Official Chase Home Theater Owners Thread - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 854 Old 03-11-2011, 09:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi,

Thought I would start a Chase Home Theater Owners Thread since it was pointed out that there was none currently on AVS. I am still a relative beginner so all I can promise is to be more of a burden than a guide.... So all you more experienced owners, feel free to post impressions, tips, graphs etc..etc.


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post #2 of 854 Old 03-11-2011, 09:42 AM
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Cool deal Matman1970. Have been a very happy owner of a single 18.2 for some time now, was one of the first ones to get one. All I can say is it still has that same wow and enjoyment factor for me as when I first got it. The one thing that has happened is I find myself listening to more music CD's and DVD's than before. Working on getting a second one with the wife...yeah good luck with that!
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post #3 of 854 Old 03-11-2011, 09:45 AM
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Grabbed a CS 10.2 and I'll post later my observations.

Evil is Good
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post #4 of 854 Old 03-11-2011, 09:52 AM - Thread Starter
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I am still in the formative stages of setting up 5 SHO-10's and a 18.T. But I won't let that stop me from posting some strictly subjective thoughts:

Well the other day I wired up the front stage (3 SHO's) and the 18.T and level matched them with the Rat Shack. No EQ yet. Naturally, I had to listen to them even in this preliminary stage. I used Fantasia 2000 on BD. The sound was HUGE and clean at VERY HIGH levels(I'll get more on this later) I used the tin soldier part with the Shostakovich 2nd piano concerto which is very dynamic. I figured this would be even more demanding for actual SQ than the usual exploding stuff movie scene. It was fantastic, it was a very in your face feeling, not in a bad way, more like you are sitting in the middle of a symphony orchestra while they are playing their ass off.

I know the subs are not EQ'd yet and it is possible I could be near a null based on room dimensions but I do want to get a quick impression out there. My Dad formerly had a Infinity BU-2 ported sub. Now going from this to dual 18"s is no comparison, but like many have said it was not the same difference as I expected in my head. His old sub was "boomy" and "rumbly" with any high volume material, whether music or movies. The 18.T does not call attention to itself unless needed and when needed it sends a wave of clean bass over you.

Well after listening to this for like seven minutes my ears were starting to hurt a little. "My God!!" I was thinking "how can people listen at this level for two hours!!!" It turned out that when I was using the Denon pink noise I adjusted the master volume to read -10db to get to reference level, but when I listened to the movie I forgot and put the volume on 0db so I was actually listening at +10db above reference. No wonder the Rat Shack was measuring over 115db peaks.

I did warn you I am still a resident of noobieville.

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post #5 of 854 Old 03-11-2011, 12:03 PM
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I will post some graphs here just for kicks and get this thread going. I know many here think the CS 18.2 or 18.1 are bad designs but they are not and works very well in sealed rooms, whether big or small. The driver has 19mm of X-max and an FS of 22 hz according to Eminence. They are also sensitive meaning they do not need lots of power. I use 8 of the drivers to ensure I have enough X-max to EQ for ULF(ultra low frequencies).

Close mic graph



In room response



I have 4 of them now and they are up front but here are 2 of them when they were in the back.





I will have new pics of the 4 up front and my new room treatments.
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post #6 of 854 Old 03-11-2011, 02:10 PM
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Great ideas on the thread.
Michael (mojave/desertdome) and I will probably be EQ'n again tomorrow with the 18.Ts.

Will try and post the sweeps as well.
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post #7 of 854 Old 03-11-2011, 03:33 PM
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Had a great chat on the phone with Craig today, placed my order for an SS-18.T Duo, and I hope to have something to add to this thread - aside from this useless post - by the weekend of the 18th-21st.
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post #8 of 854 Old 03-11-2011, 06:23 PM
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post #9 of 854 Old 03-11-2011, 08:19 PM
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I was one of the first to get the CS18.2's and I still love them. People who complain about the design must not like having subs that are flat to below 10hz (in-room), with high output.

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post #10 of 854 Old 03-11-2011, 08:37 PM
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CraigSUBS work great for 2 channel, too! Concert videos have never been this much fun.

Attachment 205037
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post #11 of 854 Old 03-12-2011, 10:27 PM
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Close mic and total room responses posted in CHT forum threads and in subwoofer showdown thread here.
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post #12 of 854 Old 03-13-2011, 05:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mktheater View Post

i will post some graphs here just for kicks and get this thread going. I know many here think the cs 18.2 or 18.1 are bad designs but they are not and works very well in sealed rooms, whether big or small. The driver has 19mm of x-max and an fs of 22 hz according to eminence. They are also sensitive meaning they do not need lots of power. I use 8 of the drivers to ensure i have enough x-max to eq for ulf(ultra low frequencies).

