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Old 07-01-2015, 09:01 AM
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Hi Guys,

I actually need some help. This might not be the right place but you all seem highly knowledgable on your Bass so maybe someone might be able to help me

Recently my AVR Onkyo 609 died (it was set up by AVR Home cinema specialist), it was running 5.1 B&W Speakers and Sub. I also had an amp running my CROWSONs transducers for two sofas.

When i bought my new AVR Onkyo TX-NR646 and set it up. I don't think I'm getting the same "correct" amount of Bass/Sofa Vibrations as i was getting before on quiter sounds.

I have setup my AVR doing the following:

Crossover for Subwoofer 120Hz and the speakers 80Hz each. Does that sound right? (I'm not sure what my old settings were).

One new setting i found on my AVR was Phase Matching Bass, its really great as it adds oomph to really low/quite sounds. Maybe like a door suddenly opening, i tried it with this and without and when using without you don't feel anything at all when the door opens in a scene from World War Z, however when this mode is on, you get a tiny judder which is very effective. However, the issue with setting this mode is that it adds way too much bass to the already loud/high sounds! Shaking up my whole house in some scenes! Hence, i thought maybe Off was the mode i should select for this! What do you think?

Is there any other way i can get the transducers to fire at those small sounds like the door opening but stay the same on the loud sounds like car crash etc...?

So the issue I'm having currently is that all loud and mid-loud sounds are fine, but I'm not getting any bass (and my transducers are not working) for the low quite sounds, that you just know should have bass but doesn't.

Its hard for me to exactly compare, but to me it feels as if i had bass and transducers working for those quite sounds with my old AVR.

The Subwoofer has a dial on the back (Phase something) and the transducers amplifier has another one for LPF. These dials have not been changed from my old AVR so they should not be causing the problem. Also my Amps volume (that is running the crowsons) is currently on full.

Any help with this please guys?

Thanks.
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Old 07-01-2015, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post

Digler are you sure you had your subs on?
man hop, i'm starting to feel like you don't want to be friends with me.....

but of course i had my subs on! dual xv15se's which i know you are familiar with, and it sounded really good....i guess i'm just not understanding the excessive fanfare. it's no slouch by any means, but TIH it is not.

i guess now that you have a v3600i you are just too cool for the rest of us.
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Old 07-01-2015, 08:38 PM
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Just picked up Jupiter Ascending on Blu-Ray from Red Box. Going to watch it in the morning. This should be a fun ride since I now have full reference capability down to 10Hz and below. Well, in the bass department anyway. Speakers are not quite there yet.
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Old 07-01-2015, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by digler84 View Post
man hop, i'm starting to feel like you don't want to be friends with me.....

but of course i had my subs on! dual xv15se's which i know you are familiar with, and it sounded really good....i guess i'm just not understanding the excessive fanfare. it's no slouch by any means, but TIH it is not.

i guess now that you have a v3600i you are just too cool for the rest of us.
Dirk, I reckon it's right up there with TIH damn it! It's not got a killer scene like Hulk vs Abomination or the pod emergence of WOTW but it's got huge hits, too many to mention, all the way throughout, more than both those movies have. For me the clean presentation (no clipping) just about seals the deal as the perfect bass movie. Full bandwidth the whole way too. I'm going to watch all three TIH, WOTW and JA back to back to see whether it stacks up but I'm confident it does. For content alone I put JA ahead but the other two have some killer scenes which JA doesn't have. All are top shelf so splitting hairs. In the end variables in setups will mean different experience for everyone but I'm a solid backer of JA being mentioned in the same sentence as any bass movie ever made.
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Old 07-01-2015, 10:48 PM
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Jupiter Ascending has already earned its bass patch and has since moved on to needle point
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Old 07-02-2015, 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by AJ72 View Post
Dirk, I reckon it's right up there with TIH damn it! It's not got a killer scene like Hulk vs Abomination or the pod emergence of WOTW but it's got huge hits, too many to mention, all the way throughout, more than both those movies have. For me the clean presentation (no clipping) just about seals the deal as the perfect bass movie. Full bandwidth the whole way too. I'm going to watch all three TIH, WOTW and JA back to back to see whether it stacks up but I'm confident it does. For content alone I put JA ahead but the other two have some killer scenes which JA doesn't have. All are top shelf so splitting hairs. In the end variables in setups will mean different experience for everyone but I'm a solid backer of JA being mentioned in the same sentence as any bass movie ever made.
Wow! Same league as TIH? That is still probably my favorite bass film. Cant wait to watch JA tonight!
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Old 07-02-2015, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Toe View Post
Wow! Same league as TIH? That is still probably my favorite bass film. Cant wait to watch JA tonight!
Yes Toe my friend can't wait to hear what you think about it. It's a big call I know as TIH is the king for me too.......... Until now. JA is at least its equal on my system.

