SHOOTOUT! Epik Empire vs HSU VTF-15H vs CHT CS18.1 vs Rythmik FV15 vs eD A7s-450 - Page 31 - AVS Forum
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post #901 of 1241 Old 03-25-2011, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr_jitsu View Post

Hey guys,

I bought a pair of CHT18.2's.....but I just noticed that the Epics are on sale for $799 shipped.

Think I should add an Epic to the Mix?

I have an Onkyo TX NR3008, Emo XPA-5, Klipsch RF7 mains, RC 64 center, RF 82 wides, RF 52 rear wides and RB 51 surrounds.

What happened to your 18.T's? (that's what you originally bought, correct?)
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post #902 of 1241 Old 03-25-2011, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_jitsu View Post

Hey guys,

I bought a pair of CHT18.2's.....but I just noticed that the Epics are on sale for $799 shipped.

Think I should add an Epic to the Mix?

I have an Onkyo TX NR3008, Emo XPA-5, Klipsch RF7 mains, RC 64 center, RF 82 wides, RF 52 rear wides and RB 51 surrounds.

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Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

What happened to your 18.T's? (that's what you originally bought, correct?)

I'm going with he wants to add them to the 18.T's he already has.

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post #903 of 1241 Old 03-25-2011, 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Matman1970 View Post

I'm going with he wants to add them to the 18.T's he already has.

I was referring to this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_jitsu View Post

Hey guys,

I bought a pair of CHT18.2's.....

18.2's are different then 18.T's right?
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post #904 of 1241 Old 03-25-2011, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

I was referring to this:



18.2's are different then 18.T's right?

Yes...You got me The .1 .2 and .Ts getting thrown around got me tripped up.

Now I am curious too....maybe he meant 18.T Series 2..not sure...I think I need a bingo card to keep track of all the companies and their multiple model numbers.

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post #905 of 1241 Old 03-25-2011, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Matman1970 View Post

You got me The .1 .2 and .Ts getting thrown around got me tripped up.

Now I am curious too....

Maybe it references the leg styles?
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post #906 of 1241 Old 03-25-2011, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

What happened to your 18.T's? (that's what you originally bought, correct?)

I still have them and like them. Just for $799 I was thinking of adding the Epic.

I calculated my shipping (entered my state and zip code) and it kept coming back at $799. It was not until I actually tried to check out that the $139 shipping charge was added on.
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post #907 of 1241 Old 03-25-2011, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by sputter1 View Post

Maybe it references the leg styles?

That would be the 18.T Vintage 1954 Leg Edition. Just like the postage stamps with the up-side down plane, these things will be worth big bucks in about 10 years.

Believe it or not, they actually blend pretty good on my Dad's hardwood floor so no worries here.

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post #908 of 1241 Old 03-25-2011, 07:20 AM
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Yes, I have 2 18.1 series 2 otherwise called 18.T with the iconic brown legs
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post #909 of 1241 Old 03-25-2011, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_jitsu View Post

Yes, I have 2 18.1 series 2 otherwise called 18.T with the iconic brown legs

So do you have the 18.T and the 2 18.2's in the same room?
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post #910 of 1241 Old 03-25-2011, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

So do you have the 18.T and the 2 18.2's in the same room?

No, just the 18.T (2 18 inch subs run off one 1000 watt amp)
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post #911 of 1241 Old 03-25-2011, 12:06 PM
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Apparently I'm not the only one that has had trouble deciphering this year's and last year's CHT sub models. Guess it's par for the course for a new guy try to research anything and all things subwoofer.
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post #912 of 1241 Old 03-25-2011, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by mphfrom77 View Post

Apparently I'm not the only one that has had trouble deciphering this year's and last year's CHT sub models. Guess it's par for the course for a new guy try to research anything and all things subwoofer.

No matter what the number designation, the existing 2011 models start with SS while the 2010 models start with CS

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post #913 of 1241 Old 03-25-2011, 12:49 PM
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I just wanted to take a moment to say thanks to all who have posted in this thread and the things I have learned as well as the entertaining verbal gymnastics. I enjoy it all. Whether in the heat of it or from behind the screen.

