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Old 01-10-2014, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass View Post

FM,

Thanks for letting me know what I've always done. smile.gif

You questioned Dave's assertion that his HT audio system is better than a cinema:
Of course, those of us who've followed Dave's build know that he's correct with no debate required. He has more bandwidth, more headroom and can listen at far greater levels with extremely low non-linearities at his seat than in any theater you can name, bar none.

You obviously did not know that but took his simple statement of fact in a defensive manner and called him out in what I feel was a condescending fashion. You've always taken the position that us enthusiasts are a bunch of incompetents who don't know how to build rooms, don't understand acoustics, don't have a clue about pro sound systems or pretty much anything, especially anyone who questions anything you post.

Of course, you're entitled to your opinion as well, but I also believe you are far off base, as Dave proved in his own case.

Dave.. please don't tell me that I was condescending to JD.. he didn't take it that way, and I appreciated his response, and the effort (both financially and enthusiastically) that he put into his room... he certainly didn't take offense that I know of..

You can't compare his room to a commercial cinema because of it's size... you know as well as I do that large room low frequency reproduction is a much different animal than a 22 x 15 foot room. He understood the distinction I was making, and I really was curious about what he had in his room...

After looking at it, it certainly rivals the best screening rooms, and some studios, I've been in (and that's what I would compare it to...) I would certainly hope so as he spent as much as most of those places have..

Again, your tone gives off an air of superiority about the way things should be that I don't happen to agree with,or find that appealing at all...

Every time I post, you reply in a contrary manner.... in the end, I get paid to do what I do, and have been able to make a 26 year career out of it. There is a reason for it, regardless of my gaps in knowledge in certain areas...

I get it.... as a sound community, we don't measure properly, we don't monitor properly, we're all over the map, etc....

It's amazing any film comes out that sounds decent at all.. rolleyes.gif

As I stated earlier, I'm much more concerned with how a soundtrack helps tell the story, and use my ears and experience rather relying on plots, graphs and charts to tell me what sounds good...

"Riddick" doesn't have any ULF... however, I think I did pretty good with the other 20,000 frequencies at my disposal.

I know, I know.. this is the bass thread... and again, as I said earlier, I'm not overly concerned with ULF... I have a bigger picture in mind.
Quote:
Staying on your point, you said that every audiophile should strive to hear what you heard on your sound stage. I'll ask again, how may any of us possibly know what you heard on the sound stage

You know what our specs are for film production, and can strive to match that...

We mix a film, and then take it out into the world to be shared.... while you can't of course change certain things in any given venue (RT, wall surfaces, sub capability, rake, etc) we have found that in a vast majority of cases, a vast majority of the time, we get close enough so that everyone is happy that what we are hearing is representative of what we did on the dub stage.

After almost 120 films as a mixer, I can tell you that in hearing my work in many different environments. translation isn't as big of an issue as you make it out to be...

Best to you.. no more from me.
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Old 01-10-2014, 02:05 PM
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Reading about JapanDaves theater makes me want to pack up my toys and go home.

Color me impressed!!
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Old 01-10-2014, 02:21 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Ozzie Isaac View Post

Reading about JapanDaves theater makes me want to pack up my toys and go home.

Color me impressed!!

Yeah, but that would be like comparing a super yacht to your bass boat or your living room to the living room of the super rich......not realistic.

And yes, I would love to have a super "living room" Home Theater system as in our case, a living room system will get more use and my wife and I will share more time together.

(currently setting up our Denon 4520ci as I deal with allergies.......ohhhhhh)

(the blu-ray player gives off sound but the television is quiet)

...rolleyes.gif..

And then the allergies kicked in so I'm vacillating between the computer and the recliner.....I knew it.

...tongue.gif

(no idea yet on REW measurements)
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Old 01-10-2014, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raynist View Post

I am thinking that someone could use one with each front speaker (L/C/R). It looks like these have high level inputs so you could run the speaker wire from the AVR for each front channel to a mid bass module and then from the MBM to each front speaker. Is there a down side to doing this?

