The New Master List of BASS in Movies with Frequency Charts - Page 600 - AVS Forum
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post #17971 of 17981 Old Today, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Homebrew101 View Post
Even if you don't wish to share the personal info that databass asks for, you can always create an alias email address and other fictitious info for a log-in without revealing anything pertinent in much less time than you've spent here discussing your concerns about databass.com.
Thank you, that is helpful.

And to my friend above -- yes, never denied there was help given all along the way -- I think I acknowledged all that with copious "thank yous" when they came along -- at least I sure hope I did, I would mean to if there were some omissions -- sorry if there were, but now we're back on talking about how we talk about what we're supposed to be talking about.

So I'll just try to give big broadcast to a major "thank you" to all in this thread that helped.
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post #17972 of 17981 Old Today, 12:27 PM
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BTW, you asked someone who is a member at both sites to take their time and do something for you which would take some time. You don't wan to do it yourself because you are afraid and when someone told you no you seemed upset. I am a member of both but I am on my phone so very hard to copy and paste graphs. I know Phantom received 4.75 stars over there which is right there with the best so I am not sure why you think it gets no love. Maybe people like other movies better with the same ratings? Again, it was rated very high which means people had to give a good execution score, meaning they liked the bass! Don't worry so much.

On another note I was watching The HobbitOS on direct TV and it had some very loud bass, I can't remember if the bluray did or not.
Thanks for your willingness to be helpful. I didn't see PHANTOM as listed in the first page of this thread, maybe it is there, maybe I missed it -- yeah, not sure why the movie was seemingly not liked that much -- I thought it was one of the better things I've seen lately (which might not amount to much with me without the track...)
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post #17973 of 17981 Old Today, 12:36 PM
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No added commentary needed on my part. I'll just let the cognitive dissonance marinate.

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And to my friend above -- yes, never denied there was help given all along the way -- I think I acknowledged all that with copious "thank yous" when they came along -- at least I sure hope I did, I would mean to if there were some omissions -- sorry if there were, but now we're back on talking about how we talk about what we're supposed to be talking about.

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Don't know if I'm remotely close, but I've come to learn AVS is not the place to ask and learn, so I'll keep looking into it....
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post #17974 of 17981 Old Today, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Emaych View Post
Thanks for your willingness to be helpful. I didn't see PHANTOM as listed in the first page of this thread, maybe it is there, maybe I missed it -- yeah, not sure why the movie was seemingly not liked that much -- I thought it was one of the better things I've seen lately (which might not amount to much with me without the track...)
From viewing the graphs posted on data-bass.com, the movie is a bass monster. 4.75 stars out of 5. The area of bass clipping is annotated with the graph.

With dual subs, stack'em in the corner and put on a jockstrap. Don't want EVERYTHING in the room jingling!
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post #17975 of 17981 Old Today, 12:56 PM
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At least this discussion gives me some more demo material as I have never seen Phantom.

Have you even though about getting some JTR speakers to go with their subs? I have never heard of Montana speakers but I have owned Mac before. Revealing speakers will let you hear clipping and it sounds like a loud sharp metal to metal collision. It makes you cringe, of course bass clipping might be different but I am not sure. I love a few bass heavy movies with clipping which is Tron, Immortals, and even one of the best rated WOTW has some. I am not afraid of clipping as long as it is not compressed to death and does not filter the low end. Two of my favorite comparisons of good with low end and then loud and filtered is TDK to TDKR and ST to STID. The latter two are louder and filtered and need to be turned down compared to their earlier brothers. I can watch TDK all day at reference but TDKR cause me to cringe many times although the beginning is awesome.
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post #17976 of 17981 Old Today, 01:00 PM
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Was the Super 8 train crash scene one of the ones that had clipping? I forget, but seem to remember it was discussed as such.
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post #17977 of 17981 Old Today, 01:14 PM
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Another loud and filtered track. Very loud movies usually have clipping but that is a guess.
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post #17978 of 17981 Old Today, 01:21 PM
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Was the Super 8 train crash scene one of the ones that had clipping? I forget, but seem to remember it was discussed as such.
There was some debate on whether it was actually clipping or if was intended to be that way, what with all the twisting, bending metal found in such a crash.

