SHOOTOUT! Epik Empire vs HSU VTF-15H vs CHT CS18.1 vs Rythmik FV15 vs eD A7s-450 - Page 42 - AVS Forum
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post #1231 of 1257 Old 06-19-2012, 04:46 PM
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I just got Dual MFW-15's used for $400 and they are rocking my house. How would you compare these to the reviewed subs? They far exceed my previous bass experiences. I may be selling 1 as the output is a bit overwhelming... we'll see.
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post #1232 of 1257 Old 06-19-2012, 05:33 PM
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Sabaspeed521,

I think Desetdome has some dual opposed MFW-15 boxes that placed the best among the non uber expensive sub in the 2012 blind subwoofer shootout linked in my signature. He recently built an infinite baffle system and is trying to sell the MFW-15's that we listened to at our meet with their twin pair as well ( a total of four cabs, and eight drivers). They placed 5th overall behind the JTR (3 different sub systems) and Seaton Submersive HP pair, but ahead of the HSU VTF-15H and the CHT 18.1SS --- so that answer is that a properly designed MFW-15 dual opposed enclosure preforms stronger than HSU or CHT combination. This was afterall four drivers vs. two at our meet - so this should be somewhat expected.
As to being too loud - turn them down. They can be EQ'ed very nice, and should blend in very well. The MFW-15 is sort of a low priced legend around these parts. It's a decent driver cheap. With the setup procedures we used at our meet they were found to have the flattest frequency response. They were the only sub pair driven off a single subwoofer input because the modified Dayton amp only had a single channnel which really helped their case.. Audyssey Multi EQ XT with Sub EQ seemed to like that better than dual subs run off two seperate inputs.

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post #1233 of 1257 Old 06-20-2012, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjmbxkb View Post

I never thought only three years after completing my basement HT with 7.2 setup, I would be searching for a sub again.

I wish this thread existed back then. My experience provides perfect footnote to What Ethan and Adam wrote on the eD sub: "Reliability is an ongoing issue. Compared to the other ID companies, there are just way too many “my sub stopped working” posts on the official eD thread. ... So please please please stop ignoring the reliability issue and build them to last longer."

In my case, the eD A3-300 died three months into my ownerhsip, and with the replacement AMP, it lasted only 2.5 years and died again several nights ago. You'd think a $550 sub would last longer.

Thanks very much, Ethan and Adam. The shootout gives us a lot of insights on the strength of each sub, and will help me tremendously in my search.

Wow. Deja vu. I read this comment on my smartphone and had to continue to scroll to the left to be sure it wasn't my post. There are a couple of minor differences though. Days after receiving my eD A3-300 my cat rubbed against it and broke the plastics off the speaker grill, and mine actually worked for about 6 months before the first amp blew. The second one went bad very shortly thereafter, it took several months to get a replacement. I just shipped off my third defective amp, let's see how this goes. Oh, and I've also had to replace a driver that was blown due to one of the faulty amps.

Having struggled with little bass in the past 3 years I've been doing my research for a replacement. With a large room (5500cu/ft) and a need for both HT and music applications once I absorbed all there was to learn my choice was clear, I've ordered a Rythmik FV15HP. I'd like to have gone with sealed but it became apparent that at least two powerful sealed subs would be necessary and I have very few placement options.

Thanks much to the shootout participants and reviewers, and others who have contributed to this thread. It was extremely helpful.
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post #1234 of 1257 Old 06-20-2012, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

I just shipped off my third defective amp, let's see how this goes. Oh, and I've also had to replace a driver that was blown due to one of the faulty amps.

my choice was clear, I've ordered a Rythmik FV15HP. I'd like to have gone with sealed but it became apparent that at least two powerful sealed subs would be necessary and I have very few placement options.
Thanks much to the shootout participants and reviewers, and others who have contributed to this thread. It was extremely helpful.

Actually you guys should consider yourselves lucky when it comes to eD's reliability issues. My brother has an eD A5s-325 that is on his FIFTH, maybe SIXTH amp? I know it pisses him off to have to keep dealing with it, but he never says anything because eD keeps replacing them even though it's outside of warranty now. But for as many amps as he's gone thru and all the frustration and inconvenience it causes I feel they should have done more than just replace amps for him. They should've stopped using those amps a long time ago. I think the most frustrating part for everyone is the extreme state of denial eD is in.

