2011 Kansas City Subwoofer Meet Results - Page 6 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #151 of 553 Old 05-16-2011, 08:30 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mastermaybe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,281
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 118 Post(s)
Liked: 172
I need to hit the hay here, but I'm simply not going to lose sleep over these numbers. They just don't seem to add up and many who were present seem to agree and have even offered potential explanations as to why (thanks btw)... I have enjoyed reading the commentary to be sure though.

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

mastermaybe is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #152 of 553 Old 05-16-2011, 08:32 PM
Member
 
sendtobrit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 105
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
It's a beast! I'm wondering if for some reason the cm-140 needs to be re-calibrated. I would test the one used, against something else and see if it is giving the correct numbers.
sendtobrit is offline  
post #153 of 553 Old 05-16-2011, 08:33 PM
otk
AVS Special Member
 
otk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,496
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
is the cap similar to the conquest?

18" ported sub

All this noise about noise.
♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫
Finding the acoustic sweet spot.
otk is offline  
post #154 of 553 Old 05-16-2011, 08:34 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mojomike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: South Florida
Posts: 6,966
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 27
I love these shoot-outs because they give us stuff to talk about. Bravo to the guys who did all the work!
mojomike is offline  
post #155 of 553 Old 05-16-2011, 08:45 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,631
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 297 Post(s)
Liked: 470
Quote:
Originally Posted by sendtobrit View Post

I'm a powered Cap owner and i hit 118db's in my room at a 13 feet distance!

At what frequency?
MKtheater is online now  
post #156 of 553 Old 05-16-2011, 08:51 PM
Advanced Member
 
vraxoin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 720
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by otk View Post

is the cap similar to the conquest?

18" ported sub

The Captivator 1000 would probably be the one to compare to the Conquest, but, yes, it is a large 18" ported sub.
vraxoin is offline  
post #157 of 553 Old 05-16-2011, 08:58 PM
AVS Special Member
 
carp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,424
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 512 Post(s)
Liked: 554
I'm finally turning up the Cap a bit just now after figuring out my amp (actually my) issue. The wife and kids are asleep so I can't go too nuts but my room is pretty isolated from the bedrooms. I've been listening to Dream Theater's Images and Words followed up by Awake.

I think I really am a bass-head. I checked the radio shack spl meter and with just the speakers on no sub I'm at 80-82db and with the sub on and no speakers I'm at 92-94db at my listening position. I'm sitting about 14 feet from the sub. Hardly any air coming out of the ports right now, hard to imagine how loud it's going to get in here to get the same amount of air it was putting out Archea's place.

I better turn it down some, I'll push it harder tomorrow.

Hmmm... I'm not sure if I should post my impressions here or in the Cap thread.
carp is online now  
post #158 of 553 Old 05-16-2011, 09:00 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mojomike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: South Florida
Posts: 6,966
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

I'm finally turning up the Cap a bit just now after figuring out my amp (actually my) issue. The wife and kids are asleep so I can't go too nuts but my room is pretty isolated from the bedrooms. I've been listening to Dream Theater's Images and Words followed up by Awake.

I think I really am a bass-head. I checked the radio shack spl meter and with just the speakers on no sub I'm at 80-82db and with the sub on and no speakers I'm at 92-94db at my listening position. I'm sitting about 14 feet from the sub. Hardly any air coming out of the ports right now, hard to imagine how loud it's going to get in here to get the same amount of air it was putting out Archea's place.

I better turn it down some, I'll push it harder tomorrow.

Hmmm... I'm not sure if I should post my impressions here or in the Cap thread.

That's material for the Cap thread.
mojomike is offline  
post #159 of 553 Old 05-16-2011, 09:02 PM
Advanced Member
 
vraxoin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 720
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Hmmm... I'm not sure if I should post my impressions here or in the Cap thread.

