Subwoofer Volume Question - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 20 Old 05-15-2011, 07:11 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm new to Home Theatre and have a question about subs. I just bought a Definitive Technology Supercube 2000 (much like the SCIII) and find that I can only turn up the volume on the sub to about 1 out of 10, if that, before the bass becomes too much. This seems odd to me...is it? The room's about 20x8, with the tv on the long wall.
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post #2 of 20 Old 05-15-2011, 07:37 AM
 
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That is a strong sub...but...

What db is your receiver setting?
What is your receiver/amp?
What other speakers are you using it with?
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post #3 of 20 Old 05-15-2011, 07:40 AM
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This is where you need to set the volume:


Television: Mitsubishi WD65737 DLP
Processor: Emotiva UMC-200
Amps: Carver AV 806x/Behringer EP4000
Mains: DCM TimeFrame 600 Center: AT 453C
Surrounds: AT 251.1 Sub: Danley DTS-10
Blu Ray: Panasonic DMP-BD655
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post #4 of 20 Old 05-15-2011, 07:44 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm using a Denon 1912 receiver, Monitor Audio RX6 Silver Towers and Centre. I'm not sure about db settings, but when I look at specs for the Denon, it says S/N: 100db...is that what you mean?
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post #5 of 20 Old 05-15-2011, 07:54 AM
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We are talking about the subwoofer trim level in the receiver. It should be as close to 0 as possible.
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post #6 of 20 Old 05-15-2011, 08:12 AM - Thread Starter
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There is no trim level adjustment in my menu. Perhaps this is an Audissey issue? When I did the calibration, Aud. indicated my front speakers were small for some reason. Before I had the sub, Aud righlty indicated large speakers. In the Denon manual, I get the following info about LFE settings, which I can choose (It's set to LFE right now):

LFE : The low range signal of the channel set to Small speaker size is
added to the LFE signal output from the subwoofer.
LFE+Main : The low range signal of all channels is added to the LFE
signal output from the subwoofer.

Subwoofer Mode can be set when Speaker Config. - Subwoofer
(vpage 83) is set to Yes.

Play music or a movie source and select the mode offering the strongest
bass.
Select LFE+Main if you want the bass signals to always be produced
from the subwoofer.

NOTE
If Front and Center for Speaker Config. are set to Large, and
Subwoofer Mode is set to LFE, no sound may be output from the
subwoofers, depending on the input signal or selected surround mode.
LPF for LFE : Set LFE signal playback range. Set this when you want to
change the playback frequency of the subwoofer.

80Hz / 90Hz / 100Hz / 110Hz / 120Hz / 150Hz / 200Hz / 250Hz
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post #7 of 20 Old 05-15-2011, 08:27 AM
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The setting should be in the set up area. I'm not 100% sure where on a Denon. It's often labeled as level calibration or speaker trim levels. This trim level is usually available for all speakers. Not just the sub. Audyssey does set this in the auto calibration. A lot of times if you have the subwoofers gain down really low the trim level in the receiver will be boosted. Often +7 or more. You don't want that. You need the receiver at 0 and adjust the subs gain to get 75db or 80db with an SPL meter at your listening position.
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post #8 of 20 Old 05-15-2011, 09:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, I'll look into it.
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post #9 of 20 Old 05-15-2011, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coyoteblue View Post

There is no trim level adjustment in my menu. Perhaps this is an Audissey issue? When I did the calibration, Aud. indicated my front speakers were small for some reason. Before I had the sub, Aud righlty indicated large speakers. In the Denon manual, I get the following info about LFE settings, which I can choose (It's set to LFE right now):

LFE : The low range signal of the channel set to Small speaker size is
added to the LFE signal output from the subwoofer.
LFE+Main : The low range signal of all channels is added to the LFE
signal output from the subwoofer.

Subwoofer Mode can be set when Speaker Config. - Subwoofer
(vpage 83) is set to Yes.

Play music or a movie source and select the mode offering the strongest
bass.
Select LFE+Main if you want the bass signals to always be produced
from the subwoofer.

NOTE
If Front and Center for Speaker Config. are set to Large, and
Subwoofer Mode is set to LFE, no sound may be output from the
subwoofers, depending on the input signal or selected surround mode.
LPF for LFE : Set LFE signal playback range. Set this when you want to
change the playback frequency of the subwoofer.

80Hz / 90Hz / 100Hz / 110Hz / 120Hz / 150Hz / 200Hz / 250Hz

Those speakers should be set to small. It has nothing to do with the physical size of the speaker..but rather the ability of the speaker to play to certain levels cleanly without distortion. Your subwoofer can easily play those frequencies without the distortion and added stress put on your equipment by having your towers try to produce them.
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post #10 of 20 Old 05-15-2011, 10:04 AM
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Run audyssey again to get back to basics...if you have audyssey multeq or above then set your sub volume go 75db according to the audyssey setup. Change all your speakers to small. Do not adjust any distances even if the sub is way off by more than 10th even. Change your crossovers to 80hz for the front left and center. 90hz for the rear. These can be changed after depending how much you want to go to the sub.
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post #11 of 20 Old 05-15-2011, 10:09 AM
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You may even be able to Change your crossover to 60 considering your speakers. You need to read the audyssey setup guide becuz it is all listed in there.
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post #12 of 20 Old 05-15-2011, 10:22 AM
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Yeah, experimenting with the crossover should help. And using and SPL meter.
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post #13 of 20 Old 05-15-2011, 12:48 PM - Thread Starter
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I recalibrated with Audissey, after reading the guide, and the sub sounds more integrated. Now I get the following readings:

