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post #20431 of 21688 Old 04-01-2015, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by mo949 View Post
the post about the oppo 105 in there was even more interesting than the charts to me
That was interesting to me, as well.

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post #20432 of 21688 Old 04-01-2015, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by mo949 View Post
the post about the oppo 105 in there was even more interesting than the charts to me
Agreed. Does this mean our Oppos are clipping the audio? First I have read about this so I don't know any details. Obviously lots of us bassheads are Oppo users though so I am curious to know more about this!

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post #20433 of 21688 Old 04-01-2015, 05:38 PM
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Agreed. Does this mean our Oppos are clipping the audio? First I have read about this so I don't know any details. Obviously lots of us bassheads are Oppo users though so I am curious to know more about this!
The way I read those charts shows to me that the OPPO reads the audio at a higher sensitivity. Hence, the clipping from the OPPO. Guess I'll find out tomorrow when I get my shiny discs.

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post #20434 of 21688 Old 04-02-2015, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Mongo171 View Post
The way I read those charts shows to me that the OPPO reads the audio at a higher sensitivity. Hence, the clipping from the OPPO. Guess I'll find out tomorrow when I get my shiny discs.



I may be mistaken, but those OPPO problems seem to occur if you use the analog audio outputs with bass management being internal to the Oppo.


If you use the digital HDMI output to feed an AVR in the standard way, is there any problem?
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post #20435 of 21688 Old 04-02-2015, 01:08 AM
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Meh... Interstelllar just didn't do anything for me. I was really looking forward to it,, as it seemed like my kind of movie, with potentially great sound. There was some deep bass, but muddy, not clear. I agree with the other site. And I just didn't get into the movie like I thought I would. Oh well. Glad I rented.
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post #20436 of 21688 Old 04-02-2015, 02:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongo171 View Post
The way I read those charts shows to me that the OPPO reads the audio at a higher sensitivity. Hence, the clipping from the OPPO. Guess I'll find out tomorrow when I get my shiny discs.



I may be mistaken, but those OPPO problems seem to occur if you use the analog audio outputs with bass management being internal to the Oppo.


If you use the digital HDMI output to feed an AVR in the standard way, is there any problem?
I use the analog outs. That's the reason people get the 105. With the HDMI outs, I could've just bought the 103. I run right to my amp with no AVR.
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post #20437 of 21688 Old 04-02-2015, 05:03 AM
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Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post
I may be mistaken, but those OPPO problems seem to occur if you use the analog audio outputs with bass management being internal to the Oppo.


If you use the digital HDMI output to feed an AVR in the standard way, is there any problem?

Good catch and that makes sense. Cant see HDMI causing any issues which is how I am hooked up, but it would be good to get confirmation.

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post #20438 of 21688 Old 04-02-2015, 06:48 AM
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Good catch and that makes sense. Cant see HDMI causing any issues which is how I am hooked up, but it would be good to get confirmation.
You won't see issue with HDMI as it is still in the digital domain coming from the oppo. be it bitstream or PCM it makes no matter. The burden then lies on the outputs of your AVR/PRE to pass the signal to your amps unclipped. Truth of the matter is all too many people have the trims wrong in their AVR/PRE's where they are clipping the outputs of their units anyways. I was disappointed in the Oppo results myself, but a proper gain structure would be prudent for quite a few people that read and come through AVS and DB.
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post #20439 of 21688 Old 04-02-2015, 07:03 AM
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I watched Interstellar last night with my wife and a group of non hobby friends. I really liked it, and I thought the sound was great. The extended 30hz part was pretty intense, the nearfield sub had me feeling like my throat was closing up or something... I liked it - haha, is that ok?!?! I think I have a problem.

Nothing real deep but still very enjoyable IMO, I didn't think it was muddy. We watched at -8 with the bass pretty hot - of course.

The switching of aspect ratios was over the top. It changed so many times compared to the other movies that do this (Tron, Dark Knight) and was very annoying. I have a lot of velvet around my screen wall and ceiling/floor, I can't imagine how annoying it would be for the guys that don't have velvet to absorb a lot of the light.

Next time I watch it I think I'll have to resort to watching it in tiny mode so it will fit the screen when it blows up. Sucks.

