The New Master List of BASS in Movies with Frequency Charts - Page 823 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #24661 of 27514 Old 05-11-2016, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
look again...the peak of avg is at 38Hz @ -40.0 so the -50.0 is at 13Hz

hence it extends to 13Hz
I see the average drops -10 for the first time from the peak at 17/18, it does come back up again a bit lower and then drops again at 13hz
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post #24662 of 27514 Old 05-11-2016, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post
I see the average drops -10 for the first time from the peak at 17/18, it does come back up again a bit lower and then drops again at 13hz
Red line, not green line bro!
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post #24663 of 27514 Old 05-11-2016, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raynist View Post
I see the average drops -10 for the first time from the peak at 17/18, it does come back up again a bit lower and then drops again at 13hz
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Red line, not green line bro!
It's deceiving because it's actually a dip, but the first time the red line hits -50dB at a lower frequency than when it was at -40dB is around 17Hz.

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post #24664 of 27514 Old 05-11-2016, 12:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by galonzo View Post
It's deceiving because it's actually a dip, but the first time the red line hits -50dB at a lower frequency than when it was at -40dB is around 17Hz.
it doesnt matter the first time it dips...its the highest frequency it hits -50
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post #24665 of 27514 Old 05-11-2016, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
it doesnt matter the first time it dips...its the highest frequency it hits -50
I was just saying that since it's a dip, it looks deceiving. I thought it was -10dB coming from the peak frequency; so wherever it peaked, you go to the left from there to get the first time it hits 10dB lower, which would be around the dip at 17Hz. Of course, it could be like you're saying (the lowest frequency that is first hit at 10dB lower than the peak frequency).

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post #24666 of 27514 Old 05-11-2016, 12:48 PM
 
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2. Extension - The same bass-managed digital signal above is analyzed with Spectrum Lab, with Nuttall windowing, and either a 1 second or 2 second integration time (the longer the integration time, the higher the resolution, at the cost of dynamic peaks, but for the extension category, it is a moot point). Extension is determined as the -10dB point from the overall peak of EITHER the Peak (green) or Average (red) trace, whichever is higher. The ratings are as follows:

5 Stars - <10Hz extension
4 Stars - <15Hz extension
3 Stars - <20Hz extension
2 Stars - <25Hz extension
1 Star - >25Hz extension
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post #24667 of 27514 Old 05-11-2016, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
2. Extension - The same bass-managed digital signal above is analyzed with Spectrum Lab, with Nuttall windowing, and either a 1 second or 2 second integration time (the longer the integration time, the higher the resolution, at the cost of dynamic peaks, but for the extension category, it is a moot point). Extension is determined as the -10dB point from the overall peak of EITHER the Peak (green) or Average (red) trace, whichever is higher. The ratings are as follows:

5 Stars - <10Hz extension
4 Stars - <15Hz extension
3 Stars - <20Hz extension
2 Stars - <25Hz extension
1 Star - >25Hz extension
so it does say "from the overall peak", which implies you go from the peak, down (to the left).

edit: You're right @Brian Fineberg , here it is:
Spoiler!

UN78HU9000FXZA(TS01)/SEK-3500U || UDP-203 (fw: 38-0222)
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Fronts = Klipsch R-3650-WII (x2), Surrounds = Klipsch G12 (x2)
Center = Klipsch RP-160M, Sub = HSU VTF-3 Mk 5,
TFs = Klipsch R-2650-C (x2), TRs = Polk RC80i (x2)
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Last edited by galonzo; 05-11-2016 at 01:01 PM. Reason: correction
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post #24668 of 27514 Old 05-11-2016, 01:01 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
look again...the peak of avg is at 38Hz @ -40.0 so the -50.0 is at 13Hz

hence it extends to 13Hz
are you not reading what I wrote? im not sure i can explain it any better
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post #24669 of 27514 Old 05-11-2016, 01:02 PM
 
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Originally Posted by galonzo View Post
so it does say "from the overall peak", which implies you go from the peak, down (to the left).

edit: You're right @Brian Fineberg , here it is:
Spoiler!
lol. I know I was right...i wasn't guessing..i was trying to educate
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post #24670 of 27514 Old 05-11-2016, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
lol. I know I was right...i wasn't guessing..i was trying to educate
I only read it once when it was first published, and it sounded like you go to the next closest "peak" @-10dB when they say "from the overall peak". At any rate, it is from whichever is higher, which you said you thought it was from whichever is lower; in this case it appears they're both at 38Hz anyway.

