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post #271 of 21548 Old 06-21-2011, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
Episode 1&2 have my favorite bass of the series. Ep2 is LOUD!

Very interested to see how Cloverfield turns out. Matrix Reloaded should have plenty of stuff that goes down below 20hz.

One thing I'd like to see... Master and Commander. Both the dvd and the blu-ray A/B'd against one another with these bass average charts. That would be cool. I'll pony up the cash (or discs) to send to you, even.
I have the blu-ray version of Master And Commander, but not the dvd. I will do the lfe average chart for the blu-ray version later, and if you want you can send me the dvd and I'd do the chart for that as well.

Oh and here's Cloverfield (blu-ray, Dolby TrueHD 5.1):
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post #272 of 21548 Old 06-21-2011, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by LetoAtreides82 View Post
Actually my name comes from Duke's grandson, Leto Atreides II

Thanks for the settings, mines were similar. I'll use your settings after Cloverfield.

I've got the Matrix trilogy on blu-ray, maybe I'll do the average spectogram graphs for them one of these days.

btw your graph for The Incredible Hulk, was that the DVD version or was it the blu-ray version?
BluRay for T.I. Hulk. Cloverfield looks to give T.I. Hulk a run for its money!

JSS
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post #273 of 21548 Old 06-21-2011, 09:40 AM
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My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

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post #274 of 21548 Old 06-21-2011, 10:45 AM
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Master And Commander (blu-ray, DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1)


rolloff begins at 38hz
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post #275 of 21548 Old 06-21-2011, 11:09 AM
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PPsssshhhaaawww!

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post #276 of 21548 Old 06-21-2011, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LetoAtreides82 View Post

Master And Commander (blu-ray, DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1)


rolloff begins at 38hz

Wow....the true emasculation of what was a quite powerful soundtrack on DVD....

JSS
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post #277 of 21548 Old 06-21-2011, 12:10 PM
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BTW - Episode 3 was really lacking both in overall level and extension....about 5dB less than Episode I, which was lower than Episode II....wonder if the BluRay coming out this year will change that.....

It could be that the StarWars team wanted Episode 3 to 'bridge' between II and IV....but who knows...

Waiting on Netflix for other films to analyze. Star Trek and Matrix Revolutions on it's way!

JSS
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post #278 of 21548 Old 06-21-2011, 03:40 PM
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Curious what that +30dB peak (over average) around 6hz is about...

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post #279 of 21548 Old 06-21-2011, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass View Post

Hi Max,

Great stuff, as usual.

It's always cool to be able to 'see' what is discussed, and especially cool to see confirmation of an opinion for many years that most took an opposite side against.

To be more specific, back in the heyday of "human hearing dictates a house curve", I argued that the ELC is built into the mixer's hearing so the low end in the audible range is adjusted for you during production and applying a post EQ house curve is unnecessarily taxing your system and presenting a distorted low end.

Here's the HULK graph you posted with the 100dB ELC curve laid over:



Of course, below about 25 Hz is not supposed to be audible, much less equally audible to 1,000 Hz and the discs that contain LFE composed of synth + recorded real events will have content to DC, but, below 25 Hz the curve flattens out.

This is mainly to keep the data from exceeding the ceiling of the format and, in most cases, still has a relatively boosted level vs the actual event.

Awesome work, Doc.

Bosso



Junk science.


SpectrumLab is deceptive when you try to compare what you hear (and the way that you hear) against what you see on the screen with SL.

Take some wide band test noise of your choice that sounds "flat" and take a good look at the results that you get from 3 Hz to 24 kHz with SpectrumLab. The results have nothing to do with ELC contours!
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post #280 of 21548 Old 06-21-2011, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Bosso, now that's interesting! I've tried house curves over the years and I never really liked the sound of it. I already have enough 10hz-50hz.


House cures are only supposed to be applied when you listen at levels below "reference level". The amount of compensation required is easy to calculate if you know what you are doing!
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post #281 of 21548 Old 06-21-2011, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LetoAtreides82 View Post

Master And Commander (blu-ray, DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1)


rolloff begins at 38hz



If you can do it, chart the FR of the LFE channel by itself. No redirected bass.
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post #282 of 21548 Old 06-21-2011, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post

House cures are only supposed to be applied when you listen at levels below "reference level". The amount of compensation required is easy to calculate if you know what you are doing!

Very well informed on the subject of "house curves" and ELC for years now. Still don't like it in my room.

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post #283 of 21548 Old 06-21-2011, 07:53 PM
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Didn't see it on cable but picked up the blu ray and LFE is very nice on The Pacific as is the overall mix and surround channel use. I believe the user Filmmixer worked on one or more of the eps and he does great work! Solid addition to any collection IMO.

Thanks, will need to pick it up. Loved the series.

Bit by the upgrade bug, limited by the WAF
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post #284 of 21548 Old 06-22-2011, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post

Junk science.


SpectrumLab is deceptive when you try to compare what you hear (and the way that you hear) against what you see on the screen with SL.

