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post #991 of 17411 Old 09-17-2011, 04:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Snowmanick View Post

Just watched this tonight. I was rather pleasantly surprised as the LFE, and the soundtrack in general, was dynamic and appropriate for the onscreen events and kept you drawn in. I'd agree with 4 stars as it was not a bass fest, but what was there was pretty darn good. The movie was entertaining as well.

Loved Hanna too. I'd agree with 4.

btw anyone here get the Star Wars Complete Saga set on blu-ray yesterday? Watched episode 4 yesterday, looked and sounded pretty good to me.
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post #992 of 17411 Old 09-17-2011, 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by LetoAtreides82 View Post


Loved Hanna too. I'd agree with 4.

btw anyone here get the Star Wars Complete Saga set on blu-ray yesterday? Watched episode 4 yesterday, looked and sounded pretty good to me.

Also agree 4 star for Hanna
I picked up the Star Wars saga yesterday hope to watch some time next week.
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post #993 of 17411 Old 09-17-2011, 07:19 AM
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Hanna - DVD, Dolby Digital

The UCA222 was handy, so I did a few waterfalls just to see what I was hearing in this one. Had Hypercube running overnight to extract the LFE.

Will add some more to this later. Didn't have any notes on where the good scenes were, so I have to go find them again. No time for that this morning.

IMDB says Christopher Scarabosio was the re-recording mixer. Makes sense - he did Despicable Me as well.







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post #994 of 17411 Old 09-17-2011, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by bossobass View Post

Hey Doc,

I haven't seen X-Men yet, so I can't comment on the basic diff, but I have to say that Thor having all that content from 30-50 Hz sounds more like some DJ wailing techno music than Thor's hammer causing a shock wave that ripples the ground for as far as the eye can see.

Thanks for the comments and hope you are yours are well...

Bosso

Yes, the hammer Mjolnir causing the shockwave on Jotunheim should have been Hulk sonic cannon good, like Dolby Bit Harvest good.

I hope that the Star Wars on BluRay has been remastered. I remember Episode III having much less LFE compared to Episode II, but a better story (maybe they thought the spectacular audio effects would make up for the horrible storyline in Episode II?). In the 2004 release, Episodes IV-VI got some extra oomph....

One movie I think we all have to rethink is Tron:Legacy. The clipping that occurs in that film becomes incredibly obvious at anywhere above -15dBRef. I have actually found out that the Dolby 2.0 track has no clipping, and though it does not have the LFE and surround content of the Dolby TrueHD track, it is much cleaner. Considering the visuals in that film, it was a complete drop of the ball that they allowed this to happen. It was said that the film was re-mixed for the BD release, and that this is where the problem happened.....

When I first saw the movie at -10dbRef, I thought my speakers were distorting horribly. But my speakers do not have greater than 5% THD throughout their range when played back at -10dBRef....I was very 'glad' to see the graphs that showed the clipping in the audio exonerating my speakers, but it sucks that the soundtrack does this.....I now cannot watch this movie and enjoy it as much.....ignorance must be bliss, as so many reviewers have found this soundtrack to be 'awesome'. I wish they would describe what equipment they were listening with...

And, all hope is not lost.....TF3 in only 13 days....I have high hopes for this one, but I am not expecting Battle:LA ULF, though, after seeing it in the cinema. Battle:LA is my fave so far for this year.....well constructed and executed soundtrack. Some cheese moments in the film I could do without, but great action....


JSS
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post #995 of 17411 Old 09-17-2011, 07:38 AM
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first 2 discs of pacific so far...disc 1 had some amazing bass....excellent quality.
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post #996 of 17411 Old 09-17-2011, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by LetoAtreides82 View Post

Loved Hanna too. I'd agree with 4.

btw anyone here get the Star Wars Complete Saga set on blu-ray yesterday? Watched episode 4 yesterday, looked and sounded pretty good to me.

I watched Episode 1 last night. The Pod race scene has so much bass that it shook the zoom tighter on my projector, had to get up and zoom it back out afterwards.

Definitly an LFE Heavy movie.

The overall sound quality was fantastic.
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post #997 of 17411 Old 09-17-2011, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by squeeks View Post

I watched Episode 1 last night. The Pod race scene has so much bass that it shook the zoom tighter on my projector, had to get up and zoom it back out afterwards.

Definitly an LFE Heavy movie.

The overall sound quality was fantastic.

