2011 Kansas City Subwoofer Meet Results - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 553 Old 05-15-2011, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Umm, I believe the native (no port plug) is the 20Hz tune.

BTW, nice work guys ... good stuff

You're right. Now I remember the conversation... Someone asked Jeff if he brought a plug for the Captivator and why a 20Hz tune instead of 15Hz...

We tested the Captivator in its 20Hz tune.

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post #32 of 553 Old 05-15-2011, 07:21 PM
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Great job guys! His room must be really tough because i own a Cap and i get
over 115 with ease and my room is just as big as his and pretty square. I have never heard any port noise at all weird.
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post #33 of 553 Old 05-15-2011, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by sendtobrit View Post

His room must be really tough...

That is putting it mildly. Everyone walked away last night with their tails between their legs.

I especially felt bad because very early on in the meet we played the skoodish scene from KFP on my Epik Empire and I could only get 101dB out of it. Everyone kind of laughed and I said something like at least it didn't bottom out, fart, or make weird noises.

Later on everyone realized just how bad everyone's sub performed.

I know Luke was very unimpressed with how his Hsu performed.

In a different room all of our subs could have performed much better. The Seaton and Captivator still would have beaten the crap out of the others though. It's all relative.

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post #34 of 553 Old 05-15-2011, 07:30 PM
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Little surprised to learn of the distortion/bottoming of the Captivator. I thought the design was underhung and it's a bit odd that the amp supplied would push it into the danger zone at these spls, but perhaps the measurements were taken after adjusting its output.

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #35 of 553 Old 05-15-2011, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

Little surprised to learn of the distortion/bottoming of the Captivator. I thought the design was underhung and it's a bit odd that the amp supplied would push it into the danger zone at these spls, but perhaps the measurements were taken after adjusting its output.

James

It makes me wonder if it's similar to the distortion issues that some have brought up with the Submersive in the past that were simply due to overdriving the input voltage and, thus, simply a setup issue. Anyway, just thinking out loud.
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post #36 of 553 Old 05-15-2011, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vraxoin View Post


It makes me wonder if it's similar to the distortion issues that some have brought up with the Submersive in the past that were simply due to overdriving the input voltage and, thus, simply a setup issue. Anyway, just thinking out loud.

Perhaps, but seeing that Jeff was there (along with others who are pretty knowledgeable ) you'd like to think that wasn't the case, but you could be correct.

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #37 of 553 Old 05-15-2011, 08:02 PM
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Any chance of us knowing when we are going to get total on your scoresheets?
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post #38 of 553 Old 05-15-2011, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

Perhaps, but seeing that Jeff was there (along with others who are pretty knowledgeable ) you'd like to think that wasn't the case, but you could be correct.

James

FWIW all subs were initially level matched to 75dB with the Onkyo's sub trim at -2.5. The Onkyo's sub trim was then raised to +3.5 so the subs would be running 6dB hot during the HT testing.

Jeff did increase the gain on the SubMersive's amp almost immediately after starting cause he felt we were being bombarded with highs (from the mains).

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post #39 of 553 Old 05-15-2011, 08:52 PM
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so was there a jam session with all the subs going at once ?

All this noise about noise.
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post #40 of 553 Old 05-15-2011, 08:56 PM
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"MUSIC and MOVIE COLLECTIVE RANKINGS TO BE UPDATED SOON!"

Awwww....Don't we just need to add up some numbers .
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post #41 of 553 Old 05-15-2011, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by 96redformula View Post

"MUSIC and MOVIE COLLECTIVE RANKINGS TO BE UPDATED SOON!"

Awwww....Don't we just need to add up some numbers .

Archaea had some personal stuff going on today. He will have everything up by tomorrow night. This was/is a lot of work, are you ordering one of them tomorrow? I still have to hook my HSU up at home so I can watch tonights episode of Game of Thrones.
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post #42 of 553 Old 05-15-2011, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Luke Kamp View Post

This was/is a lot of work...

Not to mention his basement was trashed afterwards.

I'm sure the wife wasn't impressed.

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post #43 of 553 Old 05-15-2011, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Kamp View Post

Archaea had some personal stuff going on today. He will have everything up by tomorrow night. This was/is a lot of work, are you ordering one of them tomorrow? I still have to hook my HSU up at home so I can watch tonights episode of Game of Thrones.

