Originally Posted by FOH
I couldn't agree more. When I see comments like that, in this environment, it is perplexing. We're examining the minutia of the spectral characteristics of LFE/RB in motion picture releases on BluRay/DVD. We're certainly not the anywhere near the masses.
It's not really that perplexing FOH. I'm not talking about the validity of graphing the spectral content of movies or the nature of people who do so. Certainly those who examine spectral graphs are not the masses and more than likely they have superb sub systems.
But again I ask, is the movie industry only catering to this group of people and those who visit this thread? Are you the target market?
Bosso's subwoofer system is relatively modest when compared to many systems that contributors share here at AVS, and elsewhere all over the web. It's the attention to detail, the due diligence in assuring path the signal takes is free from the deleterious effects of accumulative high pass filtration that's an inherent element of electronics design. His system is visually un-obtrusive, and physically takes very little floorspace.
No need to defend bosso's system or contributions. I'm well aware of them. That is not the issue here.
This has been explored, that's why he recoils at attempts to diminish the importance of full bandwidth LFE reproduction. Whatever film it is, experiencing it with a system that's less capable in the bottom octaves reduces the intended effect,...no getting around it. Regardless if the sensation is aural, physical, or most likely a blend of the two, if the filmmakers want a floor rippling, wall pulsing, room pressurization flutter effect, then anything less is just that,....less.
Can I clarify something here, is full bandwidth LFE reproduction from 3-120Hz?
Next question, certainly I agree that the goal is to reproduce the intended effect. No dispute there. The question is what is the intended effect? Is it intended to cover the first 3 octaves? FilmMixer has said:
We all follow the industry standard spec which sharply drops off at 20Hz on the sub channel..
We aren't hearing all the ULF stuff you guys are talking about.. and it's why I've said in the past that if you suspect stuff is down there, as a mixer, you either filter it if you're concerned about it translating down the line, or leavie it in for later, knowing that some HT's go that low...
As I've said in the past, you guys are monitoring stuff which wasn't heard on a dub stage becuase we have subs that are tuned to a standard which most on this thread are not followiing.
I know you disagree with that spec (and bosso does too). Personally I wish the spec allows them to go lower too. However, the rationale was explained for the spec but bosso and perhaps yourself still don't accept it. So we're just discussing that.
I also read comments regarding how financially un-attainable this is, everyone's finances differ, however one of the finest contributors and avid ULF explorer, the late Jordan (aka Krypto), was a contributor of very modest finances. And he managed in solid room response to 5-7 hz with the ubiquitous combo of Fi/EP4K, @ less than approx $1500. He asked questions and got creative. Point being, these positions citing excessive expense for the masses, too much floorspace, etc, really don't apply in my opinion.
Good for Krypto. Again you try to paint a picture that it is easy to attain performance below 10Hz. If it is so easy, why don't we see everyone having such capable systems? Because the fact is that it is not so easy.
Most of these guys are DIY. Many people don't have the time or skill or interest in going DIY. They prefer buying ready made subs and even so, the budget for many people is several hundred. Even that figure of $1500 you mentioned above is above the budget for the "masses". So going back to subs at several hundred dollars, you'll be lucky if it does 20Hz.
I'd like to hear you point of view on "these positions citing excessive expense for the masses, too much floorspace, etc, really don't apply in my opinion."
- What is a reasonable expense for the masses?
- As for excessive floorspace, bosso's stacking solution is very neat I agree. But not many stack like that. At the other end of the scale is notnyt's system which is very imposing. What is your opinion on reasonable floorspace? I'm asking because you see so many comments about people unboxing something like a VTF-15H or FV15HP and saying "it's huge" or they can't get something like that because of WAF and wanted to get a sealed sub.