IMHO, post in the Cap thread and link to that post here. Then at least nobody will miss your thoughts if they are looking into the Cap.
vraxoin is offline  
post #160 of 553 Old 05-16-2011, 09:21 PM
Member
 
sendtobrit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 105
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

At what frequency?

I'm not sure i will have to hook up my omnimic and see! I just use my Galaxy
on c weight and slow.
sendtobrit is offline  
post #161 of 553 Old 05-16-2011, 11:29 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Archaea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 6,251
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 540 Post(s)
Liked: 778
The Final Music Ranking is now posted. It took me a long time to tabulate, because the scores are on a bunch of paper sheets and I tripple checked everything before I posted it to make sure I got it exactly right.

FINAL MUSIC RANKING:
The collective individual scores recorded and averaged during our testing revealed the subs ranked into the following order for finest overall music reproduction ability:
1. Seaton Submersive
2. JTR Captivator
3. HSU VTF-15H
4. Epik Empire
5. SVS PB-12+
6. Yamaha CW218V
7. Jamo D7sub
8. Jenson MS500

You can find all the original individual scores in the first page, and see what the individual strengths and weaknesses were for each sub. In some cases a sub might have a high or low overall rating, but have a noticable strength or weakness.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
Archaea's Theatre Room
2011 KC Sub Shootout
2012 KC Blind Sub Shootout
My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint
Archaea is online now  
post #162 of 553 Old 05-17-2011, 04:40 AM
pbc
AVS Special Member
 
pbc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 5,390
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by counsil View Post

And to be fair, SVS has since made several amp improvements, most especially with the new Sledge amp, that helps minimize the drivers from going into distress.

I think the new PB-Plus is an entirely new sub. New amp, new driver, new box design. That's why I mentioned Arch should note this up in the first thread...

 

My DIY Subs ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1233892

Quote:

J Dunlavy:.. if you stop to think about it, no loudspeaker can sound more accurate than it measures.

 

pbc is offline  
post #163 of 553 Old 05-17-2011, 05:34 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mastermaybe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,281
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 118 Post(s)
Liked: 172
Nice tabulation and chart, Archaea. Thanks.

Wow, could it be any closer between the Cap and Submersive?!

A 4 to a 5 (or vice versa) here or there over 100 points and we'd have a dead heat on our hands, lol. Really, out of the four critical areas only "smoothness" reveals a statistically significant difference. Wow again.

Now more than ever it appears like a blind test could really yield some dividends.

Just out of curiosity, was everyone aware that 1/2 point scores were possible (3.5, 4.5, etc)? I ask as it appears that just a scant few (6?) appear amongst the 168 individual scores.

Last, is it safe to say that the scores maintain an order...as in the "third" score within the given criteria throughout is the same person?

just a bit of a numbers guy...thanks!

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

mastermaybe is online now  
post #164 of 553 Old 05-17-2011, 06:35 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Archaea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 6,251
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 540 Post(s)
Liked: 778
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

Nice tabulation and chart, Archaea. Thanks.

Just out of curiosity, was everyone aware that 1/2 point scores were possible (3.5, 4.5, etc)? I ask as it appears that just a scant few (6?) appear amongst the 168 individual scores.

Perhaps not. Someone asked if we could increase the scoring to 1-10 at one point a few subs in and I said we should keep it 1-5, since we started that way. You are keen in observing it was difficult to give three subs a 4 for instance because in some cases you felt one sounded slightly better than a 4, but not quite "amazing" enough to earn a perfect five. We weren't supposed to be comparing them in this section but rather giving each sub it's unique and individual value for each of the four music qualities we chose to evaluate on. IE we said to the group up front that in this and the movie section every sub could be five across the list if the individual thought they all merited it. IE if the Jenson sounded great, and expressed no issues you could give it fives in those areas - even knowing that it would be destroyed by the captivator and submersive later. Still it's hard not to compare when you are hearing eight subs back to back. Hindsight is 20/20. Thus small differences in score should be understood to be well within a margin of judge scoring issues because we should have made it clear to all individuals about the half scores(which we did NOT talk about as a group), or we should have increased our scoring range to 10 or 20 points up front. That's a takeaway for the organizers of the next event.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

Last, is it safe to say that the scores maintain an order...as in the "third" score within the given criteria throughout is the same person?

just a bit of a numbers guy...thanks!

