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post #14401 of 17437 Old 02-16-2014, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

LOL!

I'm not going get into an argument.

LOL!

If someone has superior PQ from the gate, Darbee processing isn't needed. All that's happening is additional sharpening is being applied to the image. Think Photoshop and sharpening/processing images. If it helps, I've been aware of OPPO and the benefit and drawback of image sharpening for many years. At one time, OPPO was "King Of The Hill" and now there's competition in the form of a Denon universal blu-ray player. As to the price, I can't say online what the price was as it was part of a package deal.

(just saying, the deal has come and the deal has gone and I was one of the lucky ones)

...biggrin.gif

I can also say, since the arrival of the blu-ray player we have, the OPPO is no longer turning my head like it use to. Once one has what we have, what we don't have, doesn't interest us and that's telling as to what we think and is a valid consideration. A happy camper is a happy camper and happy as a clam is happy as a clam.

-
That "deal" can still be had in amazon FYI for those interested. The smart move would be to buy the avr and sell the BR player (to buy a much cheaper one and get a bunch of your money back. Making the avr a steal)

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post #14402 of 17437 Old 02-16-2014, 09:49 AM
 
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If you don't mind paying a whole lot more. tongue.gif
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post #14403 of 17437 Old 02-16-2014, 09:49 AM
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Oh man, all this talk about expensive bluray players. I have been there and now I have the cheapest possible and they are excellent. I went from a Meridian 861 and Sim audio amp and now have a Sony receiver! Using a PS3 for blurays. Focus on the speakers, subs and most important room!
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post #14404 of 17437 Old 02-16-2014, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Toe View Post


No. Oppo players are popular due to features for the price, build quality, bang for the buck and absolutely superior customer support and update potential (similar to something like Carada in the screen world or SVS in the sub world, at least when SVS first hit........not sure about now). You can basically talk and suggest possible additions to some of the Oppo folks right here on AVS in the dedicated Oppo threads. They really are the Swiss Army Knives of blu ray players. Denon players are excellent as well (I have owned a few), but they are a bit pricey historically speaking for what you get and in general, Oppo players offer much better bang/buck (and no, you wont get better PQ with your Denon).

Does your Denon have onboard Darbee processing out of curiosity? That is a $320 feature right there if purchased separately (like I had to do when they first came out) that pays for over half of a $600 Oppo 103D.
Oppo players as far as PQ are essentially no different than any others if compared in their "native", non-modified picture state. Where I do find a difference is in their video adjustments........most notably their sharpness adjustment. It's one of the few video processors I've ever seen that adds little to no artifacts when you add a little sharpness. The other thing that has made them a standout is their offering an audiophile audio section (83SE, 95, 105) that rivals some of the better dacs out there. Add to that a customer service department that is tops in the market and the fact that these players are built like brick s**t houses and it becomes understandable why they have such a niche in the market. In fact, the only other company whose product I use that has as awesome a customer service dept is Parasound. I've received e-mail responses to questions I've had from both at ridiculous times of the day. In fact, Richard Schram, the owner of Parasound has e-mailed me back at 11:00 at night and on holidays like Christmas. Oppo has been similar in their awesome response time.
"You get what you pay for" sometimes, but not always. It depends on who you're dealing with.
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Focus on the speakers, subs and most important room!

Done, done and done. biggrin.gif

LOL!

Everything's an argument. I'm finally getting this point.

LOL!
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post #14406 of 17437 Old 02-16-2014, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Done, done and done. biggrin.gif

LOL!

Everything's an argument. I'm finally getting this point.

LOL!
ar·gu·ment (är′gyə-mənt)
n.
1.
a. A discussion in which disagreement is expressed; a debate.
b. A quarrel; a dispute.
c. Archaic A reason or matter for dispute or contention: "sheath'd their swords for lack of argument" (Shakespeare).
2.
a. A course of reasoning aimed at demonstrating truth or falsehood: presented a careful argument for extraterrestrial life.
b. A fact or statement put forth as proof or evidence; a reason: The current low mortgage rates are an argument for buying a house now.
c. A set of statements in which one follows logically as a conclusion from the others.
3.
a. A summary or short statement of the plot or subject of a literary work.
b. A topic; a subject: "You and love are still my argument" (Shakespeare).
4. Logic The minor premise in a syllogism.
5. Mathematics
a. An independent variable of a function.
b. The angle of a complex number measured from the positive horizontal axis.
6. Computer Science A value used to evaluate a procedure or subroutine.
7. Linguistics In generative grammar, any of various positions occupied by a noun phrase in a sentence.

