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post #31 of 47 Old 04-06-2011, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by HomeTheater1010 View Post

That shows what you know never heard of Velodyne......lol lol Optimum 12. 1200 watts RMS 2400 peak...lol yeah it can't handle it...lol. You guys make me laugh just trying to help the guy out with settings...It shouldn't be 120 hz.... My speakers handle all hz.... Nothing is lost anywhere .... I have a high end Onkyo...that send the sound to different speakers..

You do not understand what we are talking about or much about the LFE channel if set the High Pass on the LFE channel to 80Hz and you still post "My speakers handle all Hz".

btw, I do not need to hear a small subwoofer with a 12" driver in it to know what it can not do.

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post #32 of 47 Old 04-06-2011, 08:42 AM
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Understanding that LPF applies to the .1 and there's no content above 120hz there,why did Audyssey set it at 250hz?The bass doesn't sound boomy,I'm just curious why it would set it that high.From what I've read it's not ok to lower the crossovers after Audyssey sets them.Is it ok to lower the LPF to 120?Btw I have a Denon 1909 and a HSU VTF 2-MK3.
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post #33 of 47 Old 04-06-2011, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieDigital View Post

Understanding that LPF applies to the .1 and there's no content above 120hz there,why did Audyssey set it at 250hz?The bass doesn't sound boomy,I'm just curious why it would set it that high.From what I've read it's not ok to lower the crossovers after Audyssey sets them.Is it ok to lower the LPF to 120?Btw I have a Denon 1909 and a HSU VTF 2-MK3.

That setting at 250hz can't be the LPF of LFE because there is no way it can be higher than 120hz. Audyssey does not set the LPF of LFE. Your receiver works with Audyssey to set speaker crossovers. I believe you are not fully understanding what is going on here.
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post #34 of 47 Old 04-06-2011, 09:32 AM
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I'm pretty sure I got the idea.Are you familliar with Denon receivers?Checkout Batpig's Denon 1909 vs 1910 thread and also his Denon to English Dictionary page.The Denon's LPF's can be set to 250hz.I know there's no information above 120hz sent to the LFE.I know the difference between a crossover and a low pass filter.If the crossovers were set to 250hz my sub would become localized.As it is now it blends in perfectly with my system.
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post #35 of 47 Old 04-06-2011, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieDigital View Post

I'm pretty sure I got the idea.Are you familliar with Denon receivers?Checkout Batpig's Denon 1909 vs 1910 thread and also his Denon to English Dictionary page.The Denon's LPF's can be set to 250hz.I know there's no information above 120hz sent to the LFE.I know the difference between a crossover and a low pass filter.If the crossovers were set to 250hz my sub would become localized.As it is now it blends in perfectly with my system.

Well I know on Onkyo receivers the highest setting for the LPF of LFE is 120hz. I'm not a Denon owner but I thought they would be the same. Can another Denon owner comment on this? Just so we have all the facts right.
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post #36 of 47 Old 04-06-2011, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Since content above about 80 Hz can start to cause subwoofer lacalizability, a setting of the filter above 80 to 120 Hz is NOT advised.

Craig

CJ, you're contradicting yourself. On this post http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post19183717 YOU advised that the HPF on the LFE should be set on 120HZ.

Quote:


The LPF of LFE is not a "crossover" per se. It is *just* a Low Pass Filter applied *only* to the LFE channel. It should ALWAYS be set to 120 Hz.

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Most recording engineers don't place any content above 120 Hz in the LFE channel, (and , in fact, not much above 80 Hz), so it's not a huge issue either way. However, to ensure you don't "lose" any LFE content, the LPF of LFE should ALWAYS be set to 120 Hz.


So....which is it?

Evil is Good
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post #37 of 47 Old 04-06-2011, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Secret Squirrel View Post

Well I know on Onkyo receivers the highest setting for the LPF of LFE is 120hz. I'm not a Denon owner but I thought they would be the same. Can another Denon owner comment on this? Just so we have all the facts right.

I think 120 is the highest LPF for the LFE on my Denon
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post #38 of 47 Old 04-06-2011, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieDigital View Post

I'm pretty sure I got the idea.Are you familliar with Denon receivers?Checkout Batpig's Denon 1909 vs 1910 thread and also his Denon to English Dictionary page.The Denon's LPF's can be set to 250hz.I know there's no information above 120hz sent to the LFE.I know the difference between a crossover and a low pass filter.If the crossovers were set to 250hz my sub would become localized.As it is now it blends in perfectly with my system.