I tried to give back earlier by sharing my experience with specific power and IC cable suggestions but that didn't go over as well as I had hoped. So in another attempt to give back I hope this helps for some of you reading (I apologize in advance to the more knowledgeable):

Getting the most out of your subs with Audyysey:

Originally I joined this thread with interest in getting dual subs of this price range to replace my more expensive PB13 because I felt the sound in my room wasn't very good (not tight and had 2 lulls) in it's limited placement options and after trying many things assumed having dual smaller subs would fix the issues.

Then as I was reading through here and jumping around the AVS forum I stumbled upon a thread with specific instructions on how to set-up and run Audyssey on a processor. - PROPERLY.

It made a BIG difference and FIXED my issues. MUCH tighter base. I no longer detect obvious lulls. And the base doesn't overpower or isn't heard when it shouldn't. A punch to the stomach shouldn't sound or feel similar to a monster foot stomp. Also as a much appreciated bonus, the surround field has also stepped up. (It was already really good after all my tinkering, but has just improved further.

So as much as I would still love to try all of these subs, need has been replaced by desire.

The problem for novices and newbies (or even myself who since building 2 theaters that I think look and sound professional no longer consider myself a novice) is that instructions either on paper or in these threads are missing key information that increases the likely hood of failure.

An extreme example is someone who posts as a supposed helpful response like, "go diy, beats the snot out of any sub for the money". I find that almost completely unhelpful. It may be true if you know where to buy everything and which woofer to match with which amp and what size box to build with what wood, how much bracing, what kind of feet, down firing vs forward, what wiring, how to wire, insulation type, how much insulation, building a grill, grill cloth, how to affix the cloth, how to affix the grill, etc etc. Then one has to know how to set-up the slopes or something. I think. I don't imagine it's plug and play. Or which kits even would be helpful. You get the point.

In the Audyssey case we are informed that we need to take measurements from the seats. And which one to do first. That's about it. Since mics don't float, how? Hold it, sit in the seat with it on your head? Where do I go? Sit it on a mini tripod in the chair? I can't leave the room it makes noise that interferes as it starts to quick. I don't want to be in the way either. I've read I should leave the projector on as that's how you watch movies.

So without proper instructions I have always rested the mic on each sitting position chair back and lied down in front. And I leave the projector on. In the end I found it sounded a bit better for all other positions but didn't sound as good in the main seating position as opposed to measuring it once (or repeated 3 times) in the main seating position only. So for the last 3 years I've just measured from one seat back.

Well all of that is wrong. Setting it up properly is fully explained very well in the following link:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...95421&page=191

Using a type of extendable tripod behind the seats extending in front of the seat, with the projector off and placing it in the positions in front and around the seating area as opposed to in each seat seemed to work wonders. (I imagine one could make some sort of diy wood extension or extendable tripod to put behind the seats rather than go out and buy one. I happen to have one from my photography business.)

Sorry if this is boring or redundant for many of you. For me, as someone who has never seen proper and specific instruction and diagrams covering all "assumed" information, it has made a big difference. I feel all who have payed for Audyysey should have the pleasure of using it properly to at least get their base and surround field to a great starting point.

I will point out as mentioned in the guide, that I did at first think it sounded less impactful. The base was clearly tighter along with a fuller surround field, but with the sub not going off all the time, and when it's not supposed to I thought something was missing. But as suggested I gave it a few days. And in that time I have learned to appreciate not having the sub pounding where it shouldn't. And when it does go off, it's awesome. Like it used to be in my bigger theater with better acoustic treatments. I don't miss it as much anymore.

So, thanks everyone for all your input and comments and to the brothers for inventing a new avenue for testing subs. You also have filled in blanks other reviewers ignore or only touch on at best. And if there's anything I have learned in all this it's that a sub can sound all kinds of different depending how you set-it up. It's like having many different subs. Not to mention having ports as options. But regardless of the testing methodology you have learned about and the importance of room effects on a sub, I'm sure everyone would have asked which sounded better to you in your room anyway. And still do.

