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post #17131 of 20971 Old 06-08-2014, 10:07 PM
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Gonna watch the whole LS movie tomm but I did demo the helicopter scene and it is pretty cool. Very realistic for sure. I can see yours MK how it made such a huge impression. I was actually thinking about all this after the Pompei talk and mixed feelings. That is our opinions will differ from not only what subs we have but also the volume we listen at. For example I listen at -15 in my room and that is as loud as you can stand it. Okay maybe -12. As we know soundtracks fluctuate so thats my range in my room. Reference would be WAAAYY to loud in my small room. But I do run my bass hot and a rising house curve. I Have +5db low shelf from mini dsp, PGM 2 which gives 3db boost below 45ish HZ, and a 4db sub trim bump post Audyssey. So for those who listen at reference and run hot with VERY capable sealed setups they will be impressive over some one has ported setups or like me who have a decent sealed setup but listen below reference. Although my bass may not be too far behind reference levels. But not there I know smile.gif

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post #17132 of 20971 Old 06-08-2014, 11:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Gonna watch the whole LS movie tomm but I did demo the helicopter scene and it is pretty cool. Very realistic for sure. I can see yours MK how it made such a huge impression. I was actually thinking about all this after the Pompei talk and mixed feelings. That is our opinions will differ from not only what subs we have but also the volume we listen at. For example I listen at -15 in my room and that is as loud as you can stand it. Okay maybe -12. As we know soundtracks fluctuate so thats my range in my room. Reference would be WAAAYY to loud in my small room. But I do run my bass hot and a rising house curve. I Have +5db low shelf from mini dsp, PGM 2 which gives 3db boost below 45ish HZ, and a 4db sub trim bump post Audyssey. So for those who listen at reference and run hot with VERY capable sealed setups they will be impressive over some one has ported setups or like me who have a decent sealed setup but listen below reference. Although my bass may not be too far behind reference levels. But not there I know smile.gif

Wow Jp that's some serious bass head dedication to pop in what could be a good flick just to see if your rig will do what someone else posted on instead of waiting one day to take it all in biggrin.gif

May have to self spoiler alert yourself biggrin.gif

JK I'm still waiting to pick this one up as I cancelled my preorder last week but noticing a few commercials over the last few days of upcoming releases like Jack Ryan for 12.99 ? what gives are we finally looking at lower Bluray prices?
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post #17133 of 20971 Old 06-09-2014, 01:29 AM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

You have limiters to protect, no? Meaning if the bass gets too crazy your amp will just limit? I did not realize I was sharing my projector with my bass amp so I will try the amp alone.

MK Theater.. Watched LS today. I too popped the breakers on the heli scene. Twice.. First was 3 of my S2's. Did the scene again and popped all 4 S2 each on a dedicated 20 amp line. Then I just came in this thread and read your post. Wow, that scene must be in the single digits.
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post #17134 of 20971 Old 06-09-2014, 01:34 AM
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Have any of you watched the excursion on your drivers on the heli scene of LS? Last time I seen my drivers dance like that was f@
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post #17135 of 20971 Old 06-09-2014, 01:49 AM
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Not my video but wow I need to get this disk.
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post #17136 of 20971 Old 06-09-2014, 02:29 AM
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Watched Robocop last night… His footsteps, and his gun, were awesome LFE.

Also, The scene in the lobby of the building, with the ED-209 units was also pretty awesome.

Yes indeed !!!
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post #17137 of 20971 Old 06-09-2014, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

upcoming releases like Jack Ryan for 12.99 ? what gives are we finally looking at lower Bluray prices?
it's a very good movie IMO with good bass. The explosion toward the end had my couch shaking.
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post #17138 of 20971 Old 06-09-2014, 06:30 AM
 
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Originally Posted by pajama sam View Post

I was just wondering if the bassheads in this thread make any use of Audysseys dynamic compression features or leave it off. I would think that the concept of dynamic compression would be antithetical to what people on this thread are looking for, but I'd appreciate a confirmation (or refutation). Thanks!

