The New Master List of BASS in Movies with Frequency Charts - Page 238 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Baselworld is only a few weeks away. Getting the latest news is easy, Click Here for info on how to join the Watchuseek.com newsletter list. Follow our team for updates featuring event coverage, new product unveilings, watch industry news & more!


Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-21-2013, 03:49 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Gary J's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: 4000' or sea level
Posts: 7,830
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 179 Post(s)
Liked: 119
Nice try but you are making statements relative to a flat response ("you don't have to run the subs hot to get full effects or[sic] that scene." ) and you are nowhere near it.
Gary J is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-21-2013, 04:16 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
JapanDave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,416
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

Nice try but you are making statements relative to a flat response ("you don't have to run the subs hot to get full effects or[sic] that scene." ) and you are nowhere near it.
Hows so? 105db is 105db @ 20hz, no matter if 100hz is 95db the effects are the same if you are talking about the 20hz content.

My build thread

My 8 x RE XXX 18" Subwoofers, IB build
Couldn't pour water out of a boot with instructions on the heel.

Do you know what Nemesis means?

JapanDave is offline  
Old 02-21-2013, 04:43 PM
AVS Special Member
 
dominguez1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,074
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 263 Post(s)
Liked: 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post


Hows so? 105db is 105db @ 20hz, no matter if 100hz is 95db the effects are the same if you are talking about the 20hz content.

But the overall effect of the scene will be different relative to a flat response.

 

Take WOTW Pod scene for example. As an extreme, if 21hz to 100hz was 15db down compared to 20hz and below, you would most definitely notice the ULF effect more. However, if everything was flat, the ULF would not be as prevalent; as the above 20hz would mask the ULF (relative to it running the ULF hot).

 

Yes, 105db at 20hz is the same output in both instances, but the combined effect and relative sound and tactile feeling of each curve would be perceived much differently.

dominguez1 is offline  
Old 02-21-2013, 07:50 PM
AVS Special Member
 
nube's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 1,383
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Liked: 445
Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post

You can think it's more than a little disingenuous all you like, at reference level I would have to agree with you. But, you can't go around assuming how someone has watched a movie. No matter how the 'house curve' is setup , I very rarely watch a movie at reference level, usually -10 to -15 dB's , so the SPL of 20hz will still only be reference level. If I am not mistaken all of these movies are rated on their merits @ reference level, correct me if I am wrong. If I ever did watch a movie @ reference I state that fact, but all things relative my base is no louder than anyone else's who has a flat in room response and watches the movie at reference..

And just for you information, I set the highpass @ 35hz for my mains and surrounds so more like +5dB's `20hz. wink.gif
And that's all fine, Dave, but it's still about double the actual volume of somebody with a flat response listening at reference. wink.gif That's a big difference!
nube is offline  
Old 02-21-2013, 08:17 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 15,328
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 606 Post(s)
Liked: 603
JD,
You should have said that we should try listening to it with a house curve and then it sounds incredible. I watched Captain America hot and the LFE was great, same for amazing Spider-Man. At reference they were both OK and at least full bandwidth. I course running hot for me goes for all movies like WOTW so I can still compare fairly. I just feel and here any movie with bass.

NanoAvr to Outlaw 975
amps-5 Adcom GFA-555's mono's, Sanway FP14K
5 JBL 2447 CD, 5 2352 horns, 3 15 inch 2035 for fronts, 2 15 inch 2032 for surrounds
subs-IB SI 18ht x12
MKtheater is online now  
Old 02-21-2013, 08:45 PM
Advanced Member
 
bowmah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 842
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
So are we saying that if on average we watch most movies at -10dB, and we want reference gain for LFE, then we should run +10 on the sub channel. Does not sound right to me.
bowmah is offline  
Old 02-21-2013, 09:06 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 15,328
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 606 Post(s)
Liked: 603
Yes that is right, but the response for the LFE still needs to be flat and you better have speakers to keep up or they will get drowned out. The whole point of HT is that we can watch any way we want but if we want to compare we need to have a reference poin and since there is a reference level it makes things easier.