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post #14407 of 17437 Old 02-16-2014, 09:59 AM
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I still can't believe how good this Sony is for my system. Waiting for another mic so I can run spec lab graphs without as much low end rolloff. Until then enjoying the movies at reference!
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post #14408 of 17437 Old 02-16-2014, 09:59 AM
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You THINK it's an argument cause you refused to admit your wrong

I get it. You are emotionally blinded by you love of your toys. I've been there. But te facts are your 1000$ br player is no better than my 85$ Sony 5100. Get over it and stop calling it an argument. Just don't say it's a must have upgrade. Actually it blatantly is so far from it.

If you love your BR player that's awesome and happy for you. But i would rather put that other 900$ I didn't spend on it towards room treatments or a third sub smile.gif I will get much much more return on my investment.

Also the deal in amazon is at a high point and is only 200$ more than the "best" price
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post #14409 of 17437 Old 02-16-2014, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Focus on the speakers, subs and most important room!

Done, done and done. biggrin.gif

LOL!

Everything's an argument. I'm finally getting this point.

LOL!



Click on link below. You guys need to go to the argument clinic!


Argument Clinic run by a noted authority on the acclaimed AVS argument methodology



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post #14410 of 17437 Old 02-16-2014, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I still can't believe how good this Sony is for my system. Waiting for another mic so I can run spec lab graphs without as much low end rolloff. Until then enjoying the movies at reference!


What have you come up with for a microphone? I don't have one that is good for the entire audio band.
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post #14411 of 17437 Old 02-16-2014, 10:11 AM
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Just for the low end as I am getting another one built for me. I have a lilmike mic but it is missing some pieces. I have the behringer for the higher frequencies.
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post #14412 of 17437 Old 02-16-2014, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Oh man, all this talk about expensive bluray players. I have been there and now I have the cheapest possible and they are excellent. I went from a Meridian 861 and Sim audio amp and now have a Sony receiver! Using a PS3 for blurays. Focus on the speakers, subs and most important room!


It all depends on what you need. I would have no problem using my PS3 as a blu ray player if it did everything I needed which it doesn't. I needed bitstream support for both 2d and 3d, DVD-A, SACD, dual HDMI among other things that my PS3 would not do all of. So there is a reason to go with a more expensive player depending on what you want. The PS3 cant do it all. I generally agree with you otherwise though, although I am a fan of my separates vs the receivers I have owned and think it is worth it going that route.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

LOL!

I'm not going get into an argument.

LOL!

If someone has superior PQ from the gate, Darbee processing isn't needed. All that's happening, additional sharpening is being applied to the image. Think Photoshop and sharpening/processing images. If it helps, I've been aware of OPPO and the benefit and drawback of image sharpening for many years. At one time, OPPO was "King Of The Hill" and now there's competition in the form of a Denon universal blu-ray player. As to the price, I can't say online what the price was as it was part of a package deal.

(just saying, the deal has come and the deal has gone and I was one of the lucky ones)

...biggrin.gif

I can also say, since the arrival of the blu-ray player we have, the OPPO is no longer turning my head like it use to. Once one has what we have, what we don't have, doesn't interest us and that's telling as to what we think and is a valid consideration. A happy camper is a happy camper and happy as a clam is happy as a clam.

-

I'm not arguing, I was simply asking a question. I don't agree with your assessment of the Darbee at all and neither do many other well respected video enthusiasts on this forum and elsewhere. I wont go much further though as this will turn into pages of off topic rant and you do enough of that already. Darbee processing has proven beneficial from those who have spent time with it on everything from a cheap display all the way up to high end like a Sony 1100 4k projector and everything in between. It is not a simple "sharpening" device and does not bring along the common artifacts (ringing, halos, etc.......) that go with something like that assuming you don't overuse it. You need to do more homework. How much time have you spent with a Darbee? Most video enthusiasts from my experience are very supportive of what the Darbee brings to the table, and in light of that, and getting back to my original point, that brings incredible value alone to a Oppo 103D not to mention everything else you get for the $$$ with that player.

