SHOOTOUT! Epik Empire vs HSU VTF-15H vs CHT CS18.1 vs Rythmik FV15 vs eD A7s-450 - Page 6 - AVS Forum
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post #151 of 1257 Old 02-07-2011, 01:37 AM
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Originally Posted by below90hz View Post



Really? Dang I have that song but I've only ever listened to it on my Sennheiser HD202's. Guess I gotta play it on some speakers!


It's brief, and I'm not pushing my HSU on anyone, but the double kick part is quite visually impressive with driver motion.

I have no less than 5 friends (who DON'T like metal) quite impressed with the performance and the feeling that the sub was about to flop out of the box into the floor and then smack them in the neck!!!
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post #152 of 1257 Old 02-07-2011, 01:52 AM
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Top notch review, gentlemen!

It grossly exceeded my expectations. In depth, honest, with great videos to boot!

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post #153 of 1257 Old 02-07-2011, 04:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

Good effort guys.

One thing I wanted to note. When using the rat shack meters with the generic correction values your response graphs are ok because they are all comparable. How was the Spl recorded for the music and movie scenes? I presume you recorded it directly off of the meter? In that case you cannot add the correction values due to the complex waveform being reproduced. Some of the tracks that you used contain very powerful sub 25hz bass. The subs that have greater extension and low bass output will get shortchanged on the total spl because the meter will be registering the output above 35hz predominantly for the reading. Just something to think about next time.

Btw its "Bass I love you" not "I love you bass"!

Ricci,

I agree with you. But that maybe just a couple of db. It is difficult to get everything in exactly same. We just have to keep in mind that subs with greater extension will be under heavier stress. The power that is used to put out that extra extension can be used in more audible band.


Ethan/Adam,

The video is very innovative idea. Nice job. As I had mentioned in email, that is better than the recent one in xxxx.
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post #154 of 1257 Old 02-07-2011, 05:57 AM
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I feel like getting punched in the stomach, so my next sub is the HSU VTF-15H, but it was a close one.
I applaude Dr. HSU for both an WAF approved sub with performace to back it up!

The other sexy sub is the Rythmik FV15. It's a toss up on my next sub between these two!

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post #155 of 1257 Old 02-07-2011, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Geoff4RFC View Post

Thank you Mr. Wizard

Well you are welcome very little!...not sure why the sarcasm, but the ears can be very SUBJECTIVE.

mrcoop....aka---->mr wizard
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post #156 of 1257 Old 02-07-2011, 07:32 AM
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Nice job guys!

Just the group photo alone was interesting!

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post #157 of 1257 Old 02-07-2011, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Shift View Post

I feel like getting punched in the stomach, so my next sub is the HSU VTF-15H, but it was a close one.
I applaude Dr. HSU for both an WAF approved sub with performace to back it up!

The other sexy sub is the Rythmik FV15. It's a toss up on my next sub between these two!

I feel the same way is it a toss up between these two.
Max spl that they tested is good to know, but if the subs where calibrated into a system at 78db and watched at refence levels which sub would give you the most impact?

Allen
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post #158 of 1257 Old 02-07-2011, 08:39 AM
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If you guys are going to be returning the subs back to the vendors, how much money do you estimate you'll have to eat as a result of conducting these tests? In addition, did any of the vendors agree in advance to absorb any portion of the s/h for returns?

"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
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post #159 of 1257 Old 02-07-2011, 08:40 AM
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Bravo! Great review, only wished that you had an SVS in the review as well. The Hsu, rhythmik and epik all look like great buys. I'm leaning towards the epik due to form factor and spl's won't matter in my small room. BTW the feet on that craigsub look so out of place and look horrible.
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post #160 of 1257 Old 02-07-2011, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

Nice job guys!

Just the group photo alone was interesting!

Thanks! Speaking of the photos, I didn't originally credit the photographer, because i asked her last minute to do the shoot so she didn't have any time to prepare, and I did the processing so i didn't know if she'd like how i did it (she's a pro fashion/wedding photog and she's really freakin good at it). But i asked her yesterday if she preferred to be credited or not and she said "sure" so i added a credit to the introduction. For those of you who missed it, go check out www.elenajasic.com and she's also got a photography blog with even tons more pictures (link is in upper left corner). (some parts of site are nsfw)

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post #161 of 1257 Old 02-07-2011, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

If you guys are going to be returning the subs back to the vendors, how much money do you estimate you'll have to eat as a result of conducting these tests? In addition, did any of the vendors agree in advance to absorb any portion of the s/h for returns?

If I recall the anticipation thread correctly, they plan to sell the subs, not return them.

With the level of appreciation expressed on this thread for the efforts, have they become collectors items? Maybe the guys should engrave the subs and see if they couldn't at least break even if not make a couple of bucks
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post #162 of 1257 Old 02-07-2011, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

If I recall the anticipation thread correctly, they plan to sell the subs, not return them.

