Official Chase Home Theater Owners Thread - Page 5 - AVS Forum
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post #121 of 854 Old 04-01-2011, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by floridapoolboy View Post

So that would make the F3 point around 31hz, correct?

At a 125db sweep level, yes (I think that is what the chart is showing), but I don't believe anyone quotes the F3 at that kind of level ... hence why seeing the rest of the sweeps would be more enlightening. Very flat out to 200hz though which is nice for people wanting to use the sub with smaller monitors. But good lord that's a large sub (40" tall!). Guess that's why it's not called a "WAF CV18.1".

 

My DIY Subs ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1233892

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post #122 of 854 Old 04-13-2011, 01:33 PM
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At a 125db sweep level, yes (I think that is what the chart is showing), but I don't believe anyone quotes the F3 at that kind of level ... hence why seeing the rest of the sweeps would be more enlightening.

AFAIK, F3 is typically calculated at a SPL equal to the sensitivity of the driver, or in other words, it is derived from the FR @ 1W/1M

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post #123 of 854 Old 05-20-2011, 09:30 AM - Thread Starter
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After much procrastination and tweaking, I am finally posting my FQ graph. For those that said manual FQ testing with just tones and a Rat Shack meter was a pain in a**, well you were all right and then some.



I had a large peak in the mid 30's followed by deep null at 45. Moving the subs along the front wall about 3 feet flattened things up a bit and I used the PEQ to flatten the remaining peak in the 30's as best I can. Its not perfect by any stretch but quite a bit better then when I started.

The room is 30'x15'x7.5' but also has a double door space opening into the hallway. Hopefully this will be closed off eventually.

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post #124 of 854 Old 05-20-2011, 11:57 AM
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Latest setup pictures: treated screen wall and window inserts...next up ceiling reflection point for center.

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post #125 of 854 Old 05-21-2011, 03:15 PM
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Watched the new AC/DC DVD today. My 18.1 series one did a great job with the bass. Didn't bother getting my RS meter to see how loud I was playing it, but the kick drums were hitting with that good ole chest pound bass. I was really impressed when the cannons on "for those about to rock" that the 18.1 could play the bass of the drum then the explosions when the cannons shot.

Great DVD by the way if you like AC/DC.
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post #126 of 854 Old 05-23-2011, 02:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Husker....I know I said it before, but that front wall looks awesome.

I don't have any cool picts of my own, so I will "borrow"...thanks Jeremy


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post #127 of 854 Old 07-29-2011, 07:35 PM
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New 2012 Lineup to be shipping by October 1. Sweet. Including the VS-18.1.

Check out the forum, nice aesthetic changes. (flush mounting, 2" thick baffles...)
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post #128 of 854 Old 07-29-2011, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post

New 2012 Lineup to be shipping by October 1. Sweet. Including the VS-18.1.

Check out the forum, nice aesthetic changes. (flush mounting, 2" thick baffles...)

Better paint? ;-D
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post #129 of 854 Old 07-29-2011, 08:36 PM
 
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Grills?
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post #130 of 854 Old 07-29-2011, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Pure-Evil View Post

Better paint? ;-D

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Originally Posted by floridapoolboy View Post

Grills?

Well, I think the paint is improved already!

But you guys will really appreciate how the drivers will be flush mounted with a 2" deep baffle and grills to match the availabe speaker lineup.

Excited?
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post #131 of 854 Old 07-29-2011, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post


Well, I think the paint is improved already!

But you guys will really appreciate how the drivers will be flush mounted with a 2" deep baffle and grills to match the availabe speaker lineup.

Excited?

Oh yes. I think I have wood. ;-) lol
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post #132 of 854 Old 07-29-2011, 09:11 PM
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Here, let me get out the magnifying glass.

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post #133 of 854 Old 07-29-2011, 09:13 PM
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But you guys will really appreciate how the drivers will be flush mounted with a 2" deep baffle and grills to match the availabe speaker lineup.

