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Old 09-02-2011, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by kemiza View Post

What happen to the bass in Suckerpunch?

It got sucker punched out of the mixing booth. It was a big letdown for me.

Watched Eragon with the Rifftrax on again last night - took some time out from the funny stuff to switch to the Dolby Digital track where it seemed like there would be a lot of LFE. Yup, Randy Thom had fun with that one. Can't vote on a star rating though... I need to watch the whole movie to do that, and there's no way that's happening without the Rifftrax. Just too awful a movie. There is a lot of LFE in there though.

Grabbed Two Days from Now... er, The Day After Tomorrow out of the Walmart $8 Blu-Ray bin today. Will be running it through the tapped horns the day after today to see what it's like.
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Old 09-03-2011, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Mpray1983 View Post

Most people on this thread have bass that hits much deeper and harder than imax

Really...

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Old 09-03-2011, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kemiza View Post

Really...

Are you being sarcastic?
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Old 09-03-2011, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Mpray1983 View Post

Are you being sarcastic?

No. If a system hits harder than Imax I would like to hear it.

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Old 09-03-2011, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kemiza View Post

No. If a system hits harder than Imax I would like to hear it.

My one showroom sounds alot better then IMAX way deeper 2 Paradigm Sub2 and 2sub12 but don't forget my room is way smaller then an IMAX.
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Old 09-03-2011, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kemiza View Post

No. If a system hits harder than Imax I would like to hear it.

IMAX theaters only extend to 20hz. My SUbs reach 12hz and their are many other members on this thread that go well into single digits. Granted the room is much smaller. IMAX uses 8 18's and 15,000 watts and we have a member named notnyt that has 8 18's and much more power than any IMAX. The best movie theaters are the premier movie theaters which I have never been to because Philly sucks like the RPX. That gives you much better sound than any IMAX ever could. IMAX is impressive because of the screen but not so much the sound. Don't get me wrong I'm a fan of IMAX and drive 45 minutes to king of Prussia at midnight during big premiers but movies don't get their true test until I bring them home.
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Old 09-03-2011, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpray1983 View Post

IMAX theaters only extend to 20hz. My SUbs reach 12hz and their are many other members on this thread that go well into single digits. Granted the room is much smaller. IMAX uses 8 18's and 15,000 watts and we have a member named notnyt that has 8 18's and much more power than any IMAX. The best movie theaters are the premier movie theaters which I have never been to because Philly sucks like the RPX. That gives you much better sound than any IMAX ever could. IMAX is impressive because of the screen but not so much the sound. Don't get me wrong I'm a fan of IMAX and drive 45 minutes to king of Prussia at midnight during big premiers but movies don't get their true test until I bring them home.

Very good comments. I only question the 20hz extension.

I'd like to see an theater, IMAX or otherwise, that could offer extension into the low 20's. 8 vented 18's,...it ain't happening. Too many cubes, too much distance, no real applicable PVG. Now impact, yes IMAX has adequate impact. However, what I take away from IMAX is a harshness that is tough to get around. I'm not sure if it's born out of HOM, or other high level playback horn issues, but it's there. There exists a fine line between adequate vocal intelligibility, and over harshness. While mixing live, it's a constant struggle and one I'm very attuned to. The critical midband must be clearly delineated. It must possess that perfect edge of presence and intelligibiltiy,...without crossing over into harshness. It's a very critical area due to our overwhelmingly sensitive hearing in those octaves. Presence, without harshness.

But extension to 20? I'd bet it's an octave higher, ~35-40. whatever they're using, those boxes would un-load at 20, in my opinion. I really don't recall seeing/reading a definitive description or equipment list of an IMAX sound system, but I've never heard anything down that low.

Maybe I'm wrong, what do the finest theaters use for LFE,..as I don't know? I do know what I've heard in the half dozen or so IMAX joints I've visited.

Thanks



-------
btw; I believe there are some custom installs of the Thigpen Rotary, with that you'd have good extension, decent impact. Just so, so many cubes in an IMAX. Makes it very tough to be solid to 20hz. I'm not smart enough to know how many real subs it'd take. Mark Seaton, or Nathan Funk could spec the space with "x" amount of their products. I know of no other mfrs. that make a sub I'd buy for true bottom octave extension.

Paul Hales, founder of the truly superb Hales audiophile loudspeakers, has founded what I consider one of the premiere cinema/home cinema loudspeaker manufacturers. Pro Audio Tech seems to address every issue I'm concerned with. They've got a 21" cinema sub that, in multiples, would likely extend deeper than the fine JBL products often found behind the screens.


