Official Chase Home Theater Owners Thread - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 866 Old 01-17-2013, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

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Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post

Loving my subs so far. Still not used to adjusting the level of the subs for different recordings, etc. I guess for the most true representation of the recording everything should be level matched? If that is how you do it I am in the like the sub hot category.

Andrew was kind enough to come over again and aside from talking me into another amp and 4 more subs he adjusted everything and had Audyssey do it's thing. Sounds really good and is a huge improvement from what I had before. No fault of my components, speakers or subs but I really want to feel like I am at a concert when I watch concert DVD's. Looks like 4 more subs will be ordered soon. Due to space I will be going with 4 of the SS-18.1 passive subs. Looks like 4 more subs, another Crest CC4000 and probably move up to a Denon 4311 so I can adjust the audio settings on the fly.

This is still Latin to me but here is a snapshot of my subs thanks to Andrew. Looks like flat to about 14hz? After the additional subs I will toy with the idea of adding an EQ. That will also give me some time to figure out what an EQ will do for me!


BTW, when I look at that graph I would not say flat to 14hz, I would say flat to 6hz! The 15-40hz is just a huge peak to me and would lower that as one broad peak. Adding the additional subs will give you the headroom to stay flat up at louder levels. I would set the center frequency to 29hz with a cut of 6-10 dBs and play around with the Q. The lower the Q the greater the range. So a Q of .1 would cover a very large range. Someone who knows this better can tell you exactly what to use. I just tweak and measure, tweak again and measure. I keep doing that until I get it the flattest because it takes seconds.

I wonder what the measured sweep was, 90db 85db 100db? I'm betting on or about 100db. What was the smoothing? 1/6?
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post #362 of 866 Old 01-17-2013, 06:21 PM
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Sweep was done about 95DB. 1/24 smoothing applied.
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post #363 of 866 Old 01-18-2013, 10:04 AM
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Here is the setup so far. Plan on adding 4 more CHT 18.1 subs in the near future.




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post #364 of 866 Old 01-18-2013, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post

Here is the setup so far. Plan on adding 4 more CHT 18.1 subs in the near future.

I hope those walls aren't plaster. They may not last long once you get the 4 extra subs in there wink.gif

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post #365 of 866 Old 01-18-2013, 05:56 PM
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Nope, standard studs and drywall. It will be interesting when the additional 4 subs do come. I've got a bit of wire running to do but it shouldn't be too bad.

Lots of hard surfaces and I am sure some acoustical panels would improve the sound. All in due time...
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post #366 of 866 Old 01-24-2013, 12:46 PM
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Really enjoying the 2 CHT 18.2's and can't wait to order the additional 4 subs!!! Just need to get my 2 Caps sold before I make any more purchases.
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post #367 of 866 Old 01-24-2013, 09:22 PM
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Just sold off a complete Polk 7.1 system in order to get into the Chase Home Theater world. I received my two PRO-10s and SHO-10 yesterday. You can read about it in my threads here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1394237/my-theater-room-build/30
and here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1444245/trade-polks-for-chase-home-theater-or-hsu


Here are pics of my new setup:



Here is an excerpt from my thread, that may get a little more attention here:
I am not sure how I like this current setup. The speakers themselves sound great; but I have not calibrated or really demoed the speakers yet, but while listening at relatively low volumes (watching TV, sports) the center channel doesn't sound right. It is off-center in regards to the entertainment stand itself, but my main listening position is also off-center, and thus directly in-line with the speaker. I have the tweeter on the left side so that it is closer to the center of the room, and therefore closer to the other listening positions. Still, I can't help but feel that my ears "find" the speaker too easily. Everything sounds like it is coming from the right of the room, and from below the picture. I have the front of the cabinet elevated so that the tweeter points to ear level. It might be that I am just used to having my Polk CSi5 centered on the top shelf, closer to ear height. Perhaps over time I will adapt, but for now it sounds a little odd...so if anyone has suggestions, please feel free to chime in!

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post #368 of 866 Old 01-25-2013, 10:13 AM
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I would figure out a way to get it centered and under/over the TV. It will never sound as good in its current location.

Cheers, Joe
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post #369 of 866 Old 01-25-2013, 12:10 PM
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I would figure out a way to get it centered and under/over the TV. It will never sound as good in its current location.

Cheers, Joe

Why?

And having it "centered" would place the center to the left of my main listening position. So while it will be a better location for the other seating, it will be off-axis for me (and I am usually watching by myself anyway). Its placement now - a little "off-center" 'to the right - puts the speaker directly in-line with my ears.

