've seen in every picture and I have to rule them out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaotikr1 View Post
You just don't quit huh? "extremely rough". Give me a break.

You hate the subs. You don't give them a fair shot. We get it. Take a deep Breath and let the anger go man. We all know how you feel you make sure of it.

Look how EXTREMELY ROUGH this is?

http://gallery.me.com/chrisdlind/100187/IMG_3009

Also how many watts will you have when the amps fail?

I have read a lot about the eD amps going out, are they true, who knows, if I took your stance I would be sure to mention the amps failing in every thread possible.
Bashing ID manufacturers is so 2010...

Let's not pollute this thread please...
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