Take some wide band test noise of your choice that sounds "flat" and take a good look at the results that you get from 3 Hz to 24 kHz with SpectrumLab. The results have nothing to do with ELC contours!

Instead of posting just to satisfy your penchant for posting a contrary opinion, practice what you preach and post your results. I have no interest in attempting to verify your mistaken ideas on the subject.

When a human mixes sound, the ELC phenomenon is automatic. I've seen it verified for decades in studio after studio.

3-24 Hz is below human hearing and irrelevant to ELC. That's why the ELC curves stop at 20 Hz. Format headroom and the proper scale of content below 20 Hz is how the final mix is arrived at in the first 3 octaves.

I find it painful to read pontificating posts regarding the first 3 octaves from a person who has no playback ability of anything below 25 Hz.

House curve EQ has existed for decades before your coveted auto-loudness button showed up in entry level A/V receivers. There are tutorials that instruct folks like yourself who buy into the idea exactly how to grossly distort the presentation in-room at the LP.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...ed-how-do.html

Wide band test noise? What will that tell me (or anyone else) about sound that's inaudible?

What about every graph posted in this thread? Should everyone EQ the signal before sending it to SL? Do your EQ butchery to your system, mic it and compare that to the unaltered signal fed directly into SL and post the results. Then everyone can see the hack job that's being done on the program source in the name of pseudo-science.

Start a thread and title it something like; "What the mixers did wrong and how to fix it to sound more betterer".

Bosso
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post #285 of 21548 Old 06-22-2011, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass View Post

When a human mixes sound, the ELC phenomenon is automatic. I've seen it verified for decades in studio after studio.

Bosso


Hearing is based on the log frequency scale (equal energy per octave/subdivision).

SpectrumLab is based on the linear frequency scale (equal energy per bin). Every octave has twice as many bins as the previous octave, so there is a FR drop off of 10 dB per decade in the SpectrumLab display that has nothing to do with ELC.

Kind of hard to make any conclusion of ELC based on SpectrumLab. In addition, the average SPL of any DVD at 1 kHz is not near the ELC scale that you chose.

In addition, the peak hold FR curves obtained by an RTA program like TrueRTA (log octave scale) do not look like the peak hold FR curves obtained by SpectrumLab (linear bin scale).
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post #286 of 21548 Old 06-22-2011, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass View Post


House curve EQ has existed for decades before your coveted auto-loudness button showed up in entry level A/V receivers. There are tutorials that instruct folks like yourself who buy into the idea exactly how to grossly distort the presentation in-room at the LP.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...ed-how-do.html

Bosso


I never said nor inferred that is a correct way to setup a system.

If you playback at reference level, no ELC adjustment is required.

If you playback lower than reference level, the ELC charts tell you how much to boost any frequency in question. A 5 to 10 dB decrease in playback volume level means you need to make a very modest boost in the bass to maintain the spectral balance obtained when the audio was mixed at reference level. Simple to compare the difference between the 80 phon level and the 70 phon level (that is a 10 dB difference so you don't have to break of the calculator).
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post #287 of 21548 Old 06-22-2011, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass View Post

Wide band test noise? What will that tell me (or anyone else) about sound that's inaudible?

Bosso


Since your only concern seems to be with audio that you can not hear, don't worry about it. You can't hear it!
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post #288 of 21548 Old 06-22-2011, 01:46 PM
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The Day The Earth Stood Still (2008 version, blu-ray, DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1)


Gort appears, -19db at 4hz:


Gort appears, -15db at 17hz:


Helicopters land, -12db at 43hz:


I vote 5 stars. Its LFE sounds awesome, infrasonic sound throughout the whole movie, and no full dropoff (the only other movie I've seen do that is War Of The Worlds, but wotw is still king of course). Fun movie to watch too.
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post #289 of 21548 Old 06-22-2011, 02:34 PM
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I just bought the Day the Earth Stood Still yesterday on BR for $7 at Wal-Mart. Didn't get to it yesterday, but I know what I'm watching this evening
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post #290 of 21548 Old 06-22-2011, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LetoAtreides82 View Post

The Day The Earth Stood Still (2008 version, blu-ray, DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1)


.


Damn.....great extension to 15Hz (great for me), and those two sub-10Hz spikes must be quite pressurizing on a capable system....that 30Hz spike is scary....

Bosso, the ignore function on this forum has saved me tons of aggravation and kept me out of hours of pointless argument....I recommend its use.

Leto, are you showing redirected bass as well as LFE, like I did? It sure looks like it...

JSS
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post #291 of 21548 Old 06-22-2011, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by maxmercy View Post

Damn.....great extension to 15Hz (great for me), and those two sub-10Hz spikes must be quite pressurizing on a capable system....that 30Hz spike is scary....

Bosso, the ignore function on this forum has saved me tons of aggravation and kept me out of hours of pointless argument....I recommend its use.

Leto, are you showing redirected bass as well as LFE, like I did? It sure looks like it...

