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post #9541 of 21959 Old 08-11-2013, 03:21 PM
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What brands can do 5Hz would JLAUDIO FATHOM F 113 go that low?
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post #9542 of 21959 Old 08-11-2013, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozar View Post

Just posting to say I'm in agreement with others above that Oblivion belongs somewhere in the 4.5 to 5.0 stars category. cool.gif
no doubt!
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post #9543 of 21959 Old 08-11-2013, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by wse View Post

What brands can do 5Hz would JLAUDIO FATHOM F 113 go that low?

My KK DXD12012 has measured output down to 2.5 .
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post #9544 of 21959 Old 08-11-2013, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by wse View Post

What brands can do 5Hz would JLAUDIO FATHOM F 113 go that low?

Pretty sure a lot depends on the room. Closed sealed room with multiple sealed subs. Or some ability of serious output like the OS partnered with some generous room gain. I plan on someday doing a smaller dedicated room built with sub performance in mind. Prob just one row of seating, sealed room, constructed with all of the traditional soundproofing, de coupling, double drywall type stuff. But sticking a few submersives or sealed Captivators in a small room should do the trick. Or like 8 SI 18's...

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post #9545 of 21959 Old 08-11-2013, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Ain't that for sure ! even though I can get around 84db down to around 4-5 hz which can be felt on WOTW it would be something to hear it at full reference but not somthing high on my list , perhaps when I get a second and talk myself into a third and fourth ! It will be nice! but these days as long as the point comes across and is conveyed , I'm good .

Thanks for proving my point. biggrin.gif In all due respect, 84db is not even worth mentioning and the point is nowhere close to coming across at those anemic levels. Don't take offense to that, it is just reality and I am in the same boat as my PB13s fall off in the low teens and don't do anything in the single digits either. Maybe some DIY is in both our futures. My BKs hit single digits, but I'm sure its not the same as the subs doing it. smile.gif

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post #9546 of 21959 Old 08-11-2013, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Thanks for proving my point. biggrin.gif In all due respect, 84db is not even worth mentioning and the point is nowhere close to coming across at those anemic levels. Don't take offense to that, it is just reality and I am in the same boat as my PB13s fall off in the low teens and don't do anything in the single digits either. Maybe some DIY is in both our futures. My BKs hit single digits, but I'm sure its not the same as the subs doing it. smile.gif

DIY far down the road for me did a lot as a teen for car audio, I have always wanted to design and build my own floorstanders though and a sub afterwards if all is well with them maybe indeed. As for ULF output in those single digits you can add some room gain and Audyssey boost to that number I gave as the measurements were out into the room and its a bit better wink.gif but in the end I'll end up with a second while i wait out a decent priced hdmi 2.0 spec settled 4k FP, which might mean I may have 4 by then biggrin.gif
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post #9547 of 21959 Old 08-11-2013, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

In LOTR:FOTR when the Balrog falls there is a shutter effect that is so cool. I don't know how low that is but Madaeel actually had me pause the scene and asked what the hell was that? That sealed the deal on a multiple sealed system for him! Just little things like that I never felt with my ported or horn systems.
What does this "shutter effect" sound or feel like? Gotta find that scene and test it out in my system.
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post #9548 of 21959 Old 08-11-2013, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

DIY far down the road for me did a lot as a teen for car audio, I have always wanted to design and build my own floorstanders though and a sub afterwards if all is well with them maybe indeed. As for ULF output in those single digits you can add some room gain and Audyssey boost to that number I gave as the measurements were out into the room and its a bit better wink.gif but in the end I'll end up with a second while i wait out a decent priced hdmi 2.0 spec settled 4k FP, which might mean I may have 4 by then biggrin.gif


What is DIY and where can you buy them? Is there a website link you can provide? Thanks!
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post #9549 of 21959 Old 08-11-2013, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by mantaraydesign View Post

What is DIY and where can you buy them? Is there a website link you can provide? Thanks!

Your the website on this one as it stands for Do It Yourself wink.gif
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post #9550 of 21959 Old 08-11-2013, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by mantaraydesign View Post

I am not understanding the graphs you guys are showing me. So is the PINK color on the graph shows the Lowest bass like below 20Hz?

For the movie War of the Worlds, how low does that movie really produce in the lowest bass? Is it like 11Hz or lower?

WOTW goes to <1 Hz in the scene I posted. eek.gif

This might help you to understand the SpecLab Graphs:

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post #9551 of 21959 Old 08-11-2013, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Your the website on this one as it stands for Do It Yourself wink.gif

LOL!!

I thought it was a brand name! I guess I should ask where can you buy parts to build a custom subwoofer?


Thanks!
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post #9552 of 21959 Old 08-11-2013, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by bossobass View Post

WOTW goes to <1 Hz in the scene I posted. eek.gif

This might help you to understand the SpecLab Graphs:



Thanks!
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post #9553 of 21959 Old 08-11-2013, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by mantaraydesign View Post

LOL!!

I thought it was a brand name! I guess I should ask where can you buy parts to build a custom subwoofer?


Thanks!