FL -5 db
FR -5 db
C - -5 db
Sub - 12db

Crossover Check

FR - 40
C -40

Sub Crossover -40

LFE - 0

LFP for LFE - 100Hz

Cinema EQ - Off
Dynamic EQ - ON
Reference Offset - 0db

Oddly the distance recorded for the Centre is shown as a foot closer than the Sub, though they're roughly the same difference. Since the receiver's compensating so much for the sub, should I redo Audissey but with the sub volume lower? It was roughly half way up, as suggested.

I'll try moving the Sub crossover to 60(or 80), which makes sense for my fronts which, I just checked, have a bottom range of 38 Mhz. I guess I should I do the same for the Fronts and Centre? But then why did Audissey set them at 40?!

Thanks!
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post #14 of 20 Old 05-15-2011, 12:56 PM
 
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You need to raise the volume on the sub itself(it has a volume knob) to at least half, maybe 2/3.

Re-run your Audyssey. If you have to, after Audyssey is done, move the subwooofer to 80hz, but leave the other five wherever Aud puts them.

Matter of fact, if it were me, I'd ignore Aud altogether.

Find out what the LOWEST Hz your other 5 can achieve, and set the crossover "with-in" 10hz higher (meaning if 53hz, set 60...if 64hz, set 70).
Set the subwoofer crossover at 80hz, no matter what.

Then with a simple SPL meter($40-$60) you can find the "real" volume rather than what you think. Run the test tone to all 6 individually to match the same level in the SPL from all 5 speakers and sub.

Edit...take my "don't use Aud" with a grain of salt. I don't like ANY auto correct software. I prefer to do it myself. With online resources, and a SPL meter, you can get better results.
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post #15 of 20 Old 05-15-2011, 12:58 PM - Thread Starter
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I did run the sub at half way when I did this calibration, but I'll try again. Why 80 for the crossover instead of 60?
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post #16 of 20 Old 05-15-2011, 01:52 PM
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Try again and turn sub volume to 10 oclock position. Re-run audyssey until it gets the sub in between -3 and +3. (this gives you the most of work with at the end. Your receiver may be maxing out at -12. im not sure about your model. Make sure that you use all 6 or 8 positions that audyssey allows. Do not change the sub distance if it is further set than it actually is because this has to do with the delay to get the sound to your ears. A sub that size should be accurate from my experience. Always set LPF of LFE to 120hz. That has nothing to do with the sub crossover and has more to do with reference LFE at the time of recording.
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post #17 of 20 Old 05-15-2011, 02:04 PM
 
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Why 80hz instead of 60hz...

Most dedicated 5.1 sources have 80hz as their guideline. You could set your sub at 40hz(I wouldn't go lower than the "highest" of the other 5) and when the .1 info is greater than the 40hz you have it set...the bass management sends it equally to the other 5 speakers that can handle it

So, 80hz is "ideal" for a sub as that is the highest frequencies that cannot be located(as in you can't tell where they came from).

What I mean by "highest of the other 5"...

If your fronts reach 40hz(therefor the crossover is there...)
Your center reaches 100hz
your rears reach 90hz...

You "could" set your sub at 100hz, but I wouldn't...cause then you could localize the sub. Set it for 80hz. Rear info is hardly existent in movies below 100hz(there are exceptions). And center info is hardly ever under 120hz(again there are exceptions).

On Onkyo/Integra the "lowest" subwoofer crossover is typically 80hz anyway.
Also, when you run set-up in an Onkyo/Integra, many models won't confuse you by asking if you want large or not. The speaker is simply "small" if you choose a crossover for it...

so in Onkyo, the 5 speaker settings are...

Large/40/50/60/80/100(and so on)

Subwoofer
Off/80/90/100(and so on)
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post #18 of 20 Old 05-15-2011, 02:27 PM
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The reason i set for 80 yet my speakers rolloff is 58hz is because i just think it sounds better. I had set at 60hz for a while but i watch a lot of action movies and i like letting the sub do all the low end work. I like the way it sounds under 80hz. I was saying start at 80 and see how it is since that is usually the most widely used starting point. After that you can experiement with turning it down to 70, 60 and maybe 50. I would not go much lower than 50 to allow room for rolloff which may occur above the 38hz level spec'd for your speakers. I heard a mans voice in the center channel is 135 hz so you rarely have to worry where you place that. As long as you never change the crossover to higher than audyssey had previously set it, you will be fine.
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post #19 of 20 Old 05-15-2011, 04:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all your help.
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post #20 of 20 Old 05-15-2011, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

This is where you need to set the volume:


Hey, I think amp volumes only go up to 10. That one must be defective

"But this one goes up to 11"
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