Help! Sub choice for under $900: Rythmik vs Hsu vs Epik (yet again) - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 96 Old 05-27-2011, 08:24 PM
 
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Originally Posted by benclement11 View Post

uhhhhh....how do you figure that isn't a truck bed liner finish? It looks exactly like truck bed lining. My point is...if you want a nice finish...the sub costs just as much as the competitors. I'm a little tired of the bang for buck argument. It isn't any cheaper unless you get that ugly matte finish. Yes Purevils subs look nice. They cost just as much as the competitors sub.
I'm not saying that it isn't a good sub. Let's stop pretending they are this huge bargain and you're saving sooooo much money. Lots of manufactures give you price breaks when you buy multiples. You two make me feel like I've taken crazy pills.

So show me a better deal on an 18" sealed sub........
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post #62 of 96 Old 05-27-2011, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by tesseract67 View Post

Where did this figure come from? Seems like you've added at least 35 lbs. Info I get says 140lbs. shipped.

Yeah, that shows to his credibility right? Shipping weight is 140lbs. I'd imagine that that it probably weighs closer to 130. Which still makes it a heft sub. But, 165 pounds? Come on dude? Next he'll be trying to convince us that it grabs him beers from the fridge.

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post #63 of 96 Old 05-27-2011, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by floridapoolboy View Post

So show me a better deal on an 18" sealed sub........

why does it have to be an 18" sub? You don't think a 15" sub in the same price category can outperform it?

The F15SE costs $1099 plus shipping
An ED in gloss black costs $1020 plus shipping.

Is the ED that much better? How do you know? I'm not saying it is. I'm not saying it isn't. BUT, I bet there isn't that big of a difference. I'd be willing to bet that the Rythmik sounds cleaner. I also like the look of the Rythmik more than the ED. I'd be happy with either sub...but come on dude. If it was such a killer deal, everyone would buy an ED.

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post #64 of 96 Old 05-27-2011, 08:27 PM
 
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IDK, let's see what ya got...
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post #65 of 96 Old 05-27-2011, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by floridapoolboy View Post

This recently posted picture of a stock A7S-450 looks pretty nice to me! http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/t...o/IMG_9573.jpg

No truck bedliner there, just a nicely finished sub, recessed driver, powerful amp, and sweet price!

If you need two, they are even less!

You should get a couple of them, they would blow your little 12" subs away!

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post #66 of 96 Old 05-27-2011, 08:35 PM
 
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Originally Posted by benclement11 View Post

why does it have to be an 18" sub? You don't think a 15" sub in the same price category can outperform it?

The F15SE costs $1099 plus shipping
An ED in gloss black costs $1020 plus shipping.

Is the ED that much better? How do you know? I'm not saying it is. I'm not saying it isn't. BUT, I bet there isn't that big of a difference. I'd be willing to bet that the Rythmik sounds cleaner. I also like the look of the Rythmik more than the ED. I'd be happy with either sub...but come on dude. If it was such a killer deal, everyone would buy an ED.


The eD is $850 shipped. Two of them are $1600 shipped.... big savings there. If there isn't that big of a difference as you say, I'd go for twin eD A7S-450s.. in fact, I've been thinking of doing just that!
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post #67 of 96 Old 05-27-2011, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by benclement11 View Post

Yeah, that shows to his credibility right? Shipping weight is 140lbs. I'd imagine that that it probably weighs closer to 130. Which still makes it a heft sub. But, 165 pounds? Come on dude? Next he'll be trying to convince us that it grabs him beers from the fridge.

PureEvil also claims that Baltic Birch is a poor choice for sub enclosures.

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post #68 of 96 Old 05-27-2011, 08:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by tesseract67 View Post

You should get a couple of them, they would blow your little 12" subs away!

"Little 12" subs"?

Sound And Vision said:

..is a true rock and roll subwoofer
..it plays loud and it goes fairly deep
..with enough power to rattle the room
..was our dollars-to dB champ

An independent third party reviewer had this to say about a pair of LFM-1EX subs:

..the Outlaws are rocking the house totally
..these guys can SHAKE a room
..these are one excellent product


It was based on the pro review and the independent third party glowing review that I decided to purchase my Outlaw subs. Oh yeah, care to guess who the third party reviewer was?..........wait for it..........he went by the forum name of Craigsub!
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post #69 of 96 Old 05-27-2011, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by floridapoolboy View Post

"Little 12" subs"?