It seems this would simplify the integration with the rest of the system as you would really just be adding a 12 inch powerd driver to each front channel and not having to split your LFE signal or worry about phase or distance (if they are right next to the LCR speakers). Would this work or am I totally off with my thinking? I could add three of these for the cost of one JTR 228 L/C/R (which I know have other obvious advantages over my front three speakers)

Thanks
Ray
You could do this, the downside is that your main speakers would have to share the same low frequency cut off as the MBM. In other words to maximize the benefit of the MBM let's say its range is 50hz to 150hz, now your Mains will also have to play down to 50hz which they might have issue with and either bottom out or distort. So you'd get the added midbass contribution-win, but now your Mains could take a hit-loss. Just depends on the scenario.
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Old 01-10-2014, 02:50 PM
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I think these will solve the rest of our problems...
"You'll hear better separation of sounds and instruments, with less low-level masking."

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/tweaks-parade-audio-announces-our-new-carbon-fiber-outlet-cover-2014-01-10-accessories-60060
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Old 01-10-2014, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raffin View Post

The Regal Continental near Hampden and I-25 has Dolby ATMOS in their large theater room. Not all movies are encoded for ATMOS, so you have look at the movie listings carefully. My wife and I saw Gravity there and it sounded very good to me. The IMAX near I-25 and Colorado is also very good.

Thanks Raffin! smile.gif I live just a few miles from the IMAX near I-25 and Colorado and have seen maybe a handful of movies there over the years which my comments were partly based on.

I have not experienced ATMOS though and will definitely check out the Hampden and I-25 theater which is also right near me. Thanks for the recs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

There is a 9 channel bed (7.1 plus two overhead arrays.).

Up to 62 discrete outputs from the processor.

(For example out two ATMOS stages are 54 channel setups).

Add 118 objects to the bed.


Thanks FM. I am going to check out an ATMOS presentation next time I make it out to the movies at the theater recommended to me above.

JVC 3D: Been there, done that, bought a DLP
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Old 01-10-2014, 03:38 PM
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FilmMixer,

Do you ever think of me when your layin it down?
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Old 01-10-2014, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

FilmMixer,

Do you ever think of me when your layin it down?

I would sneak in stuff if that were my job. Then I would probably get fired .... wow that fantasy didn't last long.
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Old 01-10-2014, 04:30 PM
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Boy did I start a big fire or what!

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Old 01-10-2014, 04:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Do you ever think of me when your layin it down?

Eeeyew.
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Old 01-10-2014, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

FilmMixer,

Do you ever think of me when your layin it down?

The pipe? I hope not!😜
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Old 01-10-2014, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by popalock View Post

FilmMixer,

Do you ever think of me when your layin it down?

W.T.H ??? That sentence must have not been worded correctly ??confused.gif

MY 7.4 SET UP. Not Perfect But Let's Just Say I'm Happy !!
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Old 01-10-2014, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by kemiza View Post

Boy did I start a big fire or what!

It's all good , but more like an inferno !!!!biggrin.gif

MY 7.4 SET UP. Not Perfect But Let's Just Say I'm Happy !!
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Old 01-10-2014, 06:42 PM
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Lol Lol lol Popalock awful vulnerable with that post of yours.
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Old 01-10-2014, 06:52 PM
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Old 01-10-2014, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

FilmMixer,

Do you ever think of me when your layin it down?

Umm…. Interesting. I know this can't mean what it sounds like it means. 

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Old 01-10-2014, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

FilmMixer,

Do you ever think of me when your layin it down?


I'm not sure what's going on in this thread but I'm going to just slowly back out of here. No one move!

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Old 01-10-2014, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

FilmMixer,

Do you ever think of me when your layin it down?


Maybe he meant that as a PM........ ;) 

 

Messin' with ya pop. :D

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Old 01-10-2014, 07:51 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime316 View Post


I'm not sure what's going on in this thread but I'm going to just slowly back out of here. No one move!

LOL

...tongue.gif

Still chuckling.

...tongue.gif
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Old 01-10-2014, 07:56 PM
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I'm not sure what's going on in this thread but I'm going to just slowly back out of here. No one move!

LOL. That's funny.

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Old 01-10-2014, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

FilmMixer,

Do you ever think of me when your layin it down?
Could this be our first official Bass thread bromance? lol
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Old 01-10-2014, 09:45 PM
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Uh oh. This just went naval.
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Old 01-10-2014, 09:56 PM
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Laying down a track?

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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Old 01-10-2014, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

Dave...

You've always taken the position that us mixers, the creators of said data on the disc, are all in the way of getting you what think you deserve.

You constantly act like our entire industry is a bunch of incompetents, who don't know how to build rooms, don't understand acoustics, etc... and are constantly getting in our own way.

