HuskerOmaha's Subwoofer Showdown GTG (Interest Thread) - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 308 Old 10-04-2011, 01:35 PM
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I am using a Markertek Canare 1/4" TRS to XLR cable for the loopback. I used the same cable for all tests. I am using Output 1 from the back of the unit to Input 1 on the front. I had tested all 8 inputs and had the exact same results. I just tried the headphone output to Input 1 and get the same results as using Output 1. I also tried padding the mic input, but that didn't change the response, either.

According to the specs, the output impedance is 600 Ω and input impedance on the mic/line is 3.5 K Ω. I could run the signal through the Matchbox HD which converts from 600 Ω to over 2 K Ω. The Matchbox HD is flat to DC. I have an unbalanced RCA to XLR cable for connecting from the Matchbox HD to the mic/line in. I'll try this tomorrow just to see what happens unless you know that it won't work.
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post #92 of 308 Old 10-04-2011, 01:49 PM
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I just tried using the 1/4" TRS with the tip part way in the headphone output. Now the response is much flatter. The red line in the attached chart is the headphone out to mic/line in. Should I use that as my soundcard calibration file and just use the MR816x for input/output?
LL
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post #93 of 308 Old 10-04-2011, 04:18 PM - Thread Starter
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As you can see, desertdome is the EQ man so we need to pray his wife doesn't go into labor around our subwoofer GTG. Otherwise I'll need to learn fast!

What do you guys think of including a TRON clip? With the intense visceral bass those tracks have, I want to include it even though there has been clipping issues found (not sure that matters for our uses).
Otherwise we are in the middle of selecting movie tracks and music tracks.


It sounds like Archaea can bring his dual Cap pros.

That would put us at 4 pairs of dual subs to this point; with several single driver examples as well.

EDIT: Captivator Pros

-Greg

 



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post #94 of 308 Old 10-04-2011, 04:58 PM
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I'm very possibly interested in this. Putting a pin in this thread so I can comb through it later. I'm in Omaha, I don't have a subwoofer but I'm interested in getting one and learning a bit more about them. I'd especially like to hear the HSU, I've been looking at that model.
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post #95 of 308 Old 10-04-2011, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post

It sounds like Archaea can bring his dual Cap1000s.
That would put us at 4 pairs of dual subs to this point; with several single driver examples as well.


I can bring my pair of Captivator Pros if the welcome is there, though I don't have Captivator 1000s. If somebody has powered Captivators with Jeff's dsp amp directly mated to the Captivators they are welcome to bring those instead, but I certaintly don't mind bringing my passive Captivator Pros. I've got a couple of amps I can bring, the Behringer Inuke DSP 3000, or the EP4000. A couple points of note - my Captivators are the professional version, (called Captivator Pro or Captivator X) for mobile DJs basically so the cosmetics may or may not appeal to some but the sound should be the same as the other home theatre Captivator because the driver is the same and the box is the same dimmensions.

Here is the Captivator -(30mm xmax - passive)
http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/captivator/

Here is the Captivator Pro (the ones I have, same driver - 30mm xmax - passive -thinner/lighter box construction with handles and metal grill)
http://jtrspeakers.com/portable/captivator-pro/

Here is the Captivator 1000 -(18mm xmax - 1000 watt active)
http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/captivator-1000/

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #96 of 308 Old 10-05-2011, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post

I just tried using the 1/4" TRS with the tip part way in the headphone output. Now the response is much flatter. The red line in the attached chart is the headphone out to mic/line in. Should I use that as my soundcard calibration file and just use the MR816x for input/output?

That is what I would do. Adding further units in the signal path can only cause further roll off of the signal chain. BTW I don't think either way it will matter to what you guys are doing as it will all be relative. I just wanted to spread that info. Your Steinberg is likely very flat.


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post #97 of 308 Old 10-05-2011, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

I can bring my pair of Captivator Pros if the welcome is there

We would love to have your pair Captivator Pros here to hear! Greg and I were talking Sunday night as we carried subs down to the basement. One thing that is unique about this GTG is all the pairs or quads of subs that will be available: 2 Cinema F20s, 2 Motor City Custom Audio (MCCA) Turbos, 4 MFW-15 dual opposed (with MCAA custom amp), 2 CHT 18.1s, 2 JTR Captivator Pros. This is going to be fun!

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That is what I would do. Adding further units in the signal path can only cause further roll off of the signal chain. BTW I don't think either way it will matter to what you guys are doing as it will all be relative. I just wanted to spread that info. Your Steinberg is likely very flat.