Close mic graph



in room response




MK,
What's influencing the 5db hump ~40hz in the near-field plot? I've never seen a near-field response like that with a sealed alignment. Maybe this has been covered elsewhere, I may have missed it. Your other extension graph is killer, your system is the envy of many.


Thanks

------------------------------------
Flat, Deep, Clean, Linear, and Loud
------------------------------------
Active 16.8kw, 7.3 system
(3)Seaton Cat12C up front, (4)QSC K8 sides/rears
(2)Seaton SubM-HP, (4)18" IB
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post #13 of 854 Old 03-13-2011, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matman1970 View Post

Hi,

Thought I would start a Chase Home Theater Owners Thread since it was pointed out that there was none currently on AVS. I am still a relative beginner so all I can promise is to be more of a burden than a guide.... So all you more experienced owners, feel free to post impressions, tips, graphs etc..etc.

Nice Job

It is not "open-minded" to reject knowledge - Bob Lee
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post #14 of 854 Old 03-13-2011, 06:49 AM
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What is the actual driver that is used for the subs? Eminence? Model number?
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post #15 of 854 Old 03-13-2011, 11:24 AM
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It's an Eminence driver but it's proprietary so you won't find a model number.
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post #16 of 854 Old 03-13-2011, 11:57 AM
 
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I believe, IIRC, that all the CHT components are purchased through the Parts Express catalog, and the only proprietary item is a fixed L-pad added to the Sho/Pro speaker crossovers to match the tweeter output to the woofer. I could be wrong, I'm not a CHT owner, maybe their spokesperson could elaborate?
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post #17 of 854 Old 03-13-2011, 12:07 PM
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I know you can source almost all of the components for the Sho/Pro monitors from parts express but the sub driver is not an off the shelf item.
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post #18 of 854 Old 03-13-2011, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floridapoolboy View Post

I believe, IIRC, that all the CHT components are purchased through the Parts Express catalog, and the only proprietary item is a fixed L-pad added to the Sho/Pro speaker crossovers to match the tweeter output to the woofer. I could be wrong, I'm not a CHT owner, maybe their spokesperson could elaborate?

All our CHT speaker components are purchased under OEM agreements with Eminence and Selenium. This includes subwoofer drivers, woofers, compression drivers, wave guides and crossovers. We do not purchase these components from Parts Express. Thank you.

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post #19 of 854 Old 03-13-2011, 02:48 PM
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Are there any pics of the crossovers that you could share Jack?
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post #20 of 854 Old 03-13-2011, 02:52 PM
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We have not been asked for pictures of the crossover, so it's likely none has been taken yet. I will look into it and see if we can get one put up on our website. As a company representative, I am not permitted to post such a picture here, as that may be considered martketing. Please allow a few days, and check on the website for the crossover pictures. Thanks.

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post #21 of 854 Old 03-13-2011, 02:55 PM
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Got 4) of the CS 18s set up running in a cluster like Lil Gator's behind an AT screen in between my L & R JTR 888s. I'm running them off a Face Audio F700 so 1,400 watts split between 4, crossed at 150hz and no eq. I listened to Michael Jackson's This is it Blu Ray and the kick drums on Billie Jean and Smooth Criminal are ridiculous when I get on it and ask for more. I initially had plans of running them as midbass from 40 to 150hz but after playing them full range they have taken everything I've thrown without a hitch from Skadoosh on Kung Fu Panda, to all the torture tests in the Incredible Hulk. I was anxiously hawking (monitoring excursion) the cones to make sure nothing was gonna blow up. The first step is do no wrong. Now with that covered I can proceed to maximizing full potential. So now the plan will be LFE + Mains and hopefully the CS will play nicely with my other subs-2) DTS 10s nearfield and a JTR Captivator up front.

I had little doubt they would excel at music and they do, my fear was that the CS18s would seem lean or lacking from what I'm used to on movies. Part of this is because they are sealed (my others are vented tuned to 12hz and 15hz)and not receiving a bunch of power, or eq to bring up the bottom. The other part is that they are on a platform 36" off the ground and in the center of it at that so no corner loading, and no reinforcement from being on the ground, oh and my room isn't sealed either. With all that being said it's intense. I guess the cone area of 4 efficient (98db for 2) 18s can overcome quite a bit. For the majority of movie watching I'm honestly quite surprised at the presentation. A friend of mine who is familiar with my set up didn't even realize my DTS 10s weren't on. Part of what helped is that I had him sit on the back couch which is on a riser and makes for the most tactile seat in the house.

My room is 24 feet from the front of the screen to the back of the room. 14 feet at the widest point and finally 10 feet at the very back of the room with 8 foot ceilings. I have 13) 2" thick mineral wool acoustical panels throughout the room.

