SHOOTOUT! Epik Empire vs HSU VTF-15H vs CHT CS18.1 vs Rythmik FV15 vs eD A7s-450 - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 1257 Old 02-24-2011, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Rijax View Post

if I may, I would like to set the record straight. Tesseract is not, and has never been, "on the payroll" of Chase Home Theater or the Chase Home Theater forum. He was a voluteer moderator at the forum.

When we recently upgraded the forum software, the moderators inadvertently lost their moderation powers and permissions. I have not talked to Tesseract, but perhaps he thought it would be wise to remove his signature since he no longer had moderation powers.

Tesseract , if you would like to resume your position as a volunteer moderator, plese contact us. You will be most welcome to do so.

That make sense, Thanks Rijax. On another note while you are here, you guys (CHT) were all over home theater shack forums a few weeks back in some kind of pseudo-official arrangement and seem to have disappeared from that site with only a few survivors- what happened? Or am I misremembering some announcement about a big move for CHT to the HTS forum and that never happened?

the details may be muddled in my brain..
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post #632 of 1257 Old 02-24-2011, 11:53 AM
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I didn't realize a couple visible nail holes could turn so many people away from a great product.
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post #633 of 1257 Old 02-24-2011, 12:03 PM
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Rijax - What did happpen with Home Theater Shack sponsering Chase Home Theater? Did the love fest end up in a divorce?
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post #634 of 1257 Old 02-24-2011, 01:28 PM
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Both parties realized that CHT needed its own forum. No biggie.

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post #635 of 1257 Old 02-24-2011, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rijax View Post

if I may, I would like to set the record straight. Tesseract is not, and has never been, "on the payroll" of Chase Home Theater or the Chase Home Theater forum. He was a voluteer moderator at the forum.

When we recently upgraded the forum software, the moderators inadvertently lost their moderation powers and permissions. I have not talked to Tesseract, but perhaps he thought it would be wise to remove his signature since he no longer had moderation powers.

Tesseract , if you would like to resume your position as a volunteer moderator, plese contact us. You will be most welcome to do so.

This is correct, thanks, Rijax.

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post #636 of 1257 Old 02-24-2011, 01:39 PM
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Someone else's question has me interested....

For anyone that has dual A7S-450s do you Eq each sub separately?

You would need a receiver with more than 1 subout to take advantage of that right? Unless you have Audyssey/AVR Eq program shut off?

Just wondering, I have the Onkyo NR1007 and am using sub1 for my 18.T (since there is one amp). Sub2 is currently not used but I'm debating whether to add another sub down the road/nearfield/even the room response out even more....
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post #637 of 1257 Old 02-24-2011, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by floridapoolboy View Post

OK, I recognize internet marketing when I see it. "I was assured by several people who own the 18.t"... really? Twin A7S-450s with 2600 watts of power, nice fit and finish, and a good professional review for $1600 shipped versus twin CHTs with 950 watts of power, no pro reviews (but lots of hype) and as reported, marginal build quality for $1445 with a free pair of discontinued speakers, I know which I would choose. Add to that people showing up out of the woodwork at the same time as this review to claim it sold them on the product and I start to suspect internet collusion. People dropping their association with the company from their sig while touting the product, etc., doesn't add confidence. Watch out, I think you're being played, folks!


No Internet marketing whatsoever, Dear Florida Pool Toy, the answer is pretty simple ... the CHT drivers are 8 ohm drivers, and the Dayton amp works very well with two 8 ohm drivers in parallel, as this makes it a nominal 4 ohm load.

Some believe separate amps offer more flexibility in terms of phase, but since the Dayton amp offers continuously variable phase to the eD's switchable to 0 or 180 degrees, I consider it to be a wash between the two.

The Dayton amp also offers a built in parametric eq as standard equipment.
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post #638 of 1257 Old 02-24-2011, 02:25 PM
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That is kind of funny....

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Sorta like....Decepticons, Mobilize!


Seriously though about my earlier Eq question, will 2 amps really make separate located subs better? Or is that more a question of if you are using Audyssey/AVR Eq or not?
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post #639 of 1257 Old 02-24-2011, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post
That is kind of funny....

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Sorta like....Decepticons, Mobilize!


