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post #1081 of 25414 Old 09-22-2011, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

While infrasonic material is fun/cool/impressive/etc... it is so room and system dependent to recreate faithfully in different environments, even on dubbing stages, that to use it as a story telling device is not something that should be counted on... filtering off material below 20Hz is fairly common practice for some FX mixers... it's actually fairly good production practice for the reasons I just mentioned..

I'll see if I can ask the original mixer what his intension is/was... I also just visited the room at Fox where this work was done, and I can also inquire about their practices, etc... I will let you all know if I hear anything...



I do not own the Bluray of M&C, but the Bosso Bluray spectrograms look like the LFE channel is either missing or the disc is being played back as 5.0 content.

The loud action effects of the DD/DTS version of the DVD were heavy in the 30 to 50 Hz area on the LFE track. The Bluray version does not show any action there at all. That is hardly the infra area.
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post #1082 of 25414 Old 09-22-2011, 04:57 PM
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I just think it's odd that this was specifically for the BD release. Who knows if there was significant infra content in the theater but the dvd definitely has it in spades.

Just... odd.
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post #1083 of 25414 Old 09-22-2011, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post

I do not own the Bluray of M&C, but the Bosso Bluray spectrograms look like the LFE channel is either missing or the disc is being played back as 5.0 content.

The loud action effects of the DD/DTS version of the DVD were heavy in the 30 to 50 Hz area on the LFE track. The Bluray version does not show any action there at all. That is hardly the infra area.

To me, those two pictures don't look "right" if they are indeed the exact same time and playback level, compensation for DN, etc....

I've put out my feelers.. I'll let you guys all know what I find out.
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post #1084 of 25414 Old 09-22-2011, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

While infrasonic material is fun/cool/impressive/etc... it is so room and system dependent to recreate faithfully in different environments, even on dubbing stages, that to use it as a story telling device is not something that should be counted on... filtering off material below 20Hz is fairly common practice for some FX mixers... it's actually fairly good production practice for the reasons I just mentioned..

I'll see if I can ask the original mixer what his intension is/was... I also just visited the room at Fox where this work was done, and I can also inquire about their practices, etc... I will let you all know if I hear anything...

Thanks FM!

Any chance you could find out why Tron:Legacy has so much clipping? Was it the remix that Kosinksi (sp?) did?

JSS
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post #1085 of 25414 Old 09-22-2011, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by maxmercy View Post

Thanks FM!

Any chance you could find out why Tron:Legacy has so much clipping? Was it the remix that Kosinksi (sp?) did?

JSS

I don't think that Kolinski did the remix all by himself..

I am going to see Gary, who mixed the film, at the beginning of November... we will have a nice long talk about it then..
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post #1086 of 25414 Old 09-22-2011, 06:20 PM
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Awesome! Thanks, FilmMixer.
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post #1087 of 25414 Old 09-22-2011, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

I don't think that Kolinski did the remix all by himself..

I am going to see Gary, who mixed the film, at the beginning of November... we will have a nice long talk about it then..

Looking forward to it....

JSS
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post #1088 of 25414 Old 09-22-2011, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

While infrasonic material is fun/cool/impressive/etc... it is so room and system dependent to recreate faithfully in different environments, even on dubbing stages, that to use it as a story telling device is not something that should be counted on... filtering off material below 20Hz is fairly common practice for some FX mixers... it's actually fairly good production practice for the reasons I just mentioned..

I'll see if I can ask the original mixer what his intension is/was... I also just visited the room at Fox where this work was done, and I can also inquire about their practices, etc... I will let you all know if I hear anything...