In the end, without us, and our subjective input, our "flawed" hearing, our interaction with directors and our talent, there would be no reason to even have these threads.

Of course you're entitled to your opinion, but IMO, you've so far off base I've nothing to add.

Marc,

You have to remember that you are on a thread where some folks believe that adding more ULF makes you a more "competent" mixer.confused.gif

Odd eh lol

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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Old 01-11-2014, 05:36 AM
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What contributes to the mid bass punch? Subwoofer of speaker?
Example:
12" subwoofer + speaker with 12" drivers. XO at 80Hz.
vs
15" subwoofer + speaker with 6" drivers. XO at 100Hz.
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Old 01-11-2014, 05:58 AM
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Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post

Marc,

You have to remember that you are on a thread where some folks believe that adding more ULF makes you a more "competent" mixer.confused.gif

Odd eh lol

lol, odd indeed...


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Randy Thom started his career in radio and music recording before making the transition to film in 1975, when he was hired on Apocalypse Now (1979) as a sound effects recordist. Since then, Thom has worked in a wide variety of creative capacities within the sound department in over seventy five films. For example, in addition to being the music mixer on Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi (1983), Thom was also the production sound mixer for all the footage shot in the US. Since 1983, Thom has been on staff as a sound designer and mixer at Lucasfilm's Skywalker Sound facility. He is part of a small group of sound designers that are following in Walter Murch and Ben Burtt's footsteps in the continuing work of turning motion picture sound into an art form and not simply a series of technical processes. His work on a film often begins before the film has started shooting, and becomes an integral part of the storytelling and emotional impact of the film. Randy Thom has been part of Robert Zemeckis' core creative team ever since Forrest Gump (1994). Through his career Thom has worked with such top Hollywood talents as Walter Murch, Francis Ford Coppola, George Lucas, Steven Spielberg, Brad Bird, Tim Burton, Chris Columbus, Mel Brooks and the Farrelly Brothers. Thom has received two Academy Awards for sound, The Right Stuff (1983), and Incredibles, The (2004)_. He has fourteen Oscar nominations.
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Old 01-11-2014, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post

Laying down a track?

uh huh!

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Old 01-11-2014, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

FilmMixer,

Do you ever think of me when your layin it down?

FM has said he personally didn't add a highpass on Riddick, so if the sound designers added some ULF to some effects, he didn't take it out. He may not know it is there during the process due to monitoring capabilities, though.

Some sound designers have to be aware of the ULF that is there, though, and FM has alluded to that in the past.

I am all for full bandwidth, highly dynamic soundtracks, especially when they add so much to a great film.

JSS
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Old 01-11-2014, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by bossobass View Post

lol, odd indeed...



HTTYD..........one of my most favourite movies and soundtrack.

ULF and above bass is awesome in it...but the soundfield is just PHENOMENAL!.....It is how every mixer should be making a movie!. It's the whole package really!.
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Old 01-11-2014, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

Bossobass....Congratulations, what you essentially just described is the THX standard / philosophy. I'm with FilmMixer on this one - Even without THX certification, the mixers are trying to achieve a reference standard of how the film should sound to achieve THE DIRECTOR'S vision, plain and simple. Video imaging is manipulated all the time to achieve the director's vision, so why not audio? Do you complain about how "green" The Matrix movie looks? How much shadow and gloom Peter Jackson added to scenes in the Lord of the Rings movies? If you do, you're not getting the point.

To Nube's point, there are certainly differences in talent and experience doing anything in life, just not mixing films. But in the end, the final product is what the customer (i.e. the director, movie studio, producers, etc.) want out of their final product.

As long as you have the hardware to see it as it was encoded on the disc, the picture manipulation is what it is subjective and not relevant to the point brought up by FM., that every audiophile should strive to hear what he heard on his sound stage.

Again, how does one know what the mixers heard? I said the answer to that Q is to have a wide BW, flat response with headroom above reference level. Do you have an alternative solution?



JapanDave's system does not have a flat FR, but seems to have the rest of that covered.

Noynyt's system does not have a flat FR, but seems to have the rest of that covered.

Popalock's system does not have a flat FR, but seems to have the rest of that covered.

MKT's system does not have a flat FR, but seems to have the rest of that covered.


Who made up the requirement that a flat FR is the desired FR target anyhow?
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