Seriously though about my earlier Eq question, will 2 amps really make separate located subs better? Or is that more a question of if you are using Audyssey/AVR Eq or not?
Now need to filter the s/n ratio :-)
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post #640 of 1257 Old 02-24-2011, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post
Seriously though about my earlier Eq question, will 2 amps really make separate located subs better? Or is that more a question of if you are using Audyssey/AVR Eq or not?
2 discrete amp channels (either via separate amps, or a 2-channel amp with independent gain controls) will make separately located subs "better" in their room, IMHO. It's not necessarily an EQ thing, although independent EQ controls for each sub is also "better" - and doesn't mean it has to be built into the AVR, as there are many outboard EQ options that exist.

Hope that helps.
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post #641 of 1257 Old 02-24-2011, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by a/v HD fan View Post

2 discrete amp channels (either via separate amps, or a 2-channel amp with independent gain controls) will make separately located subs "better" in their room, IMHO. It's not necessarily an EQ thing, although independent EQ controls for each sub is also "better" - and doesn't mean it has to be built into the AVR, as there are many outboard EQ options that exist.

Hope that helps.

There are some that believe in gain matching for subs. A single amp in that instance would be "better" than independent gain controls.
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post #642 of 1257 Old 02-24-2011, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

There are some that believe in gain matching for subs. A single amp in that instance would be "better" than independent gain controls.

While the first part is true, I believe your subsequent conclusion to be incorrect. A single amp channel could be equal to, but never better than, two amp channels when driving two passive speakers.

Two amp channels could be gain matched, or the subs could be level matched. One amp signal driving two identical passive speakers is inherently gain matched, but not level matched unless colocated, or placed equidistant from LP in a symmetrical room, AFAIK.

Bottomline, having two amp channels yields flexibility that one does not have with one amp channel. One cannot be "better" than two in this case, unless I'm missing something really obvious (hey, it's happened before).
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post #643 of 1257 Old 02-24-2011, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a/v HD fan View Post

Bottomline, having two amp channels yields flexibility that one does not have with one amp channel. One cannot be "better" than two in this case, unless I'm missing something really obvious (hey, it's happened before).

It is true that having two different amps lends a flexibility that one cannot. But if you do desire precise gain matching, parametric EQ, subsonic filter, continuously variable phase control and a high pass filter, it can become advantageous to pick the one amp that offers these.

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post #644 of 1257 Old 02-24-2011, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by tesseract67 View Post

It is true that having two different amps lends a flexibility that one cannot. But if you do desire precise gain matching, parametric EQ, subsonic filter, continuously variable phase control and a high pass filter, it can become advantageous to pick the one amp that offers these.

What is the advantage of subs being gain matched but not necessarily level matched at the listening position?
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post #645 of 1257 Old 02-25-2011, 05:18 AM
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Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

What is the advantage of subs being gain matched but not necessarily level matched at the listening position?

I'm not a proponent of gain matching. However, there are those on this forum that argue it can be a superior solution to level matching of multiple subs. Here's one link to get you started if you're interested http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=gain+matching
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post #646 of 1257 Old 02-25-2011, 06:14 AM
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Are we talking level matching at the listening position or matching the level out of the sub? If you match LP level, unless the two are very close you will sacrifice headroom as one sub maxes out before the other.
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post #647 of 1257 Old 02-25-2011, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by a/v HD fan View Post

One cannot be "better" than two in this case, unless I'm missing something really obvious (hey, it's happened before).

The only thing there is if you have an amp that puts out more total watts running both subs parallel in bridged vs. on separate channels. Not sure if that's the case with the Dayton but it is that way with some pro audio amps.
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post #648 of 1257 Old 02-25-2011, 06:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a/v HD fan View Post


While the first part is true, I believe your subsequent conclusion to be incorrect. A single amp channel could be equal to, but never better than, two amp channels when driving two passive speakers.

Two amp channels could be gain matched, or the subs could be level matched. One amp signal driving two identical passive speakers is inherently gain matched, but not level matched unless colocated, or placed equidistant from LP in a symmetrical room, AFAIK.

Bottomline, having two amp channels yields flexibility that one does not have with one amp channel. One cannot be "better" than two in this case, unless I'm missing something really obvious (hey, it's happened before).

If all you want to do is gain match, individual gain controls introduces the entirely unnecessary step of close mic'ing the two subs every time you want to change the gain. That's why I said one amp might be "better" for gain matchers. Besides, you can always add an amp in the future if you decide gain matching isn't working in your room. At least that's what I did.
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post #649 of 1257 Old 02-25-2011, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Rijax View Post

Both parties realized that CHT needed its own forum. No biggie.