NanoAvr to Outlaw 975
amps-5 Adcom GFA-555's mono's, Sanway FP14K
5 JBL 2447 CD, 5 2352 horns, 3 15 inch 2035 for fronts, 2 15 inch 2032 for surrounds
subs-IB SI 18ht x12
MKtheater is online now  
Old 02-21-2013, 09:35 PM
Advanced Member
 
bowmah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 842
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
I watch many movies at -8 to -15dB. Running the sub this hot (+8 - +15dB) would make it a horrible experience, at least for me. I can imagine it would be like watching movies in a done out show car with Cerwin Vegas.

By the way, does Audyssey not tweak LFE channel somewhat when it knows you are at -15dB and output accordingly somewhat?
bowmah is offline  
Old 02-21-2013, 10:46 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Snowmanick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,637
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 65 Post(s)
Liked: 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowmah View Post


By the way, does Audyssey not tweak LFE channel somewhat when it knows you are at -15dB and output accordingly somewhat?

Not everyone runs room correction, but even for those that do, if they change the trim levels post setup, Audyssey won't override them. So, no.

~Nick

Augustine's Law: "The last 10% of performance generates one-third of the cost and two-thirds of the problems."

"If it works the first time, it's not high end." ~ Harry Pierson
Snowmanick is offline  
Old 02-22-2013, 08:14 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 15,328
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 606 Post(s)
Liked: 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowmah View Post

I watch many movies at -8 to -15dB. Running the sub this hot (+8 - +15dB) would make it a horrible experience, at least for me. I can imagine it would be like watching movies in a done out show car with Cerwin Vegas.

By the way, does Audyssey not tweak LFE channel somewhat when it knows you are at -15dB and output accordingly somewhat?

You need better mains or something. I can run my subs 10 dBs hot and it still sounds awesome! Of course the subs are flat within their band but the speakers keep up in dynamics anyways.



This is with a 80hz crossover and mains on. +/- 2.5 dBs from 6-100hz.

NanoAvr to Outlaw 975
amps-5 Adcom GFA-555's mono's, Sanway FP14K
5 JBL 2447 CD, 5 2352 horns, 3 15 inch 2035 for fronts, 2 15 inch 2032 for surrounds
subs-IB SI 18ht x12
MKtheater is online now  
Old 02-22-2013, 08:18 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 15,328
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 606 Post(s)
Liked: 603
I don't use room correction.

NanoAvr to Outlaw 975
amps-5 Adcom GFA-555's mono's, Sanway FP14K
5 JBL 2447 CD, 5 2352 horns, 3 15 inch 2035 for fronts, 2 15 inch 2032 for surrounds
subs-IB SI 18ht x12
MKtheater is online now  
Old 02-22-2013, 10:05 AM
Advanced Member
 
bowmah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 842
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

You need better mains or something. I can run my subs 10 dBs hot and it still sounds awesome!

I am not sure how someone can determine if others need better mains from that statement. Good one.

Yes those cerwin wegas sounded awesome to the acne nosed dude with the mullet hair doo too.

Glad you enjoy your system at +10dB on LFE.
bowmah is offline  
Old 02-22-2013, 10:25 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 15,328
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 606 Post(s)
Liked: 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowmah View Post

I am not sure how someone can determine if others need better mains from that statement. Good one.

Yes those cerwin wegas sounded awesome to the acne nosed dude with the mullet hair doo too.

Glad you enjoy your system at +10dB on LFE.

bass frequencies that are flat but 10 dBs louder should not sound bad, just louder and in a proper room they should not drown out the speakers, vocals, etc... If they do then something is wrong with the setup, either subs, room, speakers, etc... It could be a peak or null or something.

BTW, it is just a guess. How does anyone determine what is good, most people stick speakers and subs in their living rooms and claim miracles anyways. We get so many opinions and comparisons of speakers and subs and most of the time they don't even know why things sound different and claim one to be better than another without making things on a level playing field. I know this because I was one of them and was scrutinized so I started to get more precise in my comparisons. Measurements can tell you many things and why certain things sound better than others. Why me, well I post many times and try many things and share my experiences. Warts and all.