Thanks for the help and advice. I'll stick to using just the Steinberg.
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post #98 of 308 Old 10-05-2011, 10:47 AM
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If you are still interested in having a eD A7S-450 at the GTG, someone call me to help move it to the site. Any evening between the 19-21st after 6pm will work.

PM me for the phone number.
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post #99 of 308 Old 10-05-2011, 11:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Spankenstein View Post

If you are still interested in having a eD A7S-450 at the GTG, someone call me to help move it to the site. Any evening between the 19-21st after 6pm will work.

PM me for the phone number.

Yes please, PM sent

-Greg

 



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post #100 of 308 Old 10-06-2011, 02:41 PM - Thread Starter
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For those attending if your amp is rack mountable please make sure you bring your rack ears or ensure they are attached well.
The amps pictured are the 2 SA1000 for the MFW Dual Opp and the Samson for the F-20s.

We plan on mounting all of those amps on this 42U rack that is sitting in the storage area adjacent to the HT room.

Working on our music and movie track list and scoring/observation sheets right now. Will probably borrow ideas from the KC, Southern and Madeel Subwoofer tests.

There will also be drinks and food provided for lunch and dinner (breakfast for those friday night campers).
My wife declined the offer to waltz around in a bikini serving sodas--sorry!

She just told me the F20s are unacceptable so those might be up for sale but I haven't had the time to really hear them yet. If I have to get rid of them maybe IB through the storage room wall is the next idea.

We are going to keep the adult beverages out of this GTG until the very end-want to have clear heads and avoid damaging any equipment or having anyone get out of hand.

Thoughts on ear plugs? I'm not sure how that would work since we need to clearly hear the material, but I also don't want any ear damage.

As far as objective data, I would really like to get close mics of all of the subs. I'm not sure of how the KC guys did this indoor GP measurements, but I'll look into it as well....
We should also be able to track the SPL data.

Otherwise a lot of our initial questions we want to explore were more of a subjective nature.

For those attending, I have 4 theater seats and 4 bar seats that should all be great spots to sit...we can figure out a seating chart as the day gets closer.
Those 8 will be reserved for those attending all day, and then I have folding chairs for another 6 where needed.

I really want to do blind listening, but I just don't see how it is feasible with the amount of subs and things we want to do. If it was single subs it maybe would work. I don't think my room is large enough. If someone thinks of a great process let me know but I'm thinking this will be too difficult to accomplish and not sure it is needed with what we want to do.

I'll also try and have a handout of the subs in play that day, along with specs of each, demo material being played, along with the score sheets in hand.

I'll update the initial post as well with an updated list of subs.
LL
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post #101 of 308 Old 10-06-2011, 02:54 PM - Thread Starter
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If there is any interest in a web streaming of this as well, I could probably do that but would need assistance unless desertdome knows the easiest way.

-Greg

 



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post #102 of 308 Old 10-06-2011, 03:22 PM
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One thing I noted from the KC meet was that counsil, who was taking max spl readings with a handheld SPL meter did not enjoy his movie session (when we actually measured the SPL). He felt pressure to make sure he was getting exactly accurate numbers, and didn't get to watch the clips or the subs during their heaviest activity, when some of the rest of us were occassionally getting up and walking around the room and watching the drivers move and such.

So with that experience in mind is there anyway to have the max or peak SPL measured automatically through some software so someone isn't tasked with watching a meter for four hours or so?

counsil also took the ground plane measurements for our subs in KC. He took one initial measurement in the same middle location for all subs, and then averaged the four primary seating positions to get the ground plane average. That process got pretty efficient by the end of the day, but still counsil's day was all work and no play and it really was not as fun for him as it was for the rest of us. I'd advise not pummeling someone to death with administrative tasks during the meet as much as possible so that everyone enjoys their time!

If the movie clips can be decided in advance it'll go a long way towards agressively starting the event in a timely manner. We spent about an hour or hour and a half trying to vote/decide on which movie clips were the final list which was not time well spent. The song list was decided in advance and was much smoother. I printed our score sheets 3 different times in the KC meet trying to get a 'final copy' when that should have been finalized before we ever started.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #103 of 308 Old 10-06-2011, 05:21 PM
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You could do a peak hold using Spectrum Lab or ARTA or REW. You could just set the mic somewhere random out of the way for that since you only care how the subs n hand compare to each other. You would have to reset the peak hold for each sub or scene you wanted to do and save each capture.