But nethawk - congrats on the Rythmik FV15HP! That is one amazing sub, you will not believe the difference in SQ could be so great once you hear it. And output? Buy some extra socks, the ones you have are about to get blowed up. wink.gif

Anywho, I'm so glad to see our thread is still proving valuable to people. I took some time and read thru the first page again and was reminded of just how much work we put into it. So many weekends testing over and over, and many of my weeknights editing, processing and triple-checking our notes and measurements. You can't do anything worthwhile in one day, that's for sure! biggrin.gif Thanks again to everyone for being so kind as to let us know our hard work is appreciated. smile.gif
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post #1235 of 1257 Old 06-20-2012, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by below90hz View Post

Anywho, I'm so glad to see our thread is still proving valuable to people. I took some time and read thru the first page again and was reminded of just how much work we put into it. So many weekends testing over and over, and many of my weeknights editing, processing and triple-checking our notes and measurements. You can't do anything worthwhile in one day, that's for sure! biggrin.gif Thanks again to everyone for being so kind as to let us know our hard work is appreciated. smile.gif

Indeed. If any of you finds yourselves in central Virginia I owe you much more than a beer!

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post #1236 of 1257 Old 06-28-2012, 04:50 PM
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Below90hz,

I currently have a Klipsch RW-12D. I'm considering either the Empire or the VTF-15H. Which do you prefer for movies? Would it be a huge improvement over my RW12D?

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post #1237 of 1257 Old 06-28-2012, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by flyguyjake View Post

Below90hz,
I currently have a Klipsch RW-12D. I'm considering either the Empire or the VTF-15H. Which do you prefer for movies? Would it be a huge improvement over my RW12D?

I have not had the pleasure of listening to a Klipsch RW-12D, from its specs it seems to be a potent little 12" sub.
  • Improvement max SPL wise, both the Empire and VTF-15H would best the Klipsch. By how much? Can't say, I'm guessing by a decently noticeable margin.
  • Improvement in accuracy? Can't say without having heard the Klipsch. It would be tough to beat the VTF-15H, and the Empire is quite accurate as well.
  • Improvement in low-end extension, there is where either of these two subs will without question walk all over your Klipsch.

After you buy either one of the two subs you're leaning towards, I'm quite certain you'd agree there would be a huge improvement overall, you would not regret your purchase. Especially when you watch some of your favorite bass-heavy movies and realize there's low-end content there you never heard before. smile.gif

As for movie-listening between the Hsu and Epic, that's a tough call. I loved the Hsu in my brother's house, but I preferred the Empire in mine. My brother's setup is currently in a living room on floor-joists, mine is in a large open basement theatre on conc slab. Hopefully that gives you a little more food for thought.

p.s. thanks for changing how you spelled my screen name from "blow90hz" to "below90hz" - that's the kind of thing that gets rumors started! tongue.gif

-Ethan

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post #1238 of 1257 Old 06-28-2012, 08:38 PM
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LOL sorry bout that! eek.gif

So what are you currently using in your house? What is your brother using in his?

Any experience testing AVR's? Who are you a fan of?

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post #1239 of 1257 Old 06-30-2012, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by flyguyjake View Post

LOL sorry bout that! eek.gif
So what are you currently using in your house? What is your brother using in his?
Any experience testing AVR's? Who are you a fan of?

I've got two Polk monitor 70 II's for fronts (I loooooove how they sound), two JBL1200 subs (boo I hate them) up front, a JBL center channel, two JBL CM40's for surround, and my A7s-450 sitting nearfield behind my couch for the low-end stuff. My AVR is a Pioneer VSX-1120 (a gift from my awesome bro). Overall I am happy with my system except for my JBL 1200 subs. After hearing some really nice subs like the ones in this shootout, it's just hard to be happy with them.

My brother's system is pretty sweet, I know he's currently using Axiom speakers and also has some super nice JBLs in storage. I'm not sure on specifics, he'll have to chime in for specifics.