NanoAvr to Outlaw 975
amps-5 Adcom GFA-555's mono's, Sanway FP14K
5 JBL 2447 CD, 5 2352 horns, 3 15 inch 2035 for fronts, 2 15 inch 2032 for surrounds
subs-IB SI 18ht x12
MKtheater is online now  
Old 02-22-2013, 10:52 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Gary J's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: 4000' or sea level
Posts: 7,830
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 179 Post(s)
Liked: 119
I would go with Mark Seaton, who has seen many a room, who said he has never seen one that would not benefit from electronic room correction.
Gary J is online now  
Old 02-22-2013, 11:20 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 15,328
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 606 Post(s)
Liked: 603
Well, I use EQ, just manually. My room keeps the response the same at every seat when I EQ the main LP. It is a beautiful thing. Well not exactly the same but within a certain range to be inaudible. Our mics measure more accurately than we can hear. Variances within a certain +/- range can't be heard. Of course everyone is different.

NanoAvr to Outlaw 975
amps-5 Adcom GFA-555's mono's, Sanway FP14K
5 JBL 2447 CD, 5 2352 horns, 3 15 inch 2035 for fronts, 2 15 inch 2032 for surrounds
subs-IB SI 18ht x12
MKtheater is online now  
Old 02-22-2013, 01:41 PM
Member
 
crazy4daisy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 198
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowmah View Post

I watch many movies at -8 to -15dB. Running the sub this hot (+8 - +15dB) would make it a horrible experience, at least for me. I can imagine it would be like watching movies in a done out show car with Cerwin Vegas.

By the way, does Audyssey not tweak LFE channel somewhat when it knows you are at -15dB and output accordingly somewhat?

If you have Audyssey Dynamic EQ engaged then yes Audyssey is constantly tweaking lfe as well as other frequencies so as to keep it as realistic sounding at lower volumes as it would if played back at reference. I think that's why it would sound horrible if you were to run your sub 10db hot and engage dynamic EQ at the same time.
My understanding is that the closer the volume is turned towards reference the less dynamic EQing Audyssey is applying and once reference level is reached no dynamic EQing is being applied.
I'm purely talking about the Audyssey Dynamic EQ function. Audyssey room correction has to have been run for the dynamic EQ function to work.

Collingwood Magpies 2010 AFL Premiers
crazy4daisy is offline  
Old 02-22-2013, 03:20 PM
Advanced Member
 
bowmah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 842
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy4daisy View Post

If you have Audyssey Dynamic EQ engaged then yes Audyssey is constantly tweaking lfe as well as other frequencies so as to keep it as realistic sounding at lower volumes as it would if played back at reference.

That is what I thought. Running at +10dB LFE and listening at -10dB volume at 19 minutes in Cloverfield is asking trouble ain't it? lol I just assumed most people would use Audyssey. I paid for a decent receiver, it has tools to help me tweak room variances. Personally, I would use it.
bowmah is offline  
Old 02-22-2013, 03:52 PM
AVS Special Member
 
edoggrc51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Fontana, CA
Posts: 1,426
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowmah View Post

Running at +10dB LFE and listening at -10dB volume at 19 minutes in Cloverfield is asking trouble ain't it?

Not if you have enough woofage (headroom)
edoggrc51 is online now  
Old 02-22-2013, 04:00 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Gary J's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: 4000' or sea level
Posts: 7,830
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 179 Post(s)
Liked: 119
Think of it as Dynamic EQ for abused ears. biggrin.gif
Gary J is online now  
Old 02-22-2013, 06:17 PM
Advanced Member
 
bowmah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 842
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by edoggrc51 View Post

Not if you have enough woofage (headroom)

Alright. Who has enough headroom to take on @edoggrc51's challenge? Volume at 0dB. LFE at +10dB.

Scenes:

WOTW where the alien pod first emerges from the ground

Cloverfield at 19:30 and watch for 4 mins

Disclaimer: if you are not familiar with these scenes, do not try this at home. Some users have reported not daring to go past -10dB on WOTW let alone at reference and +10 LFE.