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post #24671 of 27514 Old 05-11-2016, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by galonzo View Post
I only read it once when it was first published, and it sounded like you go to the next closest "peak" @-10dB when they say "from the overall peak". At any rate, it is from whichever is higher, which you said you thought it was from whichever is lower; in this case it appears they're both at 38Hz anyway.
I always had problems with that going from the overall peak. You could have a huge peak at 45 hz that would then show the movie as a 22hz movie. Where another movie has 15hz extension that is just as loud as the movie with 22hz extension but it doesn't have that huge peak so gets a better rating.

could it be done by picking a -db point for all movies, say the -50 point and anything below that is considered not audible and thus have a more concrete way of judging the extension.
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post #24672 of 27514 Old 05-11-2016, 01:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by galonzo View Post
I only read it once when it was first published, and it sounded like you go to the next closest "peak" @-10dB when they say "from the overall peak". At any rate, it is from whichever is higher, which you said you thought it was from whichever is lower; in this case it appears they're both at 38Hz anyway.
yes...but the avg has a Lower Hz -10db ...this is getting tedious..


when I said lower i wasnt referring to Db i was referring to Hz...I think you arent grasping what the x and y axis represent on the graphs
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post #24673 of 27514 Old 05-11-2016, 01:41 PM
 
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post
I always had problems with that going from the overall peak. You could have a huge peak at 45 hz that would then show the movie as a 22hz movie. Where another movie has 15hz extension that is just as loud as the movie with 22hz extension but it doesn't have that huge peak so gets a better rating.

could it be done by picking a -db point for all movies, say the -50 point and anything below that is considered not audible and thus have a more concrete way of judging the extension.
same thing with the dynamics rating...TIH gets punished in this category cause it has too much bass??

they admit the system has flaws...buts its head and shoulder above here where its..."that movie had the baddest craziest bass evaaa!!" and getting a 5 star rating
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post #24674 of 27514 Old 05-11-2016, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
same thing with the dynamics rating...TIH gets punished in this category cause it has too much bass??

they admit the system has flaws...buts its head and shoulder above here where its..."that movie had the baddest craziest bass evaaa!!" and getting a 5 star rating
Yeah - that is weird too!

I just like looking at the graphs to quickly tell if it has deep bass.
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post #24675 of 27514 Old 05-11-2016, 01:44 PM
 
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Yeah - that is weird too!

I just like looking at the graphs to quickly tell if it has deep bass.
hahah exactly the same here
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post #24676 of 27514 Old 05-11-2016, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
"that movie had the baddest craziest bass evaaa!!" and getting a 5 star rating
I'm pretty positive that every new movie release has more bass than the previous movie released. Bass just keeps going up and up and up. It's great though, so this way every movie you watch is basically the best bass movie you've ever seen.
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post #24677 of 27514 Old 05-11-2016, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by galonzo View Post
I only read it once when it was first published, and it sounded like you go to the next closest "peak" @-10dB when they say "from the overall peak". At any rate, it is from whichever is higher, which you said you thought it was from whichever is lower; in this case it appears they're both at 38Hz anyway.
yes...but the avg has a Lower Hz -10db ...this is getting tedious..


when I said lower i wasnt referring to Db i was referring to Hz...I think you arent grasping what the x and y axis represent on the graphs
Here's what you said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
No it's the -10 of either the peak or avg whichever is lower.
So I read it as a 13hz movie
It says:
Quote:
Extension is determined as the -10dB point from the overall peak of EITHER the Peak (green) or Average (red) trace, whichever is higher.
I understand you meant whichever has the lower peak (in Hz) at -10dB for each, but their example clearly shows that they are going by whichever peak is at a higher frequency (in the case of Transformers 2, the green is at 123Hz (it's even labeled on their graph) while the peak average (red) is around 37Hz; which would put the -10db for the average around the same frequency as the -10 for the green, but they clearly label the green -10 peak as the extension calculation. For Deadpool, both peaks are at 38Hz, so who knows which they'd go by there.

edit: here's their example again, for convenience:
Spoiler!