Thanks

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Old 09-03-2011, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH View Post

Maybe I'm wrong, what do the finest theaters use for LFE,..as I don't know?I do know what I've heard in the half dozen or so IMAX joints I've visited.

FYI... IMAX doesn't have an LFE channel.
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Old 09-03-2011, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

FYI... IMAX doesn't have an LFE channel.

That's one reason I worded it "finest theaters".

As I've said, the topology and equiptment is something I know little about. The user experiance I'm intimately familar with however. I've seen pics, LF cabinets, etc., next to screen channels, in between screen channels, etc. I've got Holman's Surround book, maybe I could learn something in there. With Everest's and Toole's books next to Tom Holman's, it doesn't get picked up much.

FilmMixer, I've appreciated what contributions I've read of your's, in your opinion, what do the finest theaters have wrt extension? What is the best public theater LF in existence that you're aware of? What's out there? Is any facility utilizing a LLT, or an approach to deepen the extension more-so than the typical pro vented box?

Are you Also, could you help me out with my understanding of the articulation/harshness issue I related?

Thanks for any consideration

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Old 09-03-2011, 04:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LetoAtreides82 View Post

Does Downfall really have a lot of bass? I saw it ages ago (rental) before I got my ht so I wouldn't know. I thought there was a lot of dialogue in the movie. Either way I loved the film and would consider getting it on blu-ray.

There is plenty, but maybe it's still 4 star movie for the sake of near three hour lenght. I think blu-ray have only lossy dolby digital, but it should be good one.

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/m...wnfalldts1.jpg
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/m...wnfalldts2.jpg
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/m...wnfalldts3.jpg
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/m...wnfalldts4.jpg
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Old 09-03-2011, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH View Post

Very good comments. I only question the 20hz extension.

I'd like to see an theater, IMAX or otherwise, that could offer extension into the low 20's. 8 vented 18's,...it ain't happening. Too many cubes, too much distance, no real applicable PVG. Now impact, yes IMAX has adequate impact. However, what I take away from IMAX is a harshness that is tough to get around. I'm not sure if it's born out of HOM, or other high level playback horn issues, but it's there. There exists a fine line between adequate vocal intelligibility, and over harshness. While mixing live, it's a constant struggle and one I'm very attuned to. The critical midband must be clearly delineated. It must possess that perfect edge of presence and intelligibiltiy,...without crossing over into harshness. It's a very critical area due to our overwhelmingly sensitive hearing in those octaves. Presence, without harshness.

But extension to 20? I'd bet it's an octave higher, ~35-40. whatever they're using, those boxes would un-load at 20, in my opinion. I really don't recall seeing/reading a definitive description or equipment list of an IMAX sound system, but I've never heard anything down that low.

Maybe I'm wrong, what do the finest theaters use for LFE,..as I don't know? I do know what I've heard in the half dozen or so IMAX joints I've visited.

Thanks



-------
btw; I believe there are some custom installs of the Thigpen Rotary, with that you'd have good extension, decent impact. Just so, so many cubes in an IMAX. Makes it very tough to be solid to 20hz. I'm not smart enough to know how many real subs it'd take. Mark Seaton, or Nathan Funk could spec the space with "x" amount of their products. I know of no other mfrs. that make a sub I'd buy for true bottom octave extension.

Paul Hales, founder of the truly superb Hales audiophile loudspeakers, has founded what I consider one of the premiere cinema/home cinema loudspeaker manufacturers. Pro Audio Tech seems to address every issue I'm concerned with. They've got a 21" cinema sub that, in multiples, would likely extend deeper than the fine JBL products often found behind the screens.


Thanks

IMO, 'impact' is a function of spl in the 50-80Hz range, the 'kick in the chest'. The 'kick in the gut' that a good snare drum recording has is higher.

I agree, most theaters have real trouble below 30Hz.

IIRC, FilmMixer's stage is flat to low teens, but good luck finding a theater that is....because too much LFE would spill over to other auditoriums...

JSS
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Old 09-03-2011, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH

Very good comments. I only question the 20hz extension.

