Official Chase Home Theater Owners Thread - Page 28 - AVS Forum
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post #811 of 866 Old 12-13-2013, 11:23 AM
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Teach?

"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
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post #812 of 866 Old 12-13-2013, 11:26 AM
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I think it's something like those who can design speakers, do. Those who cannot, import from China, slap their name on them and pretend they designed them because if anyone asks questions we can just ban them.
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post #813 of 866 Old 12-13-2013, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Jon Lane View Post

Those who can, do. Those who cannot.

Since you are jumping in here Jon I'm assuming your on board with Cc shenanigans over the last few years? Or are we going to see a whole new game plan with merge?

With cc you ask his "questions" or you get banned. Maybe the new site will be more helpful.
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post #814 of 866 Old 12-13-2013, 11:41 AM
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Teach?

Yes. But I'd prefer to point to the popular British saying about how some get so far up their own as to lose their own narrative,
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Since your jumping in here Jon I'm assuming your on board with Cc shenanigans over the last few years?

...of which begging the question is probably a version thereof.
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Maybe the new site will be more helpful.

What's helpful is listening experience. Nearly everything else is bench-racing. Those who can, do...

“Reason can be fought with reason. How are you going to fight the unreasonable? The trouble with you, my dear, and with most people, is that you don’t have sufficient respect for the senseless. The senseless is the major factor in our lives. You have no chance if it is your enemy.”

― Ayn Rand

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post #815 of 866 Old 12-13-2013, 12:51 PM
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“People think that a liar gains a victory over his victim. What I’ve learned is that a lie is an act of self-abdication, because one surrenders one’s reality to the person to whom one lies, making that person one’s master, condemning oneself from then on to faking the sort of reality that person’s view requires to be faked…The man who lies to the world, is the world’s slave from then on…There are no white lies, there is only the blackest of destruction, and a white lie is the blackest of all.”
― Ayn Rand
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"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
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post #816 of 866 Old 12-13-2013, 01:06 PM
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Touche
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post #817 of 866 Old 12-13-2013, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

“People think that a liar gains a victory over his victim. What I’ve learned is that a lie is an act of self-abdication, because one surrenders one’s reality to the person to whom one lies, making that person one’s master, condemning oneself from then on to faking the sort of reality that person’s view requires to be faked…The man who lies to the world, is the world’s slave from then on…There are no white lies, there is only the blackest of destruction, and a white lie is the blackest of all.”
― Ayn Rand

Exactly. Arguing the false narrative substitutes it for fact. It is 'repeating the lie often enough'.

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post #818 of 866 Old 12-13-2013, 01:56 PM
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Specifics would be appreciated.

"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
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post #819 of 866 Old 12-13-2013, 02:09 PM
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Actually, the necessity of proof always lies with the person who lays charges. In this scenario, since you are accusing Chase of making false claims with the Theater-10, Chase carries the burden of assumption, where the burden of proof is on he who declares, not on he who denies, which means he needs no evidence to support his claim. This is popularly known as presumption of innocence or 'innocent until proven guilty.' Fulfilling the burden of proof effectively captures the benefit of assumption, passing the burden of proof off to another party. Objectively speaking with the help of Wikipedia cool.gif. Carry on.

Interesting that it only took a flip of the page in this thread for accusations of misconception, misinformation, innuendo, slander, false premises, false narratives, and lies:
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As for the tone and substance of some of the other browbeatings and dead horse beatings that occur and reoccur, frankly, considering the remarkable amount of misconception, misinformation, innuendo, and even slander in some venues, whatever we're working on isn't going to be discussed much until it's available.

I've been at this nearly 35 years and while I'd hoped that things generally improve in life, sadly the quality of dialog may not be one of them. The last thing I intend to spend my time doing is addressing yet another a false premise looking for oxygen.
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Exactly. Arguing the false narrative substitutes it for fact. It is 'repeating the lie often enough'.