James


The last five numbers in each individual ranking can be read as a column and were made by the same individual in this section. The scoring sheets were decided to be left anonymous by the group, but if you start with the 2nd number in first two subs, and the 1st number in the last six subs you can read how one listner rated all subs (not in any particular chair order -- I didn't think to do that and I wouldn't be able to tell you this if I had thought of that). To make this simpler to understand, Chirpie will have to be called out on the table. He was only there for the first two or three subs (he had to leave for family responsibilities), and so he only ranked the first two (The Jenson and Jamo). So on the first reviews - his were the very first numbers in the sequence. I thought about removing his numbers altogether and just having five per sub and making it the same reviewers in each case, but since we agreed we shouldn't be ranking these subs against each other, but on individual preformance from the beginning I figured he's votes could stay put as they still showed his individual valid opinion. For the movies section something similar will occur. Randy had to leave early, and carp came in an picked up for him after his chair sat empty for a couple sub tests. So I'll have to clear it with them but I could do the same thing, put the non continous voter's votes as the very first number and then drop it into a random sequence again (to keep those of you too smart for you own britches at bay). Did that make sense?

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
Archaea's Theatre Room
2011 KC Sub Shootout
2012 KC Blind Sub Shootout
My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint
Archaea is online now  
post #165 of 553 Old 05-17-2011, 06:42 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mastermaybe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,281
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 118 Post(s)
Liked: 172
^ Umm, I think so.

So, as a quick example then, as far as the Cap goes, the same person (# 2 in the sequence of 5) scored the Cap 4, 4, 5, 4 starting from left to right? Counsil, lol???

I'm 95% sure we're on the same page.

I ask simply because of the nature of the small polling base. For example, the Captivator received 15 "perfect" scores out of 20, with 3 out of the 5 "4's" seemingly coming from the same source/respondent.

I'm not trying to beat this into the ground- I'm just a bit anal- so my apologies in advance.

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

mastermaybe is online now  
post #166 of 553 Old 05-17-2011, 06:58 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Archaea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 6,251
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 540 Post(s)
Liked: 778
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

^ Umm, I think so.

So, as a quick example then, as far as the Cap goes, the same person (# 2 in the sequence of 5) scored the Cap 4, 4, 5, 4 starting from left to right? Counsil, lol???

I'm 95% sure we're on the same page.

I ask simply because of the nature of the small polling base. For example, the Captivator received 15 "perfect" scores out of 20, with 3 out of the 5 "4's" seemingly coming from the same source/respondent.

I'm not trying to beat this into the ground- I'm just a bit anal- so my apologies in advance.

James

I won't confirm the identity of that voter, but yes you are correct - one individual voted that way. That does not make that one individual's votes invalid. He has as valid an opinion as everyone else as he heard the subs from his listening position. I didn't see any scoring sheets that would suggest any type of "agenda" in compiling the lists. Remember this is just the music section. The movies section has not been tabulated yet. I can't figure out a good way to do the tabulation in excel directly so this process is way more time consuming than it should be.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
Archaea's Theatre Room
2011 KC Sub Shootout
2012 KC Blind Sub Shootout
My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint
Archaea is online now  
post #167 of 553 Old 05-17-2011, 07:17 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mastermaybe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,281
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 118 Post(s)
Liked: 172
I am by no means suggesting his votes are invalid. I'm merely seeking to understand how the data is compiled to gain a better understanding.

thank you for the clarification and your effort, I think the SS turned out just fine and look forward to the "movies" section.