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post #370 of 866 Old 01-25-2013, 12:17 PM
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At the very least you need to angle the center speaker up towards your ear. Ideally the tweeters should be at ear level when you are in your listening position.
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post #371 of 866 Old 01-25-2013, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by KtrainHurricane View Post

Why?

And having it "centered" would place the center to the left of my main listening position. So while it will be a better location for the other seating, it will be off-axis for me (and I am usually watching by myself anyway). Its placement now - a little "off-center" 'to the right - puts the speaker directly in-line with my ears.

Why not swap your receiver location on top of that stand with the center channel?

Alternative: Relocate equipment rack to other part of the room and hang center channel just underneath the TV.
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post #372 of 866 Old 01-25-2013, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by KtrainHurricane View Post

Why?

And having it "centered" would place the center to the left of my main listening position. So while it will be a better location for the other seating, it will be off-axis for me (and I am usually watching by myself anyway). Its placement now - a little "off-center" 'to the right - puts the speaker directly in-line with my ears.

Didn't you just say:
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Originally Posted by KtrainHurricane View Post

Everything sounds like it is coming from the right of the room, and from below the picture. I have the front of the cabinet elevated so that the tweeter points to ear level. It might be that I am just used to having my Polk CSi5 centered on the top shelf, closer to ear height.

And the speaker just happens to be to the right and below the TV wink.gif. The purpose of a center channel speaker is to anchor the sonic image of the dialog and most of the other sound to the screen. Wherever you put the center speaker is where sound will appear to come from. From your pictures it appears that your main listening position is only about 2ft to the right of center. Your off access angle should be well within the design radiation pattern of the compression horn and waveguide. Just for fun, move the center speaker to a centered position under the TV...Listen... then move it to your current position...Listen... I bet you a Slurpee that it sounds noticeably better centered directly under the TV. You are also getting more reflection from the floor in your current location, that tends to negatively effect the sound quality. Just do some experimenting and let us know what you find out.


Cheers, Joe
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post #373 of 866 Old 01-25-2013, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post

At the very least you need to angle the center speaker up towards your ear. Ideally the tweeters should be at ear level when you are in your listening position.
The speaker is tilted so that the tweeter is pointing at my ears, which I said in the previous post.
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Why not swap your receiver location on top of that stand with the center channel?

Alternative: Relocate equipment rack to other part of the room and hang center channel just underneath the TV.
The original setup I had is the first one you suggested. In thread that I posted the url to, you can see pictures of this; the speaker cabinet itself is too tall and interferes with the sensor on the TV for the remote/3D. I tried re-mounting the TV brackets and adjusting the stand to get it to clear, but it is not possible.

The "equipment rack" and the stand holding the TV are one in the same; so relocating it would leave me with no place to put the TV (can't be hung on the wall because there is a window behind the curtain).
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Didn't you just say:
And the speaker just happens to be to the right and below the TV wink.gif. The purpose of a center channel speaker is to anchor the sonic image of the dialog and most of the other sound to the screen. Wherever you put the center speaker is where sound will appear to come from. From your pictures it appears that your main listening position is only about 2ft to the right of center. Your off access angle should be well within the design radiation pattern of the compression horn and waveguide. Just for fun, move the center speaker to a centered position under the TV...Listen... then move it to your current position...Listen... I bet you a Slurpee that it sounds noticeably better centered directly under the TV. You are also getting more reflection from the floor in your current location, that tends to negatively effect the sound quality. Just do some experimenting and let us know what you find out.


Cheers, Joe
Thanks for this info. My original thinking was that the speaker would sound best pointed directly in front of me (so I am receiving all the sound), but your description made a lot of sense and I now realize why I was wrong. I am sure "experimenting" won't be necessary; this just leaves me with an ugly silver cable box on the top shelf of my black entertainment stand, next to my black receiver, and under my black TV =(

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post #374 of 866 Old 01-26-2013, 10:24 AM
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Just ordered 4 more of the CHT subs. That'll give me 2 of the 18.2's and 4 of the 18.1's. I'm pretty sure the end of my upgrades is near. Looking to sell my Crest amp to get a second, matching inuke6000dsp amp and then sell the Onkyo PRSC886 to get a Denon 4311. After that I should be good for a long time!
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post #375 of 866 Old 01-26-2013, 10:31 AM
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I'm pretty sure the end of my upgrades is near.

What! No Buttkickers to go with those subs? wink.gif

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post #376 of 866 Old 01-26-2013, 10:40 AM
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What! No Buttkickers to go with those subs? wink.gif

Nah, I mostly watch concert DVD's. Although, when it comes to HT stuff I can usually be talked into anything!!
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post #377 of 866 Old 01-26-2013, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muzikal-JRNE View Post

Just for fun, move the center speaker to a centered position under the TV...Listen...