Haven't seen episode 1 yet but I did hear at the bluray.com Star Wars thread that the pod race scene is demoable stuff. I'm watching them in the order of 456123 so I should get to ep 1 around Monday.
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post #998 of 17411 Old 09-17-2011, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by maxmercy View Post

Yes, the hammer Mjolnir causing the shockwave on Jotunheim should have been Hulk sonic cannon good, like Dolby Bit Harvest good.

I hope that the Star Wars on BluRay has been remastered. I remember Episode III having much less LFE compared to Episode II, but a better story (maybe they thought the spectacular audio effects would make up for the horrible storyline in Episode II?). In the 2004 release, Episodes IV-VI got some extra oomph....

One movie I think we all have to rethink is Tron:Legacy. The clipping that occurs in that film becomes incredibly obvious at anywhere above -15dBRef. I have actually found out that the Dolby 2.0 track has no clipping, and though it does not have the LFE and surround content of the Dolby TrueHD track, it is much cleaner. Considering the visuals in that film, it was a complete drop of the ball that they allowed this to happen. It was said that the film was re-mixed for the BD release, and that this is where the problem happened.....

When I first saw the movie at -10dbRef, I thought my speakers were distorting horribly. But my speakers do not have greater than 5% THD throughout their range when played back at -10dBRef....I was very 'glad' to see the graphs that showed the clipping in the audio exonerating my speakers, but it sucks that the soundtrack does this.....I now cannot watch this movie and enjoy it as much.....ignorance must be bliss, as so many reviewers have found this soundtrack to be 'awesome'. I wish they would describe what equipment they were listening with...

And, all hope is not lost.....TF3 in only 13 days....I have high hopes for this one, but I am not expecting Battle:LA ULF, though, after seeing it in the cinema. Battle:LA is my fave so far for this year.....well constructed and executed soundtrack. Some cheese moments in the film I could do without, but great action....


JSS

Have you experimented yet to see how loud your speakers can go in Tron Legacy without clipping? If so, what db setting was it?
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post #999 of 17411 Old 09-17-2011, 09:57 AM
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The clipping is in the soundtrack. The tops of the waveforms are 'clipped' off, like so:



No matter what volume level you play at, it will be clipped. But the distortions are definitively audible at -15, and if I listen for it, at -20. There are some horrible instances. The worst part is that the main culprits are the front 3 channels. The LFE is not clipped often. This makes the soundtrack clicky and poppy at times. The saving grace is that Daft Punk uses lots of square and sawtooth waves in their music, so it is not as noticeable. I notice it most on sequences where 'smooth' 'instruments' are being used....

Worst part: When sam first hits the grid hit by the laser:



Noter how there is less info in the LFE channel (4th trace down). But LFE channel is subject to a 10dB boost, so it may be moot. All of the room-shaking in this scene seems to be from the clipped and summed and redirected L/R channels. Again, artistic flair? Or poor workmanship?

The surrounds are not immune either:



Thanks to Scott for finding this. I thought it was my speakers, but they never complain at -10dBRef. Only when microphones clip do I sense something wrong. Clear example are some moments in TF2 where Sam is screaming. I thought 'great, I have ablown driver', only for everything to test out great., and the distortion to be easily audible at lower volumes. Another example of distorted/cipped encoded waveforms is the THX Amazing Life trailer available at demo-world. The first few notes are distorted....but not on ScubaSteve's disc....

JSS
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post #1000 of 17411 Old 09-17-2011, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxmercy View Post

The clipping is in the soundtrack. The tops of the waveforms are 'clipped' off, like so:


No matter what volume level you play at, it will be clipped. But the distortions are definitively audible at -15, and if I listen for it, at -20. There are some horrible instances. The worst part is that the main culprits are the front 3 channels. The LFE is not clipped often. This makes the soundtrack clicky and poppy at times. The saving grace is that Daft Punk uses lots of square and sawtooth waves in their music, so it is not as noticeable. I notice it most on sequences where 'smooth' 'instruments' are being used....

Worst part: When sam first hits the grid hit by the laser:


Noter how there is less info in the LFE channel (4th trace down). But LFE channel is subject to a 10dB boost, so it may be moot. All of the room-shaking in this scene seems to be from the clipped and summed and redirected L/R channels. Again, artistic flair? Or poor workmanship?

The surrounds are not immune either:



Thanks to Scott for finding this. I thought it was my speakers, but they never complain at -10dBRef. Only when microphones clip do I sense something wrong. Clear example are some moments in TF2 where Sam is screaming. I thought 'great, I have ablown driver', only for everything to test out great., and the distortion to be easily audible at lower volumes. Another example of distorted/cipped encoded waveforms is the THX Amazing Life trailer available at demo-world. The first few notes are distorted....but not on ScubaSteve's disc....