Man, I can be long winded. Must be my desire to fill in the blanks.
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post #914 of 1241 Old 03-25-2011, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oddiodog View Post

I will point out as mentioned in the guide, that I did at first think it sounded less impactful. The base was clearly tighter along with a fuller surround field, but with the sub not going off all the time, and when it's not supposed to I thought something was missing. But as suggested I gave it a few days. And in that time I have learned to appreciate not having the sub pounding where it shouldn't. And when it does go off, it's awesome. Like it used to be in my bigger theater with better acoustic treatments. I don't miss it as much anymore.

After getting the DCX 2496 hooked up and finding the best spot for the subs (CHT 18.T) as well as re-running Audyssey, I didn't have that crazy mid bass kick that I was used to. Or so I thought.

My low end is now there and in force. Once I figured out that to really get my system cranking I had to listen in the range from -10 to -5 from reference.

I can't explain enough to people who haven't had the luck of having an EQ guy (desertdome) living next door how more amazing the whole experience and sound is when proper EQ is done.

Now it is amazing. TRON: Legacy blew me away last night. Everything seems more well connected and smooth. Can't wait until I get treatments up to see how it really "should" sound.
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post #915 of 1241 Old 03-25-2011, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Rijax View Post

There is debate about this. Personally, I agree with Ethan Winter of Real Traps. YMMV.

THE ANALOG VERSUS DIGITAL DEBATE
No, not that debate! At various times, Radio Shack has offered two meter types - analog and digital - which refers only to the display. I prefer the digital version for one important reason: When used at the Slow setting to average sound levels that vary rapidly over time, it's a lot easier to read the digital display because it is steadier. Let's take a closer look.

When using an SPL meter to calibrate loudspeaker levels, you can use either static sine waves or pink noise as the test signal. Sine wave test signals for level adjustment are usually 1 KHz, which is the center of the midrange. In this case the SPL meter will display a single number that corresponds to the volume received by its microphone. Because the tone's level is constant, there's no need to average readings over time. However, using sine waves is not a good choice for matching loudspeaker levels because they cause standing waves in the room. Standing waves create peaks and deep nulls in the frequency response that are highly positional.

If you play a 1 KHz sine wave and note the level on the meter, then move the meter only a few inches, the level will likely be very different. Room acoustic treatment - especially absorption at the first reflection points - reduces the change in volume at different nearby locations but doesn't avoid it completely. Therefore, a much better signal source for matching loudspeaker levels is pink noise, which contains multiple frequencies. If the SPL meter's microphone happens to be in a null location for 1 KHz, a nearby frequency, such as 1.1 KHz or 912 Hz, will not be in the same physical null. Therefore, the big advantage of pink noise is its inherent averaging of volume level versus frequency. Taken as a whole, the measured volume will be fairly accurate. Top

Pink noise contains all frequencies and sounds like tape hiss. Unlike white noise that contains equal energy at every frequency, pink noise contains equal energy per octave. Technically, pink noise is filtered to have less treble, falling off at a rate of 3 dB per octave. So with white noise, the range 100 to 200 Hz has the same energy as the range 10,000 to 10,100 Hz. With pink noise, the range 100 to 200 Hz has the same energy as the range from 10,000 to 20,000 Hz.

Pink noise is less irritating to listen to than white noise, and you can also play a pink noise test signal much louder without risk of damage to your tweeters. The Digital Video Essentials DVD that I mentioned earlier takes this one step further and filters the pink noise to contain only midrange frequencies. The bass response in most domestic-size rooms varies wildly with position - much more than in the midrange - so filtering the noise ensures more consistent and reliable readings when used for matching loudspeaker levels.