Yes, I am was going to order the empire @ $800 right now shipped, but am confused as to if the HSU is worth the extra $200. I keep hearing Epik Empire is great at low-mid end base, I just want to be sure I will have a step up from the eD A2-300 in both output, extension, and SQ.
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post #44 of 553 Old 05-15-2011, 09:20 PM
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It seems that the Submersive was the winner....it is also an $1895.00 sub
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post #45 of 553 Old 05-15-2011, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr_jitsu View Post

It seems that the Submersive was the winner....it is also an $1895.00 sub

I think that's more like $2,195 + shipping nowadays.
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post #46 of 553 Old 05-15-2011, 10:11 PM
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Having owned twin Submersive HP's, twin PC-13 Ultra's, the HSU VTF 15, the current SVS PB13 with DSP and the Powered cap on order I have to shake my head when I hear the sealed Submersive can even keep up to a ported 18" driver and that it had more SPL's.

The Submersive's are an incredible subwoofer with very clean output but I don't remember them being SPL giants. For music they were top notch but I always preferred the ported SVS PC and PB13 Ultras for HT. What happened to the Captivator's 127db's I keep reading about? That is supposed to be with the optimum amp that was used in this test model.

Something doesn't sound right hear. I will wait to read more impressions as they come in. Thanks for posting the results, it sounds like you guys had fun. Thanks
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post #47 of 553 Old 05-15-2011, 11:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Guys I haven't even totalled the collective review scores yet, not that it will be difficult, I can do it, but I wanted to write my subjective review before I ran the numbers anyway. It be great if all the attenders could put their individual rankings up before I give the total numbers, to avoid influencing opinions, but that might not happen, so give me till tomorrow night and I'll put the scores up, now that I posted my subjective review I'll compile the numbers for the music and movie section. I've had about five days now of 2:30-3AM bedtimes, and early mornings.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #48 of 553 Old 05-15-2011, 11:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 96redformula View Post

Yes, I am was going to order the empire @ $800 right now shipped, but am confused as to if the HSU is worth the extra $200. I keep hearing Epik Empire is great at low-mid end base, I just want to be sure I will have a step up from the eD A2-300 in both output, extension, and SQ.

Do you prefer low bass or midbass?

The HSU can be a bit of both, the Epik is midbass, the SVS is low bass.

The difference between the Epik and SVS is about as much difference in my opinion as any two subs were on this list during the music demonstration. I myself prefer the SVS or HSU to the Epik, even though the John Mayer clip was absolutely amazing on the Epik. Problem is, I don't listen to John Mayer as my favorite type of music.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #49 of 553 Old 05-15-2011, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Do you prefer low bass or midbass?

The HSU can be a bit of both, the Epik is midbass, the SVS is low bass.

The difference between the Epik and SVS is about as much difference in my opinion as any two subs were on this list during the music demonstration. I myself prefer the SVS or HSU to the Epik, even though the John Mayer clip was absolutely amazing on the Epik. Problem is, I don't listen to John Mayer as my favorite type of music.

Well, I currently seem to be getting at least 20hz without a dropoff, in fact it sounds like I get some gain going from 25hz to 20hz and just wanted to be sure the empire could match it.
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post #50 of 553 Old 05-15-2011, 11:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by chirpie View Post

- For sh*ts and giggles, I hooked my sub back up again here at home tonight, left the gain where it was at during the meet, calibrated it to 6db hot, and replayed the scenes. I was seeing a +10db difference on the same scenes and nothing bottoming out to get it there. Craziness! ^_^

- I really think Danley Sound Labs should invent a sub called "The Archaea Room Killer"

I'll take two!

I hope that beautiful sub of yours made it home with no battle scars, I'm looking forward to the pictures, as are several others - I'm getting some PM requests for them.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #51 of 553 Old 05-15-2011, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Do you prefer low bass or midbass?

The HSU can be a bit of both, the Epik is midbass, the SVS is low bass.

The difference between the Epik and SVS is about as much difference in my opinion as any two subs were on this list during the music demonstration. I myself prefer the SVS or HSU to the Epik, even though the John Mayer clip was absolutely amazing on the Epik. Problem is, I don't listen to John Mayer as my favorite type of music.

Okay, read your commentary and it kinda was what I was afraid of on the sub 30hz movie experience....Damn, now I guess I will just have to save up for something else other than the empire.
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post #52 of 553 Old 05-15-2011, 11:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Okay, read your commentary and it kinda was what I was afraid of on the sub 30hz movie experience....Damn, now I guess I will just have to save up for something else other than the empire.

Take all of our opinions in total, I'm just one guy of 6 or 7 that reviewed these things making my opinion from one of 6 or 7 listening positions. It might be wise to wait until tomorrow night when I post the collective opinions. Like mentioned in my section, my friend echaot, the guy who owns the Jensen, said the Epik Empire was his favorite for price/preformance and the clear choice if he was to purchase a sub right now, and he said that to him he couldn't tell much difference between the Epik and the SVS. To me the difference was very dramatic between those two. In fact I said such when we went outside after that Epik audition as counsil setup for the Yamaha, that those two subs sounded dramatically diffferent.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #53 of 553 Old 05-16-2011, 12:34 AM
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Did the subs have dedicated circuits during the meet? Was it fair to the larger subs that require more power?

