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Old 05-09-2012, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by cr136124 View Post


You guys are pushing me to buy this movie................not too hard to do it anyway.....

Anyone has it in 3D? If yes, what do you think?

I got the 3D BD delivered yesterday but probably won't get to watch until friday :-( Will definitely confirm after I get to. But reviews have it up there for 3D.

Bit by the upgrade bug, limited by the WAF
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Old 05-09-2012, 04:23 PM
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I'm at MovieStop with the movie right in front of me saying "buy me"

Not sure what to do?

;o)
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Old 05-09-2012, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by cr136124 View Post

I'm at MovieStop with the movie right in front of me saying "buy me"

Not sure what to do?

;o)

It was entertaining

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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Old 05-09-2012, 05:01 PM
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It was entertaining

Kate is going home with me....
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Old 05-09-2012, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by cr136124 View Post

Kate is going home with me....

How can that be?? She's already coming home with me!

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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Old 05-09-2012, 08:23 PM
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How can that be?? She's already coming home with me!

LOL.....a clone perhaps!?!?

No luck watching that movie today, I received my Velodyne SMS-1 and I was hooking it up and testing it with some know material.....what a difference!!!
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Old 05-09-2012, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

First of all, the PDF you are linking to is for mixing 5.1 for broadcast/video.. it isn't a "spec" for mixing films..

It was created by Dolby to help people who were used to mixing in stereo adapt to the "new" world of 5.1... even though there are references to dub stages, it was resigned in spirit for smaller mixing rooms and near field setups...

Ah-ha! That makes sense, and if I used sources that liberally without looking into them first in my regular profession I would be flogged, thanks for the clarification. All good info, very cool, thanks for the thoughtful response. The world of sound production / reproduction is pretty interesting to me. I'm also listening to the Randy Thom interview now. Ha, even his VOICE has bass in it.

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Good luck with the Dissertation.

Thanks! Working on it now, but more on control theory than acoustics at the moment!
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Old 05-09-2012, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by upstate-avfan-da View Post

I got the 3D BD delivered yesterday but probably won't get to watch until friday :-( Will definitely confirm after I get to. But reviews have it up there for 3D.

Thanks! As you might noticed already, I purchased my 3D copy today and looking forward to see it tomorrow!

Cheers.
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Old 05-09-2012, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by cr136124 View Post

Thanks! As you might noticed already, I purchased my 3D copy today and looking forward to see it tomorrow!

Cheers.


I've just received Underworld and The Divide. Will watch them both this weekend. Paid off the neighbors, but now it's back to what to do about the wife.



Ian

The best way to succeed in life is to act on the advice you give to others

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Old 05-10-2012, 12:57 AM
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Just read that Immortals was the first film mixed with an IOSONO system? Also said ToddAO went with IOSONO? Marc??

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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Old 05-10-2012, 07:14 AM
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Underworld was too much for my sub (Outlaw LFM-ex plus)--the poor guy was having a hard time with the really intense stuff (the super Lycan). Also, that was the first time I had to turn my sub down, I don't know if that was because the level knob was messed with (high possibility) or if the bass was just really that hot. It reminded me of Hot Fuzz, where everything goes SWOOSH and BOOM! I guess I have to disagree with some of the posters on here... yeah, you CAN have too much bass.
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Old 05-10-2012, 07:31 AM
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Thinking about buying Awakening. How is it in terms of story, action, and sound?
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by SmokenAshes View Post

Thinking about buying Awakening. How is it in terms of story, action, and sound?

It depends on what you like. The story is nonsense. Have you seen any of the previous Underworld movies? It's basically vampires vs werewolves. There's plenty of action and it's mostly Kate Beckinsale kicking ass. The sound is great and the bass is some of the most intense ever.
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by SmokenAshes View Post

Thinking about buying Awakening. How is it in terms of story, action, and sound?

Audiowise it's decent, not over cooked like some more recent releases.
I'm a fan of the previous films. The film felt short to me and missing something, I bet it's laying on the cutting room floor.
I'm hoping there will be an extended cut at some point.
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Old 05-10-2012, 09:06 AM
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Audiowise it's decent, not over cooked like some more recent releases.
I'm a fan of the previous films. The film felt short to me and missing something, I bet it's laying on the cutting room floor.
I'm hoping there will be an extended cut at some point.