While pink noise is better overall for loudspeaker level matching than individual sine waves, there is one drawback: Because noise is by definition random, the volume constantly fluctuates both overall and at each frequency. So when viewed on a conventional signal meter, such as the VU meter in a cassette deck, the needle dances around making it difficult to read. The variance is typically several dB, though it can be 8 dB or even more at very low frequencies. So it might display 80 dB for a moment, then 77 dB, then 84 dB, and so forth. To get the true picture, you need to watch the meter carefully for ten seconds or even longer and mentally average all the numbers. And this is why I prefer the Radio Shack's digital SPL meter over the older analog model. The digital meter does a better job of averaging the variations over time.

thank you for posting this info.
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post #916 of 1241 Old 03-25-2011, 10:17 PM
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You are most welcome.

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post #917 of 1241 Old 03-26-2011, 04:12 PM
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So after a few months of reading reviews and such, i need a few last opinions based on the points below:

- live in apartment building, house not on horizon
- 5.0 polk RTiA setup with marantz receiver
- must choose between HSU 15 / rythmik fv15hp / any svs
- max 2k budget, preferably taxes in
- 70% movies / 30% music

Hsu
- shipped no tax quote at 1100
- good fun transference / bad due to neighbours?

Rythmik
- shipped no tax 1450
- better sq possibly than the others, but maybe too controlled due to servo? When i watch movies i want to feel optimus prime exploding the living crap out of my couch, or have the ability to do so

Svs
- local retailer / shipping money can go into better quality sub or stay in my
pocket
- the 12 inch vented roughly 1500 pre tax / 13 ultra at 1900

I can but dont want to spend needlessly for something overkill i cant use, but
when i do watch my blurays, action movies or concerts, i want to make sure
its the best quality i can get.
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post #918 of 1241 Old 03-26-2011, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buggy166 View Post

So after a few months of reading reviews and such, i need a few last opinions based on the points below:

- live in apartment building, house not on horizon
- 5.0 polk RTiA setup with marantz receiver
- must choose between HSU 15 / rythmik fv15hp / any svs
- max 2k budget, preferably taxes in
- 70% movies / 30% music

Hsu
- shipped no tax quote at 1100
- good fun transference / bad due to neighbours?

Rythmik
- shipped no tax 1450
- better sq possibly than the others, but maybe too controlled due to servo? When i watch movies i want to feel optimus prime exploding the living crap out of my couch, or have the ability to do so

Svs
- local retailer / shipping money can go into better quality sub or stay in my
pocket
- the 12 inch vented roughly 1500 pre tax / 13 ultra at 1900

I can but dont want to spend needlessly for something overkill i cant use, but
when i do watch my blurays, action movies or concerts, i want to make sure
its the best quality i can get.

While those are all quality products I hope you have REALLY understanding neighbors because any of those subs will be an apartment nightmare for other tenants.
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post #919 of 1241 Old 03-26-2011, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uni_panther View Post

While those are all quality products I hope you have REALLY understanding neighbors because any of those subs will be an apartment nightmare for other tenants.

I agree, these subs are not for apartments. I listen at ~-18 with my hsu and the wife in bed 2 floors up. Any more than that is trouble. I had a velo 12 in a condo and it was plenty and I couldn't use its max there. Maybe something like an emotiva 12 until you move into a place away from others.
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post #920 of 1241 Old 03-26-2011, 05:12 PM
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For anyone interested here are some novice frequency response graphs made using omnimic equipment (compliments of Luke Kamp spending an afternoon at my place) for a pair of the Jamo D7 subs that are on closeout at vanns for $600 currently and $500 a couple weeks ago.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1321789&page=3 - post 85

Ethan and Adam, you guys should pick up that omnimic for your next shootout. It's about $300 but sure seemed to make life easy in getting measurements. It's all updated realtime, bass decay, spl levels - average, max, min, frequency response graphs. It's pretty darn cool to listen to your favorite music and watch very detailed bar charts in realtime of what frequencies are being reproduced with each note. You can graph frequency responses till your heart's content and then overlay everything.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
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post #921 of 1241 Old 03-26-2011, 08:22 PM
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I agree, these subs are not for apartments. I listen at ~-18 with my hsu and the wife in bed 2 floors up. Any more than that is trouble. I had a velo 12 in a condo and it was plenty and I couldn't use its max there. Maybe something like an emotiva 12 until you move into a place away from others.

