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post #1 of 191 Old 04-14-2011, 02:42 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm drumming up interest for a Kansas City subwoofer meet. I'd like to have about 10 quality subs in the same house for a Saturday subjective and objective listening comparison by a panel of the subwoofer's owners, similar to what craigsub did in 2007 with his now famous listing!

If you have interest in this please subscribe to this thread and mention the subwoofers you have.

I have a pair of Infinity HPS-1000 subs and a pair of Jamo D7subs that can be used in the comparison.

There are a couple of other posters from KC area that likely would be willing to participate.

Here is my thread in AVSForum Area Home Theatre Meets section
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/kansas...subwoofer-meet

Here is my thread in the mostly dead local KCHT Enthusiasts forum
http://www.kchtenthusiasts.com/kcht_...opic.php?t=999

Here are the folk that have expressed interest and the sub equipment they own/would bring.
Archaea - Infinity HPS-1000 and Jamo D7sub (dates good)
carp - SVS PB Ultra 12/2 and JTR Captivator (both dates don't work)
Luke Kamp - HSU VTF-15H (dates good)
menotsodumb - Martin Logan Abyss
eviltwincustoms - Definitive Tech Trinity (may require assistance moving) (May 1 - May 26 does not work)
stitch1 - SVS PB12-NSD (May 3 good, May 14?)
Counsil - Epik Empire (plan date no, Subwoofer meet day good)
KGB540 - JTR Growler Duo (Omaha, but willing to drive in)
tcottonab - SVS PC13-Ultra Sledge (dates good)
superedge88 - THT (may not be able to come for a Saturday meet)
wildcat82 - Epik Empire (plan date no, Subwoofer meet day 50%)
Randy Bessinger - Seaton Submersive (assistance moving sub required) (dates good)
04FLHRCI - sealed B&C 21SW152 (unable to attend at this junction/other responsibilities)
energyfun - JL Audio F113 (plan date no, Subwoofer meet day yes?)
jonnyozero3 - Rythmik D15SE (Omaha - may not be able to come unless meet is > late June)
Chirpie - SVS PB 12 plus (plan date? Subwoofer Date good)


Interested in attending the planning session or meet, but won't be bringing a sub
KC Sphinx (both dates won't work)

Dates are set!:

Tuesday May 3 at my house at 6:15 PM for the planning session
Saturday May 14 at my house 10AM for the actual subwoofer meet and testing.

PM me for questions, phone number, address.

THE SUBWOOFER MEET was held live on ustream. It had about 80 viewers throughout the day. Pretty amusing.


See the new thread for our results postings.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1335139

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
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post #2 of 191 Old 04-14-2011, 04:16 PM
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Good luck with this. I hope there is interest in your area for this because the one I had was a lot of fun (and a lot of work). I'm in middle TN and had people come from as far away as new orleans and even had a sub shipped to us from san diego. I've still got over 85 gigs worth of 1080 video on my pc from the meet and haven't got to do anything except post 2 of the smaller videos on youtube. The others are way too big.
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post #3 of 191 Old 04-14-2011, 08:02 PM
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Depending on when and where, I might be willing to play. I can try and lug my Definitive Tech Trinity (185lbs) up the stairs from my basement meet up with some of the others.
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post #4 of 191 Old 04-14-2011, 08:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eviltwincustoms View Post
Depending on when and where, I might be willing to play. I can try and lug my Definitive Tech Trinity (185lbs) up the stairs from my basement meet up with some of the others.
We can help you move it when we make this event happen. i'll add your name above. Exciting to see a monster sub like that possibly added to the audition! When we get about 10 people interested then I'll organize a short get together/planning event and we'll get the dates and plans figured out!

We'll need to, as a group, figure out a select few reference movie and song clips that will be standardized for each audition.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
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post #5 of 191 Old 04-14-2011, 08:52 PM
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I am very interested. I have a SVS PB12-NSD and am in the market for an upgrade.
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post #6 of 191 Old 04-14-2011, 08:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stitch1 View Post
I am very interested. I have a SVS PB12-NSD and am in the market for an upgrade.
Probably all of us (but one) will be in the market for an upgrade after a comparison like this

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
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post #7 of 191 Old 04-15-2011, 04:53 AM
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And if any of you do decide to upgrade... I might be in the market to buy one of the used subs.