JSS

Yea my charts are showing redirected bass as well as LFE. I have the average bass charts for Matrix and Matrix Reloaded done, and I think i'll leave Revolutions to you since you already ordered it. I'll be posting them soon. Now doing Batman: Under The Red Hood.
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post #292 of 21548 Old 06-22-2011, 03:49 PM
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Wow,

you are cranking them out! Matrix Revolutions should arrive Saturday or so...

JSS
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post #293 of 21548 Old 06-22-2011, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by maxmercy View Post

Wow,

you are cranking them out! Matrix Revolutions should arrive Saturday or so...

JSS


Finished Batman: Under The Red Hood and the chart is scary I'll post it tomorrow.

Now I'm interested in what a poor LFE movie would look like on these average bass charts. I'm checking out Wall-E (blu-ray version) but i'm confused, I'm seeing quite a bit of infrasonics, and to give you an idea of what i'm talking about I just saw a -13db spike at 3hz.

I did a search on the previous Bass List thread and I see that several people claimed Wall-E is underrated...
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post #294 of 21548 Old 06-22-2011, 09:11 PM
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The Day the Earth Stood Still isn't very well named. My earth wasn't standing still while that big alien robot was thumping through Central Park.

Total agreement on five stars for this one.
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post #295 of 21548 Old 06-22-2011, 11:41 PM
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Watched Sucker Punch last night, tons of LFE! lots of action,explosions..etc i would give it at least 4.5 stars

check the audio review by Blu-ray.com here

''a sonic sucker punch if there ever was one. LFE output is unbridled and untamed, infusing every enormous demon-Samurai weapon, thundering minigun, firing booster rocket, exploding biplane, deafening dragon roar, speeding train and devastating bomb with weight, power and ferocity.'' Blu-ray.com
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post #296 of 21548 Old 06-23-2011, 01:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LetoAtreides82 View Post

Finished Batman: Under The Red Hood and the chart is scary I'll post it tomorrow.

Now I'm interested in what a poor LFE movie would look like on these average bass charts. I'm checking out Wall-E (blu-ray version) but i'm confused, I'm seeing quite a bit of infrasonics, and to give you an idea of what i'm talking about I just saw a -13db spike at 3hz.

I did a search on the previous Bass List thread and I see that several people claimed Wall-E is underrated...

Most people cannot monitor 3Hz. If that would have been a 15Hz peak, more people would know it, and even more if it was above 25Hz. I can only really monitor to 15-16Hz, so a 3Hz peak would go by unnoticed....

I think that where the lots of LFE vs not movies will distinguish themselves is the average level below 25Hz, or some big peaks in the 5-25Hz range....

JSS
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post #297 of 21548 Old 06-23-2011, 03:14 AM
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Pardon me if I sound ignorant, but I thought human hearing range is 20Hz-20kHz. So hoe can we listen to frequencies like 10 or 15Hz? Why do people care so much about subsonic freqs? Please explain.
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post #298 of 21548 Old 06-23-2011, 03:47 AM
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Originally Posted by amarshonarbangla View Post

Pardon me if I sound ignorant, but I thought human hearing range is 20Hz-20kHz. So hoe can we listen to frequencies like 10 or 15Hz? Why do people care so much about subsonic freqs? Please explain.

You are correct. But people can detect subsonics, and they add something to the presentation when played back with fidelity. Most do not have systems capable of this....

Studies done have shown people can detect frequencies in the single digits. And it is not just feeling these frequencies, as one study had deaf people for a control group.....

The dolby spec allows for content down to 3Hz.

JSS
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post #299 of 21548 Old 06-23-2011, 05:02 AM
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You are correct. But people can detect subsonics, and they add something to the presentation when played back with fidelity. Most do not have systems capable of this....

Studies done have shown people can detect frequencies in the single digits. And it is not just feeling these frequencies, as one study had deaf people for a control group.....

The dolby spec allows for content down to 3Hz.

JSS

So it's about feeling those low freqs, not hearing them?
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post #300 of 21548 Old 06-23-2011, 05:52 AM
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So it's about feeling those low freqs, not hearing them?

Well at least for humans yes, some animals can actually hear infrasonic sounds. Alligators/crocodiles for instance communicate by making infrasonic sounds in their throats.

Friction produces infrasonic sounds, so things like walking, earthquakes, and water crashing into water in the ocean creates infrasonics. Things that go through the air also produce infrasonics, so things like swinging a sword, gunfire, hurricanes, tornadoes, etc create infrasonics.

Most humans can't hear below 20hz, although there are some that can hear a bit below that, although I'm not sure if they're hearing the actual sound or whether they're just very good at detecting the sound waves hitting their body.

Even subwoofers have a very hard time reproducing infrasonic frequencies. Very few subs go under 25hz, those that do tend to be expensive.

But why do we here value infrasonics in our movies? It's because infrasonics enhance the theater experience. A good explosion scene in a movie should pressurize your room if you have the hardware that can handle it. You will want that pressure because a real explosion produces that pressure too.
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