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post #104 of 308 Old 10-06-2011, 06:11 PM
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Oh and Greg. Should you warn your neighbors about this date? The meet lineup is like a subwoofer all star team. The neighbors are gonna hear our fun!

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #105 of 308 Old 10-06-2011, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post

Thoughts on ear plugs? I'm not sure how that would work since we need to clearly hear the material, but I also don't want any ear damage.

http://www.amazon.com/Etymotic-Resea.../dp/B0044DEESS

have never tried them, but cheap enough


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post #106 of 308 Old 10-06-2011, 08:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

If the movie clips can be decided in advance it'll go a long way towards agressively starting the event in a timely manner. We spent about an hour or hour and a half trying to vote/decide on which movie clips were the final list which was not time well spent. The song list was decided in advance and was much smoother. I printed our score sheets 3 different times in the KC meet trying to get a 'final copy' when that should have been finalized before we ever started.

We definitely plan on having a predefined list of movie tracks from the scuba steve demos as well as dvd/bluray source material. Michael's J River Media Program can edit the clips fairly easily as I understand it and just play the time stamps repeatedly...like a playall for all clips if you will.

Same with the music. I'm thinking we will go heavier on the movie clips and lighter on the music tracks compared to the KC meet material


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Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

You could do a peak hold using Spectrum Lab or ARTA or REW. You could just set the mic somewhere random out of the way for that since you only care how the subs n hand compare to each other. You would have to reset the peak hold for each sub or scene you wanted to do and save each capture.

Nice. That will make that easy

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Oh and Greg. Should you warn your neighbors about this date? The meet lineup is like a subwoofer all star team. The neighbors are gonna hear our fun!

My neighbors all seem super cool and I know some well, but maybe I will go around and let them know. It will be a saturday so I don't think it will be a big deal unless we are doing the unlimited bass (Cap Pros, F20s, 18s, 15s all at once) at 11pm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Horstkotte View Post

http://www.amazon.com/Etymotic-Resea.../dp/B0044DEESS

have never tried them, but cheap enough

Those look decent enough. I could buy 10 pairs and have them on hand for everyone if they want.

Another thing, Archaeas GTG had them crossover at 120 hz. I guess I was thinking we would go with 80 hz since the majority of people utilize that standard. Any discussion on this would be great.

-Greg

 



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post #107 of 308 Old 10-06-2011, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post

My neighbors all seem super cool and I know some well, but maybe I will go around and let them know. It will be a saturday so I don't think it will be a big deal unless we are doing the unlimited bass (Cap Pros, F20s, 18s, 15s all at once) at 11pm.

Well in that case you might want to let the whole town know and perhaps the local power plant as well. My power bill is usually pretty standard, though not averaged it doesn't vary that much. The month of my subwoofer meet the bill was about $20 higher than normal... :P

Jeff's 4000 watt Captivator amp used in both the Seaton Submersive and the Captivator is probably largely to blame - ha!

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #108 of 308 Old 10-07-2011, 08:08 AM
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The month of my subwoofer meet the bill was about $20 higher than normal... :P

We will have one of these in the back yard to help keep the water bill down. By using the peak hold in REW on our secondary system we should be able to award a "maximum output" prize at the end of the day.

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Thanks for all your effort on this Husker, should be a fun day.


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post #110 of 308 Old 10-07-2011, 10:53 AM
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Desertdome make sure you leave the mic input sensitivity WAY down on the mic used for peak hold so the bigger subs won't clip the input. I'd leave it at the minimum setting to be safe.

When is this shindig anyway? Seem like you guys have been carrying on about it for half a year now.


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post #111 of 308 Old 10-07-2011, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
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Well in that case you might want to let the whole town know and perhaps the local power plant as well. My power bill is usually pretty standard, though not averaged it doesn't vary that much. The month of my subwoofer meet the bill was about $20 higher than normal... :P

Jeff's 4000 watt Captivator amp used in both the Seaton Submersive and the Captivator is probably largely to blame - ha!

Actually, the Submersive HP uses a 2400W amp. It is the Terraform XL (not yet released) that will use the 4000W amp. Jeff likes lots-o-power.


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post #112 of 308 Old 10-07-2011, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Brad Horstkotte View Post

http://www.amazon.com/Etymotic-Resea.../dp/B0044DEESS

have never tried them, but cheap enough

Since my somewhat recent tinnitus issue I bought a pair of these and they came with a little pouch that attaches to my keychain. I used them last night at an Opeth concert and the sound was fantastic, not dulled muffled highs that you get with regular foam ear plugs.