I think it's great you like your blu ray player and other gear, but don't make it out to be more than it is. You are not getting any better PQ with your Denon vs what I would get with my Oppo or any other player I own for that matter.
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post #14413 of 17437 Old 02-16-2014, 10:33 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Toe View Post

I think it's great you like your blu ray player and other gear, but don't make it out to be more than it is. You are not getting any better PQ with your Denon vs what I would get with my Oppo or any other player I own for that matter.

Oh no. If I respond, I'm arguing.

...tongue.gif
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Just for the low end as I am getting another one built for me. I have a lilmike mic but it is missing some pieces. I have the behringer for the higher frequencies.


You may not believe this, but the microphone & sound card circuit built into my Windows 8 laptop outperforms my RS spl meter by far. Very flat down to at least 10 Hz. The only problem is that it rolls off at the high end around 4 kHz. The laptop microphone also picks up the internal fan noise at about 90 Hz, but I can barely notice that "fan noise" when I do a SL waterfall. You can not see the fan noise on a SL PvA spectrogram.

I still need to download the latest REW. I forgot my pass word so I have to reenlist in order to get the download.

I have the most recent SL program (Jan 2014) and the latest TrueRTA program installed on my Windows XP PC as well as on the Windows 8 laptop.
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Oh no. If I respond, I'm arguing.

...tongue.gif

You guys have no idea how deep into the swamp you guys have walked.

biggrin.gif

-
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post #14416 of 17437 Old 02-16-2014, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post

Oppo players as far as PQ are essentially no different than any others if compared in their "native", non-modified picture state. Where I do find a difference is in their video adjustments........most notably their sharpness adjustment. It's one of the few video processors I've ever seen that adds little to no artifacts when you add a little sharpness. The other thing that has made them a standout is their offering an audiophile audio section (83SE, 95, 105) that rivals some of the better dacs out there. Add to that a customer service department that is tops in the market and the fact that these players are built like brick s**t houses and it becomes understandable why they have such a niche in the market. In fact, the only other company whose product I use that has as awesome a customer service dept is Parasound. I've received e-mail responses to questions I've had from both at ridiculous times of the day. In fact, Richard Schram, the owner of Parasound has e-mailed me back at 11:00 at night and on holidays like Christmas. Oppo has been similar in their awesome response time.
"You get what you pay for" sometimes, but not always. It depends on who you're dealing with.


I have read that quite a few times about the sharpening in the Oppos, but I have yet to try it (I will at some point).

The best customer service I have received has been from companies like SVS, Carada, Lumagen and I would put Oppo in that elite group as well.

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post #14417 of 17437 Old 02-16-2014, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Oh man, all this talk about expensive bluray players. I have been there and now I have the cheapest possible and they are excellent. I went from a Meridian 861 and Sim audio amp and now have a Sony receiver! Using a PS3 for blurays. Focus on the speakers, subs and most important room!

Big +1
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post #14419 of 17437 Old 02-16-2014, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Oh man, all this talk about expensive bluray players. I have been there and now I have the cheapest possible and they are excellent. I went from a Meridian 861 and Sim audio amp and now have a Sony receiver! Using a PS3 for blurays. Focus on the speakers, subs and most important room!

True indeed but once you've done that! now what? If you're happy with the sony and PS3 then great ! For me ( having done the receiver thing and grew into separates from it) In a dedicated theater that may get the job done! but in my dual purpose room it all matters and even if I did a dedicated theater I suppose it would all matter. Getting the Marantz 8801 and Oppo 105 allows not only allows me SOTA playback of any source known to man but does so in an extremely wonderful way, and in the world of uber priced gear the price to play hear is a not bad! As for there sonics the later to which you referred ( room , speakers etc..) too are a means, atleast for me! to hear the difference between dac's and cables and other little things one can do to bring out that next level information on the disc or what ever source is playing back. For some its all equal and anything will do the job, but it comes down to how well ? if you can't tell the difference , you gotta be loving life and saving some coin biggrin.gif

I choose both options room ,speakers, subs and all the rest that ties it all in together! I want that last drop of a higher fidelity smile.gif
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post #14421 of 17437 Old 02-16-2014, 11:27 AM
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You guys have no idea how deep into the swamp you guys have walked.