Wow yeah. Just looked at the run time. That's kinda a red flag.

Kaboom.
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Old 05-10-2012, 09:19 AM
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Maybe it's just me getting old, but I find most movies at 2 hours + seem overly long unless they happen to have gripping stories. Underworld Awakening's story was really nothing special. It was basically just a lot of dumb, though very effective action. At under an hour and a half, I though it was just right.
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Old 05-10-2012, 09:44 AM
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Pretty crappy movie story wise, good sound, and pretty sweet action. Kate beckinsale (sp) is hot.
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Old 05-10-2012, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

Maybe it's just me getting old, but I find most movies at 2 hours + seem overly long unless they happen to have gripping stories. Underworld Awakening's story was really nothing special. It was basically just a lot of dumb, though very effective action. At under an hour and a half, I though it was just right.

I'm 24 and have the same thoughts. Anything more than 2 hours better be well worth it. I gave up on Avatar after the first hour. Tried to watch the Thin Red Line a few nights ago and gave up on it to. I had seen it before when I was younger but, just couldn't sit through 3 hours of it again. Catch Me If You Can, Braveheart, The Green Mile, and Dances with Wolves are all on my list of long movies that push the threshold of too long. They are all good movies but, after the first couple hours I found myself wondering when they would end.
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Old 05-10-2012, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post


All you do is bully me with comments that we should monitor what we are mixing, giving me the suggestion that we introduce a filter into our b-chain that we can turn on and off at will, and in the same breath then say you're not advocating full range monitoring, then saying we need to monitor the ULF...

Am I the only one confused by this?

Hopefully, yes. I do not advocate full BW reproduction in cinemas. That has nothing to do with the discussion of what content you're mixing with what monitoring capability. I made the distinction (apparently unsuccessfully) to attempt to keep the cinema playback systems out of the discussion.

There's nothing more to it.



Quote:
Now you're putting word in my mouth and I don't appreciate it.

I never said metering wasn't important....

I don't use it as a a barometer to gauge what should be coming out of the speakers...

I use my ears for that....

When it comes to the subject of this thread, why does it sound "unreasonable."

In the end, it's what it sounds like, not what the RTA is telling you...

As far as putting words in your mouth goes, here are your words, quoted:

Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

It.might surprise you, but in my experience its not based on meterig but just your ears.

I have comprehensive meters available, but I don't think I've used them more than a couple times to look at frequency content.

Most mixer I know would say the same.

I do know that sound designers, in general, are quite well aware of what ULF exists in their material... I know people like Randy Thom work hard at it, as is evidenced by their consistently potent tracks.


What they can monitor on the dub stage is another matter, and its always going to be a compromise when you have an established standard in place (with over 15,000 plus movie screens, etc. )

Here ^^ is what compelled me to post in this "discussion".

What I take away from this is that you are confirming what others have said in the past, that mixers have no way to monitor ULF, most of them doing the mix by ear, so it can only be viewed in the end as unintended artifact that may actually be a detriment to the overall soundtrack, which you have subsequently confirmed with your chief engineer.

I'm sorry but this is huge.

If you choose to ignore the content in the process of creating your end product, for whatever reason, and your chief engineer believes it may actually take away from the quality of your product, why is it in there?

Am I the only one confused by this?

Bosso
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Old 05-10-2012, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by sputter1 View Post


Audiowise it's decent, not over cooked like some more recent releases.
I'm a fan of the previous films. The film felt short to me and missing something, I bet it's laying on the cutting room floor.
I'm hoping there will be an extended cut at some point.

So more of a rental than anything huh?
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Old 05-10-2012, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by bossobass View Post


Hopefully, yes. I do not advocate full BW reproduction in cinemas. That has nothing to do with the discussion of what content you're mixing with what monitoring capability. I made the distinction (apparently unsuccessfully) to attempt to keep the cinema playback systems out of the discussion.

There's nothing more to it.

As far as putting words in your mouth goes, here are your words, quoted:

Here ^^ is what compelled me to post in this "discussion".

What I take away from this is that you are confirming what others have said in the past, that mixers have no way to monitor ULF, most of them doing the mix by ear, so it can only be viewed in the end as unintended artifact that may actually be a detriment to the overall soundtrack, which you have subsequently confirmed with your chief engineer.