Also, I had no ear ringing (well, no more than the everyday tinnitus) whatsoever after the concert. That was a nice change since my ears usually ring very loudly for a couple of days after a concert.


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post #113 of 308 Old 10-07-2011, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

Desertdome make sure you leave the mic input sensitivity WAY down on the mic used for peak hold so the bigger subs won't clip the input. I'd leave it at the minimum setting to be safe.

When is this shindig anyway? Seem like you guys have been carrying on about it for half a year now.

Thanks for all the tips. I will probably pad the mic input to reduce its sensitivity by 26 dB, too. You need to make an entry in the Know-How section of data-bass.com called "Tips for GTG's."

Wait until its over. It will take another 6 months just to publish any opinions and ratings.
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post #114 of 308 Old 10-07-2011, 01:39 PM
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We will have one of these in the back yard to help keep the water bill down. By using the peak hold in REW on our secondary system we should be able to award a "maximum output" prize at the end of the day.



hahaha

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #115 of 308 Old 10-07-2011, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

Desertdome make sure you leave the mic input sensitivity WAY down on the mic used for peak hold so the bigger subs won't clip the input. I'd leave it at the minimum setting to be safe.

When is this shindig anyway? Seem like you guys have been carrying on about it for half a year now.

You should fly/drive in. Put it on your calender - October 22.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #116 of 308 Old 10-07-2011, 01:42 PM
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I'll be coming along with Archaea and bring my BIC F12, I only have one at the moment, so if someone else has one we can pair them up.

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post #117 of 308 Old 10-07-2011, 02:19 PM - Thread Starter
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[quote=Archaea;21049226]Well in that case you might want to let the whole town know and perhaps the local power plant as well. My power bill is usually pretty standard, though not averaged it doesn't vary that much. The month of my subwoofer meet the bill was about $20 higher than normal... :P

Maybe instead of a feed of the GTG, I just have a feed of my power meter. Then we can have a guessing game as to which subs were running at what time. I have 3-20 amp circuits right now, and I'm not worried about running any more just for the GTG. If someone thinks that is shortsighted let me know.
QUOTE]

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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Thanks for all your effort on this Husker, should be a fun day.

Couldn't do it without desertdome!

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Since my somewhat recent tinnitus issue I bought a pair of these and they came with a little pouch that attaches to my keychain.

I'll buy 5 pair or so, or we could get a tally on who wants these

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Originally Posted by desertdome View Post

Thanks for all the tips. I will probably pad the mic input to reduce its sensitivity by 26 dB, too. You need to make an entry in the Know-How section of data-bass.com called "Tips for GTG's."

Wait until its over. It will take another 6 months just to publish any opinions and ratings.

I promise to have all of the writeups, charts, videos, pictures, observations up by 2 am of the day after

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Originally Posted by kcnitro07 View Post

I'll be coming along with Archaea and bring my BIC F12, I only have one at the moment, so if someone else has one we can pair them up.


Alright, now I really need to try and remember who the local was with the F12. Then we can run duals of that as well. Duals rock.

We are going to try and set up as much as possible beforehand. I'm going to go get the DTS10/Growler and the eD subs prior. Cap Pros and F12 will be there the night before as well. Gives us a good jump on things.

Ricci, do you want me to get you airline quotes?


Ninja Edit: bighick-PM sent about acquiring your F12 (and you?) for the GTG.

-Greg

 



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post #118 of 308 Old 10-07-2011, 02:37 PM - Thread Starter
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For food I am thinking pizza for lunch and BBQ for dinner.

Is Godfathers/Pizza Hut going to be good enough for everyone?

For dinner, nebrunner has offerred to smoke some stuff (still an offer on that, Chris?) or I could go with this guy:

http://hogheavenbbq.wordpress.com/

-Greg

 



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post #119 of 308 Old 10-07-2011, 03:06 PM
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I live in lincoln...work in omaha. As long as I am in working in omaha that week I can drop my sub off during lunch or something. I will give you a call next week
BTW- its a Bic F12 to get duals for the KC guy
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post #120 of 308 Old 10-07-2011, 03:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bighick View Post

I live in lincoln...work in omaha. As long as I am in working in omaha that week I can drop my sub off during lunch or something. I will give you a call next week
BTW- its a Bic F12 to get duals for the KC guy

Sounds good-give me a ring whenever--this is definitely turning into a dually meet.

Post 1 updated again with sub info.

More nominations for pizza selections rolling in from desertdome:

http://www.mangiaitaliana.com/ (Michael's favorite, and it is good)

Papa Murphys.

-Greg

 



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