This is an frequently used site
http://www.parts-express.com/
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post #9554 of 21959 Old 08-11-2013, 06:06 PM
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It's quite simple to build a system that reaches reference level to 3-5 Hz. I've been enjoying it for 11 years and have posted exhaustively on the subject on this forum and the DIY subs forum.

Here's a subwoofer reproduction of Irene from BHD at the LP at reference level vs the direct inject digital version showing a virtually exact reproduction with no audible compression or distortions:



Here's the same system showing 112dB at 5 Hz at the LP with virtually no compression, which is more than enough to play any disc in my room:



Note the native response (outdoors or close-mic response) of the sub in the dashed trace. The rest is "room gain", which every room has.

The key (and the point everyone seems to fail to note in these discussions) is to make sure that your signal chain is feeding 5 Hz to the subs and the subs amplifier(s) are flat to 5 Hz.

Most signal chains (Player, if using analog out, AVR SW out, external EQ, amplifier) roll off between 5-20 Hz at varying rates and the roll off of all of the components in the chain are additive. So, no 5 Hz in, no 5 Hz out. No amount of amp power or driver displacement will change that.
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post #9555 of 21959 Old 08-11-2013, 06:32 PM
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Bassobass what sub setup do you have?

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post #9556 of 21959 Old 08-11-2013, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

This is an frequently used site
http://www.parts-express.com/


Thanks for the link!

I really would not know where to even begin building a custom subwoofer from this website. Maybe some of you can help me if I provide some details of what I would like.

I am looking to build an 18" driver subwoofer with an External amp. I did not see any external amps from Parts Express but I am looking for something like between 1000 watts amp or more powerful.

I probably should not ask these questions within this thread though.
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post #9557 of 21959 Old 08-11-2013, 07:14 PM
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http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-7094

 

The EP4000 is probably one of the most popular pro amps for powering subs. It is a little expensive now so I would go with  the iNuke 3000 with DSP for a little more cash.

 

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=248-748

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=248-6706

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post #9558 of 21959 Old 08-11-2013, 07:15 PM
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Watched Oblivion last night at -10 MV, and then replayed bosso's SL scenes at reference...

 

At -10, I would have put it in the 4.5 category...at reference, it definitely hangs with all the big boys and gets my nod for a 5! As many others have said, the bass has a lot of variation, which is always cool. However, what really makes it great IMO, is that when it delivers those big bass scenes...it DELIVERS it! Each scene has plenty of ULF that really add to the realism...this is where most movies fall short. There's a depth and weight to all those ULF scenes, which really make it outstanding. I don't think TIH and WOTW are as consistent in delivering ULF on nearly every big scene... Additionally, there is no mistaking that this has HOT levels of bass throughout the movie.

 

My favorite scene however is one that no one has referenced yet. It happens at 1:52:21 or so when they are entering to see Sally. It starts with a higher frequency sine wave, and then at the time that the time stamp hits, it goes very low...it's pretty much all by itself too. If I had to guess, it's centered around 13-14hz or so...might be lower even. In my room, this is a great 'wobble' effect. (I'd love for someone to graphs this scene!)

 

Overall, the movie was decent...but the bass was killer. Also, the overall audio track and surrounds were unbelievable. Instabuy in my book! biggrin.gif

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post #9559 of 21959 Old 08-11-2013, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrkazador View Post

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-7094

The EP4000 is probably one of the most popular pro amps for powering subs. It is a little expensive now so I would go with  the iNuke 3000 with DSP for a little more cash.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=248-748
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=248-6706


Thanks!

So if I want to do the Dual subwoofer setup, I need to buy 2 external amps correct? Let me put it this way, each external amp is for 1 subwoofer? Let say if I want to make 6 subwoofers, I need to buy 6 external amps correct?
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post #9560 of 21959 Old 08-11-2013, 07:39 PM
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WOTW has more ULF just based on the graphs, higher levels of it too. I have not seen this movie yet as my system is down until my new build is finished.

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post #9561 of 21959 Old 08-11-2013, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

WOTW has more ULF just based on the graphs, higher levels of it too. I have not seen this movie yet as my system is down until my new build is finished.

New build?? Perfection wasn't good enough? wink.gif

 

What are you building now?

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post #9562 of 21959 Old 08-11-2013, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Pretty sure a lot depends on the room. Closed sealed room with multiple sealed subs. Or some ability of serious output like the OS partnered with some generous room gain. I plan on someday doing a smaller dedicated room built with sub performance in mind. Prob just one row of seating, sealed room, constructed with all of the traditional soundproofing, de coupling, double drywall type stuff. But sticking a few submersives or sealed Captivators in a small room should do the trick. Or like 8 SI 18's...

Yes, my dream as well just two rows of seats I need six seats:) I think I will just use 4 subs one in each corner of the room, but on the other hand the largest screen I can get plus at least 11 speakers probably self powered studio monitors like the FOCAL SOLO6 Be. This will minimize the number of boxes, just a Pre/ pro with OPPO BDP-125 in a few years I intend to be no more than 7 feet away from each speaker smack in the middle smile.gif
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post #9563 of 21959 Old 08-11-2013, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass View Post

WOTW goes to <1 Hz in the scene I posted. eek.gif This might help you to understand the SpecLab Graphs:

THANK YOU very helpful
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post #9564 of 21959 Old 08-11-2013, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

New build?? Perfection wasn't good enough? wink.gif


What are you building now?