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

mastermaybe is online now  
post #168 of 553 Old 05-17-2011, 09:58 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
counsil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kansas City, Missouri
Posts: 1,979
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

So, as a quick example then, as far as the Cap goes, the same person (# 2 in the sequence of 5) scored the Cap 4, 4, 5, 4 starting from left to right? Counsil, lol???

I can't remember what I voted. Did I do something wrong in my voting?

I do remember that I thought the Captivator and SubMersive were the top dogs in Music (both Music and HT actually). Just read my comments under Music.

I didn't vote at all for HT. I was too busy looking at my SPL meter. I didn't have time to put down scores.

Never argue with an idiot; they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Counsil Basement HT
counsil is offline  
post #169 of 553 Old 05-17-2011, 10:14 AM
AVS Special Member
 
carp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,424
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 512 Post(s)
Liked: 554
Quote:
Originally Posted by counsil View Post

Just so everyone knows, I have asked Randy if would be willing to have another 'mini' shootout between one of my PB13 Ultras and his SubMersive. I have also asked Ed Mullen if he would be willing to ship me an updated Sledge amp for the comparison. As I mentioned at the meet, I would have brought a PB13U had I have known the PC13U wasn't going to be there.

What do you guys think. Is it even worth comparing the two?

I would be very curious about this. I haven't seen these 2 compared but they have long been highly regarded. Yeah, it's too bad you didn't bring on of yours to the meet. It would have been worth the extra time I think.
carp is online now  
post #170 of 553 Old 05-17-2011, 10:34 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Archaea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 6,251
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 540 Post(s)
Liked: 778
If we host another mini event perhaps some of the same guys that attended this even could rejoin for the voting (Not necessarily bringing their subs). We could possibly include a couple of the guys with the other high end equipment from our planning thread, that couldn't make it to the May 14th date. Then some of the guys who attended the first event could add some valuable subjective comments as well having heard the subs in the same room on the same equipment.

The date was enjoyable and I sure don't mind hosting again.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
Archaea's Theatre Room
2011 KC Sub Shootout
2012 KC Blind Sub Shootout
My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint
Archaea is online now  
post #171 of 553 Old 05-17-2011, 10:38 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Luke Kamp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 1,175
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 112
A few more points I have come across that I thought I would share.

1. The different orientation of drivers (side-firing, front firing...) would affect how the room is loaded, and how the room responds to that loading.

2. A sub woofer that holds flat frequency response until it can't go higher, will have different max output readings to those that can still rise in output in other areas. Makes movie scenes not a good scope of max output.

3. DSP is setup to protect driver... If it is limiting low end excursion and not higher frequency bass it can increase output higher in frequency response...

Just a few things to keep the discussion going!
Luke Kamp is offline  
post #172 of 553 Old 05-17-2011, 11:00 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Archaea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 6,251
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 540 Post(s)
Liked: 778
Quote:
Originally Posted by counsil View Post

Actually Jeff increased the gain on both which wasn't done on any of the subs before it. Jeff didn't want to bombard us with highs.