I'm sure we'd all appreciate hearing the responses about that. I have to say, though, having both versions, the difference in realism and storytelling is night and day in that particular opening cannon fire sequence. The DVD's DTS mix is immersive, potent, and thrilling. If you've ever heard big cannons fired up close and personal in real life, this is a reasonably accurate presentation of the effects on the ears and body, and it really sets the tone of the movie. The BR mix is flat, dry and lacking by comparison.
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post #1089 of 25414 Old 09-23-2011, 08:32 AM
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Back when all of the discussion over the dissapointment with the M&C BR was going on didn't a member from overseas (France?) post spectrum plots that seemed to indicate that their version was not filtered in the same way as the NA version?
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post #1090 of 25414 Old 09-23-2011, 09:08 AM
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It was the French audio track that I believe is unfiltered. It's on the US Blu-ray disc.
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post #1091 of 25414 Old 09-23-2011, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

It was the French audio track that I believe is unfiltered. It's on the US Blu-ray disc.


Is there more than one M&C Bluray for the US?


The audio in this version is called better than the DVD per the customer reviews!

Quote: "The audio is the real spark that ignites Master and Commander, bringing life to the action. This was apparent even in the DVD version, but the Blu-ray goes beyond the excellent sound quality of the earlier release."


http://www.amazon.com/Master-Command...ef=pd_cp_mov_1
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post #1092 of 25414 Old 09-23-2011, 09:58 AM
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The typical customer doesn't have bass below 30hz.
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post #1093 of 25414 Old 09-23-2011, 10:38 AM
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The typical customer doesn't have bass below 30hz.

yep, ...but if you make it for them they're happy,..we freaks are pissed

make it for us, everybody's happy

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post #1094 of 25414 Old 09-23-2011, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

It was the French audio track that I believe is unfiltered. It's on the US Blu-ray disc.

So we just watch the French version with subtitles and all is well.
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post #1095 of 25414 Old 09-23-2011, 11:01 AM
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Better off just watching the dvd, in that case.
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post #1096 of 25414 Old 09-23-2011, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

So we just watch the French version with subtitles and all is well.


The 2011 version is English only!
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post #1097 of 25414 Old 09-23-2011, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Better off just watching the dvd, in that case.


Actually, I don't think I care about ever "watching" M&C as a movie any more. These days I just use the DVD when I need a reference audio track.
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post #1098 of 25414 Old 09-23-2011, 12:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

So we just watch the French version with subtitles and all is well.

I wonder what it would sound like if you stripped the English center channel and swapped it into the French DTS-HD MA track.

I imagine if you swapped the French LFE channel into the English track you wouldn't recover all of the low end. Unless someone knows where all of that <35Hz was placed.

Someone fluent in more advanced audio wizardry could probably swap out <50Hz on all channels and probably be ok with the vocals.
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post #1099 of 25414 Old 09-23-2011, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiGBADDABOOM View Post

I wonder what it would sound like if you stripped the English center channel and swapped it into the French DTS-HD MA track.

I imagine if you swapped the French LFE channel into the English track you wouldn't recover all of the low end. Unless someone knows where all of that <35Hz was placed.

Someone fluent in more advanced audio wizardry could probably swap out <50Hz on all channels and probably be ok with the vocals.

Swapping the English center for the French one can mostly work, but not all dialog comes from the center. Sometimes it can come from offscreen left or right or sometimes even from behind. There are also sometimes intentional echos if the setting calls for it. The echos would sound odd in French.

It is common for pirated Russion DVD's in 5.1 to be dubbed over by English center channels and it works to a varying degree. (So I've heard)

It would work better to dub the LFE from the DVD over the LFE from the Blu-Ray. Or else, The entire DVD sound could be dubbed over the Blu-Ray sound. You would give up lossless, but gain the full bottom.
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post #1100 of 25414 Old 09-23-2011, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post


So we just watch the French version with subtitles and all is well.

I think in the French version they turn and run instead of fighting though.
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post #1101 of 25414 Old 09-23-2011, 02:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

Swapping the English center for the French one can mostly work, but not all dialog comes from the center. Sometimes it can come from offscreen left or right or sometimes even from behind. There are also sometimes intentional echos if the setting calls for it. The echos would sound odd in French.

It is common for pirated Russion DVD's in 5.1 to be dubbed over by English center channels and it works to a varying degree. (So I've heard)

It would work better to dub the LFE from the DVD over the LFE from the Blu-Ray. Or else, The entire DVD sound could be dubbed over the Blu-Ray sound. You would give up lossless, but gain the full bottom.