UN78HU9000FXZA(TS01)/SEK-3500U || UDP-203 (fw: 38-0222)
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TFs = Klipsch R-2650-C (x2), TRs = Polk RC80i (x2)
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Last edited by galonzo; 05-11-2016 at 02:27 PM. Reason: added graph again for convenience
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post #24678 of 27514 Old 05-11-2016, 02:37 PM
 
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this is my last time...the higher peak is yes 38Hz...so that is the HIGH WATER mark...it is at -40Db...so that means you have to find the lowest frequency in EITHER graph (peak or avg...whichever extends lower in Hz) which is at -50.

the avg is a lower frequency at -50 (13Hz) so that is the measurement you use.
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post #24679 of 27514 Old 05-11-2016, 06:37 PM
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I went out and bought my first 4K Ultra HD blu ray yesterday and picked up Deadpool. Of course, that disc won't play in the PS3 or PS4, so I watched the DTS 7.1 mix. Can I just say that Superhero landing gives me so much life? I bought the movie to hear it, and it certainly didn't dissapoint. In fact, the entire battle with Angel Dust and Colossus at the end, as well as Negasonic Teenage Warhead are just incredible! I wish the entire movie was like this, but I will take what I can get
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post #24680 of 27514 Old 05-11-2016, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
Cool, that would be great if you could.

One example is during the first part of the movie when Christian Bale is negotiating with the banks to setup credit swap on mortgages. They cut in and out of a Ludicrous song.

It was way tactile with the mbm...to much for the screen action, imo. But if you turned off the image and just listened to the song, the tactile response would have been perfect. With the screen action, it just seemed out if place.

I listened without the mbm, and it was less tactile, and seemed to blend better with what was going on. Still on the hot side though I think.
OK, I checked out that scene, and yes, I agree the bass is over-exaggerated...but I think it sounds like the bass line from most hip-hop music; too hot and a bit "electronic" sounding.

That being said, it was a bold editorial choice, but I liked it...I liked it a lot.

BTW, I'm an editor for a living.

Just FYI, I do NOT have a MBM.
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post #24681 of 27514 Old 05-11-2016, 08:45 PM
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The New Master List of BASS in Movies with Frequency Charts

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Originally Posted by pennynike1 View Post
I went out and bought my first 4K Ultra HD blu ray yesterday and picked up Deadpool. Of course, that disc won't play in the PS3 or PS4, so I watched the DTS 7.1 mix. Can I just say that Superhero landing gives me so much life? I bought the movie to hear it, and it certainly didn't dissapoint. In fact, the entire battle with Angel Dust and Colossus at the end, as well as Negasonic Teenage Warhead are just incredible! I wish the entire movie was like this, but I will take what I can get

This was my first UHD purchase as well and like you my equipment won't play the UHD disc but I might as well future proof now for a few dollars more. I thought the 7.1 mix was pretty damn good and sounds way better, especially the bass than my local cinema!



Kind of a different bass movie but,
I was also trying to figure out what Fast and Furious film has the most bass and I remembered that FF3 Tokyo Drift probably had more than the others. I was correct and since going to duel subs the impact of that movie was felt! Not a 4 but a healthy 3 imo. I wish the latest ones got the mix like FF3 did.

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post #24682 of 27514 Old 05-11-2016, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
OK, I checked out that scene, and yes, I agree the bass is over-exaggerated...but I think it sounds like the bass line from most hip-hop music; too hot and a bit "electronic" sounding.

That being said, it was a bold editorial choice, but I liked it...I liked it a lot.

BTW, I'm an editor for a living.