Sound And Vision said:

..is a true rock and roll subwoofer
..it plays loud and it goes fairly deep
..with enough power to rattle the room
..was our dollars-to dB champ

An independent third party reviewer had this to say about a pair of LFM-1EX subs:

..the Outlaws are rocking the house totally
..these guys can SHAKE a room
..these are one excellent product

I am sure your little 12's are fine, they just can't run with the big dogs we are discussing here.

Quote:


It was based on the pro review and the independent third party glowing review that I decided to purchase my Outlaw subs. Oh yeah, care to guess who the third party reviewer was?..........wait for it..........he went by the forum name of Craigsub!

The irony here is just too much! If you like the Outlaws, imagine what the same third party reviewer's (craigsub) dual 18's sound like. Imagine is all you can do until you actually get a pair and listen to them.

It would be interesting to see which subs you preferred in a blind shootout, FPB. I bet the CraigSub, eD, or Rythmik would pound the cr*p out of your subs, sorry.

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post #70 of 96 Old 05-27-2011, 09:02 PM
 
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Originally Posted by tesseract67 View Post

I am sure your little 12's are fine, they just can't run with the big dogs we are discussing here.



The irony here is just too much! If you like the Outlaws, imagine what the same third party reviewer's (craigsub) dual 18's sound like. Imagine is all you can do until you actually get a pair and listen to them.

It would be interesting to see which subs you preferred in a blind shootout, FPB.

Dude, I just crushed you! Your boss LOVED my subs!! Unfortunately I won't be buying any of his, there are just too many better deals out there, IMO. Sorry!
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post #71 of 96 Old 05-27-2011, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by floridapoolboy View Post

Dude, I just crushed you! Your boss LOVED my subs!! Unfortunately I won't be buying any of his, there are just too many better deals out there, IMO. Sorry!

If it is such a great deal that can't be matched. Why haven't you sprung for one? I bet it is a good sub, but I went with the F15 SE. I went with the sub because:
It wasn't much more than an ED in the same finish
The sound quality is supposed to be second to NONE in the same price range.
I like servo designed subs.
ED has been know to have quality control issues.
Pureevil likes ED.



You also keep going back to the $850 price. That sub has the truck bed liner finish. It is ugly. Unless the sub is hidden behind a screen, I would not put it on display in my house.

AND, if sub "A" is better than sub "B" I'm willing to spend the extra money. If sub A is nicer looking than sub B, I'm willing to spend the extra money. We aren't talking about a huge savings here when we compare the exact same finishes.... couple hundred. I had it to spend. If you have $1600 in the bank and you want 2 subs...then yeah, ED is the way to go.

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post #72 of 96 Old 05-27-2011, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floridapoolboy View Post

"Little 12" subs"?

Sound And Vision said:

..is a true rock and roll subwoofer
..it plays loud and it goes fairly deep
..with enough power to rattle the room
..was our dollars-to dB champ

An independent third party reviewer had this to say about a pair of LFM-1EX subs:

..the Outlaws are rocking the house totally
..these guys can SHAKE a room
..these are one excellent product


It was based on the pro review and the independent third party glowing review that I decided to purchase my Outlaw subs. Oh yeah, care to guess who the third party reviewer was?..........wait for it..........he went by the forum name of Craigsub!

So wait a minute... you're so obsessed with 3rd party reviews, that you bought a sub based off of a 3rd party review from a guy whose sub you will not buy? You trust his opinion so much that you'll buy a sub based off of his review of it, but you won't buy a sub from this same guy who's opinion you value so much?

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post #73 of 96 Old 05-27-2011, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by yadfgp View Post

So wait a minute... you're so obsessed with 3rd party reviews, that you bought a sub based off of a 3rd party review from a guy whose sub you will not buy? You trust his opinion so much that you'll buy a sub based off of his review of it, but you won't buy a sub from this same guy who's opinion you value so much?

The funny thing about that is the CHT 18.1 is at the same price point and I have read in a few reviews, shootouts and GTGs that its a better overall sub than the A7s. It goes as loud, a bit deeper and is more musical as well. Its uglier than the A7s imo but that aside, if I only had $875 to spend on a single sub I would choose the 18.1 over the A7s after reading the many reviews here and on other audio forums.
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post #74 of 96 Old 05-27-2011, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by floridapoolboy View Post

Dude, I just crushed you! Your boss LOVED my subs!! Unfortunately I won't be buying any of his, there are just too many better deals out there, IMO. Sorry!