We're not as gung-ho over AVRs as we are subs, so basically we just stick to Denon cuz their stuff is reliable and powerful and all that. And lately Pioneer has had some good AVRs, although I'm not thrilled with their current lineup since they don't have pre-outs on any of their models under $1k. But I really like my 1120 (and it DOES have preouts) so I'll probably own it for a long time to come.

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post #1240 of 1257 Old 07-01-2012, 08:44 PM
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Below90hz, I too am looking to upgrade my sub. I am currently running a HSU VTF2.3 that is about 4 years old. 12" sub with ports & plug, kinda the VTF-15's baby brother. Weird thing is that they spec out about the same except that the 15 has more power & plays louder. It is rare that I find the VTF2.3 runs out of headroom, but it does happen occasionally. In a 12x20x9 den that is open to the kitchen on a concrete slab floor(No Texas). Considering the VTF-15, CHT, & Epik. 66% movies, 34% music. Don't get me wrong, I love the sub I have, but wonder if I'm missing much down low, or if the alternatives will give me more body slam with movies. BTW, I am running a pair of classic Polk Monitor 10's w/Peerless tweeter & polk center & surrounds. Sorry, just went to a concert & fireworks show last nite! Got the bug all over again.
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post #1241 of 1257 Old 07-04-2012, 03:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Scottfox View Post

Below90hz, I too am looking to upgrade my sub. I am currently running a HSU VTF2.3 that is about 4 years old. 12" sub with ports & plug, kinda the VTF-15's baby brother. Weird thing is that they spec out about the same except that the 15 has more power & plays louder. It is rare that I find the VTF2.3 runs out of headroom, but it does happen occasionally. In a 12x20x9 den that is open to the kitchen on a concrete slab floor(No Texas). Considering the VTF-15, CHT, & Epik. 66% movies, 34% music. Don't get me wrong, I love the sub I have, but wonder if I'm missing much down low, or if the alternatives will give me more body slam with movies. BTW, I am running a pair of classic Polk Monitor 10's w/Peerless tweeter & polk center & surrounds. Sorry, just went to a concert & fireworks show last nite! Got the bug all over again.

Scott do you have a set budget or is it a little flexible? I only ask because if it is you should consider a Rythmik as well. Also how big is the entire space the sub will be playing in? You said it was open to the kitchen too. Any other rooms it's open to? That info will help narrow it down a little. I know if you're pretty happy with the 2.3 any one of these should be a good step up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyguyjake View Post

LOL sorry bout that! eek.gif
So what are you currently using in your house? What is your brother using in his?
Any experience testing AVR's? Who are you a fan of?

Jake I have Axiom Audio in-walls and a custom made box that also happens to have a driver and non-working amp in it from eD. I have a pioneer receiver too. I personally prefer a Pioneer, Denon, or Marantz. Onkyo has too many problems for me but they usually have the most features for the money. I'm waiting for Denon to bring out a receiver to replace the 4311. Any of those manufactures though make some good receivers for the money. I doubt you'd be unhappy with any one of them.
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post #1242 of 1257 Old 08-16-2014, 01:36 PM
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Smile Awesome!

Great reviews guys! The video links are all broken, but the review is detailed enough that it didn't matter so much.

Thanks again!

Nunc lento sonitu dicunt, morieris.
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post #1243 of 1257 Old 08-16-2014, 03:06 PM
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Ha ha! Nice throw back! Too bad all the links are broke...the brothers did a great job putting this thread together.

Now that all the subs in this review have been tested by Josh and on data-bass, it would be interesting to go back and see how everyone's theories and subjective results matched up!
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post #1244 of 1257 Old 08-18-2014, 08:25 AM
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Too bad all the links are broke...
Too bad all the links are BROKEN...sorry, this is a pet peeve of mine.

Back to topic - I thought the review was great. In the end I ended up going a bit smaller and got an Outlaw LFM-1 EX.