Initially whilst I was watching I didn't get some of the hits that were coming. As a result I bumped the sub trim 2dB but then the movie took off and came into its own anyway. I HIGHLY recommend running this film 2 or 3dB hotter than normal. It's a fun ride.
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Old 07-02-2015, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by digler84 View Post
man hop, i'm starting to feel like you don't want to be friends with me.....

but of course i had my subs on! dual xv15se's which i know you are familiar with, and it sounded really good....i guess i'm just not understanding the excessive fanfare. it's no slouch by any means, but TIH it is not.

i guess now that you have a v3600i you are just too cool for the rest of us.
Dig... of course we're still friends. I was just messing with you. I know the system you have and it's incredible so I'm just scratching my head why you didn't find the bass in JA to be very good.

However, in all seriousness, this brings up an interesting point. You and a few other guys aren't finding the bass in JA to be anything special while others are ranking it up there as a 5 star bass powerhouse. I wonder what's causing there to be a such huge difference in what people are experiencing.

In most other possible 5 star bass movies there is usually full agreement that the movie is a bass monster. With TIH and WOTW there's full consensus that they have incredible bass. But in the case of JA... not so much. It's a head scratcher.
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Old 07-02-2015, 08:43 AM
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I didn't notice anything amazing in Jupiter Ascending, maybe I had it too low. Bass was definitely good, nowhere near 5 star movies though for me.
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Old 07-02-2015, 09:04 AM
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It measures as a 4.75 star movie. Exactly how the other heavy hitters measure. The only thing holding it back is dynamics. So therefore it's how it's played back Possible too low level in the persons HT

TIh:
Level - 5 Stars (112.99dB composite)
Extension - 5 Stars (2Hz)
Dynamics - 4 Stars (25.61dB)
Execution - 5 Stars - Still the track I hold all others to. It has everything.


Wotw:
WOTWCh9-1.JPG

War of the Worlds:

Level - 5 Stars (113.7dB composite)
Extension - 5 Stars (1 Hz)
Dynamics - 4 Stars (27.28dB)
Execution - 5 Stars - This film is the ultimate bass film, with something for every subwoofer system.

Overall - 4.75 Stars

JA:
Jupiter Ascending (7.1 TrueHD)

Level - 5 Stars (113.94dB composite)
Extension - 5 Stars (6Hz)
Dynamics - 4 Stars (26.76dB)
Execution - TBD

Recommendation: Buy.

From data-bass.com
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Old 07-02-2015, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
Dig... of course we're still friends. I was just messing with you. I know the system you have and it's incredible so I'm just scratching my head why you didn't find the bass in JA to be very good.

However, in all seriousness, this brings up an interesting point. You and a few other guys aren't finding the bass in JA to be anything special while others are ranking it up there as a 5 star bass powerhouse. I wonder what's causing there to be a such huge difference in what people are experiencing.

In most other possible 5 star bass movies there is usually full agreement that the movie is a bass monster. With TIH and WOTW there's full consensus that they have incredible bass. But in the case of JA... not so much. It's a head scratcher.
I obviously can't speak for anyone else, but I thought JA was a great bass movie and voted it 5 stars. But for me, there's a pantheon of truly all-time great bass movies, and I don't think it quite gets there.

Edit: perhaps that's what it's missing for me--that one (or two) signature demo scene.

Last edited by wth718; 07-02-2015 at 09:14 AM.
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Old 07-02-2015, 10:13 AM
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Wow! Same league as TIH? That is still probably my favorite bass film. Cant wait to watch JA tonight!
TIH is one of my favs to. I like that's an amazing movie also.
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Old 07-02-2015, 11:16 AM
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Some good bargains if you've not previously checked out: ODD THOMAS $7. STRIKE BACK S1&2 $14 -- both pretty good for bass -- the latter a series, of course (could have waited and saved about $15 on the pair, myself, oh well...)
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Old 07-02-2015, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Toe View Post
Wow! Same league as TIH? That is still probably my favorite bass film. Cant wait to watch JA tonight!
I for one know there's no need to recommend going reference on this one to you Toe (as I know you always do) but to insure a bass feast along with an excellent soundtrack , this one somehow enabled the Loudness Management on my pre/pro and I didn't catch it till the second viewing! Once off the damn of bass burst forth with a vengeance

And this one, I didn't run hot ! but Carp mentioned its all gravy if you decided to bump the bass, which I may do for my third viewing !