Ugh... I hope this isn't the future of Blu Rays.
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post #20440 of 21688 Old 04-02-2015, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by mo949 View Post
Feel free to let us know where you are finding it. On my end I'm seeing a whole bunch of effects (and I'm thinking of the tree falling over in avatar as I type this) where you would expect a natural amount of bass and getting nothing more than a nice trebly whoosh.

I want bass like they used in Need for Speed where the engines really RUMBLE.
Caveat: I don't have the measurement equipment you guys have, so I can't say for certain that what I'm playing has content < 30Hz (though my Hsu VTF-2 will go there). And the more I read this thread, the more I'm realizing I probably misunderstood, thinking that "BASS" meant anything below 80Hz. Discussion here seems to center on the low freqs we can't even hear...? Or am I exaggerating....

I can say that the opening of Twilight Time's JOURNEY TO THE CENTER OF THE EARTH set my sub working hard (Bernard Herrmann's score utilized 5 organs, 4 electric and one cathedral). Amazing since that's a 50 yo movie.

Another fyi: I don't buy a lot of new movies, in fact very few unless I'm getting something my daughter (12 yo) likes. I regret I didn't get BIG HERO 6 when there was a coupon, I hadn't seen it yet.

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post #20441 of 21688 Old 04-02-2015, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by ChromeJob View Post
And the more I read this thread, the more I'm realizing I probably misunderstood, thinking that "BASS" meant anything below 80Hz. Discussion here seems to center on the low freqs we can't even hear...? Or am I exaggerating....
My personal opinion and interpretation is as follows.
You're right. "Bass" means more than just the ELF range. (ELF = Extremely Low Frequencies = 3Hz-30Hz) I think the reason this thread tends to focus on the ELF range is because the rest of the bass range is so good in the majority of movies anyway. A corollary: You don't see many car reviews that mention how great the air conditioner is. That's not because their air conditioners aren't any good. It's because almost every new car has a good air conditioner. When they're all good, it's not very interesting to talk about. Almost every movie has bass well handled from 30Hz-120Hz. 3Hz-30Hz is what has the potential to set one apart, either as a standout or a disappointment.

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Discussion here seems to center on the low freqs we can't even hear...? Or am I exaggerating....
That "can't even hear" part is the only spot I see you exaggerating. Where did you get the idea that you can't hear ELF?
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post #20442 of 21688 Old 04-02-2015, 07:55 AM
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The New Master List of BASS in Movies with Frequency Charts

I disagree. You might see a car review point out that the air condition/climate control has a really dumb limitation, or a really clever advantage that the others don't have. Likewise, you might find a movie like The Right Stuff or Invasion of the Body Snatchers (1978) with a very precise, artistic use of low freqs.

By the book, I presume that I can't hear below 20Hz or so. I have tinnitus, some loss around 3kHz if I remember the last tests, and playing Hsu's test CD of the Saint-Saens organ symphony, during a passage that has 16Hz energy, I can hear the upper registers, feel the lower stuff (dont have the Hsu turned up to rattle the walls). My understanding is that sub-aural frequencies are harmonics of audible freqs, which creates a more realistic overall impression. I might have to contradict myself, during one playback, I "felt" ELF vibrations in my ear.

By exaggeration, I meant, am I exaggerating the gist of the discussions here. That is, are we talking about films with lots of activity at the ELF levels that we can see/hear our listening rooms vibrate. (I'll have to play that scene in Olympus Has Fallen to see what all the talk is about.)

For me, "good bass" is the total picture, e.g. Holly Cole's "Train Song" or the trap set in Diana Krall's "Between the Devil and the Deep Blue Sea" (album Stepping Out). A funny example I tripped upon this week, the bass guitar in "Diamonds Are Forever" (remastered John Barry soundtrack). I know, that's not really low bass, but it's so front and center, it does utilize the sub. Don't ask me how. ,:}

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post #20443 of 21688 Old 04-02-2015, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
You won't see issue with HDMI as it is still in the digital domain coming from the oppo. be it bitstream or PCM it makes no matter. The burden then lies on the outputs of your AVR/PRE to pass the signal to your amps unclipped. Truth of the matter is all too many people have the trims wrong in their AVR/PRE's where they are clipping the outputs of their units anyways. I was disappointed in the Oppo results myself, but a proper gain structure would be prudent for quite a few people that read and come through AVS and DB.
Thanks for the info Beast, much appreciated!

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post #20444 of 21688 Old 04-02-2015, 08:05 AM
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Edit: potential minor spoilers...read at own risk


Here is what I posted on another forum about Interstellar, not a big fan of the movie overall.