You shouldn't use dynamic compression unless you're listening quietly as it definitely lowers peaks. I believe dynamic EQ actually raises the bass level a bit so it could be beneficial. Watch with it on and then off at the same volume level and compare.
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post #17139 of 20971 Old 06-09-2014, 06:34 AM
 
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Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Gonna watch the whole LS movie tomm but I did demo the helicopter scene and it is pretty cool. Very realistic for sure. I can see yours MK how it made such a huge impression. I was actually thinking about all this after the Pompei talk and mixed feelings. That is our opinions will differ from not only what subs we have but also the volume we listen at. For example I listen at -15 in my room and that is as loud as you can stand it. Okay maybe -12. As we know soundtracks fluctuate so thats my range in my room. Reference would be WAAAYY to loud in my small room. But I do run my bass hot and a rising house curve. I Have +5db low shelf from mini dsp, PGM 2 which gives 3db boost below 45ish HZ, and a 4db sub trim bump post Audyssey. So for those who listen at reference and run hot with VERY capable sealed setups they will be impressive over some one has ported setups or like me who have a decent sealed setup but listen below reference. Although my bass may not be too far behind reference levels. But not there I know smile.gif

You are misunderstanding volume levels. If you have it calibrated, -15 in your room is 100% identical (volume wise) to any other room in the world if they are also listening at -15. All receiver's calibrate to the same level at a certain listening position. Reference level (0 dB) is identical volume for you and for MK, room has no impact (unless you have not set your receiver up). I think some people find -15 to -10 getting too loud if your speakers are low end/commercial / dome tweeters. You need high efficiency pro theater speakers to really listen loud without distortion.
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post #17140 of 20971 Old 06-09-2014, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

You have limiters to protect, no? Meaning if the bass gets too crazy your amp will just limit? I did not realize I was sharing my projector with my bass amp so I will try the amp alone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Huh?
Your subms have limiters in the amp to protect the driver from over excursion. Playing that scene at reference without audible distortion doesn't mean your are appropriately replicating the ulf on the disc because the limiters might be kicking in.
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post #17141 of 20971 Old 06-09-2014, 07:43 AM
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Yes, like the Sub1, look what happens when it gets turned up, it loses all the low end from compression but still playing the mid bass loud. The answer is to add more so the low end can keep up.

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post #17142 of 20971 Old 06-09-2014, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWagstaff View Post

You shouldn't use dynamic compression unless you're listening quietly as it definitely lowers peaks. I believe dynamic EQ actually raises the bass level a bit so it could be beneficial. Watch with it on and then off at the same volume level and compare.
+1

Audyssey's 'Dynamic EQ' boosts the lower end up at low volumes, so that you can hear the bass while still having the top end quite quiet - it's something to do with equal loudnes curves IIRC but I can't get more technical than that tongue.gif lol

As you turn the volume up, Dynamic EQ boost becomes less and less, until you are at Reference, at which point it is not boosting at all.

(In the AVR you should be able to set the Dynamic EQ level to either 0/Reference, -5, -10, or maybe -15, which is what the Dynamic EQ will use as your 'top volume' and therefore boost up to that point. This means you can use Dynamic EQ but if 0/Reference gives you a bit too much, you can go back into the menus and try a lower setting.)


'Dynamic Volume' is just another way of naming 'dynamic range compression' - the idea being that you can watch a movie late at night with the kids in bed, and rather than having it with full range dynamics like normal, so you have it at, say, -10dB so you can hear someone talking normally but then the bass kicks in and rattles all the doors in the house and wakes the kids up lol, it brings the bass down and the vocals up so they are all the same loudness, so you have a small dynamic range. This means that you can set the volume and not have to turn it down everytime an action sequence comes on!


That's the theory, anyway smile.gif
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post #17143 of 20971 Old 06-09-2014, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by JWagstaff View Post

You shouldn't use dynamic compression unless you're listening quietly as it definitely lowers peaks. I believe dynamic EQ actually raises the bass level a bit so it could be beneficial. Watch with it on and then off at the same volume level and compare.
Ya I had experimented with it before at low volume levels and got tired of it quick. Just sounds unbalanced with too much bass and too hot of surrounds. This was a while back before I upgraded speakers

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post #17144 of 20971 Old 06-09-2014, 10:28 AM
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Re. DEQ - and FWIW - these graphs I took recently highlight it pretty well:

1. At reference, the black default curve is closely overlaid by the yellow DEQ curve (subs not hot). The green curve is the subs 6dB hot (no DEQ).

http://coolcrab.com/cal/images/05.jpg (full range)
http://coolcrab.com/cal/images/05a.jpg (zoom in on the subs)

2. At -10dB, the yellow DEQ curve almost overlays the green "subs hot" curve. The difference between DEQ and just running the subs hot is that DEQ boosts levels past the x-cover, tapering them off as the frequencies approach ~200-300Hz.