With the level of appreciation expressed on this thread for the efforts, have they become collectors items? Maybe the guys should engrave the subs and see if they couldn't at least break even if not make a couple of bucks

If that's the case, then there's probably still a loss associated with selling them since they're not new. Further, there's the question for the new owner of the subs as to whether they're still warrantied.

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post #163 of 1257 Old 02-07-2011, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

If you guys are going to be returning the subs back to the vendors, how much money do you estimate you'll have to eat as a result of conducting these tests? In addition, did any of the vendors agree in advance to absorb any portion of the s/h for returns?

We're not returning subs. Adam is selling them - and I'm begging him to hold off for a while because I think we need more time with them. So please don't PM him just yet folks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nismo604 View Post

Bravo! Great review, only wished that you had an SVS in the review as well.

We are almost certainly going to be including an SVS product when we do a review of the higher price range subs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nismo604 View Post

BTW the feet on that craigsub look so out of place and look horrible.

Yeah actually i feel bad about that, cuz at the GetToGether, Craig asked about the feet, and everyone (including us) was like "yeah they're different" "the wood is a nice touch", etc. I think Craig was about the only one who had his doubts about the feet! Sorry Craig!

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post #164 of 1257 Old 02-07-2011, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

If that's the case, then there's probably still a loss associated with selling them since they're not new. Further, there's the question for the new owner of the subs as to whether they're still warrantied.

I'm sure you're right, though who wouldn't pay over retail to be able to claim ownership of the now famous "SHOOTOUT! Epik Empire vs HSU VTF-15H vs CHT CS18.1 vs Rythmik FV15 vs eD A7s-450" subs

Particularly given the robust QC process they just went through.
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post #165 of 1257 Old 02-07-2011, 09:11 AM
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As much as I'm impressed by the reviews (thanks guys) I'm equally impressed by the non inflammatory responses thus far as well (thanks guys.)

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post #166 of 1257 Old 02-07-2011, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

I'm sure you're right, though who wouldn't pay over retail to be able to claim ownership of the now famous "SHOOTOUT! Epik Empire vs HSU VTF-15H vs CHT CS18.1 vs Rythmik FV15 vs eD A7s-450" subs

Particularly given the robust QC process they just went through.

I wouldn't pay over retail and I hope others wouldn't either (no offence meant towards the testers). They're used not aged like Scotch! BTW, in a very brief attempt to try and get some insight into what ED's policy is on things like returns and warranties, I didn't come across anything on their website. Was I not patient enough in finding it or is it just in some obscure place?

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post #167 of 1257 Old 02-07-2011, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

I wouldn't pay over retail and I hope others wouldn't either (no offence meant towards the testers). They're used not aged like Scotch! BTW, in a very brief attempt to try and get some insight into what ED's policy is on things like returns and warranties, I didn't come across anything on their website. Was I not patient enough in finding it or is it just in some obscure place?

Chu, I'm just kidding about paying over retail.

LOL on the mental image of "aged" subs. Deep bass with just a hint of Sherry and foam surround
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post #168 of 1257 Old 02-07-2011, 09:29 AM
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Hey guys, I noticed you spoke about a review of the higher priced subs, do you have an idea of which subs will be included in that review?
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post #169 of 1257 Old 02-07-2011, 09:40 AM
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I'm equally impressed by the non inflammatory responses thus far as well (thanks guys.)

Seriously. We're six pages in and no one has been stabbed yet, though I fear time is the enemy here. It always is in the subwoofer forum. All it takes is one wrong (or right) question that someone else doesn't like...

I think the guys did a hell of a job. Regardless of how informative people may or may not think it is, it's entertaining and a fun read nonetheless.

Stephen.

Chances are very good that I was drinking when I posted the above.

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post #170 of 1257 Old 02-07-2011, 09:46 AM
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What were the extension and damping settings used for the Rythmik?

If I missed it, can some one point me in the right direction?

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Like all things on the Internet, do your research, as forums have a good amount of misinformation.
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post #171 of 1257 Old 02-07-2011, 10:26 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

I wouldn't pay over retail and I hope others wouldn't either (no offence meant towards the testers). They're used not aged like Scotch! BTW, in a very brief attempt to try and get some insight into what ED's policy is on things like returns and warranties, I didn't come across anything on their website. Was I not patient enough in finding it or is it just in some obscure place?

I've been looking at their subs for the past couple of weeks in thoughts of possibly buying one or two.

I can't find the warranty info anywhere on their site and I've looked/searched for it.
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post #172 of 1257 Old 02-07-2011, 10:56 AM
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I have one question/observation that I know several people will have/have experienced:

Why is that this is true?(and I have experienced it too)

"We can’t tell you how much fun this sub is to listen to. It was kind of a mystery to us: even though its average max SPL was about 2.8db below the A7s-450, this thing just moved you like no other."

I mean...