One of the main things I didn't like about the movie were the characters. Frankly the most likeable character in the whole movie was a robot, or robots really haha and by far didn't have nearly enough screen time. The first act (or third of the movie) was good, the second act was horrible in my opinion. Both the daughter and son were unlikeable, not to mention the dude on the planet. Almost didn't like any character at that point. The science was a mess to say the least. At most they would lose minutes, maybe hours by traveling that fast (the faster you go the more there is a time difference between those moving slower and those moving faster) but there is no way they would lose months let alone years without first getting stuck in the gravitational pull at the very least, or just downright killed. I actually didn't mind the third act at all but would be intrigued to see what the alternative was. Overall it would only get in the mid 6's or so, maybe a little less. Audio and video were really good but I'm not really sure if I'd watch it a second time. Basically, I'm disappointed and expected more from it even though my expectations were already pretty low for this movie. It was better than Gravity but that's not saying much as that movie was just a woman freaking out the whole movie and was frankly a bit sexist (man calm and cool and the woman losing her sh**...pretty typical).

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post #20445 of 21688 Old 04-02-2015, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by ChromeJob View Post
I disagree. You might see a car review point out that the air condition/climate control has a really dumb limitation, or a really clever advantage that the others don't have.
Yes you might. But you usually don't. That's the point.
(I'll recognize the possibility that you've been reading car reviews from a source that handles such things drastically differently than the sources I rely on. Maybe your car review guys spend significant time on the air conditioner for each car. I read a hell of a lot about automobiles, and there's truly little verbiage spent on AC. I happen to like it that way. And I think the comparison is still apt.)

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By the book, I presume that I can't hear below 20Hz or so. I have tinnitus, some loss around 3kHz if I remember the last tests, and playing Hsu's test CD of the Saint-Saens organ symphony, during a passage that has 16Hz energy, I can hear the upper registers, feel the lower stuff (dont have the Hsu turned up to rattle the walls). My understanding is that sub-aural frequencies are harmonics of audible freqs, which creates a more realistic overall impression. I might have to contradict myself, during one playback, I "felt" ELF vibrations in my ear.

By exaggeration, I meant, am I exaggerating the gist of the discussions here. That is, are we talking about films with lots of activity at the ELF levels that we can see/hear our listening rooms vibrate. (I'll have to play that scene in Olympus Has Fallen to see what all the talk is about.)

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Tinnitus sucks. I'm sorry to hear that. (Definitely no pun intended.)

I'm not being glib at all when I ask this. By what book? I've never seen any data suggesting that audibility stops at 20Hz. I'd be interested in taking a look if you have a source.

Below some frequency there certainly is a shift to more physical feel of sound waves. The transition in perception type between hearing and feeling is, to me, pretty irrelevant. We perceive pressure waves all the way down in real life, and we perceive pressure waves all the way down when played back at comparable levels. The exact mechanics of how we perceive them doesn't affect their importance to the recreation of live events from a disc.
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post #20446 of 21688 Old 04-02-2015, 08:25 AM
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The New Master List of BASS in Movies with Frequency Charts

Quote:
Originally Posted by pitviper33 View Post
Yes you might. But you usually don't. That's the point.

(I'll recognize the possibility that you've been reading car reviews from a source that handles such things drastically differently than the sources I rely on. Maybe your car review guys spend significant time on the air conditioner for each car. I read a hell of a lot about automobiles, and there's truly little verbiage spent on AC. I happen to like it that way. And I think the comparison is still apt.)





Tinnitus sucks. I'm sorry to hear that. (Definitely no pun intended.)



I'm not being glib at all when I ask this. By what book? I've never seen any data suggesting that audibility stops at 20Hz. I'd be interested in taking a look if you have a source.



Below some frequency there certainly is a shift to more physical feel of sound waves. The transition in perception type between hearing and feeling is, to me, pretty irrelevant. We perceive pressure waves all the way down in real life, and we perceive pressure waves all the way down when played back at comparable levels. The exact mechanics of how we perceive them doesn't affect their importance to the recreation of live events from a disc.

Lately about all the car reviews I glance at are Consumer Reports where, yes, they call out annoyances and clever advantages where pertinent, and anything contributing to value is pertinent. I used to read Car & Driver cover to cover back in my college days (80s) and I do recall that dashboard layout or creature comforts merited maybe a sentence or two at the end of the review, at best.