Until that baffle and those grilles are "pro reviewed", I will refuse to believe anyone's opinion that they are "nice" or "slick" or even "cool"!
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post #134 of 854 Old 07-30-2011, 07:16 AM
 
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Until that baffle and those grilles are "pro reviewed", I will refuse to believe anyone's opinion that they are "nice" or "slick" or even "cool"!

Nah, a few comments by some random people on the internet will suffice. I may want to buy a full 7.2 setup if more than one person says they "rock"!
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post #135 of 854 Old 07-30-2011, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by floridapoolboy View Post


Nah, a few comments by some random people on the internet will suffice. I may want to buy a full 7.2 setup if more than one person says they "rock"!

We all know how you feel about Chase. Nothing they do will be good enough. Why are you posting in the owners thread again?
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post #136 of 854 Old 07-30-2011, 07:41 AM
 
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We all know how you feel about Chase. Nothing they do will be good enough. Why are you posting in the owners thread again?

As I said, if these changes are as great as is being suggested I may in fact want to become an owner, such is the power of the internet! I'm not yet an owner, however, so feel free to ignore my postings.
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post #137 of 854 Old 07-30-2011, 08:08 AM
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FPB you are, if nothing else, persistent

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post #138 of 854 Old 07-30-2011, 08:17 AM
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You need an AT screen. Ceiling mounted (that's what you have) CC is a really bad idea.

Otherwise, looks like a fun little system ...

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Latest setup pictures: treated screen wall and window inserts...next up ceiling reflection point for center.



HToM

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post #139 of 854 Old 07-30-2011, 08:40 AM
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As an ACTUAL owner...pause...making sure I am in the right thread here of the first run of 18.2 subs right at a year now I am happy to say it has been a flawless performer. Since having this sub I can see where the DIY guys come from. There is no replacement for displacement and multiples thereof as far as bass reproduction is concerned for that true home theater experience. The bang for the buck on these products IMO is up there with DIY and now that the aesthetics part is getting better more people with the WAF issue can take a look. Having owned several previous subs that were very good performers in their own right then stepping up to this I can truly say it was a step up in performance for me. My next step will be DIY project no doubt but is on the back burner until a dedicated theater room comes into the picture sometime in the future.
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post #140 of 854 Old 07-30-2011, 09:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by floridapoolboy View Post

+1! An owners thread would make it more difficult to attract potential new customers, since it would be by definition set up for existing owners. By using "shootout" threads and the like and having people continuously bump them to the top the product name keeps getting pushed. Classic ID marketing strategy.

Of course, by posting this i've bumped the name to the top as well.....you're welcome!


Ah...hope springs eternal.

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post #141 of 854 Old 07-30-2011, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

You need an AT screen. Ceiling mounted (that's what you have) CC is a really bad idea.

Otherwise, looks like a fun little system ...

RMK-

I know. I didn't plan well enough. I had everything framed and practically drywalled before I realized AT was the way to go.

If I put a ceiling acoustic panel up there for the center do you think that it helps a bit? I was thinking of putting the center below screen, but those are the best locations for my subs, and I want bar seating to still hear the dialogue well.

Problems, problems. What to do, what to do. Move and rebuild, I guess.

Oh, and my bar is secured to the foundation and tiled behind. No AT unless I go smaller screen by 20 inches to 100.


Update: The new CHT subs will also have countersunk drivers. WOO HOO.

Now if we could just get a pesky close mic. Maybe on Oct 22. Then I think some people may have trouble finding something to b#$%) about. Then again, probably not.
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post #142 of 854 Old 07-30-2011, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post

RMK-

I know. I didn't plan well enough. I had everything framed and practically drywalled before I realized AT was the way to go.

If I put a ceiling acoustic panel up there for the center do you think that it helps a bit? I was thinking of putting the center below screen, but those are the best locations for my subs, and I want bar seating to still hear the dialogue well.

Problems, problems. What to do, what to do. Move and rebuild, I guess.

Oh, and my bar is secured to the foundation and tiled behind. No AT unless I go smaller screen by 20 inches to 100.