JSS

What software did you use to get those wave readouts? I'd like to check if my copy of TL has the same issue.
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post #1001 of 17411 Old 09-17-2011, 12:47 PM
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Are you talking about the hissing that starts when the music starts playing like at the very beginning of the light cycle battle when sam is running In slow motion before he jumps onto his light cycle?
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post #1002 of 17411 Old 09-17-2011, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LetoAtreides82 View Post

What software did you use to get those wave readouts? I'd like to check if my copy of TL has the same issue.

I didn't gen the graphs, Stereodude did on this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post20772319

But the graphs agree with what was bugging me when listening to this movie. If you can generate graphs like this, it would be great to see if you note the clipped waveforms as well...

Here's how Stereodude did it:

The Audio track was extracted from the disc with eac3to and decoded to a .W64 and displayed with an audio editor.

Another way would be to just use Audacity and record individual channels with the line outs on a receiver....scenes where clipping is evident to me are intro to the light cycle sequence (fireworks and Clu2's ship lands), the showdown at the portal (where Kevin Flynn 'kills' Clu2), and the beginning of the disc war sequence. I like the effect in the laser digitizing sequence, and since it is of such LF clipping, may not be as easy to pick up with our ears. The more HF waveforms that are clipped are easier to pick up on, as long as your speakers are still within their linear range. If you're speakers are already being strained, it will likely sound no worse.

Again, this could all be intentional, but some of the clipping doesn't sound too good. In other areas, it could simply be called artistic preference, given the amount of reverb and other effects on people's voices and such. I wouldn't be surprised if the Recognizer flybys are purposely clipped to give the 'right' sound they wanted, that of a microphone clipping when a very loud sound source (like a jet engine) goes by...

JSS

BTW - In X 1st Class, the jet flyby is waaaay overdone. Jets flying over a parade shouldn't seem as if a 12.0 Richter Earthquake is going on...
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post #1003 of 17411 Old 09-17-2011, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Mpray1983 View Post

Are you talking about the hissing that starts when the music starts playing like at the very beginning of the light cycle battle when sam is running In slow motion before he jumps onto his light cycle?

That's annoying, but not exactly what I am talking about. Clipping will sound sort of like speakers distorting badly, with clicks/pops/rubs superimposed on the track.... Use Audacity and create some clipped vs non-clipped waveforms and play them back.....or turn up a gain until clipping lights turn on on some of your equipment, but play it back at a lower volume. Clipping can be instantly recognizable depending on the frequency range. It simply doesn't sound right.

My ultimate test for clipping is when I feel like I must reach for the volume control NOW to turn it down before damage results......even though I know I am running all my speakers within their linear range......the instinctual "bad things are happening, right now" switch goes off in my head.....

I use 95dB 1W/1m sensitive speakers for LCR, and they rarely see more than 15W when at 10dB below reference. I use 92dB 1W/1m sensitive surrounds, and they see around 45W maximum at -10dBRef, all within the Xmax of the drivers, and they all have less than 5% total harmonic distortion at -10dBRef with a -3dBRef signal throughout their range. My subs are 105dB sensitive 1W/1m when corner loaded, and they rarely see more than 50W each, and each can see arond 200W below 20Hz, but no more, all with less than 5% THD all the way down to 10Hz. My response falls quickly below 15Hz, and like a rock below 10Hz because I highpass to avoid any extra distortion. When I hear distortion, I can rest assured that it is in the soundtrack, and not because of my speakers as long as I don't play above -10dBRef. I can play to -7dBRef safely without clipping my amplifiers, but the speakers start to distort, and it is fatiguing, so my limit is -10dBRef.

JSS
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post #1004 of 17411 Old 09-17-2011, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by maxmercy View Post

I didn't gen the graphs, Stereodude did on this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post20772319

But the graphs agree with what was bugging me when listening to this movie. If you can generate graphs like this, it would be great to see if you note the clipped waveforms as well...

Here's how Stereodude did it:

The Audio track was extracted from the disc with eac3to and decoded to a .W64 and displayed with an audio editor.