Last "book" I was reading was Richard Hardesty's subwoofer basics series at Widescreen Review, and some primers on audioholics, other sites (which I took with grain of salt). I'm not disagreeing with you about perception of ELF, my POV is that bass from ELF up to 200Hz is a total picture, and focusing only on the red (ELF) in a Manet painting isn't as satisfying as appreciating all the colors, brush strokes, etc. The building sinking into the water in CASINO ROYALE certainly is impressive (a nicely rendered throbbing as you look down at the model crashing into the water). The thrum and roar of the X-1 engine as Yeager rides by it on his horse in THE RIGHT STUFF impressed me more. It's dynamic and "alive" as the camera tracks by it.

Anyhoo, I'm not trying to derail the discussion.
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post #20447 of 21688 Old 04-02-2015, 08:48 AM
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Here is what I posted on another forum about Interstellar, not a big fan of the movie overall.

One of the main things I didn't like about the movie were the characters. Frankly the most likeable character in the whole movie was a robot, or robots really haha and by far didn't have nearly enough screen time. The first act (or third of the movie) was good, the second act was horrible in my opinion. Both the daughter and son were unlikeable, not to mention the dude on the planet. Almost didn't like any character at that point. The science was a mess to say the least. At most they would lose minutes, maybe hours by traveling that fast (the faster you go the more there is a time difference between those moving slower and those moving faster) but there is no way they would lose months let alone years without first getting stuck in the gravitational pull at the very least, or just downright killed. I actually didn't mind the third act at all but would be intrigued to see what the alternative was. Overall it would only get in the mid 6's or so, maybe a little less. Audio and video were really good but I'm not really sure if I'd watch it a second time. Basically, I'm disappointed and expected more from it even though my expectations were already pretty low for this movie. It was better than Gravity but that's not saying much as that movie was just a woman freaking out the whole movie and was frankly a bit sexist (man calm and cool and the woman losing her sh**...pretty typical).
While not BIG spoilers, spoilers non-the-less....please wrap spoiler tags around potential spoilers in the future, Nod!
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post #20448 of 21688 Old 04-02-2015, 08:50 AM
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Sorry, I thought I was vague enough that I didn't really give anything away. Although I guess I can see your point about the time issue.

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While not BIG spoilers, spoilers non-the-less....please wrap spoiler tags around potential spoilers in the future, Nod!

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post #20449 of 21688 Old 04-02-2015, 09:16 AM
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Thanks Nod!

And just for the record, I disagree completely with your review! I loved the movie...thought the characters were engaging, and the story (while maybe not scientifically accurate) was very well done, not to mention the spectacular audio. Oh, and I loved Gravity as well.
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post #20450 of 21688 Old 04-02-2015, 10:31 AM
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Lately about all the car reviews I glance at are Consumer Reports where, yes, they call out annoyances and clever advantages where pertinent, and anything contributing to value is pertinent. I used to read Car & Driver cover to cover back in my college days (80s) and I do recall that dashboard layout or creature comforts merited maybe a sentence or two at the end of the review, at best.

Last "book" I was reading was Richard Hardesty's subwoofer basics series at Widescreen Review, and some primers on audioholics, other sites (which I took with grain of salt). I'm not disagreeing with you about perception of ELF, my POV is that bass from ELF up to 200Hz is a total picture, and focusing only on the red (ELF) in a Manet painting isn't as satisfying as appreciating all the colors, brush strokes, etc. The building sinking into the water in CASINO ROYALE certainly is impressive (a nicely rendered throbbing as you look down at the model crashing into the water). The thrum and roar of the X-1 engine as Yeager rides by it on his horse in THE RIGHT STUFF impressed me more. It's dynamic and "alive" as the camera tracks by it.

Anyhoo, I'm not trying to derail the discussion.
I think the reason we 'focus' on <30hz content here is because most modern action-y movies have satisfactory bass above 30hz, so we talk about those special movies that have ELF and above 30hz. It's not that we're only paying attention to one color in the painting, it's that most paintings are missing that one color.

Though not as frequent, there is attention to bass that isn't ultra low. Many people talk about tactile bass feel in movies, or how satisfying a near-field sub is. Those frequencies are more on the mid-upper bass range.
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post #20451 of 21688 Old 04-02-2015, 05:22 PM
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I think that's a great way to put it. Its a cavity in an otherwise great sound track when you don't hear anything under 30 when you know you should be.