Maybe I'm missing something here but you could just hang the screen from a plywood valance that attaches to the ceiling (I used L brackets for a 10' X 24" 3/4" plywood (edge trimmed with 1"X2"). I covered this with black fabric and ... instant (almost) screen wall!

You will need slightly more (6" or so) than your speaker depth off of the wall and I used some closet pole braces for the bottom of the screen.

With this concept you would not be limited by the size except I'd leave 12" to 18" on each side for access to your equipment. It will move your screen closer to the main viewing positions but since when is that a bad thing.

Just a thought ...

This is what I did and it works great!

HToM

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post #143 of 854 Old 07-30-2011, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

You need an AT screen. Ceiling mounted (that's what you have) CC is a really bad idea.

Otherwise, looks like a fun little system ...

I agree it looks great but your front three are a large triangle. If center was below screen they would be much more on plane with each other. You could seperate the subs slightly and place cc between pulled away from wall so front slightly in front of subs. You can easily test by taping piece of string or fishing line... just below screen and pulling toward bar seats and see if it would clear front row heads. Worth a try.
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post #144 of 854 Old 07-30-2011, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by floridapoolboy View Post

Nah, a few comments by some random people on the internet will suffice. I may want to buy a full 7.2 setup if more than one person says they "rock"!

Buying one or more pieces of gear from Company A based on...
- professional reviews
and /or
- significant positive feedback from numerous people who own or have owned gear from Company A and who, in most cases, also own or have owned gear from other companies
...is a smart way to shop.

Buying a 7.2 set-up from Company X because...
- "some random people" said that the baffles and grilles "rock"
...is a pretty dumb way to shop.

But, hey, whatever turns your crank...
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post #145 of 854 Old 07-30-2011, 02:12 PM
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I have had my duals for 5 months now. These are the only CS-18.1 series 2 returns CHT has had. I got them at a discount with a pair of WAF-1's thrown in, for a satellite/subwoofer deal of the century.

These subs are in an open floor plan room, still going strong down to 16 Hz, the lowest test tone on my CD.

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post #146 of 854 Old 07-30-2011, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Maybe I'm missing something here but you could just hang the screen from a plywood valance that attaches to the ceiling (I used L brackets for a 10' X 24" 3/4" plywood (edge trimmed with 1"X2"). I covered this with black fabric and ... instant (almost) screen wall!

I could do this, but since the rack is literally 5" from the screen wall, I'd need to practically cut new holes and just make a standard screen wall. Then I'd either need a smalls screen or move back the bar seating. I may just wait until the next house for AT

You will need slightly more (6" or so) than your speaker depth off of the wall and I used some closet pole braces for the bottom of the screen.

With this concept you would not be limited by the size except I'd leave 12" to 18" on each side for access to your equipment. It will move your screen closer to the main viewing positions but since when is that a bad thing.

Just a thought ...

This is what I did and it works great!

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I agree it looks great but your front three are a large triangle. If center was below screen they would be much more on plane with each other. You could seperate the subs slightly and place cc between pulled away from wall so front slightly in front of subs. You can easily test by taping piece of string or fishing line... just below screen and pulling toward bar seats and see if it would clear front row heads. Worth a try.

I might do this before the GTG. All I would need is run longer wire for the center, snake it behind the screen which isn't flush to the wall, and move the subs apart (and find a stand for the center).

My screen wall panels don't totally connect behind the center channel, though, so I'd have to build a tiny insert to put where the wall bracket for the cc was.

I could at least try it...eh?
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post #147 of 854 Old 07-30-2011, 06:47 PM
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So i'm thinking about selling my three klipsch sub-12's to purchase a CS 18.T, can anyone elaborate on how much of an upgrade this is? I realize the CS will hit lower frequencies, and i would assume be less muddy/overall higher quality. But will they be much louder? The 3 sub-12's combined have 900rms of power, while the CS's amp puts out 950. Am I looking at the numbers too much or would the "loudness" be realitively simaler?
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post #148 of 854 Old 07-31-2011, 01:07 AM
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So i'm thinking about selling my three klipsch sub-12's to purchase a CS 18.T, can anyone elaborate on how much of an upgrade this is? I realize the CS will hit lower frequencies, and i would assume be less muddy/overall higher quality. But will they be much louder? The 3 sub-12's combined have 900rms of power, while the CS's amp puts out 950. Am I looking at the numbers too much or would the "loudness" be realitively simaler?