Cheers, Joe

After thinking about this some more, I came up with a new question: what exactly am I "centering"? The cabinet? The tweeter? The woofer? The way it sits right now (cabinet off-center to the right), the tweeter is pretty much centered under the TV; if I center the cabinet itself, then the tweeter will either be off-center to the left or right (depending on which way I lay the speaker on its side)...

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post #378 of 866 Old 01-26-2013, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KtrainHurricane View Post

After thinking about this some more, I came up with a new question: what exactly am I "centering"? The cabinet? The tweeter? The woofer? The way it sits right now (cabinet off-center to the right), the tweeter is pretty much centered under the TV; if I center the cabinet itself, then the tweeter will either be off-center to the left or right (depending on which way I lay the speaker on its side)...

It isn't like you're carving out stone to make a place to put the speaker. Put it in the middle and watch some movies. If it sounds skewed, then move it.

Everything you're doing can easily be changed back. You're displaying symptoms of paralysis by analysis.

You might consider a wall-mount for the TV and standing the CC vertically to match the L&R.

Two would seem to be two too many to me too.
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post #379 of 866 Old 01-26-2013, 08:48 PM
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It isn't like you're carving out stone to make a place to put the speaker. Put it in the middle and watch some movies. If it sounds skewed, then move it.

Everything you're doing can easily be changed back. You're displaying symptoms of paralysis by analysis.

You might consider a wall-mount for the TV and standing the CC vertically to match the L&R.

I have already stated that wall-mounting is not possible because there is a window behind that curtain.

And as far as my question about what should be centered, I am just curious. Yes, I understand that whatever position sounds right to me is where it should be...but I would like to know the "rule-of-thum" (if you will) just...well just because I would like to know.

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post #380 of 866 Old 01-26-2013, 09:26 PM
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Having the speaker off center, to the right, is likely the reason why "everything sounds like it is coming from the right of the room."

IMHO, you should center the cabinet. It is the collective sound of both tweeter AND woofer which defines where the sound is coming from.

The tweeter waveguide has a 90 degree horizontal dispersion pattern. If you center the cabinet, and you are sitting within that dispersion quadrant, even though you may be sitting off center, you should be getting virtually as much from the tweeter as if you were sitting directly in front of it.

Judging by the photo, you have the center channel too low which is why everything from the center sounds detached from the picture (low). If you could get the center closer to the screen, that problem would be solved.

If it were me, I'd switch the receiver and the center channel speaker, center the speaker, and put the knick knacks on either side of it as you originally had things. As for the speaker blocking The TVs IR sensor, that easiliy can be solved by using an inexpensive IR repeater like this one from Monoprice.com.

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post #381 of 866 Old 01-26-2013, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by KtrainHurricane View Post

I have already stated that wall-mounting is not possible because there is a window behind that curtain.

And as far as my question about what should be centered, I am just curious. Yes, I understand that whatever position sounds right to me is where it should be...but I would like to know the "rule-of-thum" (if you will) just...well just because I would like to know.

Right, then. Sorry.
In that case, maybe you'd consider having the TV's mounting post lengthened (or replaced with one that's longer) or, if possible, drill new holes that would locate the TV a bit higher. It seems like it was fairly close to clearing as is.

I don't see the benefit of someone offering a guess at what should be the acoustic center of that design. If you place the speaker according to that guess and it doesn't sound right, you'd then scoot it over a smidge (or flip it over to its other side) until it does sound right.
This reminds me of my engineering buddy who boiled his truck's engine hardware before assembly. After boiling, he bagged and catalogued the hardware.
It's been three years and his truck's engine compartment is still empty. It's a good thing he catalogued those bolts.

Two would seem to be two too many to me too.
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post #382 of 866 Old 01-26-2013, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Rijax View Post

Having the speaker off center, to the right, is likely the reason why "everything sounds like it is coming from the right of the room."

IMHO, you should center the cabinet. It is the collective sound of both tweeter AND woofer which defines where the sound is coming from.

The tweeter waveguide has a 90 degree horizontal dispersion pattern. If you center the cabinet, and you are sitting within that dispersion quadrant, even though you may be sitting off center, you should be getting virtually as much from the tweeter as if you were sitting directly in front of it.

Judging by the photo, you have the center channel too low which is why everything from the center sounds detached from the picture (low). If you could get the center closer to the screen, that problem would be solved.