good point but id be wasting 6 to 7 hundred for that shipped plus tax. at that price, id rather buy the cheapest on the list of mentioned subs, thats another thing.

also to mention is i had the polk 8 inch psw110 and i could barely even hear it on maximum and audyssey set my setup to "no sub" lol.
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post #922 of 1241 Old 03-26-2011, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buggy166 View Post

good point but id be wasting 6 to 7 hundred for that shipped plus tax. at that price, id rather buy the cheapest on the list of mentioned subs, thats another thing.

also to mention is i had the polk 8 inch psw110 and i could barely even hear it on maximum and audyssey set my setup to "no sub" lol.

Well in the kitchen above the theater, the stove rattles terrible, the table shakes, the cabinet doors rattle...

I imagine if you can run a power motor lawnmower in your living room and not bother the neighbor, then one of these subs won't. Depending on the size of your apartment, one of these subs could play at concert levels.
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post #923 of 1241 Old 03-27-2011, 07:16 AM
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Well in the kitchen above the theater, the stove rattles terrible, the table shakes, the cabinet doors rattle...

I imagine if you can run a power motor lawnmower in your living room and not bother the neighbor, then one of these subs won't. Depending on the size of your apartment, one of these subs could play at concert levels.

living room is open into a hallway and kitchen with total being around 450-4800 cubic feet based on rough calculations.

i generally listen to my system at -35db for video games, -30db +/- 5 depending on the movie settings, and concerts at around -25db.

i dont use it past 8pm without headphones on, got the denon ahd2000s which are great, and so far so good. Also of note is i only turn this on during weekends because im tootired from work on regular days to be doing anything but shower and maybe watch a tv show on my computer, so the HT use is limited.

i could be moving/buying a house within the next 5 years, but it may be more likely to buy a condo since im single. Dont know what the future holds, just know its not a fully detach place because prices are ridiculous around here.


edit: you guys living in houses are generally north american and ive noticed here they dont build cement and brick houses, everything is plywood and a mix of oak or whatever the builders put in. I got used to european houses where everything is solid and unless you take a hammer to the floors, you wont be hearing much below (if you lay carpet on top of floor). In this apartment building now, i live in a corner unit and all the walls/floors against neighbouring paces are solid cement with dry-wall only on interior unit walls. Its an older rental building so thats probably why.

In my floor standing speakers i have 7 inch subs i believe which currently do a decent job for cheap audio like video games, but they're obviously limited in range and basically next to useless on concerts or big action flicks. I wanna get something that reaches into the 15hz range at a volume that wont break my balcony windows....preferably.
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post #924 of 1241 Old 03-27-2011, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buggy166 View Post
living room is open into a hallway and kitchen with total being around 450-4800 cubic feet based on rough calculations.

i generally listen to my system at -35db for video games, -30db +/- 5 depending on the movie settings, and concerts at around -25db.

i dont use it past 8pm without headphones on, got the denon ahd2000s which are great, and so far so good. Also of note is i only turn this on during weekends because im tootired from work on regular days to be doing anything but shower and maybe watch a tv show on my computer, so the HT use is limited.

i could be moving/buying a house within the next 5 years, but it may be more likely to buy a condo since im single. Dont know what the future holds, just know its not a fully detach place because prices are ridiculous around here.


edit: you guys living in houses are generally north american and ive noticed here they dont build cement and brick houses, everything is plywood and a mix of oak or whatever the builders put in. I got used to european houses where everything is solid and unless you take a hammer to the floors, you wont be hearing much below (if you lay carpet on top of floor). In this apartment building now, i live in a corner unit and all the walls/floors against neighbouring paces are solid cement with dry-wall only on interior unit walls. Its an older rental building so thats probably why.

In my floor standing speakers i have 7 inch subs i believe which currently do a decent job for cheap audio like video games, but they're obviously limited in range and basically next to useless on concerts or big action flicks. I wanna get something that reaches into the 15hz range at a volume that wont break my balcony windows....preferably.
Man --- if you buy that HSU VTF-15H and are upgrading from 7" woofers. I almost want to buy a plane ticket over the pond to see your face when your first hear it!