I am looking to pull the trigger on a sub at the end of the month or next month, so depending on when this goes down, I might have a sub to add. I would want to be there regardless, can't pass up an opportunity to audition numerous brands and designs of subs.
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post #8 of 191 Old 04-15-2011, 07:39 PM
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I'd like to come as well. I am really busy with work nowadays so no promises.

I can bring an Epik Empire.

Never argue with an idiot; they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

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post #9 of 191 Old 04-15-2011, 08:58 PM - Thread Starter
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This little meet is shaping up nicely -- looks like we've got some quality products to review. Counsil your home theatre subwoofer setup is nothing short of impressive! Just a few local folk and their comparison pieces wanted (I'd rather have more than less knowing that not everyone will be able to come on the day selected.)

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
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post #10 of 191 Old 04-16-2011, 07:19 AM
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I have JTR Growler Duo's and will hopefully have Capitvators by the meet. I have Crown XTi amps powering them now. Its a bit of a drive for me but if its planned well enough, and the host doesn't mid some massive subs, I could make it.

EDIT...........oooops. I see it's more of a "locals" only. Maybe someone in Omaha has the facilities to hold such an event. I know there are soome pretty serious woofers there.
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post #11 of 191 Old 04-16-2011, 07:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgb540 View Post
I have JTR Growler Duo's and will hopefully have Capitvators by the meet. I have Crown XTi amps powering them now. Its a bit of a drive for me but if its planned well enough, and the host doesn't mid some massive subs, I could make it.

EDIT...........oooops. I see it's more of a "locals" only. Maybe someone in Omaha has the facilities to hold such an event. I know there are soome pretty serious woofers there.
hey you know what - if you are willing to drive three hours each way to hear some nice equipment and even willing to bring some nice equipment to add to the spectacle-- your attendance is fine by me. I'll add you to the list. You'll might miss out on the planning meeting being that it'll likely be in KC but I can forward you the itinerary and we'll give you equal measure in accepting input you have.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
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post #12 of 191 Old 04-16-2011, 07:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Brandon Nash sent me a PM that I think is worth copying out to this thread. Having hosted one of these meets before he has some insight to keeping it running smoothly. Here is the summary of what he said. He put a few specifics in the pm that I have taken out because he may not have intended them to be publicly read. I appreciate this fine community and brandonnash's sage advice to help us ensure a fun and successful gathering.

Hey man,

Some things I was thinking about to make your meet go a bit more smoothly.

When I had my meet I actually got the idea from warpdrv and the meet he had. I wanted to streamline it some so we'd be able to fit in as many as possible and still have a chance to get a good feel for everything that was there. The biggest thing I believe that worked for that for us was having a setlist for all the things we wanted to watch and listen to on single discs. I made a dvd demo disc with good bass heavy parts of movies that most people knew and some that weren't as well known, but with that we had a solid baseline for each sub. It's a little boring after the 4th or 5th time listening to, but it ultimately was the most fair way of judging the ability of the subs by ear. A couple suggestions for the dvd (or blu ray if you have a burner) I can make are WOTW pods emerge scene to see if the subs can reproduce the super low frequencies, and the THX trailer "amazing life". The THX trailer actually bottomed a couple subs we had just from the sheer output on it. One of the reasons I made a compilation disc was because midway through my thread I had people wanting to bring blu rays to play. The only problem I had with that was that the time it would have taken to load new discs and then get to the good parts. This would have added a ton of time to the meet and instead of going for I believe 8 or 10 hours it would have run late into the night.

ACCEPT DIY AND PRO SUBS!!! If you really want eye openers I'd be open to having the big guys in there. You'll have incredibly interesting conversations on how they're built and you'll be amazed at the kind of performance/dollar ratio can be had with these things.

Booze...Collective subwoofer meet experience says don't let anyone come who intends to get stupid drunk. Someone did at one party. Apparently there was some guy that showed up at his and threw down a 12 pack in a couple hours and kept bumping into things and insisting on listening to fergie cds and being an extreme annoyance to the other attendees. He also fell down and broke some stuff at the meet.