After only 2 weeks and all the fanfare from both sides announcing the arrangement with warm fuzzies?!?!?

This went south faster than Tiger Woods' marriage.


Come on, spill! Inquiring minds want to know! Who hit who with the golf club, and why?!?!
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Lets get back on topic please...

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post #651 of 1257 Old 02-25-2011, 05:41 PM
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post #652 of 1257 Old 02-26-2011, 08:59 AM
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Anyone have any experience with the original CS18.1 sub? There is very little info on the Chase website. About all I could gather is that it has the same 18" driver in a sealed box. Built in plate amp instead of external? front firing with grill instead of downfiring with the(ugly) legs? Would the built in amp help alleviate the lack of mass issue? Is the performance equal to the series 2? Is it really ugly, or just plain. I currently have my HSU 2.3 colocated next to my sofa to maximize its punch. It's in my 12' x 20' den with cathedral ceilings varying from 8' to 10' so call it 9' ==> 2160 cubic feet? Problem is there is a door opening to the kitchen so the room is not sealed. Would installing a door to seal the room help? Or would upgrading to a bigger/better sub be more beneficial? Maybe both? The 2nd advantage of adding the door is that less sound would go into the rest of the house while really enjoying the system.
I know the series 2 is easier to upgrade to duals at much lower cost, but that will be difficult space wise, & cost prohibitive. Also the original is being discounted to $650 + $90 shipping. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!
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post #653 of 1257 Old 02-26-2011, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottfox View Post

Anyone have any experience with the original CS18.1 sub? There is very little info on the Chase website. About all I could gather is that it has the same 18" driver in a sealed box. Built in plate amp instead of external? front firing with grill instead of downfiring with the(ugly) legs? Would the built in amp help alleviate the lack of mass issue? Is the performance equal to the series 2? Is it really ugly, or just plain. I currently have my HSU 2.3 colocated next to my sofa to maximize its punch. It's in my 12' x 20' den with cathedral ceilings varying from 8' to 10' so call it 9' ==> 2160 cubic feet? Problem is there is a door opening to the kitchen so the room is not sealed. Would installing a door to seal the room help? Or would upgrading to a bigger/better sub be more beneficial? Maybe both? The 2nd advantage of adding the door is that less sound would go into the rest of the house while really enjoying the system.
I know the series 2 is easier to upgrade to duals at much lower cost, but that will be difficult space wise, & cost prohibitive. Also the original is being discounted to $650 + $90 shipping. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!


Link to a discussion/review of Series 1 vs Series 2 CS-18.1..

http://www.chasehometheater.com/foru...ead.php?t=3948
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post #654 of 1257 Old 02-26-2011, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Scottfox View Post

Anyone have any experience with the original CS18.1 sub? There is very little info on the Chase website. About all I could gather is that it has the same 18" driver in a sealed box. Built in plate amp instead of external? front firing with grill instead of downfiring with the(ugly) legs? Would the built in amp help alleviate the lack of mass issue? Is the performance equal to the series 2? Is it really ugly, or just plain. I currently have my HSU 2.3 colocated next to my sofa to maximize its punch. It's in my 12' x 20' den with cathedral ceilings varying from 8' to 10' so call it 9' ==> 2160 cubic feet? Problem is there is a door opening to the kitchen so the room is not sealed. Would installing a door to seal the room help? Or would upgrading to a bigger/better sub be more beneficial? Maybe both? The 2nd advantage of adding the door is that less sound would go into the rest of the house while really enjoying the system.
I know the series 2 is easier to upgrade to duals at much lower cost, but that will be difficult space wise, & cost prohibitive. Also the original is being discounted to $650 + $90 shipping. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

I have a Series 1 and my room dimensions are similar to yours but entirely open on one end. Needless to say I am very well pleased with the sub. My LP is across the room about 9' away and I get enough base to make my pant's leg vibrate along with a good thump in the chest. Fit and finish was not a high priority since I felt I was getting a good deal. I'll be getting another one when I can save up the dough.
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post #655 of 1257 Old 02-26-2011, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottfox View Post