I'd like to see an theater, IMAX or otherwise, that could offer extension into the low 20's. 8 vented 18's,...it ain't happening. Too many cubes, too much distance, no real applicable PVG. Now impact, yes IMAX has adequate impact. However, what I take away from IMAX is a harshness that is tough to get around. I'm not sure if it's born out of HOM, or other high level playback horn issues, but it's there. There exists a fine line between adequate vocal intelligibility, and over harshness. While mixing live, it's a constant struggle and one I'm very attuned to. The critical midband must be clearly delineated. It must possess that perfect edge of presence and intelligibiltiy,...without crossing over into harshness. It's a very critical area due to our overwhelmingly sensitive hearing in those octaves. Presence, without harshness.

But extension to 20? I'd bet it's an octave higher, ~35-40. whatever they're using, those boxes would un-load at 20, in my opinion. I really don't recall seeing/reading a definitive description or equipment list of an IMAX sound system, but I've never heard anything down that low.

Maybe I'm wrong, what do the finest theaters use for LFE,..as I don't know? I do know what I've heard in the half dozen or so IMAX joints I've visited.

Thanks

-------
btw; I believe there are some custom installs of the Thigpen Rotary, with that you'd have good extension, decent impact. Just so, so many cubes in an IMAX. Makes it very tough to be solid to 20hz. I'm not smart enough to know how many real subs it'd take. Mark Seaton, or Nathan Funk could spec the space with "x" amount of their products. I know of no other mfrs. that make a sub I'd buy for true bottom octave extension.

Paul Hales, founder of the truly superb Hales audiophile loudspeakers, has founded what I consider one of the premiere cinema/home cinema loudspeaker manufacturers. Pro Audio Tech seems to address every issue I'm concerned with. They've got a 21" cinema sub that, in multiples, would likely extend deeper than the fine JBL products often found behind the screens.

Thanks
It's actually not separate boxes...it's one box that a person can stand in.
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Old 09-03-2011, 06:17 PM
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This is the IMAX sub that holds 8 18" JBL

http://www.in70mm.com/newsletter/199...ound/index.htm

Also states 20hz - 20,000 frequency range
LL
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Old 09-03-2011, 07:40 PM
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Is it also true that some IMAXs use transducers?
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Old 09-03-2011, 08:17 PM
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The Day After Tomorrow - nothing less than 4 stars. I think I'll vote 4.5.

Since I have the Blu-Ray I can't do any waterfalls, but the tsunami scene was particularly impressive.
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Old 09-04-2011, 07:59 AM
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Anyone here thinks that the LFE in POTC:On Stranger Tides is lacking compared with other blockbusters like Xmen and Thor?
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Old 09-04-2011, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunga99 View Post

Is it also true that some IMAXs use transducers?

Yea I have been to one in Massachusetts that uses transducers. My Philly one doesn't and it's located at the 2nd largest mall in the country. There is also a difference between LIEmax and IMAX. A good way to tell is if you have to pan your head to see the entire screen if anywhere in the front half of the theater. If you don't your getting ripped off.
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Old 09-04-2011, 05:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tim_1335 View Post

Anyone here thinks that the LFE in POTC:On Stranger Tides is lacking compared with other blockbusters like Xmen and Thor?

It was lacking in cinemas too, but that is not that big deal...the movie is full of ****e. Thank god it was freebie.
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Old 09-05-2011, 05:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpray1983 View Post

This is the IMAX sub that holds 8 18" JBL

http://www.in70mm.com/newsletter/199...ound/index.htm

Also states 20hz - 20,000 frequency range

The 20-20k FR is for the compact disc playback of the soundtrack. It the response for the electronics not the LF drivers. This particular install illustrates my point quite well (I believe it's quite dated). 3kw, for 8 JBL LF drivers. Those drivers, cabinets, or power amps aren't designed to plunge the depths of contemporary film-making with authority, unless config'd in much greater quantity. They were the premiere JBL LF driver for a very long time, at the time Those JBL's have a 9mm excursion, and 300watt(600w program power) rating. As good as those drivers are/were, 8 of them can't move enough air in an IMAX sized facility to have any appreciable impact in the bottom octaves. Hell, many studios employed two per side in a control room.

My point was merely by what I've heard myself, I'd guess IMAX LF extension was in the area of most large scale PA's-and it just doesn't get down that low.

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Old 09-05-2011, 06:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxmercy View Post

IMO, 'impact' is a function of spl in the 50-80Hz range, the 'kick in the chest'. The 'kick in the gut' that a good snare drum recording has is higher.

I agree, most theaters have real trouble below 30Hz.

IIRC, FilmMixer's stage is flat to low teens, but good luck finding a theater that is....because too much LFE would spill over to other auditoriums...