Don't recall if it was graphed, though.
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post #17979 of 17981 Old Today, 02:11 PM
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No added commentary needed on my part. I'll just let the cognitive dissonance marinate.
Yes yes yes -- there were those helping, those not. Some info came forth, and some of the questions that were at the top of my list, eventually came forth with alot of back and forth in between.

Now as to the question of whether a casual member dropping into learn something would read the last few pages and conclude "How welcoming a place is this! Man I've got to bring all my questions here!" I think you and I both know that answer.

Got to go just now. I see more helpful posts have been added, I will get back on that, and perhaps we got over the hump...
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post #17980 of 17981 Old Today, 03:20 PM
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This narcissistic derailment has gone on long enough. I suggest everyone report this user, his posts, and ignore him. I'd like to see this thread get cleaned up by Mike Lang, when he has a chance.


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post #17981 of 17981 Old Today, 03:20 PM
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Of course I have a few reactions to that. I had asked for something specific, i.e., time stamps. Then got a whole lot of "Nah gunna dooote!" (best Dana Carvey doing Herbert Walker). Fine. What I really can't get is folks investing so so much time and effort into explaining how it can't get done. If I saw something I didn't want to help on, I'd move on.

This was not a matter of (at least a good number) folks trying to figure out what would work to provide assist, it was a general refusal, some close-to name calling, and then a rush of snipers to suppress the inquiry. Really weird, don't you think? And now I'm just a dumb rock who is just going to sink sink away. Thanks so much for your graciousness, good brother. Anyway, I do know how to do all the things advised -- go elsewhere mostly...
Some of the 'unhelpful' responses as you deem them are due to the fact that certain topics come up fairly frequently, and oftentimes, have already been discussed ad-infinitum. Some members posted exactly where you could find the information you were looking for and received a "Nah gunna dooote" response from you due to your reticence to take the time to look in the provided location (sure you may not want to share your email info somewhere, which is why I have several email accounts that I use for various purposes, AND there are proxies that can be used as well).

For some reason or another, there are many people who feel that their time is more valuable than anyone else's (not saying that you are one of those), and feel that everyone else should spend their own time to spoon feed them information because they can't be bothered to spend the time to search for the information themselves. The frequency with which these types of people pop up, asking for information that has already been previously provided, while not even being willing to take the time to look for it and simply expecting other folks to take their time to find it and lay it out for them makes some folks reticent to spoon feed (as they see it) anyone. Don't take it personally if you ask for information and are directed somewhere you can find it, but choose not to head down the path you're directed to where you can find the answers you've been looking for. It is simply because many others have asked the same things, but then expected to be carried down that path as opposed to walking down it themselves.

That said, a couple of examples of audible clipping are, as mentioned, in the movie 'The Immortals' when one of the gods of Olympus dives into the ocean and causes a tsunami. Another couple of examples are in the movie Tron: Legacy when the lead actor first enters The Grid. The jets from those big flying things are clipped in the recording, but this is likely an artistic choice to produce a desired sound effect (the sounds of jets in many movies are intentionally clipped as these same sounds in real life can be distorted in our hearing). However, in Tron:Legacy, there are other examples of recorded clipping that are probably not intentional as a sound effect, and this is evident in the soundtrack's music during the air battle sequences near the end of the movie. Another example is when the big ship crashes into the ocean in the 2nd half of Star Trek:Into Darkness.

As far as timestamps go, I haven't watched these movies recently (eg. only watched 'Immortals' once, when I first acquired it on BD when it was released), so you'll have to locate these scenes yourself which is not difficult and just takes a little time. Now if someone were to respond, "Yes, but what are the exact timestamps for these scenes you've mentioned?", that would be viewed as an example of the lazy/entitled types who feel that their time is more important than anyone else's and can't be bothered to find these scenes themselves and instead, expect others to spend their time to find these scenes and the specific timestamps for them.