http://coolcrab.com/cal/images/06.jpg (full range)
http://coolcrab.com/cal/images/06a.jpg (zoom in on the subs)
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post #17145 of 20971 Old 06-09-2014, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

Re. DEQ (and FWIW), these graphs I took recently highlight it very well:

1. At reference, the black default curve is overlaid by the yellow DEQ curve (subs not hot) essentially exactly. The green curve is the subs 6dB hot (no DEQ).

http://coolcrab.com/cal/images/05.jpg

2. At -10dB, the yellow DEQ curve moves closer to the green "subs hot" curve. The difference between DEQ and just running the subs hot is that DEQ boosts levels past the x-cover, tapering them off as the frequencies approach ~200-300Hz.

http://coolcrab.com/cal/images/06.jpg
eljay, they are awesome Dynamic EQ graphs, thank you very much smile.gif

I am going to link to them over on the UK AVForum (crediting you, of course) if that's ok, as they are a great illustration of how it works! smile.gif
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post #17146 of 20971 Old 06-09-2014, 11:37 AM
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Thanks. I was just supplementing the excellent explanation you provided in your earlier post. cool.gif
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post #17147 of 20971 Old 06-09-2014, 11:43 AM
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Very kind of you to say so! smile.gif
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post #17148 of 20971 Old 06-09-2014, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by JWagstaff View Post

You are misunderstanding volume levels. If you have it calibrated, -15 in your room is 100% identical (volume wise) to any other room in the world if they are also listening at -15. All receiver's calibrate to the same level at a certain listening position. Reference level (0 dB) is identical volume for you and for MK, room has no impact (unless you have not set your receiver up). I think some people find -15 to -10 getting too loud if your speakers are low end/commercial / dome tweeters. You need high efficiency pro theater speakers to really listen loud without distortion.

Yes I understand all speakers and subs are calibrated to same levels. I have JTR Triple 8's up front. I know they are not flagship JTR's but They can play pretty loud without distortion. I don't claim to understand the concept here but it I turned up my 4520's volume to 0db nobody could stand the volume. I know that whether you do manual calibration or use something like Audyssey it will set the speakers to the same levels whether sitting 8ft or 14ft. Perhaps because I use Audyssey and DEQ. I notice that changes things a bit. I have also been in two professionally calibrated rooms last year and both were at -5db and are perceived as the same loudness of my room. anyone care to explain this? I am sure if I visited MK's theater (pun intended) that it would have a very similar perceived loudness

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post #17149 of 20971 Old 06-09-2014, 01:38 PM
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I played the 888LP's to reference in room and it was loud and clear. I measured the THD to be 1% and under. There are only a handful of movies that have some scenes that might be considered too loud at reference. EQ and room treatments makes everything smoother and no surprise peaks at unwanted frequencies.

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post #17150 of 20971 Old 06-09-2014, 02:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Yes I understand all speakers and subs are calibrated to same levels. I have JTR Triple 8's up front. I know they are not flagship JTR's but They can play pretty loud without distortion. I don't claim to understand the concept here but it I turned up my 4520's volume to 0db nobody could stand the volume. I know that whether you do manual calibration or use something like Audyssey it will set the speakers to the same levels whether sitting 8ft or 14ft. Perhaps because I use Audyssey and DEQ. I notice that changes things a bit. I have also been in two professionally calibrated rooms last year and both were at -5db and are perceived as the same loudness of my room. anyone care to explain this? I am sure if I visited MK's theater (pun intended) that it would have a very similar perceived loudness

Well I think for most people 0 dB is too loud haha. It's not that bad if you are playing it with no distortion though.
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post #17151 of 20971 Old 06-09-2014, 02:11 PM
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I still think different AVR's and or processor's calibrate differently or their auto EQ sucks and you have peaks for to loud. I have had many different ones and many AVR's with their auto calibrate and EQ's always seem to have their MV 0 dBs too loud. My SC-37 was close and my Sony STR-2800ES was superb at MV 0. Now anytime I manualy tweak the levels whether with DCX or the NanoAVR Master volume 0 dBs is perfect. It is meant to be loud and dynamic but not overbearing unless one is sensitive. This assumes a flat response or HF rolloff though and many auto EQ's do not reproduce a flat response. I am using only the NanoAvr right now and with it's set levels and can watch any movie at reference, some louder than otherwise of course. The room matters too and lots of echo or reflections can sound harsh at loud volumes.
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post #17152 of 20971 Old 06-09-2014, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I am sorry guys but you have no idea what you are missing! Good and the bad. I just watched Lone Survivor and I have never felt a more realistic helicopter ever. It was in my room! I have 8 20 amp breakers for my high sensitive system and it popped two of them. My screen was literally waving in the wind. Are you guys running reference with a LT boost? I am not kidding, this is my new bass demo! I will demo it just to show the breakers pop! Only movie to do so.
I feel like your system is always changing. What do you have for subs these days?
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post #17153 of 20971 Old 06-09-2014, 02:53 PM
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I have an 8x18 IB system within my baffle wall, same as my pic.