That's what I was thinking, I guess it might work but would sound pretty strange at times.

If an LFE swap would solve it, you would source the French Blu-ray as it has French DTS-HD MA (assuming it's unfiltered like the French lossy track on the US BD).

The question then is whether the LFE channel contains the ULF or the main channels, or both.
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post #1102 of 25414 Old 09-23-2011, 02:15 PM
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Maybe someone could mux a copy with the French DTS-MA LFE track onto the English DTS-MA. Way beyond my skills but I'm sure someone like scubasteve could pull it off.
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post #1103 of 25414 Old 09-23-2011, 02:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mpray1983 View Post

Maybe someone could mux a copy with the French DTS-MA LFE track onto the English DTS-MA. Way beyond my skills but I'm sure someone like scubasteve could pull it off.

That much is easy enough, decode the DTS-HD MA into discrete WAV with eac3to, swap the LFE and either pack into LPCM or encode back into DTS-HD MA (requiring the DTS encoder of course).

What may be more difficult is if the missing ULF is in the main channels or both the mains and LFE.
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post #1104 of 25414 Old 09-23-2011, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiGBADDABOOM View Post


That much is easy enough, decode the DTS-HD MA into discrete WAV with eac3to, swap the LFE and either pack into LPCM or encode back into DTS-HD MA (requiring the DTS encoder of course).

What may be more difficult is if the missing ULF is in the main channels or both the mains and LFE.

Could you take just the center Channel out of the English and swap it with the french version?
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post #1105 of 25414 Old 09-23-2011, 06:02 PM
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Actually, the French version is yet a 3rd soundtrack, completely different from the English BR and original DTS DVD versions.

Here is the scene where Crowe is deafened by the cannonball hits on his ship. The French version has much more ULF to DC and a droning 4-6 Hz addition. Remember, I mic'd this, and was only good to 5 Hz back then. I can't find the direct-from-player screenshot, but it had content all the way down.



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post #1106 of 25414 Old 09-23-2011, 07:15 PM
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Sorry to interject in MC talk.

Just wanted to give a vote on Ep V on blu ray, at least 4.5 maybe looking like a possibility for a 5. These destroyer fly by scenes are full of nice LFE. Just half hour in and the quality of the audio seems better than Ep IV so far.

PS might have to buy MC to see what all the discussion in about.

Bit by the upgrade bug, limited by the WAF
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post #1107 of 25414 Old 09-23-2011, 09:25 PM
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I finally got a new sub, and can vouch that The Hulk definitely deserves a 5. The sequence with the sonic cannon scene (the whole part before and after too) is unreal!
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post #1108 of 25414 Old 09-24-2011, 06:41 AM
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A few votes......

Thor, 5 stars. Yeah I know about the 20hz filter, but this one still deserves a 5 for amount, variety and pure LFE output.....awesome!!

Star Wars OT.....4 stars. Amazing for films of this age, but pale in comparison to the better/best modern LFE tracks.
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post #1109 of 25414 Old 09-24-2011, 07:22 AM
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A few votes......

Thor, 5 stars. Yeah I know about the 20hz filter, but this one still deserves a 5 for amount, variety and pure LFE output.....awesome!!

I agree that the Thor BD has great LFE but then my HT audio system is capable of reproducing bass frequencies down to "only" 18Hz.
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post #1110 of 25414 Old 09-24-2011, 07:44 AM
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Are the 2008 & 2011 M&C BD identical?

Panasonic TC-P50ST60 plasma HD television, Onkyo TX-SR805 and PIONEER ELITE VSX-47TX receivers, Klipsch RB-75(2 pair) and RB-61 bookshelf speakers, Klipsch RSW-10, RSW-12(2), Velodyne HGS-12, HGS-18 subwoofers, OPPO BDP-103, PS3 80G, PIONEER DV-525 dvd player, Klipsch RS-42 surrounds, Klipsch RC-52 center channel
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