I'm sorry but this is huge.

If you choose to ignore the content in the process of creating your end product, for whatever reason, and your chief engineer believes it may actually take away from the quality of your product, why is it in there?

Am I the only one confused by this?

Bosso

You think its huge.

You're the only one making a big deal about.this.

Stop trying to make me and my peers seem incompetent.

We all know there is content in there we can not hear....

There is no difference between a dub and tthe cinema.

Have fun on your crusade.

I have nothing more to add to.this.conversation.
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Old 05-10-2012, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post


You think its huge.

You're the only one making a big deal about.this.

Stop trying to make me and my peers seem incompetent.

We all know there is content.in there we can not hear....

There is no difference between a dub and tthe cinema.

Have fun on your crusade.

I have nothing more to add to.this.conversation. !

Omg yes to this. Now let's talk more about which movies are slammin'.

Kaboom.
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Old 05-10-2012, 10:37 AM
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Omg yes to this. Now let's talk more about which movies are slammin'.

does it matter how low those movies go?

for a while this thread only seemed interested in movies that had content below 15hz

All this noise about noise.
♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫
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Old 05-10-2012, 10:40 AM
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Randy Thom comments on "low frequency" effects. ULF is not mentioned, so does Randy Thom even care about that issue?


http://www.filmsound.org/QA/low_freq.htm
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Old 05-10-2012, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by javanpohl View Post

Underworld was too much for my sub (Outlaw LFM-ex plus)--the poor guy was having a hard time with the really intense stuff (the super Lycan). Also, that was the first time I had to turn my sub down, I don't know if that was because the level knob was messed with (high possibility) or if the bass was just really that hot. It reminded me of Hot Fuzz, where everything goes SWOOSH and BOOM! I guess I have to disagree with some of the posters on here... yeah, you CAN have too much bass.

I watched the first 5-10 mins of it and it had some good intense bass. I plan to watch the whole movie tonite. What do you mean by 'too much for your Outlaw'? Did it distort?
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Old 05-10-2012, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by javanpohl View Post

Underworld was too much for my sub (Outlaw LFM-ex plus)--the poor guy was having a hard time with the really intense stuff (the super Lycan). Also, that was the first time I had to turn my sub down, I don't know if that was because the level knob was messed with (high possibility) or if the bass was just really that hot. It reminded me of Hot Fuzz, where everything goes SWOOSH and BOOM! I guess I have to disagree with some of the posters on here... yeah, you CAN have too much bass.

*Gasp!* BLASPHEMY!!!
I was more concerned with my room falling apart than my sub!
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Old 05-10-2012, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by otk View Post

does it matter how low those movies go?

for a while this thread only seemed interested in movies that had content below 15hz

Personally, what really matters to me is whether the soundtrack moves me, both figuratively and literally. How it achieves that end doesn't overly concern me. If it gets there with a dollop of very low frequencies as some do, that's fine. If it does it with big power at 30hz, that too is fine. The bottom line is whether the sound effects make the film more exciting and engaging. It's like a tasty hot dog. Maybe it's better not to get overly concerned about what goes into it. If it tastes good, enjoy.
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Old 05-10-2012, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass View Post

Hopefully, yes. I do not advocate full BW reproduction in cinemas. That has nothing to do with the discussion of what content you're mixing with what monitoring capability. I made the distinction (apparently unsuccessfully) to attempt to keep the cinema playback systems out of the discussion.

There's nothing more to it.





As far as putting words in your mouth goes, here are your words, quoted:



Here ^^ is what compelled me to post in this "discussion".

What I take away from this is that you are confirming what others have said in the past, that mixers have no way to monitor ULF, most of them doing the mix by ear, so it can only be viewed in the end as unintended artifact that may actually be a detriment to the overall soundtrack, which you have subsequently confirmed with your chief engineer.

I'm sorry but this is huge.

If you choose to ignore the content in the process of creating your end product, for whatever reason, and your chief engineer believes it may actually take away from the quality of your product, why is it in there?

Am I the only one confused by this?