Depending on the amount of people that show up and your room and the equipment being used, your room could get quite hot. My room is hard enough as it is to keep cool. The day we had our meet it was about 80 degrees outside and by the time everyone left my room was probably well over 90 degrees. That was with the A/C going. If you just have commercially made subs you shouldn't have too much of a problem as they don't get too hot. We had a ton of equipment in the room. Don't know if you looked at the pics, but we had a couple big equipment racks with amps putting out a lot of heat. Here's a pic of some of it.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3403/...60eba3_o_d.jpg

Things will get broke! There may be problems moving heavy boxes up/down stairs or smashing them into drywall. At mine, I had a wood sub scratch up my floor a little and when the big commercial subs started going one of them (the Danley TH-50) knocked stuff off my walls. I'd remove pictures and any other loose items from the wall before you get going. We ended up liking that sub so much afterwards that Danley designed a home theater sub kit and I have the first one made. If you want to read about it if you haven't already it's http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1189404
here.
The last thing I have on my mind, I'm sure I'll think of something else for you, is if you're wanting to have some subs that may not be readily available around you, email the manufacturer and tell him what you're doing and give them your plan for the day and they may send you a sub. The one I got from san diego was sent by TC Sounds. I emailed Ed Mullen from SVS who declined for several different reasons, and also JL audio who would have sent their road demo unit of a F113 or a Gotham but they were both at a show that weekend. So if you email JL and their schedule is free they may send you out something.

Hope all this helps. I'm planning on having another meet sometime this year, just don't know when yet. Thinking a speaker meet, but the subwoofer meet was too much fun. You can really tell a difference between a good sub and a great sub when they're in the same room.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
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post #13 of 191 Old 04-16-2011, 08:10 AM - Thread Starter
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With brandonnash's suggestions in mind I think we should either buy a demodisc from one of the other community members here for the gathering, or I could attempt to make one based on our collective input. (I'm an IT guy)

If we make a disc - I'll suggest that each participating attendee gets to choose one clip of a song about 1 minute long and an movie scene of their choice that is about 2 minutes long. (I can edit the portions out before the meet. If we had 10 attendees that is 10 minutes of songs per sub and 20 minutes of video per sub. That makes 30 minutes of media per sub or 5 hours of demoing with 10 subs just for the listening portion --- which may be too long as it is by the time you add setup/teardown for each sub. Do we want to calibrate each sub with audessey xt or equivalent and put each sub in the same exact room position for the testing, or just turn all EQ off and just play the subs in the exact same position to save time over using audessey calibration? I'm not opposed to using a whole Saturday for the tests, but I guess I'd rather listen to subs on demo material than calibrate with test tones all day long. Perhaps even the 30 minutes of demo material for each sub is too much? Maybe we each still choose a 1 minute song clip, but vote on only about 5 movie reference scenes to drop the demo time to 20 minutes per sub.

As far as house we should get some input on who is willing/able to host and what equipment they have coupled with the room setup and ease of access.

My house - located by the Royals and Chiefs stadiums easily accessible off I-70, 350 hwy, or 71 hwy.

Positives - I have a 3500 cubic foot theater room with a walk out basement sliding glass door immediately attached. We could get the subs in and out easily and without damaging them. I have a 8 foot section of wall on the right side of my projection screen and it would be an ideal place to put each sub for testing. There is plenty of space to move subs around and not be running into people. I have an AmericanDJ V3000 amp that is currently unused by in my rack that has been previously used for subs. It would save people from bringing their own amp if they don't mind using other equipment. I use a Onkyo TX-NR1007 receiver for the mains and sub outs. I finished the room myself so every outlet on the front side of the room (that you could possibly connect any home theater equipment to is it's own 20 amp dedicated circuit. (like five dedicated 20 amp circuits on the front wall alone - meaning we wouldn't have power problems and we could at some point hook up all the subs up at once using splitters and probably knock my house down.)

Negatives - My room only has four dedicated seating positions. I could bring in some chairs for people, or we could move my berkline chairs out and sit on the floor, but there are not 10 ideal seating positions in current setup.

I could probably get us free access to my local church and we might be able to host the event in a classroom there, but setting up and tearing down and enjoyment factor might go down based on the room not being setup in any way for home theater. We could host the event in a Kansas City Park, like at a Longview lake shelter house, but the subs would be outdoors and it might not be a good comparison for actual use with room gain in effect.