Visit the Lipszyc Home Theater! 1.0
2.0 done and finally posted! - Theater 2.0

And now...The Queen City Theater (3.0)
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post #1245 of 1257 Old 08-18-2014, 05:39 PM
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Smile

I guess I really should get around to fixing those links: I just looked at the numbers, and as far as I can tell even now our shootout has more pageviews than all other shootout/comparison threads from 2011 to the present combined. And it has 3X more pageviews than a similar shootout released by Audioholics around the same time. This from a couple of guys who only have about 500 posts between the two of us? We're not worthy! We're not worthy!

HaHA went old school Wayne and Garth on ya. Seriously we really appreciate all of you guys reading and taking the time to tell us you liked what we did. It made all the eardrum-bashing worth it.

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post #1246 of 1257 Old 08-19-2014, 04:41 PM
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Hey,
You and Madaeel need to come over and here the new system!
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post #1247 of 1257 Old 08-20-2014, 05:56 PM - Thread Starter
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New thread

Thanks Blip and Backlash for reading and I'm glad someone is still enjoying this thread.

Speaking of threads, James and Dom next week I'll be posting a thread here and at Data-Bass and just as a teaser Bosso is gonna be there
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post #1248 of 1257 Old 08-20-2014, 06:41 PM
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So you went through with it!
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post #1249 of 1257 Old 08-20-2014, 06:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes sir. My basement was just finished a month ago and Dave is driving up Friday with some gear. You'll have to come hear it.
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post #1250 of 1257 Old 08-20-2014, 07:06 PM
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Yes sir. My basement was just finished a month ago and Dave is driving up Friday with some gear. You'll have to come hear it.
Awesome! Long time coming sir...can't wait to hear what you ended up with!

Although, with Bosso on premise, I think I have a good guess!

Looking forward to it!
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post #1251 of 1257 Old 08-20-2014, 07:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Dom. It has been awhile but it's finally done with just a couple things to touch up and some more room treatments.

Dave is bringing a camera to take some pics and vids I just hope my step-daughter will be home because she's a professional photographer and she get get better pics in my dark side of the room haha. I will post them either way sometime next week.
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post #1252 of 1257 Old 08-20-2014, 08:41 PM
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Awesome! Congrats. Your friend takes some pretty good pics.
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post #1253 of 1257 Old 08-21-2014, 12:20 AM
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Time slips by.

This thread...loved it. Cost me some money though I think, because I started looking at ID subs for the first time after seeing this. I ended going with a Seaton Submersive off of the AVS classifieds.

I'm going to go back and "like" the original post, lol.

Also, Madael, thanks for answering my pm's back then.
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post #1254 of 1257 Old 08-21-2014, 04:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks James. Actually Eric isn't taking any of the pics. I was hoping my step-daughter would but she has a wedding that day so I'm not sure yet if she will. One way or another I'll have some since Dave and my wife are going to take some.

Thanks mph and glad I could help. Nice choice in sub. Definitely a step up from these.
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post #1255 of 1257 Old 08-28-2014, 12:06 PM
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Thanks Blip and Backlash for reading and I'm glad someone is still enjoying this thread.

Speaking of threads, James and Dom next week I'll be posting a thread here and at Data-Bass and just as a teaser Bosso is gonna be there
Did you create a thread for this yet?? Link please...
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post #1256 of 1257 Old 08-28-2014, 03:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Did you create a thread for this yet?? Link please...
Sorry it'll be tomorrow Dom. I went to six flags on Monday, and then my step-daughter had to resize all the images her and Dave took so they"ll all be the same width when you scroll. She had weddings to catch up on first because she was with us almost the whole weekend even during the sweeps haha. I had to go over everything too to make sure I didn't miss anything and arrange the pics in order. Anyway tomorrow morning it should be up.
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post #1257 of 1257 Old 08-28-2014, 07:51 PM
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Sorry it'll be tomorrow Dom. I went to six flags on Monday, and then my step-daughter had to resize all the images her and Dave took so they"ll all be the same width when you scroll. She had weddings to catch up on first because she was with us almost the whole weekend even during the sweeps haha. I had to go over everything too to make sure I didn't miss anything and arrange the pics in order. Anyway tomorrow morning it should be up.
Looking forward to it!
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