JSS

My apologies. My using impact merely intended to convey the overall dynamic effectiveness (similar to visual impact), not some subjective descriptor for cavity resonance, i.e., slam, kick, punch. However, I do know them well



Quote:
because too much LFE would spill over to other auditoriums...

You're absolutely right, good point,...but some of the IMAX facilities I've visited a isolated, single auditorium joints.


Thanks

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Old 09-05-2011, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by FOH View Post


The 20-20k FR is for the compact disc playback of the soundtrack. It the response for the electronics not the LF drivers. This particular install illustrates my point quite well (I believe it's quite dated). 3kw, for 8 JBL LF drivers. Those drivers, cabinets, or power amps aren't designed to plunge the depths of contemporary film-making with authority, unless config'd in much greater quantity. They were the premiere JBL LF driver for a very long time, at the time Those JBL's have a 9mm excursion, and 300watt(600w program power) rating. As good as those drivers are/were, 8 of them can't move enough air in an IMAX sized facility to have any appreciable impact in the bottom octaves. Hell, many studios employed two per side in a control room.

My point was merely by what I've heard myself, I'd guess IMAX LF extension was in the area of most large scale PA's-and it just doesn't get down that low.

Your probably right but the size and how built the enclosure is plays a large part so 3000 watts may be enough to power them in an enclosure that size. It may not hit 20hz and I have nothing to back up my statement besides the article. It would be cool If someone could actually measure the frequency response in an IMAX. From what I hear the premier movie theaters play louder and lower anyways.

They are if you guys want to check them out and see of they are in your area. I would love to hear your review on one of these.

Regal RPX 100,000 watt
Amc ETX theater
Cinemark XD

What is a PA...a normal movie theater?
If so IMAX blows away any normal movie theater where you actually get a tactile sensation when the bass goes off.
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Old 09-05-2011, 12:45 PM
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Wow! Did I open a can of worms or what? We are slightly off topic gentlemen. Can't wait to fire up The Phantom Menace on bluray this month.

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Old 09-05-2011, 06:56 PM
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Watching Super Hybrid. Crappy movie but has some room rattling bass! =-O
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Old 09-06-2011, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpray1983 View Post

What is a PA...a normal movie theater?

PA=public address, in the most strict sense. What I intended was sound reinforcement type cabinets. When one refers to a sound system in the US, a system for sound reinforcement,.. be it a fixed install, or a portable touring system, it's often called a PA. It's somewhat of a holdover from days past, hence Public Address.

i.e., "My wife and I caught U2 last night, man the PA was phenomenal", .. and with 336 cabinets, and a daily operating expense of $750,000, the multi year tour didn't break even 'til about halfway

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Old 09-06-2011, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by FOH View Post

You're absolutely right, good point,...but some of the IMAX facilities I've visited a isolated, single auditorium joints.

Then they have no excuse!!

JSS
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Old 09-07-2011, 07:48 AM
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Re-watched Silent Hill on DVD last night. Voting 3.5 stars on this one. Had a couple moments, but nothing that really stands out in my mind. Saw comparisons to the Haunting in the old thread... it's not even close.

I want to try and get waterfalls for Eragon as soon as I find the time... see if I can match them up with the timestamps listed in the index. Fortunately, using the Behringer I should be able to do that without watching or listening to the movie. Might save my sanity that way.
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Old 09-07-2011, 08:26 AM
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Two of my favorite Blu rays for bass and over SQ are Slumdog Millionaire and This is It - Michael Jackson. Didn't see them on the first page. I've got a second gen PB12 Plus/2 that just shines with those two movies. Cloverfield is also an amazing flick for bass. Sub 20Hz rumble is great, but so is the punch, and many of the movies rated 5 are missing that punch.

A man meets a genie. The genie tells him he can ask for whatever he wants, but his mother-in-law gets double of what he gets. The man says give me a million dollars and beat me till I'm half dead.
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Old 09-09-2011, 01:34 PM
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Sucker Punch had some scenes, which I though were not on par with others in the movie. Gattling gun on the first fighting scene is missing the "punch bass" IMO.

Anyway, I picked-up X-Men First Class today. Lets see how it sounds.
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Old 09-09-2011, 05:52 PM
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X-Men First Class... Wow just watched it it has a perfect blend of low, mid, and upper bass! The movie is not overcooked but done with what I thought was a well rounded mix, it will be talked about and graphed for a while.
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Old 09-10-2011, 03:33 AM
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Someone was selling a compilation bluray of a bunch of great sound and Lfe scenes. Does anyone know who that was?
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