Another way would be to just use Audacity and record individual channels with the line outs on a receiver....scenes where clipping is evident to me are intro to the light cycle sequence (fireworks and Clu2's ship lands), the showdown at the portal (where Kevin Flynn 'kills' Clu2), and the beginning of the disc war sequence. I like the effect in the laser digitizing sequence, and since it is of such LF clipping, may not be as easy to pick up with our ears. The more HF waveforms that are clipped are easier to pick up on, as long as your speakers are still within their linear range. If you're speakers are already being strained, it will likely sound no worse.

Again, this could all be intentional, but some of the clipping doesn't sound too good. In other areas, it could simply be called artistic preference, given the amount of reverb and other effects on people's voices and such. I wouldn't be surprised if the Recognizer flybys are purposely clipped to give the 'right' sound they wanted, that of a microphone clipping when a very loud sound source (like a jet engine) goes by...

JSS

BTW - In X 1st Class, the jet flyby is waaaay overdone. Jets flying over a parade shouldn't seem as if a 12.0 Richter Earthquake is going on...

Thanks.

Yea I was going to mention the jets in X-Men: First Class, I didn't expect it to be so loud.
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post #1005 of 17411 Old 09-17-2011, 09:40 PM
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Picked up I, Robot today out of the Wal-Mart $8 Blu-Ray bin. When I got home, I searched the old bass thread to see if this one had been mentioned... didn't find much.

So, I popped it in. Good gravy. I was at 4 stars until chapter 18, and then it really let loose. My vote is 4.5 stars - I won't consider voting less than that. I'm not sure the whole five stars is uncalled for on this one. Saw many of the same names in the IMDB audio credits as Battle L.A., and it really shows.

Chapter 18 had my hair moving... that doesn't often happen with my MV at -13dB, even with the LFE running another 7dB hot.

I want to video the horns running chapter 18 sometime. Should be fun
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post #1006 of 17411 Old 09-17-2011, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oklahoma Wolf View Post

Picked up I, Robot today out of the Wal-Mart $8 Blu-Ray bin. When I got home, I searched the old bass thread to see if this one had been mentioned... didn't find much.

So, I popped it in. Good gravy. I was at 4 stars until chapter 18, and then it really let loose. My vote is 4.5 stars - I won't consider voting less than that. I'm not sure the whole five stars is uncalled for on this one. Saw many of the same names in the IMDB audio credits as Battle L.A., and it really shows.

Chapter 18 had my hair moving... that doesn't often happen with my MV at -13dB, even with the LFE running another 7dB hot.

I want to video the horns running chapter 18 sometime. Should be fun

That tunnel scene made scubasteves demo disk In the LFE section.
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post #1007 of 17411 Old 09-17-2011, 09:49 PM
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I can see why. Man... that scene was intense. More scenes like that, and five stars would be a really easy call. But it only really did that again once more near the end, with the nanite injection scene.
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post #1008 of 17411 Old 09-17-2011, 09:53 PM
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Beat me to it, I was just going to post how sick that tunnel scene is
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post #1009 of 17411 Old 09-17-2011, 10:11 PM
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My mistake - only Paul Massey worked on Battle: LA and I, Robot. Re-recording mixer both times. Another re-recording mixer listed went on to Sherlock Holmes and X-Men First Class. The sound designer went on to work on the Transformers movies... all of them.

It's almost like a who's who of 4-5 star movies in the I, Robot audio credits.
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post #1010 of 17411 Old 09-18-2011, 04:38 AM
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What about "Troll Hunter"??? has someone tried it yet???

Bye!!
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post #1011 of 17411 Old 09-18-2011, 03:50 PM
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Hey guys,

Got the Complete Saga on BluRay.

I love the BluRay release, the PQ is excellent, it's like I am watching the films again for the first time...and I agree with the Blu-Ray.com reviewer, I have bigger fish to fry than worrying about Lucas' tinkering...I like some to most of the changes anyway...but some are pretty bad.

But I have a problem: there are audio dropouts throughout Episodes II and IV on my BluRay player. Places where it comes to mind are in AOTC at 31:26 and 31:32, as the transport ship takes off with Anakin, Padme and R2...

I exchanged the complete saga for a new one, and it drops out at the exact same places. I run a Sony BDP and a Denon 2809CI receiver, and I upgraded firmware on the BDP today with no effect, dropouts in the exact same timestamps on the disc....

Has anyone else experienced this? Man, I hope that this BD release doesn't have problems...no dropouts on Episode I I remember, but when I heard them in Episode II, I checked Ep IV and dropouts in the first 6 mins, right after stormtroopers bblast their way into the Blockade Runner (Tantive IV)....