If it were me, I'd switch the receiver and the center channel speaker, center the speaker, and put the knick knacks on either side of it as you originally had things. As for the speaker blocking The TVs IR sensor, that easiliy can be solved by using an inexpensive IR repeater like this one from Monoprice.com.

The other reason why I cannot have the center channel on the top shelf (besides the IR sensor) is because when lowered, my motorized screen comes into contact with the speaker becasue it's too tall. I may have mentioned that before, and if not here then I definitely did on the thread I posted a link to. I have been messing around with it for the past hour or so, and will post pics of what I came up with soon. May have found a common ground that will end up being the best I can get...

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post #383 of 866 Old 01-26-2013, 11:26 PM
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I have been messing around with it for the past hour or so, and will post pics of what I came up with soon. May have found a common ground that will end up being the best I can get...




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post #384 of 866 Old 01-27-2013, 05:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KtrainHurricane View Post

The other reason why I cannot have the center channel on the top shelf (besides the IR sensor) is because when lowered, my motorized screen comes into contact with the speaker becasue it's too tall. I may have mentioned that before, and if not here then I definitely did on the thread I posted a link to. I have been messing around with it for the past hour or so, and will post pics of what I came up with soon. May have found a common ground that will end up being the best I can get...

Sorry, I probably missed the part about the screen. Hope you find a solution that satisfies. smile.gif

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post #385 of 866 Old 01-27-2013, 06:57 AM
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I have been messing around with it for the past hour or so, and will post pics of what I came up with soon. May have found a common ground that will end up being the best I can get...
Looks like you've resolved your problem! smile.gif

FWIW, and if that solution doesn't work out, another simple solution would be to place the SHO-10 on a speaker stand immediately in front of the TV stand, and the AVR and cable box on the lower shelf of the TV stand. A speaker stand of the proper height would ensure that the speaker didn't interfere with either the screen or the TV's IR sensor; the stand's vertical post shouldn't interfere with the IR sensors on the components; and unless you routinely move stuff onto / off of the TV stand, the speaker+stand shouldn't physically interfere with your set-up, either.

That being said, congrats on the new speakers! cool.gif I look forward to hearing your thoughts on them once you've broken them in a bit and had a chance to re-calibrate and enjoy your set-up. (I've had a chance to hear SHO-10s across the front w/ SS-18.1s in both my HT room and in my buddy's set-up. Very impressive, IMO.)
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post #386 of 866 Old 01-27-2013, 07:11 AM
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KatriniaHurriane.. Your room is screaming for a false wall and an acoustically transparent screen smile.gif
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post #387 of 866 Old 01-27-2013, 12:18 PM
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Swapped out the Crest CC4000 amp for my new inuke6000dsp. Who knows if I connected it properly (used an XLR splitter to connect to both A&B channels of input on inuke) but it certainly sounds good and hits hard. I have not messed with any of the dsp settings, just plugged it in and turned it on.

Even with Audyssey kicking my ass my system is getting closer to being really impressive. Once the 4 additional subs show up and everything is hooked up and calibrated this should really ROCK. Then of course comes the Denon 4311 upgrade, a few acoustical treatments and that should be it.
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post #388 of 866 Old 01-27-2013, 02:00 PM
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KatriniaHurriane.. Your room is screaming for a false wall and an acoustically transparent screen smile.gif

I know man, I know tongue.gif

The upgradeitis is never ending...

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post #389 of 866 Old 01-27-2013, 02:17 PM
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KtrainHurricane, your center is never going to sound right until you stand it up vertically. Simply getting a stand like this and placing it in front of your tv stand will solve all of your SQ issues.

http://www.gwizpro.com/stands/proddetail.php?prod=SCStands
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post #390 of 866 Old 01-27-2013, 02:29 PM
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

KtrainHurricane, your center is never going to sound right until you stand it up vertically. Simply getting a stand like this and placing it in front of your tv stand will solve all of your SQ issues.

http://www.gwizpro.com/stands/proddetail.php?prod=SCStands

He'll figure it out. I remember when he was unhappy with the Paradigm Cinema set he started with (you came a long way, KtrainHurricane). Some times you got work through it all to know what step to take next smile.gif

Your questions are answered: Speaker FAQ
HT: Energy RC-50, RC-LCR, Veritas VS Surrounds | Dual CHT SS 18.1s | Denon AVR-888 | modified Dayton SA1000 | Antimode 8033C
Desktop: CBM-170 SE | SVS SB-1000 | Audio-GD NFB-11 | HK 3390
Headphone & Portable HE-400 | K612 Pro | HP150 | DX50 | E12
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