1. Can you back this up with some in room measurements? It would be nice to put some numbers to your subjective impressions.

2. Craig is not my boss. I am a volunteer on his site, I do it for love of the hobby and respect for what he is doing for the audio community.

3. As far as "deals" I would say that is relative. Many hobbyists would take exception to your ideal of a bargain sub. We wouldn't be having this discussion if you could just state your view as opinion, rather than emphatically insist your view is fact... in thread after thread.

4. You left out (intentionally?) the most important part of my quote: "It would be interesting to see which subs you preferred in a blind shootout, FPB. I bet the CraigSub, eD, or Rythmik would pound the cr*p out of your subs, sorry."

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post #75 of 96 Old 05-27-2011, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by MasonS View Post

The funny thing about that is the CHT 18.1 is at the same price point and I have read in a few reviews, shootouts and GTGs that its a better overall sub than the A7s. It goes as loud, a bit deeper and is more musical as well. Its uglier than the A7s imo but that aside, if I only had $875 to spend on a single sub I would choose the 18.1 over the A7s after reading the many reviews here and on other audio forums.

Same here. If anyone can recall over the last year or so, how much I've obsessed over whether I should buy a CHT sub or the A7S-450. In the end though, I've settled on CHT subs. There was some minor hiccups at first when the company got started up, but that happens with pretty much everybody. The latest versions of his subs look great in my opinion. And the overwhelmingly positive reviews they keep getting are what sold me over. All I'm waiting for now is for the new CHT VS ported subs to come out. Which should be within the next couple of weeks or so. Once they do I'll finally be able to kick my MFW's to the curb.

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post #76 of 96 Old 05-27-2011, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by yadfgp View Post

Same here. If anyone can recall over the last year or so, how much I've obsessed over whether I should buy a CHT sub or the A7S-450. In the end though, I've settled on CHT subs. There was some minor hiccups at first when the company got started up, but that happens with pretty much everybody. The latest versions of his subs look great in my opinion. And the overwhelmingly positive reviews they keep getting are what sold me over. All I'm waiting for now is for the new CHT VS ported subs to come out. Which should be within the next couple of weeks or so. Once they do I'll finally be able to kick my MFW's to the curb.

I didn't know he was making a ported sub. I'm looking forward to seeing what it looks like. Someone on this forum needs to win the lottery, buy all the subs we fight over and spend months testing and retesting them. I know below90hz and his bro did a great test. But still, people were not satisfied. If someone had the time and equipment to run every test imaginable, we could put this all to bed. It would be sweet to be a multi millionaire and buy every single sub in all the major ID companies line-ups. Dream a little dream with me.

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post #77 of 96 Old 05-27-2011, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by benclement11 View Post

I didn't know he was making a ported sub. I'm looking forward to seeing what it looks like. Someone on this forum needs to win the lottery, buy all the subs we fight over and spend months testing and retesting them. I know below90hz and his bro did a great test. But still, people were not satisfied. If someone had the time and equipment to run every test imaginable, we could put this all to bed. It would be sweet to be a multi millionaire and buy every single sub in all the major ID companies line-ups. Dream a little dream with me.

Oh I have also had this dream, it would have made my choice sooooo much easier had I had a list like that. Plus how awesome would it be to hear all these subs in action :drool:
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post #78 of 96 Old 05-27-2011, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by MasonS View Post

Oh I have also had this dream, it would have made my choice sooooo much easier had I had a list like that. Plus how awesome would it be to hear all these subs in action :drool:

Well for $42,358(added $100 for shipping on each sub except ED) you can own every sub made by Rythmik, SVS( excluding the ugly azz cylinder subs), HSU, ED, Epik, Chase Home Theater, and Seaton Sound. That seems pretty reasonable if I had a few mill. in the bank.