Enjoy
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Old 07-02-2015, 11:31 AM
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Toe,

Enjoy that hit at the 1:33:00 time frame...lasts about 1 second but WOW does it ever hit HARD!
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Old 07-02-2015, 12:04 PM
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Toe,

Enjoy that hit at the 1:33:00 time frame...lasts about 1 second but WOW does it ever hit HARD!
You mean the hit that caused a flex, jolt, crack or the sound of splitting timber in the room in a place that's never so much made a peep!
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Old 07-02-2015, 02:32 PM
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Fatshaft, you're opinion on this one (JA) will be interesting to give perspective. You love lots of bass I know, where do you rate JA?

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Old 07-02-2015, 02:44 PM
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Toe,

Enjoy that hit at the 1:33:00 time frame...lasts about 1 second but WOW does it ever hit HARD!
Looking forward to it! I assume this is that huge 25hz spike from the graphs?

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Old 07-02-2015, 02:51 PM
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I for one know there's no need to recommend going reference on this one to you Toe (as I know you always do) but to insure a bass feast along with an excellent soundtrack , this one somehow enabled the Loudness Management on my pre/pro and I didn't catch it till the second viewing! Once off the damn of bass burst forth with a vengeance

And this one, I didn't run hot ! but Carp mentioned its all gravy if you decided to bump the bass, which I may do for my third viewing !

Enjoy
Interesting and thanks for the warning my friend! Just noticed this is a TrueHD track, so maybe it is one of those rare ones like Iron Man that engages DRC on some preamps (this happens on my Onkyo 885 with Iron Man). Will make sure DRC is off once the movie starts.
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Old 07-02-2015, 02:57 PM
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Just picked up Jupiter Ascending on Blu-Ray from Red Box. Going to watch it in the morning. This should be a fun ride since I now have full reference capability down to 10Hz and below. Well, in the bass department anyway. Speakers are not quite there yet.
Do you know how low 'Jupiter Ascending' goes?

* 6Hz ...I just read Brian's above post. ...I'm out of the "loop". ...That 6Hz frequency, what instrument causes it, a synthesizer?

How low can a bass shaker go?

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Old 07-02-2015, 03:07 PM
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Do you know how low 'Jupiter Ascending' goes?

* 6Hz ...I just read Brian's abovenpost. ...I'm out of the "loop". ...That 6Hz frequency, what instrument causes it, a synthesizer?

How low can a bass shaker go?



"How low can a bass shaker go?"

Depends on the "shaker" and the rest of the equipment/signal chain. 5hz is not unreasonable.

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Old 07-02-2015, 03:08 PM
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I obviously can't speak for anyone else, but I thought JA was a great bass movie and voted it 5 stars. But for me, there's a pantheon of truly all-time great bass movies, and I don't think it quite gets there.

Edit: perhaps that's what it's missing for me--that one (or two) signature demo scene.
I admit I ran JA a bit hot so maybe thats why I noticed the bass. The bass sounded fantastic so it does seem to be done cleanly. As far as demo scenes I feel like there is at least one scene that may serve that purpose but I'm not certain. I will have to go back and watch it again but I do remember when
Spoiler!

Maybe that scene might prove to be one of those go to scenes.
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Old 07-02-2015, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
Do you know how low 'Jupiter Ascending' goes?

* 6Hz ...I just read Brian's above post. ...I'm out of the "loop". ...That 6Hz frequency, what instrument causes it, a synthesizer?

How low can a bass shaker go?
I wouldn't worry much about 6 Hz. If you can cover mid teens and up you got 95% of what is there imo.
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Old 07-02-2015, 04:27 PM
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"How low can a bass shaker go?"

Depends on the "shaker" and the rest of the equipment/signal chain. 5hz is not unreasonable.
Scott, what's the scale of the horizontal lines in that graph, ...5dB?

And the juice (spike) seems to be coming from the low 25 Hertz region, where you can still hear it.

__________

Any of you guys here using the D-BOX motion code simulator with your movies? ...You know...the Odyssee system that you put under your chairs and that are sync/programmed with those FOX Blu-ray movies. ...That's a Canadian invention by the way.

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Old 07-02-2015, 04:34 PM
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Scott, what's the scale of the horizontal lines in that graph, ...5dB?