I member came by today and bought all 12 drivers or all 6 subs after two demos! I forgot how awesome they were built! These little suckers were very heavy at 200 pounds each. He will post his impressions of my room and the experience of getting this into a small SUV or crossover. I did say bring a bigger vehicle! Anyways I played at reference with the bass 8 dBs hot with LOTR:FOTR and 5 dBs hot for WOTW. They wondered why so many complained about reference being too loud or sounding bad! Man those subs were built extremely well.

I am trying out IB for the first time with those 24's!

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post #9565 of 21959 Old 08-11-2013, 08:01 PM
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Oh yeah, my new wedge 10 surrounds are awesome but did no realize how big they are! Holy Snikey's!

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Originally Posted by mantaraydesign View Post

Thanks!

So if I want to do the Dual subwoofer setup, I need to buy 2 external amps correct? Let me put it this way, each external amp is for 1 subwoofer? Let say if I want to make 6 subwoofers, I need to buy 6 external amps correct?

A single amp can power one or more drivers depending on how much power each driver needs and the resistance of the coils. For example, my new build in progress will be four sub drivers connected to a single amp.
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post #9567 of 21959 Old 08-11-2013, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Bassobass what sub setup do you have?

Currently, this one. Still tweaking, little by little. Have been very busy this year and really haven't had the time to run through it completely yet.



The signal chain is -3dB @ 3 Hz. I'm using the OPPO 105 as a pre/pro/player into the signal shaper I designed and built that's flat to DC. 8 X 15" long throw drivers, approx 36 liters of displacement and 1-9KW peak amp for each stack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

Watched Oblivion last night at -10 MV, and then replayed bosso's SL scenes at reference...

At -10, I would have put it in the 4.5 category...at reference, it definitely hangs with all the big boys and gets my nod for a 5! As many others have said, the bass has a lot of variation, which is always cool. However, what really makes it great IMO, is that when it delivers those big bass scenes...it DELIVERS it! Each scene has plenty of ULF that really add to the realism...this is where most movies fall short. There's a depth and weight to all those ULF scenes, which really make it outstanding. I don't think TIH and WOTW are as consistent in delivering ULF on nearly every big scene... Additionally, there is no mistaking that this has HOT levels of bass throughout the movie.

My favorite scene however is one that no one has referenced yet. It happens at 1:52:21 or so when they are entering to see Sally. It starts with a higher frequency sine wave, and then at the time that the time stamp hits, it goes very low...it's pretty much all by itself too. If I had to guess, it's centered around 13-14hz or so...might be lower even. In my room, this is a great 'wobble' effect. (I'd love for someone to graphs this scene!)

Overall, the movie was decent...but the bass was killer. Also, the overall audio track and surrounds were unbelievable. Instabuy in my book! biggrin.gif

Spot on, Dom. The "Wobble Effect" is a perfect description. cool.gif

I capped the scene you're talking about, but I missed it when I loaded the flash drive to bring the caps from the Dell to the Mac. I believe you are exactly correct in the 10-15 Hz assessment. When I get a sec, I'll upload it and we'll see...

I capped 1:52:06 to 1: 53:04 and know exactly what you're sayin'.
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post #9568 of 21959 Old 08-11-2013, 11:48 PM
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Oblivion was fantastic in terms of bass -- good, decently entertaining story otherwise. However, I don't know that I'd go as far to suggest it's a contender against 'WotW,' 'TIH' or 'FotP.' Still, it's an excellent soundtrack and loads of fun. My vote is at around 4 or 4.5

Here's what it looks like between 01:52:00-01:53:00, listening at -10 Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
"Welcome Home Jack" - when Jack finally meets Sally



And then, here's the grand finale between 01:55:00-01:56:00 Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
"Sally Explodes" - when Jack denotes the bomb


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post #9569 of 21959 Old 08-12-2013, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass View Post

Currently, this one. Still tweaking, little by little. Have been very busy this year and really haven't had the time to run through it completely yet.



The signal chain is -3dB @ 3 Hz. I'm using the OPPO 105 as a pre/pro/player into the signal shaper I designed and built that's flat to DC. 8 X 15" long throw drivers, approx 36 liters of displacement and 1-9KW peak amp for each stack.
Spot on, Dom. The "Wobble Effect" is a perfect description. cool.gif

I capped the scene you're talking about, but I missed it when I loaded the flash drive to bring the caps from the Dell to the Mac. I believe you are exactly correct in the 10-15 Hz assessment. When I get a sec, I'll upload it and we'll see...

I capped 1:52:06 to 1: 53:04 and know exactly what you're sayin'.
Wow, these look handsome. Which drivers are those?
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post #9570 of 21959 Old 08-12-2013, 07:27 AM
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