Except in this scenario, the "burden of proof defender" is nowhere to be found. rolleyes.gif
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post #820 of 866 Old 12-13-2013, 06:10 PM
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Comment very much appreciated. Thank you.

And seconded by me, Jax. I hope you and yours are well. cool.gif
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post #821 of 866 Old 12-13-2013, 06:15 PM
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Doin' OK. Thanks Bosso. smile.gif

Probably not the place to do this, but I have no idea where else to say it. Wishing all here a calm, peaceful, happy holiday season.
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post #822 of 866 Old 12-13-2013, 06:59 PM
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Check out vbizz.com, Skyline.
Thank you. I'm drooling over the wide selections of Crown amps.
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post #823 of 866 Old 12-13-2013, 07:09 PM
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Now, that's not the only place in Malasia but given the wide variety of products, it makes for a good starting point. You'll also find quite a large variety of speakers and something must be in your price range. See what their return policy is and you should be able to find several that suit your ears. Also, you'll generally find that these shops do a brisk business in used equipment often with some sort of warranty. Happy hunting.

"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
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post #824 of 866 Old 12-14-2013, 08:54 AM
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Are you suggesting that I look at something else besides the VS 18.1? My room is 14'w x 22'L x 11'H. I was told the vs 18.1 should go well below 30h Hz.

Like others that have provided input I also have dual VS18.1's running with a single Dayton in my 3300cu. ft. dedicated HT. At reference these are incredible subs even with the lowly Dayton and I get flat to 18Hz without jumping through any hoops. I have yet to clip the amp even when pushing them to uncomfortable levels - think Mike Tyson punch to the guts. I also have the amp inside the space so would never trade any amount of fan noise for a smidgen of output or a couple of Hz extension as I would rarely experience it in normal everyday use anyway.

You really have to prioritize what is important to you and how you will listen. This hobby is like any other. When looking for the ultimate sports car you can spend 10's of thousands of dollars to get fractions of second better performance but are you a track day kind of guy or will this car be for the street? No difference here some get so hung up on the really small things that when you read through the forum they tend to look like massive problems. I have been listening to the SHO-10's and dual VS18.1 in my HT now for more than a year. It would take something really special to get me to spend the multi-thousands of dollars required to best it.

Go over to the Chase forum and try to find someone locally that will give you a listen. If money is an issue and you do not want the hassle of building it yourself this sub is an excellent option and has made a lot of people happy.
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post #825 of 866 Old 01-10-2014, 06:01 PM
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Latest word on the ChaseHT forum is that the new Chane site is on the verge of going live. No indication of what the new domain name is, though.

I'm curious to see what the new site and the new products look like.

And I wish Craig Chase and Jon Lane all the best with their new and joint venture. cool.gif

-- Edit --
A January 4 entry on TheAudioInsider forum indicates an expected launch date of Monday, January 13.
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post #826 of 866 Old 01-10-2014, 06:11 PM
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Joint venture? Are they in Colorado?
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"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
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post #827 of 866 Old 01-10-2014, 06:15 PM
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post #828 of 866 Old 01-13-2014, 03:40 PM
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Hmmm...Monday has come and is almost gone and still no Chane website. And no status update on either the ChaseHT or the TIA forum.

Maybe tomorrow...
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post #829 of 866 Old 01-14-2014, 07:00 AM
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FYI - and FWIW - Jon Lane posted a comment on HTS this a.m. regarding product announcements and the Chane website:
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We'll have news to report within the next few weeks. The new Chane site will go live about the same time.
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post #830 of 866 Old 01-17-2014, 02:07 PM
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post #831 of 866 Old 05-30-2014, 02:07 PM
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The old SS-18.1 has been measured at Data-Bass...smile.gif

http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=101
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post #832 of 866 Old 05-30-2014, 02:26 PM
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post #833 of 866 Old 05-30-2014, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laugsbach View Post

The old SS-18.1 has been measured at Data-Bass...smile.gif

http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=101

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Looks almost exactly as Bossobass predicted it would, refuting the manufacturer's numerous claims.
Yup, this isn't a surprise based on my listening. Great midbass, but lacked in the deep bass dept where it would start to sound bad pretty quickly when pushed.
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post #834 of 866 Old 05-30-2014, 06:11 PM
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Huh,

Makes horrendus noises and distortion when it receives 400-500 watts at 20hz.