Not quite true, I did it on my yamaha during the movie section...I turned the amp gain from about 1/4 to about 3/4 before we started the movie clips because I didn't think I had the ability even to begin to push those subs into the hurt locker. (that amp gain boost on the V3000 amp was in addition to the +6dB we had bumped up the receiver for eveyone's tests). I don't think my hap hazard idea worked in my favor for the movie scenes. I'll hold my tongue from here because it's worthless to make guesswork and speculation comments. I will say this after running audessey last night on the yamaha with the amp gain knocked back down to about 2/5's, audessey calibrated the sub level to -5.5dB. I then bumped the subwoofer level up from audessey's auto calibrated -5.5 to -1 making it + 4.5 dB hotter than reference (I like a bit more bass than Audessey likes). At that point those yamaha's were pounding. This was more like the exciting sound I heard when I first hooked them up and called Luke gushing about how awesome it was to feel that level of sound in my room! I was listening to those music clips last night at +5 dB from reference on the receiver without a hint of distortion at the 2/5's amp gain. I sure couldn't do that at the meet. Granted Music vs. Movies, and I didn't watch any movies last night, but gosh darn those things were loud! During this time 2 to 2/1/2 lights lit up out of four (fifth light is the clipping light) on the V3000 amp. They don't go low but they sure do go loud. I'd be interested to let counsil and Luke and whoever, hear them again with their current calibration and see what they think. They still aren't my favorite subs, not deep enough by any means, and volume doesn't really overcome those limitations in my opinion after hearing such amazing subs as the JTR captivator and the Seaton Submersive -- which are just incredibly better, but then at $729 shipped, I don't think you could get much louder for music --- if loud and cheap and big is your thing. :P I bet they are putting up some SPL meters that would uptick from those numbers we showed in the movie scenes -- at least in the music section! I'm back to having my ears hurt after listening to these things last night, and my ears were finally feeling better yesterday afternoon from the meet's abuse.

I'll probably still return them, as I've said before - I like low, ported, and loud -- the yammies are only two of my three favorite things -- but I figured this little tidbit of info after a couple more days of owning the subs and playing with the calibration might be worth an update for anyone interested in the Yamaha setup.

BTW Chirpie,

Per your point. I moved two of the middle berklines and put the yamaha sub on the floor standing up where the berklines were and walked around the room. I don't have an SPL meter but I heard no particular hotspot to which would indicate a good place to put the subs to help the seating position sound best. I repositioned the subs at a different facing and tried again. No hotspots. I put the Yamaha's in the front right corner and tried all manner of directional facing. It did make bass hotspots, primarily in the opposite corner the subs were facing, but not in the right places for my seating arrangements and that placement seemed to make an audible null on either end of the seating row. I think I'm forced to have the subs underneath the screen to have the best sound spread across the four primary seating locations, but I can tell that's not the best place because three feet before the seating position and 3/4 the way back into the room both sound better than the actual seating position. My room sucks for sub placement!

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
Archaea's Theatre Room
2011 KC Sub Shootout
2012 KC Blind Sub Shootout
My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint
Archaea is online now  
post #173 of 553 Old 05-17-2011, 11:09 AM
Member
 
energyfun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: middle america
Posts: 168
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Depending on the date (have to work some weekends) I'd be up for it as am envious of all you guys who made it. I'll keep checking the thread or Archaea can pm me.
Really impressed with all the work you guys put into this meet and the very useful comments you have included which paints a good picture for those of us not there as like many have mentioned we all have our own tastes so even subs aren't a one size fits all. Echo everyone's thanks for your efforts.
Greg
energyfun is offline  
post #174 of 553 Old 05-17-2011, 11:22 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Archaea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 6,251
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 540 Post(s)
Liked: 778
Quote:
Originally Posted by chirpie View Post

For sh*ts and giggles, I hooked my sub back up again here at home tonight, left the gain where it was at during the meet, calibrated it to 6db hot, and replayed the scenes. I was seeing a +10db difference on the same scenes and nothing bottoming out to get it there. Craziness! ^_^

How is this possible? I was thinking about this last night and I don't understand?!?!

I can understand my room not letting the SPL's be registering as high because of accoustics and wall vibration cancellation as Jeff suggested and we've more or less accepted as a rational reason, but why would the SVS be able to take the same power and not bottom out at your place? At first I was thinking maybe Chirpie's room is better sealed, perhaps carpet under the door, or better, more solid, wall structure so the driver can't compress the air quite as well, but then realistically every home has HVAC, and therefore no room could be actually sealed to the point it would make enough difference to totally bottom out a sub in one room and then be able to playback at the same or even increased levels in a different room without bottoming out?