On a side note, I was really trying to decide between the dual opposed and what I got. Part of my hesitance was reading a report of a CS18 enclosure "dancing". With me havin them stacked and behind an AT screen, I wouldn't be able to monitor cabinet movement, so if they shifted it could be very bad news. I'm not using an isolation platform on the bottom boxes and in between the top and bottom boxes are 4 small felt pads I sourced. On the real heavy hitting scenes where the cones are really moving the cabinets are not in the slighest.

The finish is not as bad in person as some pics I'd seen. I would still say the continued revisions was a good call. For the price it was a non issue for me as I already knew what I was getting, furthermore it's not visible anyways. In my scenario, the CS 18s are doing exactly what I hoped and even more. I still have to get some measurement gear and implement eq to improve further still.
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post #22 of 854 Old 03-13-2011, 03:51 PM
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4 CS 18's, 2 DTS 10's, and a Captivator, WHOA lack of bass is no problem in your neighborhood. Eq'd and level matched I would be very interested in your subjective comparisons between the 3.
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post #23 of 854 Old 03-13-2011, 04:33 PM
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Here is a REW graph of some of the locations tested with the SS-18.1 alone, then combined to the 18.T, then EQ'd in final position.

Also a close mic.

I think all are 1/3 octave smoothed and otherwise the legends should be there to see.

Also some pictures of equipment used.

EDIT: The final position for the subs is in tan on the chart.
LL
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post #24 of 854 Old 03-13-2011, 04:33 PM
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Eq and level match to come. One thing that makes it difficult to accurately evalute the 3 is that I don't have flexbility to test in the same location due to aesthetics and practicality. My DTS 10s are standing on end and the enclosure is flush against the back of my couch. The Captivator is layed on its side and beneath the screen- 4)18s wouldn't fit beneath the screen. I have tested 2 Caps at my girl's theater where I have most of the stuff that wouldn't fit in mine. They are placed more towards the middle away from the corners and in a larger open floor plan. In that set up the Cap has a similar flavor to the the CS 18. The Cap in the upper regions sounds a lot like a pro driver IMO it is also high in sensitivity from 50hz on up. It has a dry hit to it and good transient response. Where I have it placed straddling 2 corners at my house the Cap has more impact on movies (in comparison to at my girl's house) but not as clean on music, again need eq. The DTS 10 is simply more of a bottom dweller compared to all in my room. If I run Audyssey the test tones on the DTS 10s sound much deeper. Every other sub from a sealed Maelstrom and 3)Avalanche 18s, a Madison M1 218 which was a pro cab, and the Captivator which is tuned to 15hz sound almost all the same with the test tones, almost like a mid bass sub in comparison. Again when I ran a sweep with an SMS 1 starting at 15hz the DTS 10s sounds a lot deeper than the Cap and make the room tremble more. By design they all have their strengths and weaknesses. I'd say the DTS 10 is the least friendly out of the box as it has peaks inherent in design that require more attention.
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post #25 of 854 Old 03-13-2011, 04:37 PM
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gbbmc...

Is your Cap this years or last years model? Also you have experience with the Malestrom-X? If so, could you please tell me about your impressions with it? Was it the 18" or the 21" and which generation?

Sorry about all the questions.

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post #26 of 854 Old 03-13-2011, 04:48 PM
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Thanks for the followup. A member local to me has a cap on order and I am excited to give it a listen. It has to be nice to have more flexibility than a chinese gymnast!
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post #27 of 854 Old 03-13-2011, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yadfgp View Post

gbbmc...

Is your Cap this years or last years model? Also you have experience with the Malestrom-X? If so, could you please tell me about your impressions with it? Was it the 18" or the 21" and which generation?

Sorry about all the questions.

The Cap is this years version. I liked the Mal it was the 18" and I had 3) Avalanche 18s along with it. They were in sealed enclosures good transient response, clean sound and right behind my recliners so loafing along and huge tactile response.
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post #28 of 854 Old 03-13-2011, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Kamp View Post

Thanks for the followup. A member local to me has a cap on order and I am excited to give it a listen. It has to be nice to have more flexibility than a chinese gymnast!

LOL it is nice. I feel like whatever I am lacking now I have all the ingredients to make it great. Implementation will be the big hurdle now.
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post #29 of 854 Old 03-13-2011, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post

On a side note, I was really trying to decide between the dual opposed and what I got. Part of my hesitance was reading a report of a CS18 enclosure "dancing".
Was this an 18.2 or 18.1? I thought one of the strengths of the opposed configuration was that the forces cancel out so the enclosure is inert. Thus the construction can be lighter.
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post #30 of 854 Old 03-13-2011, 08:50 PM
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I liked that...so I had to post! LOL
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