In a revealing system, this clipping is heard as distortion. The square waves produced by exceeding the clip limits of the recording/mastering chain tend to introduce odd-order harmonics in the audio. The perception of this is not an easy thing to explain in words. Some call it a "harsh" sound, or "crunchy" sound", or a "scratchy" sound. Some hear a combination of "muffled" primary tones coupled with the distortion.

The reason some folks hear it and others don't is a combination of equipment chain AND individual sensitivity to distortion. I for one, have had a lot of experience with Professional Sound Reinforcement (eg, concerts, pro-touring equipment, raves etc.), and could/can hear when the equipment chain is being pushed near its limits and is beginning to distort (or has been pushed past its limits and is well into the distortion range).

As other folks have mentioned, there is a difference between clipping due to the audio chain for reproduction, vs clipping inherent in the recording. An extremely capable audio reproduction system reduces the chances of hearing clipping resulting from exceeding the limits of the reproduction system (i.e. having clip lights appear on the amps in the system, or hitting the mechanical limits of the drivers). With a system capable of clean reproduction to the maximum SPLs that will ever be reached in playback, you will never hear clipping/distortion caused by the playback/reproduction chain. Clipping that is in the recording on the other hand, is inherent in the recording and can be heard in revealing systems even at lower volumes because it is IN the recording (although it may be less obvious, and less noticeable at lower volumes).

In this sense, the difference can be thought of as akin to the differences between watching a 60fps video vs a 24fps movie on old school LCD vs old school CRT. The 60fps video has inherently less motion blur due to the higher frame rate and shorter exposure times. It creates that smooth, sharp picture folks associate with the 'video' or SOE look. Viewed on a CRT, this produced a picture that was sharp and smooth. Older LCD displays though, would create blur due to the slow LCD lag/response times. This was due to the playback chain's inadequacies. OTOH, 24fps has motion blur baked-in the recorded material (an inherent artifact due to the slower exposure times used to blend frames at the slower 24fps rate). Even on a CRT, 24fps exhibits much more motion blur than 60fps, but a slow response LCD can introduce even more artifacts.

As a sidenote, most folks are less sensitive to distortion that occurs mostly in the lowest bass octaves. We have a natural tendency to be more sensitive to distortion in the mids and higher frequencies where our hearing is most sensitive (especially in the vocal range of a woman/child's scream).

If you do a Google search on 'clipping' and 'distortion', there are numerous websites that actually have audio clips of the exact same soundbytes/audio tracks clipped vs unclipped (and there are specific links to some of these examples on the databass forum somewhere.). Again, it's been a long time since I've searched for/viewed those and I don't have the links readily available, but they were easy to find the last time I looked, thus if someone were to respond, "Yes, but what are the SPECIFIC links?", it would be viewed as an example of, "I can't be bothered to spend MY time looking for this information, so I want YOU or someone else to spend YOUR time to find it for me". But from what I've read, you appear to be someone genuinely interested in learning more about this topic and simply a little cautious about restricting your digital footprint on the internet. The majority of the links I recall seeing online with audio tracks exhibiting the differences between clipped and unclipped material did NOT require you to register to view/hear them though.

Now all that said, as someone else has mentioned, ignorance can be bliss. A lot of folks I know don't care about, and are completely oblivious to the many artifacts that AVS'ers obsess about. Most of the regular folks I know have no idea about Dirty Screen Effect, Vertical Banding, crushed blacks, clipped whites, poor contrast, green/red/blue push, audible distortion and clipping, uncalibrated/poor frequency response, bass ringing, comb filtering, bass nulls etc. and they're blissful in their ignorance, whereas once you research and teach yourself to identify these artifacts, it's difficult to avoid noticing them from that point onwards.


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