Just FYI, I do NOT have a MBM.
Awesome AP, thanks for doing that!
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post #24683 of 27514 Old 05-12-2016, 05:52 AM
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Originally Posted by pennynike1 View Post
I went out and bought my first 4K Ultra HD blu ray yesterday and picked up Deadpool. Of course, that disc won't play in the PS3 or PS4, so I watched the DTS 7.1 mix. Can I just say that Superhero landing gives me so much life? I bought the movie to hear it, and it certainly didn't dissapoint. In fact, the entire battle with Angel Dust and Colossus at the end, as well as Negasonic Teenage Warhead are just incredible! I wish the entire movie was like this, but I will take what I can get
@pennynike1
Good Call. That was an excellent scene for sure with some great bass moments! Within the first 20 minutes on the freeway wasn't too bad either.
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Well, one more vote for deadpool. I couldn't just "compromise" with the DTS-MA 7.1 on the BD so I went and got the Sammy 8500 UHD player so I could get the full atmos treatment. I am glad I did! What a well done surround mix, and oh yea there was a few bass moments that were very fun. Not going to win any bass-fest awards, but when it was needed, it was definitely there. bullet effects flying all over the place. Great stuff!
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Well, one more vote for deadpool. I couldn't just "compromise" with the DTS-MA 7.1 on the BD so I went and got the Sammy 8500 UHD player so I could get the full atmos treatment. I am glad I did! What a well done surround mix, and oh yea there was a few bass moments that were very fun. Not going to win any bass-fest awards, but when it was needed, it was definitely there. bullet effects flying all over the place. Great stuff!
You got a new player to watch the Atmos version? I LIKE IT!

Now that my friends is how it's done! No holds barred true commitment to the pursuit of great audio.
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You got a new player to watch the Atmos version? I LIKE IT!

Now that my friends is how it's done! No holds barred true commitment to the pursuit of great audio.
thats what I did ( bought the UHD player strictly for more atmos titles)...and it ended up costing me another 3k...cause I said well why not have a 4k PJ too?

lol
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post #24687 of 27514 Old 05-12-2016, 09:24 AM
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You got a new player to watch the Atmos version? I LIKE IT!

Now that my friends is how it's done! No holds barred true commitment to the pursuit of great audio.
Was NOT a purchase I wanted to make just yet, I wanted to wait for the Panny unit which is darn slick, or for the vaporware oppo that might never come out, but this player's price fit the bill for the time being. You gotta do what you gotta do in this neverending pursuit
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post #24688 of 27514 Old 05-12-2016, 09:33 AM
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The New Master List of BASS in Movies with Frequency Charts

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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Was NOT a purchase I wanted to make just yet, I wanted to wait for the Panny unit which is darn slick, or for the vaporware oppo that might never come out, but this player's price fit the bill for the time being. You gotta do what you gotta do in this neverending pursuit


Oppo says 2017 for their unit.

So anyone care to share a couple scenes from deadpool that have some good overhead audio going on? As I mentioned previously it wasn't obvious to me like some other movies with stuff hovering above or with rain etc. Just want to give these scenes a second listen.

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post #24689 of 27514 Old 05-12-2016, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
thats what I did ( bought the UHD player strictly for more atmos titles)...and it ended up costing me another 3k...cause I said well why not have a 4k PJ too?

lol
@Brian Fineberg
Which 4K PJ did you get?
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post #24690 of 27514 Old 05-12-2016, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
this is my last time...the higher peak is yes 38Hz...so that is the HIGH WATER mark...it is at -40Db...so that means you have to find the lowest frequency in EITHER graph (peak or avg...whichever extends lower in Hz) which is at -50.

the avg is a lower frequency at -50 (13Hz) so that is the measurement you use.
Okay, same here (last time); I believe all of the confusion came from when you first (correctly) said it's the lowest -10dB frequency here (and I was incorrectly disputing it):
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
No it's the -10 of either the peak or avg whichever is lower. So I read it as a 13hz movie
Then I explained how I could have confused the dip as the mark, to which you flipped and said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
it doesnt matter the first time it dips...its the highest frequency it hits -50
which doesn't make any sense, since the highest frequency at -50 is around 78Hz,
Spoiler!

then you quoted their explanation that also says to use the higher peak to calculate extension:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
[snip]Extension is determined as the -10dB point from the overall peak of EITHER the Peak (green) or Average (red) trace, whichever is higher...
And then they show this in their example I posted, but then they use the deepest -10 mark for most other movies anyway (as you suggest).

For example, they have X-men3 calculated at 9Hz, but the higher frequency peak is the red at 40Hz, which would make the extension at -10dB around 18Hz by their method above:
Spoiler!

At least we all agree that we like to see the graphs to see how deep a movie gets

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