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post #14423 of 17437 Old 02-16-2014, 11:35 AM
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True indeed but once you've done that! now what? If you're happy with the sony and PS3 then great ! For me ( having done the receiver thing and grew into separates from it) In a dedicated theater that may get the job done! but in my dual purpose room it all matters and even if I did a dedicated theater I suppose it would all matter. Getting the Marantz 8801 and Oppo 105 allows not only allows me SOTA playback of any source known to man but does so in an extremely wonderful way, and in the world of uber priced gear the price to play hear is a not bad! As for there sonics the later to which you referred ( room , speakers etc..) too are a means, atleast for me! to hear the difference between dac's and cables and other little things one can do to bring out that next level information on the disc or what ever source is playing back. For some its all equal and anything will do the job, but it comes down to how well ? if you can't tell the difference , you gotta be loving life and saving some coin biggrin.gif

I choose both options room ,speakers, subs and all the rest that ties it all in together! I want that last drop of a higher fidelity smile.gif

That last drop of fidelity is BS, been there done that. The Sony works great because of my speakers, if I had 4 ohm low sensitivity speakers the Sony would blow up. I basically watch movies so all the other stuff is not warranted for me and if some features are needed then so be it but saying greater fidelity and such is pushing it, this is where the blind tests are beautiful. I have been chasing audio nirvana for movies for years and ended up selling all my expensive high fidelity stuff once I went blind testing. Sighted they kicked arse for sure wink.gif
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Are you sure the bag is big enough?

LOL!
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That last drop of fidelity is BS, been there done that. The Sony works great because of my speakers, if I had 4 ohm low sensitivity speakers the Sony would blow up. I basically watch movies so all the other stuff is not warranted for me and if some features are needed then so be it but saying greater fidelity and such is pushing it, this is where the blind tests are beautiful. I have been chasing audio nirvana for movies for years and ended up selling all my expensive high fidelity stuff once I went blind testing. Sighted they kicked arse for sure wink.gif

The Oppo and Marantz 8801 have only stoked the fire for me in the pursuit of "Fidelity " calling it anything else and needing and blindfold and a test group to convince you otherwise to tell you what you hear After this long( I'm sure you've learned how to listen and should be a bit of a Master wink.gif ), is another topic unto itself! biggrin.gif Believe it or not I do see your point and the Oppo and Marantz were for system downsizing in terms of price and rack space as they replaced more expensive gear! My sonic Nirvana is a top to bottom approach and I strive for neutrality and tonal accuracy with nothing being a highlighted look at me attribute, this is a preference of course and takes time to develope and a bit of intrinsic and learned skill and after 30yrs I've gotten pretty good at it ! Not bragging of course smile.gif
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post #14426 of 17437 Old 02-16-2014, 12:23 PM
 
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Sighted they kicked arse for sure wink.gif

Ahhhhhh, a slight conflict of terms. You have to be sighted to see the video being produced on the screen of choice.

...confused.gif

As to the 8801, my understanding, the 4520CI is a 9.2 channel 8801 with 4ohm capable amplifier.
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post #14427 of 17437 Old 02-16-2014, 12:34 PM
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Ahhhhhh, a slight conflict of terms. You have to be sighted to see the video being produced on the screen of choice.

...confused.gif

As to the 8801, my understanding, the 4520CI is a 9.2 channel 8801 with 4ohm capable amplifier.

They share platforms from what I understand but it ends there! The addition of different components and final tuning is up to Denon's team and also for the Marantz team! wink.gif
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post #14428 of 17437 Old 02-16-2014, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by GPBURNS View Post

Berlin Calling
German DTS-MA
Interesting German indie film revolving
around the techno /electronic scene
LFE mostly limited to the techno score
but really well recorded
Probably no more than a 3 star bass flick but liked this one


nice GP...


this thread is not a total lost cause...

don't get me wrong, lots of fascinating reading here...but we keep getting further and further away from the original premise of this thread

...tho the one-upmanship exhibited lately has been second to none
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post #14429 of 17437 Old 02-16-2014, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by lefthandluke View Post

nice GP...


this thread is not a total lost cause...

don't get me wrong, lots of fascinating reading here...but we keep getting further and further away from the original premise of this thread

...tho the one-upmanship exhibited lately has been second to none

+1. Well said LefthandLuke.

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post #14430 of 17437 Old 02-16-2014, 12:43 PM
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