Originally Posted by monomer
Okay, I've got some time here so I'll play along...
I prefer to seek natural sounding bass (as in natural musical instruments sounding nuanced and real and I include even bass vocals since my own personal definition of the bass frequencies goes up to 200Hz and so this includes paying attention to the mains as well). I am not an SPL guy but rather I seek balance (okay so I am a Libra). I consider myself extreme in the lengths I've gone to in my room treatments... still there are MANY here on AVS that have me beat in this area for sure but to the general public THAT (acoustical room treatments) is my weird obsession... and so I'll accept that label of extremist. Still I don't try to up-sell anyone other than to often recommend taking in-room measurements as the first step to solving preceived issues with bass response. Just from my own personal experience I have the impression that very powerful low extension is at odds with the reproduction of nuanced and natural sounding bass in music (discounting rap and techno type music that feature distortion-based synthetic driving bass lines). I tend to find that many things in audio (as in life) involves trade-offs. My greatest difficulty sub-wise has been trying to strike that balance within the bass frequencies.
An aside: There is by far way more bass music in blockbusters than any below 20Hz movie effects.
With due respect, you agree to "play along" when you started it? That gave me a chuckle.
My son is like you. Every time he sits in the sweet spot to listen, he first claps his hands and says "Man, the reverberation in this room is unbearable!"
I concede the fact to him and promise some day I'll get around to it.
The point I'm always trying to make is that, using this example, I never tell him he's an extremist and quote some made-up numbers about what percentage of the global population doesn't care about reverberation.
I'm not so sensitive that I get defensive and start arguing from a position that's indefensible. Rather, I agree with him because he's a smart guy and in this case he's absolutely right.
On these forums, if someone posts facts that have to do with... um, let's see... Subwoofers, Bass and Transducers... good on him. Facts are the needed ingredient. If certain facts of the matter are irrelevant to you, move on to what is relevant to you. Don't instead tell the poster why, if it's irrelevant to you, it's somehow useless information and he's extreme and alone in the world vs everyone else.
When a member starts a thread that asks "The purpose of flat response below 20 Hz - why does it matter?", there should only be 1 group involved. Instead there are immediately 2 groups involved. People who post the answer to that question and people who post why <20 Hz doesn't matter, while calling the first group silly names, disparaging their allotment of disposable income, etc.
Fact is, before the first page of this thread was done, there were 2 members, both of us having been active members for 10 years, answering the question with facts and everyone else was babbling about what subs they've owned, what they prefer as a LF cutoff point (which, surprise, just happened to coincide with their latest sub upgrade), how <20 Hz is inaudible and so, irrelevant, how human hearing isn't flat, Fletcher/Munsen and every other completely irrelevant point to the question asked.
[Sorry James, but...] One member actually posted this:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe
Excellent, excellent, post.
As a good number in these parts know, I was considering an all-out assault on the 5-15hz range, but after experiencing it in a couple of maniacal (in the best sense of the word, of course) HT's, I walked away thinking very closely to what you detailed above.To me, it seems as much "specsmanship" as anything else, and when you begin to consider the costs and space, it simply reeks a bit daft to me.Now, I'll "suffer" with two Captivators, be good to around ~15 pretty darn strong in my room and laugh all the way to the bank. To each, his own though of course.
Again, great thought, thanks for it.
Hmmmm... if one considers the cost and space, it's just specsmanship and it reeks a bit daft? OK. But wait, then he spends $3,000.00, deals with 16 cubes of sub and gets nothing below 15 Hz.
No one told him he spent too much, his subs are too big or he lacks extension for the space and $$ spent, did they? Much less call his 15 Hz specsmanship or his discretionary spending choices daft.
And, what on earth does this have to do with answering why flat to below 20 Hz matters?