I have been giving it several thoughts and the only thing I can come up with is that since the sub has the flattest FR, in real world material when all the freqs are asked to be played at the same time, the VTF-15 actually handles them louder, because all the freqs are having the same loudness/priority and thus plays actually louder? (i guess)

Does this make sense to you people? If this is not me being high or something(HAHAHAH) this effect appears to be very difficult to measure, but it is giving great results in real world performance.

The same thing happens with several of the HSU lineup, since when the VTF-3 MK3 review from craigsub came up, he said that "the sub was pure joy to listen to", and that "it goes beyond the posted numbers"...So apparently all HSU subs in real world material are much powerful felt than others with higher SPL numbers per frequency...

BTW...I didn't have my coffee today...HAHHAA

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post #173 of 1257 Old 02-07-2011, 10:59 AM
 
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I pay very little attention to any subjective comments that fly in the face of objective numbers.
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post #174 of 1257 Old 02-07-2011, 11:13 AM
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Well done guys. This took a lot of time and I am sure that many are and will appreciate your work efforts.

S
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post #175 of 1257 Old 02-07-2011, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ResIpsa View Post
I've been looking at their subs for the past couple of weeks in thoughts of possibly buying one or two.

I can't find the warranty info anywhere on their site and I've looked/searched for it.
It's in the Help section.
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post #176 of 1257 Old 02-07-2011, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post
What were the extension and damping settings used for the Rythmik?

If I missed it, can some one point me in the right direction?
I believe Ethan and Adam set it to 14/low. They basically looked at the FR curves on our FV15 product page and get a lot of information on how to set it for the test. I was a bit nervous that they may use the wrong setting. But their reply was the instruction was very clear. As you can see that curve has also quite a bit of correlation to what Ethan/Adam got. The same thing goes to AH shootout. I did send email to Gene beforehand to set it to 14hz/low as that will give us the flattest extension. That AH curve is almost a replicate of what we had measured. There are more than one ways to get the FR curves and they should all correlate very well.
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post #177 of 1257 Old 02-07-2011, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by nismo604 View Post
Bravo! Great review, only wished that you had an SVS in the review as well. The Hsu, rhythmik and epik all look like great buys. I'm leaning towards the epik due to form factor and spl's won't matter in my small room. BTW the feet on that craigsub look so out of place and look horrible.
i suppose you could just paint the feet black if you didn't like them.

anyway, i'm in agreement with you on the hsu, rhytmik and epik. they look like the cream of the crop. it's nice to have choices.
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post #178 of 1257 Old 02-07-2011, 11:59 AM
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Hey Gentleman, Great job!!
You showed two lines on the A7s450 with bassboost on/off, is the graph of the CS18.1 with the bass boost on or off? Thanks.
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post #179 of 1257 Old 02-07-2011, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cacihome View Post
I have one question/observation that I know several people will have/have experienced:

Why is that this is true?(and I have experienced it too)

"We can't tell you how much fun this sub is to listen to. It was kind of a mystery to us: even though its average max SPL was about 2.8db below the A7s-450, this thing just moved you like no other."

I mean...

I have been giving it several thoughts and the only thing I can come up with is that since the sub has the flattest FR, in real world material when all the freqs are asked to be played at the same time, the VTF-15 actually handles them louder, because all the freqs are having the same loudness/priority and thus plays actually louder? (i guess)

Does this make sense to you people? If this is not me being high or something(HAHAHAH) this effect appears to be very difficult to measure, but it is giving great results in real world performance.

The same thing happens with several of the HSU lineup, since when the VTF-3 MK3 review from craigsub came up, he said that "the sub was pure joy to listen to", and that "it goes beyond the posted numbers"...So apparently all HSU subs in real world material are much powerful felt than others with higher SPL numbers per frequency...

BTW...I didn't have my coffee today...HAHHAA
QUOTE - Madaeel

Oh and even though we love the VTF-15H's feet, maybe consider offering an optional set of feet that transfer less to the floor for people who don't? Ok, we're done grasping at straws now.

What we like/were impressed with:
The driver is so powerful you can actually see the enclosure vibrate when its maxed out. (You're not gonna place anything on top of a sub this gorgeous anyways so that's not a bad thing).



Kwarny - It may be due to the fact that the feet transferred more energy to the floor than the others. Not an expert but the HSU's cabinet not being as inert compared to the others at max output may account for this presence.

The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge - Stephen Hawking

 

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post #180 of 1257 Old 02-07-2011, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by kwarny View Post
QUOTE - Madaeel

Oh and even though we love the VTF-15H’s feet, maybe consider offering an optional set of feet that transfer less to the floor for people who don’t? Ok, we’re done grasping at straws now.

What we like/were impressed with:
The driver is so powerful you can actually see the enclosure vibrate when its maxed out. (You’re not gonna place anything on top of a sub this gorgeous anyways so that’s not a bad thing).


Kwarny - It may be due to the fact that the feet transferred more energy to the floor than the others. Not an expert but the HSU's cabinet not being as inert compared to the others at max output may account for this presence.
.
Nice!! so it’s a Sub and a Bass Shaker.... that would save me like $200 additional bucks....
.
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