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post #925 of 1241 Old 03-27-2011, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
Man --- if you buy that HSU VTF-15H and are upgrading from 7" woofers. I almost want to buy a plane ticket over the pond to see your face when your first hear it!
you might not have to, i live in toronto, canada, just come from an euro country originally lol, so if you're in the states, its just a border hop.

1 reason i chose to go with ID subs, you get your moneys worth regardless of what you pick, even at entry level.

Off topic question, i was checking out the new SVS sealed 13 and, future 16 which is overkill but cool to look forward to anyways, why does their 13 inch sealed only post 19hz? is it due to the amp lacking in power, cabinet design? Most of the vented options even im looking at have the ability to go lower with a port plugged.
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post #926 of 1241 Old 03-27-2011, 08:56 AM
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I agree, these subs are not for apartments. I listen at ~-18 with my hsu and the wife in bed 2 floors up. Any more than that is trouble. I had a velo 12 in a condo and it was plenty and I couldn't use its max there. Maybe something like an emotiva 12 until you move into a place away from others.
+1: I'm not sure any sub with decent output and extension is suitable for a apartment. I'm renting a completely detached home now and for AV in general and HT in particular, it is so much better than a MDU. Further, by taking my time to shop around, I actually found a decent place with lower rent than the complex I lived in previously. If possible, I'd recommend looking into a detached rental home first; sub second.
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post #927 of 1241 Old 03-27-2011, 12:07 PM
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[quote=elockett;20214659]+1: I'm not sure any sub with decent output and extension is suitable for a apartment. I'm renting a completely detached home now and for AV in general and HT in particular, it is so much better than a MDU. Further, by taking my time to shop around, I actually found a decent place with lower rent than the complex I lived in previously. If possible, I'd recommend looking into a detached rental home first; sub second.[quote=elockett;2021465]

He will absolutely annoy his tenants when he cranks it. I am originally from Toronto. Had numerous apartments in TO and around the GTA. My first sub was Mirage bps210. Had 2 10" woofers, class A amp I believe and went down to 18hz. It was all the broom handle slams and wall banging from neighbors during the Saving Private Ryan tanks that made me start saving money and investing so I could buy a detached house. Although if you want a detached house in Toronto, you'll need to invest early in the next Internet sensation or live beside some crackhead in any one of the many overpriced low end neighborhoods.

10 years later I bought my first home. Then I started upgrading subs. I've had a Velo hgs15, a ML depth, an HSU vtf3 mark3 and an SVS PB13. From the subs you list, if you are willing to max out your budget, then the PB13 is the choice. It's a phenomenal sub. I can adjust it many different ways and have it sound like a different sub each time. Crushing like I'm at the theater, accurate and deep, room shaking, chest thumping. I now change it every 3 months now that I've had more experience with it - just for kicks. I've generally always preferred accuracy and quality over SPL. With you're size room and budget, you can have enough of both.

But having owned the HSU mk3, I can tell you that although not talked about much anymore is a very tight and loud movie theater sub. Well built and reputable like anything from HSU or SVS. I'm sure you don't need to spend 2 K to be satisfied in your apartment. I'm going to be in the LA area at the end of this month and drop by HSU HQ and compare the new 15 to their other subs. Curious to compare SQ. There are also other options worth considering in this thread. For me I like the ported subs simply because they give me the tweakable option of changing the SQ of the base. Whether it's because my system changes rooms or because I feel like a change but don't want to spend money to get it. But that's my personal preference.