You mean like at the end of a 100hz to 20hz sine wave at a certain meet in 2012?

Whoda thunk?

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post #835 of 866 Old 05-30-2014, 08:51 PM
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This one was a no-brainer from day one.

I dislike being called a liar multiple times in public. The whole "you have an agenda" thing never bothered me but a liar I am not nor have I ever been.

CC should have left sleeping dogs lie and reported accurate data for his product.

LilGator was banned over the whole mess. In e-mail, he sent me a close mic response at my request. Here it is, precisely normalized to Josh's graph and overlaid onto Josh's GP measurement:

0ae972fdd2899f915d498b94c51dae4b.jpg

'Nuff said.
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post #836 of 866 Old 05-30-2014, 09:21 PM
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Now that this has been put to bed, I would love to see a concerted effort against receiver manufacturer power ratings. Over and over receivers are rated at 110 x 5 wpc by companies like Pioneer, Onkyo etc., and are tested to actually have more like 40x 5 wpc.

To me, this is no different than what chase did, but correct me if I am wrong.

Dave
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post #837 of 866 Old 05-30-2014, 10:19 PM
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I'm puzzled by the fact that the SS-18.1 was even being tested at this time, given that it was discontinued when Chase became Chane roughly six months ago. confused.gif
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post #838 of 866 Old 05-30-2014, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

I'm puzzled by the fact that the SS-18.1 was even being tested at this time, given that it was discontinued when Chase became Chane roughly six months ago. confused.gif
Perhaps that's when CC is ready for 3rd party reviews? biggrin.gif
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post #839 of 866 Old 05-31-2014, 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted by bossobass View Post

This one was a no-brainer from day one.

I dislike being called a liar multiple times in public. The whole "you have an agenda" thing never bothered me but a liar I am not nor have I ever been.

CC should have left sleeping dogs lie and reported accurate data for his product.

LilGator was banned over the whole mess. In e-mail, he sent me a close mic response at my request. Here it is, precisely normalized to Josh's graph and overlaid onto Josh's GP measurement:




'Nuff said.



Compare that with the LMS Ultra 5400 basic chart.


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post #840 of 866 Old 05-31-2014, 08:54 AM
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eljaycanuck,

I'm a big believer in science, and that adding to the cumulative wealth of knowledge in any subject is a good thing, especially when there are questions of particular claims. So, it is critically important that the community now has verified, tested performance measurements of this sub, because there needs to be independent testing of manufacturer's performance claims, especially when they change so much over time.

This independent testing validates the community's concerns about the claims made for these sealed subs. Previous testing validated the manufacturer's claims about its ported offering. Testing is an important mediator between producer and consumer.

The DIY & GTG community was right that these sealed subs couldn't possibly perform anywhere close to the manufacturer's claims, that the sub drivers do make bad noises with 400-500W once they are asked to output in the frequency range that's the wheelhouse of most other sealed configurations (below 30Hz), and that the manufacturer was fudging/fabricating/outright lying about the claimed performance of their sealed subs.

You can choose to feel about the company and its performance claims however you want, but I think there are two distinct possibilities regarding claims of its sealed sub performance that we now know were wrong:

1) They were lying and knew from their own modeling and testing that these subs wouldn't perform as well as claimed. Unfortunately, this is pretty common in many industries, especially audio/visual and car sales.

2) They were incompetent because they couldn't perform their own testing of the subs and, thus, were blowing smoke and had to backtrack by changing their claims and making excuses for the changes once called out. This is, again unfortunately, also pretty common.
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