You cannot really compare amplifier power ratings against each other unless the same exact driver and enclosure are used in each sub. Even then, a doubling of power (500 watts compared to 1000 watts) only yields a 3 dB increase in SPL. There are too many other variables that come into play, such as individual driver sensitivity, to compare dissimilar sub woofer power ratings. Below is a more useful way to compare subs.

The Klipsch is rated into 1/8th space, which is corner loading. That boosts the numbers in a big way. Textbook, it will give 18 dB higher readings than free space will. The 18.1 is tested in free space, well away from boundaries and the reinforcement they give. http://www.genelec.com/learning-cent...adiationspace/

Lets run the numbers for single subs.


Klipsch Sub-12 - MAXIMUM ACOUSTIC OUTPUT: 117dB @ 30Hz 1/8 space (corner loaded), 1 meter


CHT 18.1 in free space 1 meter:
15 Hz 101 dB
20 Hz 106 dB
31.5 Hz 114 dB
50 Hz 121 dB
Tone burst (MAX OUTPUT)for the 18.1 is 31.5 Hz @ 118 dB in free space.



Each Klipsch Sub-12 weighs 40 lbs. with the amplifier.

Each CHT 18.1 weighs 75 lbs. without the amplifier.


Either one of these sub systems you are looking at will play pretty loudly, but the 18.T Duo will hit harder, lower and cleaner than three Sub 12's.

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post #149 of 854 Old 08-01-2011, 12:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post

New 2012 Lineup to be shipping by October 1. Sweet. Including the VS-18.1.

Check out the forum, nice aesthetic changes. (flush mounting, 2" thick baffles...)

New OEM building their enclosures: http://jandfwoodproducts.com/

Looks like they've built cabinets for MK, Infinity, JBL and they seem to show a lot of Klipsch products?
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post #150 of 854 Old 08-01-2011, 12:20 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tesseract67 View Post

You cannot really compare amplifier power ratings against each other unless the same exact driver and enclosure are used in each sub. Even then, a doubling of power (500 watts compared to 1000 watts) only yields a 3 dB increase in SPL. There are too many other variables that come into play, such as individual driver sensitivity, to compare dissimilar sub woofer power ratings. Below is a more useful way to compare subs.

The Klipsch is rated into 1/8th space, which is corner loading. That boosts the numbers in a big way. Textbook, it will give 18 dB higher readings than free space will. The 18.1 is tested in free space, well away from boundaries and the reinforcement they give. http://www.genelec.com/learning-cent...adiationspace/

Lets run the numbers for single subs.


Klipsch Sub-12 - MAXIMUM ACOUSTIC OUTPUT: 117dB @ 30Hz 1/8 space (corner loaded), 1 meter


CHT 18.1 in free space 1 meter:
15 Hz 101 dB
20 Hz 106 dB
31.5 Hz 114 dB
50 Hz 121 dB
Tone burst (MAX OUTPUT)for the 18.1 is 31.5 Hz @ 118 dB in free space.



Each Klipsch Sub-12 weighs 40 lbs. with the amplifier.

Each CHT 18.1 weighs 75 lbs. without the amplifier.


Either one of these sub systems you are looking at will play pretty loudly, but the 18.T Duo will hit harder, lower and cleaner than three Sub 12's.

The 18.1's numbers are ground plane, not free space. I believe you could adequately compare them this way:

Klipsch Sub-12 x 3 @ 30Hz = 114dB
CHT 18.T @ 31.5Hz = 124dB

But you're right, the 18.T will destroy the triple Klipsch's at any frequency they reproduce, period- and extend of course much deeper below their usable output (~24Hz?).
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