One last thought. Before I could afford a home I moved into the top of a two story apartment complex specifically so I would be less bother to neighbors. Since my nice retired neighbors below never knocked on the ceiling on a Saturday night I thought the floors were well built and they couldn't hear much. They always waved and smiled when passing. A year later they moved
out suddenly. She knocked on my door and let me know and asked me to do some favor all the while smiling. Of course i was glad to help and told her i wished they werent moving and wished them their best. When I last saw the husband on their moving day he responded to my wave with a terrible nasty look on his face as he drove off while she smiled back at me. I wondered what I did. A couple of days later when their things were gone and moved out I noticed the door unlocked to their apartment. So I went upstairs and put on at the time my favorite 20 minute battle scene in SPR at usual volume and went down to their apartment to see if they could hear it... I literally tested up and a lump fell in my stomach. Those poor old nice folks. It was unbelievable. I would have wanted to shoot me. All I could see was her sweet smiling face waving and his final honest angry face. They moved out from a lovely quiet apartment and complex because of me and my subwoofer. I'll never forget it. Soon after I bought a detached house.

Maybe you should save for a house first. Even nice people can abuse power.
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post #928 of 1241 Old 03-27-2011, 02:03 PM
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I will chime in on this somewhat off-topic discussion of using these subs in apartments/condos.....

I am currently on temporary assignment, living in a 3rd floor condo. Will be moving into a house in about a year once this assignment is completed. Throughout college and grad school I've lived in apartments with tenants above/below and to the sides. I have had many neighbors that were nothing but a nuisance, so I am now probably OVERLY considerate of neighbors when in apartment/condo living situations. I currently have front towers (including a 10" woofer in each), 6.5" surrounds, and TheSpeakerCompany T300 sub with dual 10" woofers. I listen to music/movies at a low-moderate volume, and usually on the low end if it is past 10-11pm. Have never had a complaint over the last 18months.

So I believe that no matter what size sub you are using, whether it be a Bose 8inch woofer or any of the beasts in this thread, it is up to the listener to be able to use common sense regarding listening volume AND time of day/night when even SLIGHTLY cranking things up.


Now, with all that said, I had been holding off on a sub upgrade because I was worried about becoming a nuisance myself. However, I'd like to mention that my current neighbors are the most inconsiderate, ignorant, immature SOB's I have ever encountered. After multiple occasions of politely approaching certain neighbors in an attempt to come to some sort of compromise on several issues, I have totally given up on civility.....I will soon be ordering the HSU VTF-15H. In addition, I have several Blu-Rays en-route from Amazon including Cloverfield, U-571, Saving Private Ryan, Transformers 1 and 2, and Iron Man.

Let the games begin

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[quote=oddiodog;20215469][quote=elockett;20214659]+1: I'm not sure any sub with decent output and extension is suitable for a apartment. I'm renting a completely detached home now and for AV in general and HT in particular, it is so much better than a MDU. Further, by taking my time to shop around, I actually found a decent place with lower rent than the complex I lived in previously. If possible, I'd recommend looking into a detached rental home first; sub second.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elockett View Post


He will absolutely annoy his tenants when he cranks it. I am originally from Toronto. Had numerous apartments in TO and around the GTA. My first sub was Mirage bps210. Had 2 10" woofers, class A amp I believe and went down to 18hz. It was all the broom handle slams and wall banging from neighbors during the Saving Private Ryan tanks that made me start saving money and investing so I could buy a detached house. Although if you want a detached house in Toronto, you'll need to invest early in the next Internet sensation or live beside some crackhead in any one of the many overpriced low end neighborhoods.

10 years later I bought my first home. Then I started upgrading subs. I've had a Velo hgs15, a ML depth, an HSU vtf3 mark3 and an SVS PB13. From the subs you list, if you are willing to max out your budget, then the PB13 is the choice. It's a phenomenal sub. I can adjust it many different ways and have it sound like a different sub each time. Crushing like I'm at the theater, accurate and deep, room shaking, chest thumping. I now change it every 3 months now that I've had more experience with it - just for kicks. I've generally always preferred accuracy and quality over SPL. With you're size room and budget, you can have enough of both.

But having owned the HSU mk3, I can tell you that although not talked about much anymore is a very tight and loud movie theater sub. Well built and reputable like anything from HSU or SVS. I'm sure you don't need to spend 2 K to be satisfied in your apartment. I'm going to be in the LA area at the end of this month and drop by HSU HQ and compare the new 15 to their other subs. Curious to compare SQ. There are also other options worth considering in this thread. For me I like the ported subs simply because they give me the tweakable option of changing the SQ of the base. Whether it's because my system changes rooms or because I feel like a change but don't want to spend money to get it. But that's my personal preference.