I'm just wondering because I wonder how a FW 18.0 would have measured up powered by a EP4000 or one of Notnyt's or Warpdrv's dual LMS 5400 drivers powered by an even more powerful amp.

It seems the JTR and the Seaton did pretty well.

When's the next meet? Maybe there can be some DIY subs next time.
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post #54 of 553 Old 05-16-2011, 12:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 96redformula View Post

Okay, read your commentary and it kinda was what I was afraid of on the sub 30hz movie experience....Damn, now I guess I will just have to save up for something else other than the empire.

Remember, the Empire is tuned to take advantage of a somewhat average level of room gain which it sounds like this room did not really offer. Tricky things, those rooms.
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post #55 of 553 Old 05-16-2011, 12:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by yelnatsch517 View Post

Did the subs have dedicated circuits during the meet? Was it fair to the larger subs that require more power?

I'm just wondering because I wonder how a FW 18.0 would have measured up powered by a EP4000 or one of Notnyt's or Warpdrv's dual LMS 5400 drivers powered by an even more powerful amp.

It seems the JTR and the Seaton did pretty well.

When's the next meet? Maybe there can be some DIY subs next time.

Every usable outlet in my room is on it's own seperate 20 amp circuit. I remodeled the room the last couple years and redid the electrical.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #56 of 553 Old 05-16-2011, 04:49 AM
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So what were the dimensions of your room btw? Any pics of it?

I was going to take a look at combining the various REW sweeps onto one graph for better comparisons, but from the comments it sounds like people were switching tuning modes and/or increasing/decreasing gains during the listening session to either try to get the sub to go into distress or vice versa?

Would have loved to see some close-mic graphs! Counsil - you posted "indoor ground plane" ... can you explain how you took these? Was it simply putting the mic on the ground 1M from the cone or something? The EPIK and HSU have odd FR's in that from 20hz to about 40 (before the huge dip/null) the results are 15db down from what they are from 60hz to 100ish, whereas the SVS, Seaton and JTR don't appear to vary as bady unless I'm reading this incorrectly.

Sounded like it was a ton of fun guys. Wish I could have been there.

 

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J Dunlavy:.. if you stop to think about it, no loudspeaker can sound more accurate than it measures.

 

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post #57 of 553 Old 05-16-2011, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlm9 View Post

Having owned twin Submersive HP's, twin PC-13 Ultra's, the HSU VTF 15, the current SVS PB13 with DSP and the Powered cap on order I have to shake my head when I hear the sealed Submersive can even keep up to a ported 18" driver and that it had more SPL's.

The Submersive's are an incredible subwoofer with very clean output but I don't remember them being SPL giants. For music they were top notch but I always preferred the ported SVS PC and PB13 Ultras for HT. What happened to the Captivator's 127db's I keep reading about? That is supposed to be with the optimum amp that was used in this test model.

Something doesn't sound right hear. I will wait to read more impressions as they come in. Thanks for posting the results, it sounds like you guys had fun. Thanks

I don't know how much you've read in the two threads, but it's been mentioned a few times that the "max" spls are not really "max" spls...stay with me here.

It appears the readings within the table were those taken after the respective owners set up their subs for measurement...and apparently some didn't feel comfortable going past "x" to arrive at or near max output levels.

Many who own a cap have already testified that it will go far beyond those posted SPL's from this past Saturday.

And while I do not doubt the Seaton is a top notch performer and perhaps even the finest all-around sub in this contest, I find it diffcult to believe that it can match the Cap's overall ouput.

Just a couple of inferences, please, anyone who was there correct me if I'm wrong.

thanks,
James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #58 of 553 Old 05-16-2011, 05:31 AM
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it's a shame the trinity couldn't make it

All this noise about noise.
♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫

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post #59 of 553 Old 05-16-2011, 05:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by counsil View Post

FWIW all subs were initially level matched to 75dB with the Onkyo's sub trim at -2.5. The Onkyo's sub trim was then raised to +3.5 so the subs would be running 6dB hot during the HT testing.

Jeff did increase the gain on the SubMersive's amp almost immediately after starting cause he felt we were being bombarded with highs (from the mains).

Do you mean the Cap, the Submersive, or both the Cap and Submersive? I was referring to the Cap.

thanks,
James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #60 of 553 Old 05-16-2011, 05:32 AM
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Also, that Yamaha should be able to play considerably louder than every other sub that was in the house. It was clearly not pushed to it's real max output.
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