Anyone have any experience with the original CS18.1 sub? There is very little info on the Chase website. About all I could gather is that it has the same 18" driver in a sealed box. Built in plate amp instead of external? front firing with grill instead of downfiring with the(ugly) legs? Would the built in amp help alleviate the lack of mass issue? Is the performance equal to the series 2? Is it really ugly, or just plain. I currently have my HSU 2.3 colocated next to my sofa to maximize its punch. It's in my 12' x 20' den with cathedral ceilings varying from 8' to 10' so call it 9' ==> 2160 cubic feet? Problem is there is a door opening to the kitchen so the room is not sealed. Would installing a door to seal the room help? Or would upgrading to a bigger/better sub be more beneficial? Maybe both? The 2nd advantage of adding the door is that less sound would go into the rest of the house while really enjoying the system.
I know the series 2 is easier to upgrade to duals at much lower cost, but that will be difficult space wise, & cost prohibitive. Also the original is being discounted to $650 + $90 shipping. Any thoughts would be greatly apprleciated!

I'll try and answer your questions without trying to force my opinions on you. A decision about the value of appearance is something you will have to decide on your own. Some of us might "barf" just at the thought of dropping an extra $200-$300 on a "better" looking sub.

I bought a CS18.1 series 1 a few weeks ago and it sounds fantastic. It's temporarily set up in our master bedroom while I finish our basement. In a room that is certainly not build for acoustics it sounds great. Like you, I heard a vocal few on AVS knocking its looks. I agree with the feet. I personally didn't like them at all, which is the main reason I got the version 1. However, when my I showed my wife the sub and tried to coax a reaction out of ther about the finish... her response was basically "what's the problem with it?" On the other hand, when she heard Transformers running through it, she said it sounded great... and she is never one to comment on that sort of thing. I think your choice of the word "plain" is perfect. It isn't going to garner any awards on appearance and it isn't going to be an eyesore either. Most of my buddies are going to be more impressed by the raw power of it than if I were to put a shiny paint job on it.

On the technical side, I'd just give Craig a call or drop him an email. I've been incredibly impressed by him and his staff immediate responses to my questions. In fact, I told him the reason I purchased from him was his excellent customer service. In regards to the other subs in this shootout, I've never heard them but would venture a guess the vast majority of the population would be very happy with any of them. Let me tell you, it just feels so much better to have made the decision instead of agonizing over every last detail.
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post #656 of 1257 Old 02-26-2011, 06:59 PM
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Customer service? Have you read the CHT disaster thread???

No he said he dealt with Craig personally. But like many CHT bashers, first-hand knowledge, facts or any actual experience is not really your strength. You'd rather point to the threads where you bash CHT as proof CHT is Pure Evil.

PE if you want to sing the praises of your A7s-450, that is fine and certainly acceptable. But I'm asking you and other guys who want to jump on this thread just to bash CHT or any of these companies to leave the thread.

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I
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post #657 of 1257 Old 02-26-2011, 07:07 PM
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pe if you want to sing the praises of your a7s-450, that is fine and certainly acceptable. But i'm asking you and other guys who want to jump on this thread just to bash cht or any of these companies to leave the thread.

+1,000
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post #658 of 1257 Old 02-26-2011, 10:59 PM
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Scottfox I have had an 18.1 for about 6 months now without any issues, and as others have mentioned it looks plain, but blends in just fine in a home theater setting. It has a flat black paint job on it so it doesn't glare or reflect and unless you are staring at it in direct sunlight from 2 feet way or closer there is nothing noticeable to see. As others have mentioned it has plenty of power and has no problems shaking the room a bit either all while maintaining great sound quality.
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post #659 of 1257 Old 02-27-2011, 01:20 AM
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Originally Posted by below90hz

No he said he dealt with Craig personally. But like many CHT bashers, first-hand knowledge, facts or any actual experience is not really your strength. You'd rather point to the threads where you bash CHT as proof CHT is Pure Evil.

PE if you want to sing the praises of your A7s-450, that is fine and certainly acceptable. But I'm asking you and other guys who want to jump on this thread just to bash CHT or any of these companies to leave the thread.
I had a terrible experience with Paradigm customer service when I owned their Signature speakers, but I'm not trolling the Paradigm thread posting negative comments everytime an owner wants to share his positive experience with that brand. I posted my dissatisfaction and moved on.

PE, get over it...
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post #660 of 1257 Old 02-27-2011, 09:09 AM
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Posts removed. Any more posts not about these specific subs will get you removed.

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