One last thought. Before I could afford a home I moved into the top of a two story apartment complex specifically so I would be less bother to neighbors. Since my nice retired neighbors below never knocked on the ceiling on a Saturday night I thought the floors were well built and they couldn't hear much. They always waved and smiled when passing. A year later they moved
out suddenly. She knocked on my door and let me know and asked me to do some favor all the while smiling. Of course i was glad to help and told her i wished they werent moving and wished them their best. When I last saw the husband on their moving day he responded to my wave with a terrible nasty look on his face as he drove off while she smiled back at me. I wondered what I did. A couple of days later when their things were gone and moved out I noticed the door unlocked to their apartment. So I went upstairs and put on at the time my favorite 20 minute battle scene in SPR at usual volume and went down to their apartment to see if they could hear it... I literally tested up and a lump fell in my stomach. Those poor old nice folks. It was unbelievable. I would have wanted to shoot me. All I could see was her sweet smiling face waving and his final honest angry face. They moved out from a lovely quiet apartment and complex because of me and my subwoofer. I'll never forget it. Soon after I bought a detached house.

Maybe you should save for a house first. Even nice people can abuse power.

thanks, that helps. The problem is i can at most afford a 1 bed condo in 1-2 years from now since prices are nothing short of ridiculous with a bungalow in a barely decent neighbourhood in toronto asking north of 850k because they're "only" 20 minutes away walking (running) from a subway station.

I had a previous 5.1 setup theater in a box with a decent small sub and i still didnt blast it past what my "too loud" level was and still havent had complaints 10 yrs previous. It comes down to consideration, and for me personally, the potential of what that sub can do were i to move to a detach place.

Buying a house in toronto though, no friggin way, even if i was married with 2 decent incomes, wouldnt wanna waste 35 years of my life to just barely pay for a small place at the cost of not having much money for anything else. Heavily overpriced market, especially in vancouver where crack houses go for just south of 2 million somehow.
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post #930 of 1241 Old 03-27-2011, 03:08 PM
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[quote=buggy166;20215986][quote=oddiodog;20215469]
Quote:
Originally Posted by elockett View Post

+1: I'm not sure any sub with decent output and extension is suitable for a apartment. I'm renting a completely detached home now and for AV in general and HT in particular, it is so much better than a MDU. Further, by taking my time to shop around, I actually found a decent place with lower rent than the complex I lived in previously. If possible, I'd recommend looking into a detached rental home first; sub second.

thanks, that helps. The problem is i can at most afford a 1 bed condo in 1-2 years from now since prices are nothing short of ridiculous with a bungalow in a barely decent neighbourhood in toronto asking north of 850k because they're "only" 20 minutes away walking (running) from a subway station.

I had a previous 5.1 setup theater in a box with a decent small sub and i still didnt blast it past what my "too loud" level was and still havent had complaints 10 yrs previous. It comes down to consideration, and for me personally, the potential of what that sub can do were i to move to a detach place.

Buying a house in toronto though, no friggin way, even if i was married with 2 decent incomes, wouldnt wanna waste 35 years of my life to just barely pay for a small place at the cost of not having much money for anything else. Heavily overpriced market, especially in vancouver where crack houses go for just south of 2 million somehow.

Why not email a few of the companies, give them a description of your living space/setup and listening material...let them make a suggestion for you. As crazy as it may sound, they may end up pointing you in the direction of a less expensive model that will still be an impressive upgrade. Your other option is to go with one of the monsters and use common sense regarding volume and times of day/night.

Here's my honest $0.02.....If I were you, I wouldn't worry too much about buying a massive sub right now in an attempt to leave headroom for moving into a larger space. Reason being, it sounds as if you might not make the move for several more years.

What sub are you currently using? And what are your reasons for considering the upgrade?

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