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post #79 of 96 Old 05-27-2011, 11:52 PM
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We know Michael Duxter, you have heard every sub. ED is the best for the money. But, that doesn't mean it is the best. I'd put a F15 or F15HP up against your ED and maybe to some people the difference in performance(whatever that difference is) is worth the extra money. "For the money" is only key if you are trying to make "bang for buck" which has nothing to do with "A" is better than "B".
When did you hear a CHT 18.2? I'm surprised you traded a Submersive in for an ED...unless you heard someone else's sub.

Lets not forget that if you want anything other than a truck bed liner finish... you have to pay more, which puts you right in line with the brands that compete with it on performance and price. That knocks a little hold in your "bang for buck" argument. I don't doubt that it may be the best sub you have heard at its price point. BUT, there are a lot of good subs missing from that list of yours.

+1 for Rythmik. I spent months searching for a new sub around 1k and after auditioning several others I took a chance on Rythmik and man am I glad I did. They really do make a phenomenal piece of hardware, plus the customer service and community is great.
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post #80 of 96 Old 05-28-2011, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasonS View Post

The funny thing about that is the CHT 18.1 is at the same price point and I have read in a few reviews, shootouts and GTGs that its a better overall sub than the A7s. It goes as loud, a bit deeper and is more musical as well. Its uglier than the A7s imo but that aside, if I only had $875 to spend on a single sub I would choose the 18.1 over the A7s after reading the many reviews here and on other audio forums.

MasonS...and here I thought we had an understanding...

Remember this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

Since they did not FR match the subs, their SQ comparisons were largely influenced by the different FR responses each sub exhibited. So when the claim is made that one sub has a better SQ over the other, it's primarily because of the reviewers preference for the FR of that particular sub in that particular room, not necessarily it's SQ.

Here's an example that may make more sense: Blind fold the listener. Tell him that you're testing 5 different subs. Take 1 sub and hook it up to a 12 band sub EQ. Play the same song/movie 5 different times. Each time, adjust the FR bands slightly. At the end of the comparison, the listener will claim that the first time perhaps it sounded tighter, the second time perhaps it had great extension, the third time perhaps a lot of mid bass slam, etc. etc. At the end of it, the listener will pick a 'perceived sub' that had the best sound quality. They are really just picking the FR he preferred as set by the EQ.

Now, for the shootouts, there were a lot more variables they considered like output, transient response, etc. so the above example is not exactly the same. However, you can see how the different FRs could largely influence their preference for SQ. This is why it is important to FR match the subs to really make it an apples to apples comparison.

And in that particular 'shootout' you're referring to, no FR measurements were even taken, so even less around the right science to compare them properly (and even less science compared to the 5 sub shootout).

Again, not taking away from the CHT 18.1 (and I actually have listened to the 18.T), but those reviews do not provide any conclusive data to one sub being better than another. When you quote those reviews like they're a conclusive source, it really shows you do not understand the science behind things...
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post #81 of 96 Old 05-29-2011, 09:22 AM
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I just heard, strike that, I just FELT the HSU VFT-15 at a freinds house and YES it will make you jump, move and make you feel sick! It's has A LOT of headroom.

I am selling my current SVS sub on Craigslist and getting the HSU instead. Man what an eye opener.....strike that, GUT opener that was!
YOU CAN PUT THE BUTTKICKERS UNDERNEATH THE COUCH AWAY!!

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post #82 of 96 Old 05-29-2011, 09:31 AM
 
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Uh, the thread starter posted his selection and left this thread a few days ago. I mention that because all of the campaigning for each brand is now more of a pissing contest. I should know, I've been in a few!
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post #83 of 96 Old 05-29-2011, 09:32 AM
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Which SVS do you have? You should take your sub over there before you sell it and see how it sounds in his room to make a direct comparion. I would love to hear the HSU and its tactile feel that everyone talks about.

BTW, my puny SVS 12" sub will compete just fine with the 15" and 18" subs here in performance
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post #84 of 96 Old 05-29-2011, 05:35 PM
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Uh, the thread starter posted his selection and left this thread a few days ago.

I guess I missed it. What did he end up going with?
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post #85 of 96 Old 05-30-2011, 08:31 AM
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I believe he went with the Rythmik F15 with the chance of picking up a second later
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post #86 of 96 Old 05-30-2011, 10:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, I have been away from the forum for a while.. was out for a couple of days. Almost decided to go with Rythmik F15, but they don't have black matte in stock for a while. But at the least, I am trying to get one for testing. Let's see how that goes.