JSS
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post #1012 of 17411 Old 09-18-2011, 05:44 PM
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Just finished Xmen. It pulled the HDMI cable out of the back of my projector and caused a disc error in the playstation. Xmen was definetely lower in extension than Thor. The room was shaking like it only does for 5 star movies. I still preferred Thor as an overall soundtrack though.

Also watched Episode I today. Pod Race is demo material! The whole soundtrack has that "modern flare" to it now! Can't wait to see if the rest of the set follows suit.

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post #1013 of 17411 Old 09-18-2011, 07:32 PM
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Hi Maxmercy,

I watched the 3 OT films this weekend and no dropouts. Onkyo 885/ Oppo 93 doing bitstream.

JVC 3D: Been there, done that, bought a DLP
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post #1014 of 17411 Old 09-18-2011, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony123 View Post

Just finished Xmen. It pulled the HDMI cable out of the back of my projector and caused a disc error in the playstation. Xmen was definetely lower in extension than Thor. The room was shaking like it only does for 5 star movies. I still preferred Thor as an overall soundtrack though.

Also watched Episode I today. Pod Race is demo material! The whole soundtrack has that "modern flare" to it now! Can't wait to see if the rest of the set follows suit.

So, did you prefer the overall LFE track from Xmen or Thor better? Which do you think had a better LFE WOW (doesn't necessarily mean ULF) factor?
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post #1015 of 17411 Old 09-18-2011, 08:31 PM
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We just watched Episodes I - IV and I didn't hear any drop outs. I will try to go back and re-watch those parts to double check. FYI: I am running a Denon 2809 with a PS3.
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post #1016 of 17411 Old 09-19-2011, 03:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

So, did you prefer the overall LFE track from Xmen or Thor better? Which do you think had a better LFE WOW (doesn't necessarily mean ULF) factor?

They were pretty equal in overall effectiveness. I'd pick Thor for my tastes though.

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post #1017 of 17411 Old 09-19-2011, 04:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stitch1 View Post

We just watched Episodes I - IV and I didn't hear any drop outs. I will try to go back and re-watch those parts to double check. FYI: I am running a Denon 2809 with a PS3.

Thanks for checking, esp since you have the Denon 2809. It may be my BDP. Will try to pick another one up to see if that is the problem.

JSS
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post #1018 of 17411 Old 09-19-2011, 10:36 AM
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I used to be a Star Wars fanatic (my username may be some indication), but the changes that have been done to the original three movies were really unnecessary. This is a discussion for another thread, but I don't think I'll be buying the BR versions until I get a burner and can remaster them myself to take out the crap he added lol

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Originally Posted by maxmercy View Post

One movie I think we all have to rethink is Tron:Legacy. The clipping that occurs in that film becomes incredibly obvious at anywhere above -15dBRef. I have actually found out that the Dolby 2.0 track has no clipping, and though it does not have the LFE and surround content of the Dolby TrueHD track, it is much cleaner.

...so many reviewers have found this soundtrack to be 'awesome'. I wish they would describe what equipment they were listening with...

I watched TL a couple weeks ago and absolutely loved the sound/bass. I find it interesting what you mention here, because I watched it with a 2.1 setup. I now have a 5.1 setup and was hoping to re-watch it with friends...If it clips like you're saying, it sounds like it's pretty bad :\\ I'll have to test it out before I bring friends over. Ugh.
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post #1019 of 17411 Old 09-19-2011, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by mrcoop View Post

first 2 discs of pacific so far...disc 1 had some amazing bass....excellent quality.

+1

I'm unsure as to the ultimate extension, as it was one of those experiences whereby I'm riveted by the content and lost in the film. I don't believe I replayed a single scene. My wife and I just worked our way through the multi-disc series, entirely captivated.

Thanks

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post #1020 of 17411 Old 09-19-2011, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by swgod98 View Post

I used to be a Star Wars fanatic (my username may be some indication), but the changes that have been done to the original three movies were really unnecessary. This is a discussion for another thread, but I don't think I'll be buying the BR versions until I get a burner and can remaster them myself to take out the crap he added lol



I watched TL a couple weeks ago and absolutely loved the sound/bass. I find it interesting what you mention here, because I watched it with a 2.1 setup. I now have a 5.1 setup and was hoping to re-watch it with friends...If it clips like you're saying, it sounds like it's pretty bad :\\ I'll have to test it out before I bring friends over. Ugh.

It's more annoying than anything when you hear it. Most will not think twice about thinking it ROCKS. The soundtrack is very good save for those moments....take a listen and report back if you think abything sounded weird...

JSS
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