Should be great if a system can handle if.
bowmah is offline  
Old 02-22-2013, 06:30 PM
AVS Special Member
 
edoggrc51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Fontana, CA
Posts: 1,426
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 62
Hey hey! I said volume at -10 with subs 10bd's hot. lol
edoggrc51 is online now  
Old 02-22-2013, 08:19 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 15,328
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 606 Post(s)
Liked: 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowmah View Post

Alright. Who has enough headroom to take on @edoggrc51's challenge? Volume at 0dB. LFE at +10dB.

Scenes:

WOTW where the alien pod first emerges from the ground

Cloverfield at 19:30 and watch for 4 mins

Disclaimer: if you are not familiar with these scenes, do not try this at home. Some users have reported not daring to go past -10dB on WOTW let alone at reference and +10 LFE.

Should be great if a system can handle if.

I have done that plenty of times. I did it for WOTW and FOTP as well. I even showed a video at one time peaking the meter. Let me get you some data.





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kgUbAeoI7U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dp4jY3rJya4&feature=endscreen&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG0qBO4W3Wo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGf32aDeLc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pi3k3aP4FA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oADUmJGetXc

NanoAvr to Outlaw 975
amps-5 Adcom GFA-555's mono's, Sanway FP14K
5 JBL 2447 CD, 5 2352 horns, 3 15 inch 2035 for fronts, 2 15 inch 2032 for surrounds
subs-IB SI 18ht x12
MKtheater is online now  
Old 02-23-2013, 12:02 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
JapanDave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,416
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

But the overall effect of the scene will be different relative to a flat response.

Take WOTW Pod scene for example. As an extreme, if 21hz to 100hz was 15db down compared to 20hz and below, you would most definitely notice the ULF effect more. However, if everything was flat, the ULF would not be as prevalent; as the above 20hz would mask the ULF (relative to it running the ULF hot).

Yes, 105db at 20hz is the same output in both instances, but the combined effect and relative sound and tactile feeling of each curve would be perceived much differently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nube View Post

And that's all fine, Dave, but it's still about double the actual volume of somebody with a flat response listening at reference. wink.gif That's a big difference!
I understand what both of you are saying, but wouldn't watching the scene with a house curve where the loudest base frequency is @ reference have less tactile effects then a ruler flat room response @ reference?

My build thread

My 8 x RE XXX 18" Subwoofers, IB build
Couldn't pour water out of a boot with instructions on the heel.

Do you know what Nemesis means?

JapanDave is offline  
Old 02-23-2013, 12:45 AM
Member
 
BuzzKillBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 17
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
will there be any updates made to the master list as movies come out? i have a few that should be added (im sure im not alone) would i post that here or i.m. the op?
BuzzKillBob is offline  
Old 02-23-2013, 06:38 AM
Member
 
jeremymak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 104
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuzzKillBob View Post

will there be any updates made to the master list as movies come out? i have a few that should be added (im sure im not alone) would i post that here or i.m. the op?



what is the latest??
jeremymak is offline  
Old 02-23-2013, 08:17 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 15,328
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 606 Post(s)
Liked: 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post


I understand what both of you are saying, but wouldn't watching the scene with a house curve where the loudest base frequency is @ reference have less tactile effects then a ruler flat room response @ reference?

The problem is that your 20hz will be much louder than a flat response 20hz and the midbass will be lower. Normally you would get strong say 20-40hz in a scene with 5-10hz components involved but you are making the 5-10hz stronger so it will feel stronger down low in your room. I like that myself but that is not a flat response at reference. I know what you are doing and it does sound awesome like that because what you are bumping up is all the pressure, tactile, effects and the audible range is still heard nicely.

After posting all those videos I forgot how much time I used to spend down there. Those videos were done with my JBL 3622N's and 8 sealed eD 190v2's all powered with EP-2500's and an Ada processor at the helm.