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post #17154 of 20971 Old 06-09-2014, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I have an 8x18 IB system within my baffle wall, same as my pic.

 

out of curiosity...

 

with so much power behind the screen, does the screen move during high spl scenes?

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post #17155 of 20971 Old 06-09-2014, 07:09 PM
 
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out of curiosity...

with so much power behind the screen, does the screen move during high spl scenes?

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1333462/the-new-master-list-of-bass-in-movies-with-frequency-charts/17100#post_24807976
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post #17156 of 20971 Old 06-09-2014, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I still think different AVR's and or processor's calibrate differently or their auto EQ sucks and you have peaks for to loud. I have had many different ones and many AVR's with their auto calibrate and EQ's always seem to have their MV 0 dBs too loud. My SC-37 was close and my Sony STR-2800ES was superb at MV 0. Now anytime I manualy tweak the levels whether with DCX or the NanoAVR Master volume 0 dBs is perfect. It is meant to be loud and dynamic but not overbearing unless one is sensitive. This assumes a flat response or HF rolloff though and many auto EQ's do not reproduce a flat response. I am using only the NanoAvr right now and with it's set levels and can watch any movie at reference, some louder than otherwise of course. The room matters too and lots of echo or reflections can sound harsh at loud volumes.

Interesting. The nano ave does look pretty cool smile.gif I know DEQ does something to the volume as well. I had Audyssey turned of for a bit awhile ago and made it into the single digits watching movies. But back to -15ish or higher with an Audyssey cal again. anyway not sure how it all works. I just know that -15 to -10ish is as loud as anyone here could stand in my room, and that I run my bass hot lol!

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post #17157 of 20971 Old 06-09-2014, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I am sorry guys but you have no idea what you are missing! Good and the bad. I just watched Lone Survivor and I have never felt a more realistic helicopter ever. It was in my room! I have 8 20 amp breakers for my high sensitive system and it popped two of them. My screen was literally waving in the wind. Are you guys running reference with a LT boost? I am not kidding, this is my new bass demo! I will demo it just to show the breakers pop! Only movie to do so.

So I played the heli scene again today. This time I turned off the house curve. Went up to -13 on the MV. During the drop scene part, all 4 S2's breakers popped again! lol! But, this time the breakers held on longer. That is just intense. Lfe from the blades just flutters my eardrums. The thumps from the blades just shakes my insides. I was afraid I was gonna get that nauseated feeling again..
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post #17158 of 20971 Old 06-09-2014, 11:17 PM
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So I played the heli scene again today. This time I turned off the house curve. Went up to -13 on the MV. During the drop scene part, all 4 S2's breakers popped again! lol! But, this time the breakers held on longer. That is just intense. Lfe from the blades just flutters my eardrums. The thumps from the blades just shakes my insides. I was afraid I was gonna get that nauseated feeling again..

That tingle means it's working 😁
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post #17159 of 20971 Old 06-09-2014, 11:20 PM
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I ran the scene again as well and this time turned down the curve 3 dBs per octave. I had a LT boost of 13 dBs at 10 hz and that what set off the breaker. Playing it at reference with subs calibrated flat and LT boost at 10 dBs or about an octave lowering of the F3 was just fine but the screen was moving so much it blurred the image a little(shaky cam effect). You have the same displacement as I do but my room is 1500 cubes.

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post #17160 of 20971 Old 06-10-2014, 12:20 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhed View Post

So I played the heli scene again today. This time I turned off the house curve. Went up to -13 on the MV. During the drop scene part, all 4 S2's breakers popped again! lol! But, this time the breakers held on longer. That is just intense. Lfe from the blades just flutters my eardrums. The thumps from the blades just shakes my insides. I was afraid I was gonna get that nauseated feeling again..

If you are popping your breakers at -13 it might be time to replace the breakers. I heard they weaken the more they pop.
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