While I'd be happy to host the event, I'm certainty not glued to my room/house as the hosting facility (especially seeing that I have some of the lighter subs on the list and could easily move my equipment). If anyone else has a location they wouldn't mind hosting this meet in speak up. We can compare the options. I know from this list that Luke's home theater room would be too small for 10 subs and 10 attendees. I don't really want to host the event in a room where we are all crowded and there is no room to maneuver equipment in and out, and I'd like to avoid any place that might have power issues because damaging our expensive equipment would ruin the event.

To brandonnash's warning on booze. If you bring it keep consumption respectable. Get wasted some other time, this event is not the time to be hammered.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
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post #14 of 191 Old 04-16-2011, 09:55 AM
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The list is looking nice! Already a few subs I have never had a chance to hear. Anyone have a Rythmik they could bring?

For subjective listening tests:

I would be willing to be one of two or three that sits out and does swaps in between rounds. We will need to build a wood frame to house sub under so it can be covered. Blind testing only with none being revealed until all are tested.
We can put a row or two of folding chairs behind your recliners. As long as everyone sits in same chair every time should be fine. We can have test disk for music and one for movies. After watching one will have scoring sheets made up for everyone to vote and make comments on paper while swapping disks. We will wait until after both tests are done to have discussion on performance of last sub as to not skew individual responses. I have science background so would be happy to set up our testing best as I can. If anyone has ideas on best way to do this please let us know!


EQ- if anyone coming has antimode or sms... anything that can be quickly eq'd from one point everytime, it would be awesome if someone could bring one. (I might have something by the meet, come on tax refund I need another sub and eq!). We will need something quick as bass memory stinks and want to keep it flowing, but I do think some eq is a must.

If anyone is wanting to bring subs from out of town PM me as I have room for a few at my place. That way if you break anything I keep the sub! Also I would like to take this pretty serious, so I would be willing to take people out on the town after we wrap up testing. We can slam a 12 pack together that night and listen to some fergie!
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post #15 of 191 Old 04-16-2011, 10:50 AM
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I would love to host but sadly my room and home are just not ideal. I have a tight stairway as my only way of getting equipment in and out and my room is pretty small for 10 people. As for time I don't mind taking a full day to play with all these fantastic subs. I do like your idea of picking a few senes that we all agree upon. As much as I love Audessey I do think running it for 10 subs could become a real time killer and I could see a lot of people not wanting to waste time to run it. I suggest we just use an SPL meter to get the volumes set an go from there to save time. Unless everyone is ok spending a full day so we have the time to fully calibrate each sub. (I would be ok with that) As for drinking I like to throw one back as much as the next guy but I would hope we could all be responsable or if we think it will become an issue maybe we should just avoid it all together. I think if we plan this event out well enough this could be a great day for all of us to meet new people and learn a lot about home theaters. Now if only we could get access to an ultra I would be able to hear just about every sub I have been in the market for.
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post #16 of 191 Old 04-16-2011, 10:56 AM
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Just saw your post Luke and I really like where your head is at. I blind testing, score cards, and waiting to drink until the the work is done. I like it. Let me know what I can do to help.
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post #17 of 191 Old 04-16-2011, 11:38 AM
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I'd love to see some blind testing done. It would be difficult to do but could be worth the effort. The only caveat is comparing a small sub to something like the captivator. By that I mean its almost like going to a test track and comparing a honda and a corvette going the same slow speed. If I am looking at a subwoofer I am looking at sound quality but also the ability to reproduce effects at believable levels with minimal artifacts along with whether or not it can lower itself into the depths. With a standard set of testing material you can certainly detemine quality and to an extent the extension, but at some point, maybe for a second round of testing during the day, you should open the subs up and let them run. I'd hate to completely base opinions on blind testing. The blind testing with score cards is a great idea, but you should see what the subs can do too.
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post #18 of 191 Old 04-16-2011, 02:27 PM
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I'm in for this too, I see another member from Omaha will have a Captivator but I could bring mine instead if he doesn't feel like bringing his. However I think he said he will have more than one and I would love to hear how 2 would sound.
I don't have the Cap yet but they are supposed to be in stock real soon.
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post #19 of 191 Old 04-16-2011, 03:15 PM
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I have a SVS PC13-Ultra Sledge version that I could bring into the mix. Barring any scheduling conflicts with work, etc.