NanoAvr to Outlaw 975
amps-5 Adcom GFA-555's mono's, Sanway FP14K
5 JBL 2447 CD, 5 2352 horns, 3 15 inch 2035 for fronts, 2 15 inch 2032 for surrounds
subs-IB SI 18ht x12
MKtheater is online now  
Old 02-23-2013, 11:06 AM
AVS Special Member
 
cr136124's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,552
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Liked: 684
Just in case someone is interested - The Art of Flight is available for streaming at Netflix (HD and 5.1)!

cool.gif
freeyayo50 likes this.
cr136124 is offline  
Old 02-23-2013, 01:47 PM
Toe
AVS Addicted Member
 
Toe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 13,847
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 618 Post(s)
Liked: 776
Quote:
Originally Posted by cr136124 View Post

Just in case someone is interested - The Art of Flight is available for streaming at Netflix (HD and 5.1)!

cool.gif


That is good to know. One of my absolute favorite blu rays for A/V. cool.gif Well worth streaming if you have Netflix, but dont know if you want to buy the disc or not.

Watched Sinister last night and while not the lowest or loudest LFE out there, there was plenty of it and it was used VERY well I thought as it felt like its own character in the film and really helped pull me in. There is one great LFE scene toward the end as well which is worth mentioning (not CitW great, but still very good).

I am really curious about the upcoming Wreck it Ralph as far as LFE. Could go either way obviously, but if anyone happens to get this early, I would love to hear your thoughts on the low end.

JVC 3D: Been there, done that, bought a DLP
Toe is online now  
Old 02-23-2013, 08:01 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Oklahoma Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Eastend, SK, Canada
Posts: 1,764
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 28
Dredd - four stars from me. Almost four and a half. More loud than low, for the most part.

The classroom scene was the most fun I've had in a while. Nothing audible, no pressurization in this room, just a subtle trembling of the couch indicating the tapped horns were letting loose with the really low content. Very effective, I thought.
Oklahoma Wolf is offline  
Old 02-24-2013, 12:07 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
JapanDave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,416
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

The problem is that your 20hz will be much louder than a flat response 20hz and the midbass will be lower. Normally you would get strong say 20-40hz in a scene with 5-10hz components involved but you are making the 5-10hz stronger so it will feel stronger down low in your room. I like that myself but that is not a flat response at reference. I know what you are doing and it does sound awesome like that because what you are bumping up is all the pressure, tactile, effects and the audible range is still heard nicely.

After posting all those videos I forgot how much time I used to spend down there. Those videos were done with my JBL 3622N's and 8 sealed eD 190v2's all powered with EP-2500's and an Ada processor at the helm.
Your school of thought and mine seems pretty much the same. Flat does nothing for me.

My build thread

My 8 x RE XXX 18" Subwoofers, IB build
Couldn't pour water out of a boot with instructions on the heel.

Do you know what Nemesis means?

JapanDave is offline  
 

Tags
The Pacific Blu Ray , World War Z Blu Ray Dvd Digital Copy , Ghost Recon Future Soldier Xbox 360 Game Ubisoft , Zombieland Blu Ray , Pacific Rim Blu Ray 3d Blu Ray Dvd Ultraviolet Combo Pack , Star Wars , Olympus Has Fallen Blu Ray , Looper Ultraviolet Digital Copy Blu Ray , Rambo Blu Ray , Project X Blu Ray Dvd Combo Ultraviolet Digital Copy , The Cabin In The Woods , Hellboy Science Of Evil Playstation3 Game Konami , Wrath Of The Titans Blu Ray , Machete Blu Ray , Batman Begins Blu Ray , Tomorrow Never Dies Pierce Brosnan Blu Ray Dvd James Bond , Dredd 3d Blu Ray Digital Copy Ultraviolet , Windtalkers Blu Ray , Battle Los Angeles Blu Ray , Total Recall , Ninja Assassin Blu Ray , Black Hawk Down Blu Ray , The Dark Knight Bd Live Blu Ray , Monsters Vs Aliens , Gamer 3d 3d Blu Ray Blu Ray Ultraviolet , Finding Nemo , Piranha 3dd Blu Ray , Iron Man Blu Ray , Avatar Three Disc Extended Collectors Edition Bd Live Blu Ray , Mr Brooks Blu Ray Blu Ray 2009 , Real Steel Two Disc Blu Ray Dvd Combo , Jack The Giant Slayer Blu Ray 3d Blu Ray Dvd Ultr
Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off