Of course there's always those other soundtracks where they prominently display their gold teeth
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post #20452 of 21688 Old 04-03-2015, 05:48 AM
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We've had my wife's family over the past few days so I've been showing my brothers in law some good bass movies. First night we watched Oblivion, last night we watched Live, Die Repeat and tonight is Interstellar. And I think tomorrow night I may have to throw in The Incredible Hulk. The duals are getting a decent little workout.
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post #20453 of 21688 Old 04-03-2015, 10:07 AM
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I watched Interstellar last night with my wife and a group of non hobby friends. I really liked it, and I thought the sound was great. The extended 30hz part was pretty intense, the nearfield sub had me feeling like my throat was closing up or something... I liked it - haha, is that ok?!?! I think I have a problem.

Nothing real deep but still very enjoyable IMO, I didn't think it was muddy. We watched at -8 with the bass pretty hot - of course.

The switching of aspect ratios was over the top. It changed so many times compared to the other movies that do this (Tron, Dark Knight) and was very annoying. I have a lot of velvet around my screen wall and ceiling/floor, I can't imagine how annoying it would be for the guys that don't have velvet to absorb a lot of the light.

Next time I watch it I think I'll have to resort to watching it in tiny mode so it will fit the screen when it blows up. Sucks.

Ugh... I hope this isn't the future of Blu Rays.
Same here carp. Dialogue for me wasn't muddy at all. i read around about the dialog being muddy.Could it be cause each individual perceive sound differently? Or the speakers? Or the system setup? But yea, the bass in this movie was friggin intense. Another demo material for me now. Lol
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post #20454 of 21688 Old 04-03-2015, 10:15 AM
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I heard every word uttered loud and clear enjoyed it!
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post #20455 of 21688 Old 04-03-2015, 10:21 AM
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Hey Toe
I did a constant 2.40 crop with hand brake
for 1920 X 800

Custom cropping -
Top 140 - Bottom 140 in options

4 of us watched it - looked great
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Appreciate the report GP and that is great to hear! Looking forward to spinning this Fri.
Question for both of you guys:

Do you end up ripping this on a BD, or do you play it in some other way?

I can't do it straight from my PC and I don't have an HTPC to stream it from. I have TDK and TDKR on BD's but somebody had to help me rip my file because my software isn't compatible for it.

Feel free to PM me on the matter.
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post #20456 of 21688 Old 04-03-2015, 10:34 AM
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Question for both of you guys:

Do you end up ripping this on a BD, or do you play it in some other way?

I can't do it straight from my PC and I don't have an HTPC to stream it from. I have TDK and TDKR on BD's but somebody had to help me rip my file because my software isn't compatible for it.

Feel free to PM me on the matter.
I use my Lumagen video processor to mask these VA films to a constant scope ratio.

JVC 3D: Been there, done that, bought a DLP
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post #20457 of 21688 Old 04-03-2015, 11:10 AM
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Alright ! got the two talked about movies and one will be here tomorrow Interstellar and Exodus gods and Kings Tuesday (Amazon 1 disc blu for $12) I've been down for awhile but back in business with a new pre/pro Marantz 8802 (which if you haven't heard about the new D&M implementation of Audyssey regarding bass, guess what no bump needed better main integration and up 5db at all frequencies and I'm not sure why: but its incredible)

I also replaced my oppo 105 with a Marantz Ud5007 which turned out to be a much better player than expected I have no Atmos running yet but DSU is still pretty cool , I've been waiting to run a playback at reference volume and these two bad boys should get it done!

Let the games begin
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post #20458 of 21688 Old 04-03-2015, 11:11 AM
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Since Interstellar is the first film where I have experienced constant tactile bass, are there any other recommended films out there that accomplish a similar feat?

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I use my Lumagen video processor to mask these VA films to a constant scope ratio.
Lucky you, I can only do that with VLC media player on my PC. I don't think Blu-ray players have this software capability.

I believe the other user mentioned he uses HandBrake, which is what I'll be using as well. Perhaps he can help me here.
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post #20459 of 21688 Old 04-03-2015, 11:51 AM
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I'll be watching exodus tonight. I'll post back after
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post #20460 of 21688 Old 04-03-2015, 03:14 PM
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How is the man with iron fists 2? Hope it as good as the first.
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Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

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