Bic Acoustech PL-200 Data-Bass test results - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 46 Old 08-01-2011, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Every commercial subwoofer I have tested thus far is amplifier limited above 30hz. At some point the subwoofer simply will not go any louder with the bursts. You can continue to increase the level of the signal but all that happens is that the distortion rises. The fundamental does not gain any more appreciable strength. The CEA2010 program reports the strength of the fundamental of the center burst frequency. In many units increasing the input signal another 3 to 6db might result in an increase of 0.1db or sometimes even a slight loss in output and a dramatic increase in distortion. This is a common occurence. There is no reason to continue clipping the amplifier harder and harder if all it results in is more distortion but no notable output gain.

Also I have done a lot of testing with raw drivers and DIY subwoofers using very high power professional amplifiers. At the upper bass frequencies that are not excursion limited, the results trend the same. There is no compressor involved in those tests. The amplifier eventually hits clipping and further increases in the signal strength mostly just increases distortion due to the amplifier being over driven. This does not result in higher CEA2010 results.

I remember you having a lot of questions about compression circuits in another thread and questioning how the results might be affected one way or the other. I am using both a severe duty long term sine signal that will 100% for sure engage the compressor in a sub if it employs one. CEA2010 is at the other end of the spectrum with very short duration burst signals, which should allow any subwoofer to produce it's full dynamic output potential. In between the 2 test signal types there is plenty of area for a whole range of attack and release setting scenario's. However the tests here are to identify the performance with an absolute worst case signal and a best case (more representative of real world) signal. CEA2010 is pretty easy on the systems it allows us to gauge the maximum dynamic capabilities in various 1/3rd octave frequency bands easily. Again most subwoofers will not come anywhere near the distortion thresholds at the top of the bass range with these very short duration signals before the amplifier runs into clipping.
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post #32 of 46 Old 08-01-2011, 01:00 PM
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If you turn up the input signal and output barely rises if at all, the amp is compressing/limiting the signal. I looked up the specs. It' a bash amp so it does indeed have a compressor built into it.
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post #33 of 46 Old 08-02-2011, 08:40 PM
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db.com is receiving a major backend upgrade so entering data will be very easy for us. Once that is finished the front end will get some minor upgrades and we'll be posting all the new reviews on the site including this one.

suggestions are encouraged

data-bass.com
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post #34 of 46 Old 08-03-2011, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post


That would be pretty cool. Honestly, I could use friends like you around here.


I'll disagree for an odd reason...

I've met up with Ricci a few times and he's been over at my place too. He's a great guy and his knowledge goes far, but I could see having someone like that living close to you or me would cost a lot of money. I could see loans (multiple) for huge pro amp and dozens of drivers all with huge magnets and requiring a forklift to lift into enclosures, eventually declaring bankruptcy and only have left stacks of blown subwoofers, an upgraded electrical system in your former house, and the hearing capacity of a jackhammer construction worker who retired after years of no hearing protection
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post #35 of 46 Old 08-03-2011, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sahak94 View Post


Was the sub gain/volume/level set at max?

my question to that is where was the best setting you found during the testing
to get the optimum performance out of the unit?
it might help some who are new to this sub with their initial set up.

also, did you give this sub any break in run time before the test?

thanks for the results.

my HT
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post #36 of 46 Old 08-03-2011, 02:31 PM - Thread Starter
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The sub had been run briefly prior to testing to ensure proper operation and listen to it. I don't put a whole lot of stock in "break in".

The setting of the input gain on the plate amp had virtually no effect on the performance, nor has it on any sub to date. I messed with that just to make sure on a couple of subwoofers. There was no effect on response shape or maximum output and there shouldn't be. It is a sensitivity control not an output control. The input trim should ideally only affect the amount of input voltage needed into the amplifier to get maximum output potential from it and in could raise the SNR. If the input trim does make changes to the response or notable ones to the performance I would call that defective. The electronics chain I am using is capable of more than 12.5 volts output with less than 0.5% thd. This is more than enough to severely overdrive any amplifier input that I am aware of even at their least sensitive setting. To answer the general question powered subs have the input gain set at the middle position for the tests. Most users and systems probably end up with it set somewhere in the middle 50%.

Hope that helps.
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post #37 of 46 Old 08-04-2011, 09:50 AM
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thanks, I learn as I plug along.

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post #38 of 46 Old 08-25-2011, 09:53 PM
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jesus...how quickly all this good information was lost in the subwoofer build thread speaks volumes...i had to dig and dig and dig...just to find it and i knew what i was looking for...something has gone very wrong...

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #39 of 46 Old 08-26-2011, 07:04 AM
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Yeah, the great thing about the Shack was that they had a dedicated area to put all the tests from Ilkka. Works great from a "search" perspective...

 

My DIY Subs ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1233892

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post #40 of 46 Old 08-26-2011, 07:08 AM
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I wonder how much difference there is between the BIC PL-200 and BIC F-12

PE has them on 1/2 discount.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=303-436

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post #41 of 46 Old 08-26-2011, 07:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Storing all of this in one convenient place is what Data-Bass is for. Yes it will be complete eventually. The overhaul is almost done.
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post #42 of 46 Old 08-26-2011, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

I wonder how much difference there is between the BIC PL-200 and BIC F-12

PE has them on 1/2 discount.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=303-436

$180~$200 is the normal price for the F12. From what I've read in other threads it's not as capable as the PL-200, but I have no personal experience with either sub so I dunno.

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post #43 of 46 Old 12-29-2012, 12:12 PM
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Do they even make the PL-200 now? I am in the market for a new sub and I have no idea what to buy.. It seems the PL-200 is no longer available.. Any new recommendations for subs?
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post #44 of 46 Old 12-29-2012, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eron View Post

Do they even make the PL-200 now? I am in the market for a new sub and I have no idea what to buy.. It seems the PL-200 is no longer available.. Any new recommendations for subs?
The PL-200 is available at Acoustic Sound Design. Amazon seems to be out of stock at the moment.

Klipsch Synergy 3 speakers (LCR & surrounds)
dual Klipsch RW 12d
dual BIC PL-200
120" DIY 16:9 screen
Panasonic PT AX 200U projector
Panasonic BMP-BD35 blu-ray
Velodyne SMS-1
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post #45 of 46 Old 12-30-2012, 11:09 AM
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Thank you for this..

i recently purchased 2 RC-70's, and a veritas V-MINI-C center.. In the market now for the sub and a receiver.. I am into price performance points. This PL-200.. is it the best sub in it's class?

Anything else I should be looking at in a 400-800 dollar budget.. Any item I should keep an eye out for sales on?


Anyhow, thanks..
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post #46 of 46 Old 12-30-2012, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eron View Post

Thank you for this..
i recently purchased 2 RC-70's, and a veritas V-MINI-C center.. In the market now for the sub and a receiver.. I am into price performance points. This PL-200.. is it the best sub in it's class?
Anything else I should be looking at in a 400-800 dollar budget.. Any item I should keep an eye out for sales on?
Anyhow, thanks..
You can look at the Klipsch RW12D. It is considered a great sub when priced at around $300 to $350. I actually have both subs in my theater and they both are very good subs in my opinion. If your budget is as high as $800 then you should be looking at other subs. With a $800 limit I would be looking at the PSA XV-15.

Klipsch Synergy 3 speakers (LCR & surrounds)
dual Klipsch RW 12d
dual BIC PL-200
120" DIY 16:9 screen
Panasonic PT AX 200U projector
Panasonic BMP-BD35 blu-ray
Velodyne SMS-1
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