Bosso


I just don't see it as a big deal. There reportedly guys out there in the music arena that can and did make dynamite huge-selling mixes on Yamaha NS10 monitors. Those things sound to me like they are holding their nose and they roll off sharply below about 90 Hz. So the mixer never heard the bass drum sock that they put in at 50 or 60 Hz, at least in its full glory, but knew how to set it relative to the rest of the bass drum sound.

But much like the fundamental of a low E on the bass, the sub 20Hz content in movies is created "naturally" as part of the creation of the effects to which it attaches itself. Which is why it doesn't eff everything up on a system like yours. Get the 20Hz plus part right and the lower frequencies fall in line simply because that's what they do.

I wouldn't go pushing for high passing film mixes if I enjoyed (and could reproduce) the deep stuff. Presumably they don't high pass because they feel that in most cases it doesn't cause real problems. If the theater has ported speakers, they'll be high passed well above the infra region being discussed here, so the signal doesn't get to the woofers or sub at all. IDK if sealed subs would be high passed, but presumably in most sealed speakers the effect of the cab itself would keep the sub from causing massive wasted excursion below the system's ability to output levels high enough to be audible, so that you aren't losing the ability to reproduce higher frequencies (say 30 Hz and up for a typicalish theater) audibly and without undue distortion.

To some degree the issue begins to boil down to how deep one's own system goes. IIRC, yours is lfat to 5 Hz or maybe lower. Hell, there's 2 octaves between 5 Hz and 1.25 Hz that maybe somebody else can reproduce. Should somebody whose system goes to 1.25 Hz be worried if their mixes were made on speaekrs that only go to 5 Hz?

If, as seems to be the case based on the wild if narrow popularity of very low frequency reproduction on this board, the monitoring system currently in use results in a mix that translates well onto systems with deeper extension, isn't that enough? Or should we throw out every recording from the last 2 or 3 decades that was mixed on NS10s because the mixer didn't hear the 40 to 80 Hz octave as it would be reporduced on a fuller range system? If it works, it works. To me that's the end of the story.
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Old 05-10-2012, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass View Post

What I take away from this is that you are confirming what others have said in the past, that mixers have no way to monitor ULF, most of them doing the mix by ear, so it can only be viewed in the end as unintended artifact that may actually be a detriment to the overall soundtrack, which you have subsequently confirmed with your chief engineer.

I'm sorry but this is huge.

It's only "huge" for people that are obsessed with faithfully reproducing content down to single digit numbers and if there were excessive amounts of perceivable low frequency energy in recordings. How much perceived loudness do sounds below 20Hz add or better, how much perceived loudness is taken away when subs roll off below 20Hz? How much sense does it even make to think in pitch and octaves below 20Hz?

Nevertheless it would probably be a good idea to standardize a low frequency roll-off to end this secondary discussion in sound reproduction.

Markus

"In science, contrary evidence causes one to question a theory. In religion, contrary evidence causes one to question the evidence." - Floyd Toole
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Old 05-10-2012, 02:07 PM
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As JHaz says above (paraphrased) 'leave well enough alone'....

If mix stages had 5Hz capability, what's to say that some editors/mixers/whoever wouldn't highpass more than they do now (to preserve headroom, etc)? I LIKE the fact that some films reach to 15, 10Hz and below. But look at all the peak/avg graphs out there, most take a dive below 30 Hz. Could be a shallow dive, but dive nonetheless....

I hope sound editors keep leaving plenty of sub-25Hz goodness like they do now.....I'd hate to lose that just because people 'knew' it was there...

Let's face it. It boils down to economics. An actuary out there has probably done the numbers and concluded that 25Hz was the point where not too much had to be spent per auditorium to reproduce, whether that auditorium was used for production or exhibition. Every octave down requires 4x the displacement.

Although those of us that can reproduce sub-20 and even sub-10Hz content may seem 'plentiful' here, we are not even on the radar as far as general sales. Go around your neighborhood and see who can even do 30Hz. Odds are not many. We are the minority, whether we like it or not. And telling folks in charge at Todd AO that they will need to spend $xx to get to 10Hz, and $xxxxxxxxxxxx to insulate one auditorium from another for 10Hz when 25Hz already bleeds through, they would have you sent to a psych ward, especially if it was to cater to the .01% of BluRay disc purchasers......there is simply NO economic incentive to go 1Hz lower, as much as some of us would want it.....

JSS
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