I'm bewildered by this. I think I'm going to change my signature to "My entire home theatre room is a null"

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
Archaea's Theatre Room
2011 KC Sub Shootout
2012 KC Blind Sub Shootout
My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint
Archaea is online now  
post #175 of 553 Old 05-17-2011, 11:23 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Randy Bessinger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,314
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked: 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

I would be very curious about this. I haven't seen these 2 compared but they have long been highly regarded. Yeah, it's too bad you didn't bring on of yours to the meet. It would have been worth the extra time I think.

I let him know that is fine as long as timing works and I get some help with sub. I may see if others want to do the scoring as I would like to sit out the review part.
Randy Bessinger is offline  
post #176 of 553 Old 05-17-2011, 11:36 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mastermaybe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,281
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 118 Post(s)
Liked: 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by counsil View Post

I can't remember what I voted. Did I do something wrong in my voting?

I do remember that I thought the Captivator and SubMersive were the top dogs in Music (both Music and HT actually). Just read my comments under Music.

I didn't vote at all for HT. I was too busy looking at my SPL meter. I didn't have time to put down scores.

I was just kidding around, IIRC I think you mentioned something about being "really disappointed" with the Cap at some point in your comments so I figured if anyone gave it 3 out of the 5 "4's", it was you.



James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

mastermaybe is online now  
post #177 of 553 Old 05-17-2011, 11:44 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
counsil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kansas City, Missouri
Posts: 1,979
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

I was just kidding around, IIRC I think you mentioned something about being "really disappointed" with the Cap so I figure if anyone gave it 3 out of the 5 "4's", it was you.



James

I can't remember exactly how I voted, but had I have known folks were giving 4.5s I would have been giving them as well. I reserved 5s for the best of the best.

Never argue with an idiot; they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Counsil Basement HT
counsil is offline  
post #178 of 553 Old 05-17-2011, 11:47 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mastermaybe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,281
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 118 Post(s)
Liked: 172
^ Yeah, again, I don't want to appear like I'm trying to make a big deal out of this, cause I'm really not. I appreciate the subjective comments more than anything.

Regardless of where the points fall, I think it's pretty clear how these subs compare to one another through the comments, which is all any reasonable person could ask for.

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

mastermaybe is online now  
post #179 of 553 Old 05-17-2011, 12:29 PM
AVS Special Member
 
chirpie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Olathe, Kansas
Posts: 3,587
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

How is this possible? I was thinking about this last night and I don't understand?!?!

Try to remember that even though I ran the sub hot, I didn't have to push the rest of the system's levels as high to get it to those higher spl levels for the bass. The rest of the system played quieter as a result as well. That's why I typed "to get it there." When I dial my sub in to match the mains, my L & R are at +3 and my sub is at -6. (Surrounds are at 0 and surround backs are at +1.5) Even if I set the sub at -3 (that's my favorite spot for running it hot) I usually have way more headroom.

I'm not kidding when I say I get 10dbs more just because of the room. If you like, swing by sometime, I'll play some scenes from Tron, and you tell me if the bass sounds louder. :-) My back row is too close to the back of the room, so if you REALLY like elevated bass levels, sit there. :-)

It would be hilarious to see what a Cap or Submersive would do in my room. Normally I don't worry about the glasses on the bar wall for the adjacent room (staggered studs and double dry wall with green glue) but I might in a situation like that. ^_^
chirpie is offline  
post #180 of 553 Old 05-17-2011, 12:43 PM
AVS Special Member
 
chirpie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Olathe, Kansas
Posts: 3,587
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

At first I was thinking maybe Chirpie's room is better sealed, perhaps carpet under the door, or better, more solid, wall structure so the driver can't compress the air quite as well...

My room is pretty close to sealed. 3/4"&1/2" double drywall all around, sealed lights, exterior door with weather striping. Everything is screwed and glued w/ liquid nails. The only way in and out for air is the hvac. But even with the door open to the room, I don't loose SPL even close to those numbers.

It's good you tried sub positioning, at least you know what you can rule out. You've got a puzzle for sure.
chirpie is offline  
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off