BTW flame wars are always welcome! We learn a bit and if not, we have some fun..
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post #87 of 96 Old 05-31-2011, 01:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tesseract67 View Post

1. Can you back this up with some in room measurements? It would be nice to put some numbers to your subjective impressions.

Look here http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/con...e-subwoofers-6

Now add 3db for duals, or 6db if co-located, not bad for $1098 delivered!

2. Craig is not my boss. I am a volunteer on his site, I do it for love of the hobby and respect for what he is doing for the audio community.

Good for you, no comment on Craig!

3. As far as "deals" I would say that is relative. Many hobbyists would take exception to your ideal of a bargain sub. We wouldn't be having this discussion if you could just state your view as opinion, rather than emphatically insist your view is fact... in thread after thread.

Did you not see the disclaimer IMO in my post? I feel there are many better deals out there at the moment, which is why I'll be looking elsewhere.

4. You left out (intentionally?) the most important part of my quote: "It would be interesting to see which subs you preferred in a blind shootout, FPB. I bet the CraigSub, eD, or Rythmik would pound the cr*p out of your subs, sorry."

It would be nice to see you state that this comment is YOUR OPINION, nothing more. Twin LFM-1EX subs have 12 inch drivers, which is more area than a single 15 inch sub, and is roughly comparable to an 18 inch one. Twin 350 watt amps are more powerful when combined than the amp in a single CS or Rythmik sub, but not the eD, which is why it is on my short list. I prefer to upgrade to a pair of subs, and I need them to be so much better than what I have now to be what I consider a worthwhile upgrade (twin MBM subs, twin LFE subs, SMS-1).
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post #88 of 96 Old 05-31-2011, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floridapoolboy View Post

It would be nice to see you state that this comment is YOUR OPINION, nothing more. Twin LFM-1EX subs have 12 inch drivers, which is more area than a single 15 inch sub, and is roughly comparable to an 18 inch one. Twin 350 watt amps are more powerful when combined than the amp in a single CS or Rythmik sub, but not the eD, which is why it is on my short list. I prefer to upgrade to a pair of subs, and I need them to be so much better than what I have now to be what I consider a worthwhile upgrade (twin MBM subs, twin LFE subs, SMS-1).

FBP, there is more to a sub than it wattage you know. The subs sensitivity will help determine how much power it needs. The eD sub needs 1200 watts to reach it's limits and the CHT subs need 500 watts to reach theirs. Just because one has more watts does not mean it is more powerful. Besides, I have owned many subs and once you have enough headroom(spl's) and FR's that are the same it is more about extension, WAF, and price. The subs start to sound more similar than different once you match the frequencies.
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post #89 of 96 Old 05-31-2011, 02:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

FBP, there is more to a sub than it wattage you know. The subs sensitivity will help determine how much power it needs. The eD sub needs 1200 watts to reach it's limits and the CHT subs need 500 watts to reach theirs. Just because one has more watts does not mean it is more powerful. Besides, I have owned many subs and once you have enough headroom(spl's) and FR's that are the same it is more about extension, WAF, and price. The subs start to sound more similar than different once you match the frequencies.

Yes, I am aware of that, thanks. I'm also aware that subs tend to sound more alike than most would think, as long as they are not being overdriven. That is the root of my issue, I'm not overdriving mine, which makes an upgrade path more difficult. There are many subs out now sporting huge drivers and boasting of huge numbers, I'll take a wait and see approach until the smoke clears and the reviews are in. It's easy to forget that just a few short years ago 12" ported subs were all the rage, with Hsu, SVS, etc. selling them as their flagship models.
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post #90 of 96 Old 05-31-2011, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floridapoolboy View Post

Yes, I am aware of that, thanks. I'm also aware that subs tend to sound more alike than most would think, as long as they are not being overdriven. That is the root of my issue, I'm not overdriving mine, which makes an upgrade path more difficult. There are many subs out now sporting huge drivers and boasting of huge numbers, I'll take a wait and see approach until the smoke clears and the reviews are in. It's easy to forget that just a few short years ago 12" ported subs were all the rage, with Hsu, SVS, etc. selling them as their flagship models.

The huge numbers are fine because it relates to how much distortion or lack of during movie peaks which could make it sound better. Measurements can show what we are hearing. Right now I am subless and going to build some new ones.
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