Tim
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post #20 of 191 Old 04-16-2011, 06:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Tim, Cool - nice to have the newest SVS sub up for audition!

I think this lineup is filling up much faster than I anticpated. I expect 20% or 25% of the people who expressed interest won't be able to make it on game day --- so we'll give it a few more signups and then I'd imagine we'll have enough to make a full day of it.

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post #21 of 191 Old 04-16-2011, 06:41 PM
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If someone has a small trailer (I just need to know what ball size is needed) I can bring one of my 4-wheelers. That way we can unload/load subs with ease. Especially if we need to bring subs around the back into a walk-out basement.

Never argue with an idiot; they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

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post #22 of 191 Old 04-16-2011, 10:11 PM
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I am located in Olathe and have a THT. I would love to join you guys, but I work most weekends and most likely would be working when this is planned. The THT has been pretty well documented as far as what it is capable of so probably wouldn't be a big deal if I can't bring mine.
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post #23 of 191 Old 04-17-2011, 05:07 AM
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The tht should be there. Yes its pretty well documented but I'd be willing to bet few if any of the attendees realize what it can do. At my meet we all had heard of Danley but no one had heard their stuff. They had huge specs but experiencing it was completely different. From 20 hz and up the tht should amaze people there and what will be even more amazing is when they hear how much it costs.
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post #24 of 191 Old 04-17-2011, 06:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by counsil View Post

If someone has a small trailer (I just need to know what ball size is needed) I can bring one of my 4-wheelers. That way we can unload/load subs with ease. Especially if we need to bring subs around the back into a walk-out basement.

good idea...

I've got an 8x4 trailer and a 700cc quad myself so if we have it at my place that idea is covered. Counsil, did you know about the kcorr.com? hook up with local kc atv owners.

www.kcorr.com

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My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint

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post #25 of 191 Old 04-17-2011, 09:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by superedge88 View Post

I am located in Olathe and have a THT. I would love to join you guys, but I work most weekends and most likely would be working when this is planned. The THT has been pretty well documented as far as what it is capable of so probably wouldn't be a big deal if I can't bring mine.

I was just poking around Danley's website and didn't see anything called the THT. Which model is that?

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
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My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint

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post #26 of 191 Old 04-17-2011, 09:43 AM
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I was just using danley as an example. www.billfitzmaurice.com

Its a horn loaded subwoofer designed for home theater use. With the excess mfw drivers available very cheap now you could probably build one for ~$350.
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post #27 of 191 Old 04-17-2011, 10:16 AM
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Ya I am very interested in the THT and adding a horn to the mix. It is an awesome budget sub build and I looked very hard at possibly building one or two and firing into room below screen when I was starting to look at subs. It will really impress people at what it will do for the price if you have the tools and knowhow. Unfortunatley I don't have much for tools and haven't done much woodworking since shop class and car sub boxes over a decade ago. I was also worried about the roll off without being able to corner load the horn. The DIY route is a bridge I would like to cross some day.

The all day blind testing might not be a good time saver. Maybe we could do it between a few similar designs or price brackets. Really just want to do the event so everyone attending will enjoy, and most will be satisfied with what gets put up for the community here. I will have an omnimic with me so testing setup and info AVS members want needs to be given in advance so we can do some beforehand to get an idea on time constraints. Well I know Archaea and he knows me, right now he has 1 of 4 going and I tend to test the limits. I doubt any sub with us will get through the day without some heavy output testing! Owners may want to keep a hold of the volume control while the testing of their sub is occuring.
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post #28 of 191 Old 04-17-2011, 09:43 PM
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Damn, I'd love to show up to hear some of those subs. Will this be in late June (lol)? I'm free then and could take my Rythmik D15SE to KC (from omaha)

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post #29 of 191 Old 04-18-2011, 10:08 AM
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Depending on what weekend and work I could possibly make it. Someone else is already bring an Empire, but I could bring mine as well and we could see what duals sounded like. Put me on the list and we'll see when it ends up being. Sounds like it will be a great time though.
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post #30 of 191 Old 04-18-2011, 11:17 AM
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Depends on when it is and I would need some help getting it transported (i'm old and fat), but I have a Seaton Submersive in Raytown.
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