And the juice (spike) seems to be coming from the low 25 Hertz region, where you can still hear it.

__________

Any of you guys here using the D-BOX motion code simulator with your movies? ...You know...the Odyssee system that you put under your chairs and that are sync/programmed with those FOX Blu-ray movies. ...That's a Canadian invention by the way.
Horizontal is frequency. Vertical is dB.

25hz is really that audible if there is no distortion. That spike will knock things off the walls. You'll hear that.

Most people don't have D-Box but there is a thread about it in the >$20k subforum.

My sub riser gives quite a 'motion simulator' sensation with the right content. A lot cheaper than the Dbox too.

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Old 07-02-2015, 04:52 PM
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I wouldn't worry much about 6 Hz. If you can cover mid teens and up you got 95% of what is there imo.
I was subscribing to Widescreen Review for several years in the past, and reading the DVD and HD DVD and Blu-ray movie reviews.
They have a measuring tool that tells how much content, if any, in some of those flicks under 30 and 25Hz.
I don't remember reading much about content below 20Hz in many movies. I guess their tool is an antique and they need to upgrade in order to give us some accurate information in them Blus.

Organ music; it's about 0.001% of my entire music collection, roughly 6,000 music titles...so I do need those pipe organs with their fundamentals in the 16Hz region plus the sub harmonics below @ around 8Hz. ...And some of my test and bass discs with content down to 3Hz, them too need to be accurately reproduced if I want to be in touch with the best that science has to offer in order to grow up in total wisdom and freedom and gain the respect of all my peers on planet Earth.

You say mid teens, others say late single digits, and others late teens. ...And yet the best bass music impact is around 80Hz for good clarity, and 40Hz in movies for best punch in the guts of our chest.
But for a true swivelling tornado in your living rooms only the people living in tornado alley of the USA can tell you all about...no fun.

And for real organ music what better places than the best cathedrals in the world.

'Interstellar' was a heck of a ride @ my local IMAX theater...and I just don't care about Database and all that bass pizzazz.
Now its 'Mad Max: Fury Road', also @ IMAX.

Some of you guys have awesome bass systems right @ home. ...Stick with the best @ home; Blu-rays.
'Cause bass is more than subterranean lows and high decibel sound pressure; it's also 'bout high bass definition and high resolution.

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Old 07-02-2015, 04:57 PM
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Horizontal is frequency. Vertical is dB.

25hz is really that audible if there is no distortion. That spike will knock things off the walls. You'll hear that.

Most people don't have D-Box but there is a thread about it in the >$20k subforum.

My sub riser gives quite a 'motion simulator' sensation with the right content. A lot cheaper than the Dbox too.
Yeah sorry, that's what I meant, vertical bars. ...Or vertical lines, ...vertical scale.

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Old 07-02-2015, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ72 View Post
Fatshaft, you're opinion on this one (JA) will be interesting to give perspective. You love lots of bass I know, where do you rate JA?
Like GPBURNS once said...even the evening news has bass in my room
I loved JA...it's in the tops for me cuase it has what "I" like.
Relentless hard hitting and low BASS

I don't want to "feel" like this only:


I want to "feel" like this guy...


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Originally Posted by Toe View Post
Looking forward to it! I assume this is that huge 25hz spike from the graphs?
Yes that 25HZ scene I have seen and played at least 100 times...
I can't believe how much my screen SHAKES and during that 1 second!
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Old 07-02-2015, 07:40 PM
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Just watched JA and TIH back to back. Sure the Abomination scene does stand alone almost in its own category but no movie until JA has made my room behave so violently, constantly. The weight behind so much of the bass in the film is extraordinary. As I said before both are outstanding films for bass but for me JA just slightly betters TIH for the amount of bass and its violent, visceral presentation. JA now sits at the top of the tree for pure bass Nirvana!
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Old 07-02-2015, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by AJ72 View Post
Just watched JA and TIH back to back. Sure the Abomination scene does stand alone almost in its own category but no movie until JA has made my room behave so violently, constantly. The weight behind so much of the bass in the film is extraordinary. As I said before both are outstanding films for bass but for me JA just slightly betters TIH for the amount of bass and its violent, visceral presentation. JA now sits at the top of the tree for pure bass Nirvana!
It really is hard to convey but I'm liking " JA just slightly betters TIH for the amount of bass and its violent, visceral presentation. JA now sits at the top of the tree for pure bass Nirvana![/QUOTE]"
It may even rival Micheal Bay "s T4 for quantity but JA throws down the gauntlet on it . Its the very definition of a movie with bass
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