You where right. The highest setting on a Denon receiver for the LPF of LFE is 250hz. That just didn't sound right to me. Sorry about that.
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post #39 of 47 Old 04-06-2011, 12:45 PM
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@ Secret Squirrel,No problem,just makes no sense to me to have it go up that high if nothing is sent above 120hz to the LFE.
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post #40 of 47 Old 04-06-2011, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieDigital View Post

@ Secret Squirrel,No problem,just makes no sense to me to have it go up that high if nothing is sent above 120hz to the LFE.

I agree. I would not set it any higher than 120hz. From what I understand the default setting is 120hz in a Denon.
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post #41 of 47 Old 04-06-2011, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post
I think all mid to high end AVRs and Pre/pros will have separate settings for each.
I guess the Yamaha Aventage line does not fall in that category.
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post #42 of 47 Old 04-07-2011, 04:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post
I think you're confused. You're either referring to the "crossover frequency" in the receiver's Bass Management, or you're referring to the LPF on the sub? Either way, neither of those is what this thread is about. It's about the LPF of LFE built into modern receivers and pre/pros. If you have an older receiver, you may not have an LPF of LFE in your receiver.

The LPF of LFE only became a feature when the lossless codec's were introduced. Prior to their introduction, the LFE channel was brick-wall filtered at 120 Hz in the recording process. Therefore, it contained nothing above 120 Hz, and no filter was needed. Because the lossless codec's allowed the LFE channel to contain full range content, a filter was added on the playback end to cut it off at an appropriate frequency. Since content above about 80 Hz can start to cause subwoofer lacalizability, a setting of the filter above 80 to 120 Hz is not advised.

Craig

Dolby Digital receivers have always had an LFE filter. On some units the LFE filter is not adjustable, so it does not show up in any menu. Just cause you can't see an adjustment on a menu does not mean that there is no filter.

Just as a side note, my receiver has an adjustable LFE filter. Frequency range from 40 to 200 Hz in 10 Hz steps. Same range for my independent crossovers.

Depending on your specific BM setup, an LFE filter setting different than 120 Hz may be desirable to use. The LFE filter setting may have a dual use in some BM modes (the LFE channel filter plus an second overall subwoofer LP filter).

That being said, I set the LFE filter on my system to 120 Hz. That frequency is marked as standard instead of being marked as 120 Hz in my receiver's menu.
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post #43 of 47 Old 04-07-2011, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post

Dolby Digital receivers have always had an LFE filter. On some units the LFE filter is not adjustable, so it does not show up in any menu. Just cause you can't see an adjustment on a menu does not mean that there is no filter.

A lot of older receivers used the Bass Management strategy of summing the redirected bass with the LFE channel and then exposing the entire signal to the crossover. This would cut the LFE track like an LPF of LFE, but it would also do so at the frequency of the crossover. Folks using a low crossover frequency, (i.e., 40 or 60 Hz), were exposing the LFE track to those low crossovers and really losing valuable LFE content. The separate and adjustable LPF of LFE is a much better strategy.

Craig

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post #44 of 47 Old 06-10-2012, 01:11 AM
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I think I understand this topic:

I have a Teufel Theater 8 THX-UltraII 5.1 speaker setup (http://www.areadvd.de/hardware/teufeltheater8.shtml). Am I correct with the following statements:

1. If I set the Crossover Frequency to 70Hz everything that contains bass in the signal that is send to the fronts, center and rears gets cut of and played by my subwoofer.
2. If I set the LPF of LFE on 120Hz all content in the (5).1 (LFE signal) up to 120Hz is produced my my subwoofer. Condition of this is to set the crossover on the subwoofer to OFF

Problem is that I still don t know what to choose:

1. the setting LFE or LFE+MAIN
and
2. speaker setting Small or Large
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post #45 of 47 Old 08-17-2012, 01:07 AM
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Guys, I need to know something (I know what the LPF of LFE setting does):

What if my AVR (Denon 2808) DOES NOT have a LPF of LFE setting? What will happen with the LFE content from 80Hz and up? Will I lose it or does it mean that when a AVR does not have the LPF of LFE option it sends all the LFE signal by default to the subwoofer without a upper filter?
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post #46 of 47 Old 08-17-2012, 06:20 AM
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My Marantz SR6003 does not have an LPF of LFE setting. My understanding is that if there's no option to adjust that LPF, it's most likely fixed at 120Hz.
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post #47 of 47 Old 08-17-2012, 07:43 PM
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I set it the highest it will go. Since it affects the life channel only no reason the filter out what the sound engineer wanted in there. I have meassured the lfe channel and there is harmonic content above 80 Hz. No reason to filter it out imo
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