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Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers > Apartment Advice
Zuk109's Avatar Zuk109 11:42 PM 08-14-2011
I am wondering if a front or down firing sub would be better in a 3rd/top floor apartment. I will be buying a SubDude either way. My sub will be in a corner behind a A/V stand. Im not sure what would be best for my placement and apartment living. Maybe it doesn't matter either way?

I've got a budget of $400 and Im thinking real hard about the Emotiva Ultra 12.

I'm open to other suggestions in that price range. I've never had or heard Emotiva. it will be primarily used for movies but I love my music too!

Thanks

vraxoin's Avatar vraxoin 12:13 AM 08-15-2011
If you are going to be using a SubDude, I wouldn't worry too terribly much about orientation. Regardless, acoustics are tricky and there's no guarantee that your neighbors won't hear certain frequencies, SubDude or no. I think that your current plan of getting an Emo Ultra Sub 12 is very solid. It seems hard to do much better for the money while it's on sale and with free shipping.
Zuk109's Avatar Zuk109 08:52 AM 08-15-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by vraxoin View Post

If you are going to be using a SubDude, I wouldn't worry too terribly much about orientation. Regardless, acoustics are tricky and there's no guarantee that your neighbors won't hear certain frequencies, SubDude or no. I think that your current plan of getting an Emo Ultra Sub 12 is very solid. It seems hard to do much better for the money while it's on sale and with free shipping.

I appreciate your response. Guess I figured the SubDude might work better on a down firing sub as opposed to front firing. I also had concerns with a front firing sub being corner loaded behind my stand and vibrating everything in my A/V stand. Those were my biggest concerns, my neighbors below and my wife nagging about vibrations inside our apartment. Thank you!

As far as the Emo Ultra 12, how does that stack up to the HSU STF2 or Outlaw Compact. I know they are both 10" subs with less power however it takes more power to drive a 12", correct? I know I've read lots of great reviews here on Emo, and for me that helps immensely. Love this forum.

By the way I've heard the Outlaw before and loved it. I'm sure I would love the Emo as well just curious how the 3 stack up?
Nosferatu's Avatar Nosferatu 09:05 AM 08-15-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuk109 View Post

By the way I've heard the Outlaw before and loved it. I'm sure I would love the Emo as well just curious how the 3 stack up?

Then do an Outlaw and don't look back. I'm in an apartment and run the LFM-1 EX

It sits on a Gramma and so far so good...granted I am on the ground floor.

Like the others said, it will help "subdue" some of the bass but you will still have certain sounds leak through to the other floors no matter what you do besides lowering the volume.
Tom Vodhanel's Avatar Tom Vodhanel 09:50 AM 08-15-2011
To minimize potential complaints you should attempt to place the subwoofer as close to your main listening positions as possible. Also, be sure to calibrate with a meter. Then just use common sense (no reference level films at midnight for example).

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
Tulpa's Avatar Tulpa 09:53 AM 08-15-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuk109 View Post

I appreciate your response. Guess I figured the SubDude might work better on a down firing sub as opposed to front firing. I also had concerns with a front firing sub being corner loaded behind my stand and vibrating everything in my A/V stand. Those were my biggest concerns, my neighbors below and my wife nagging about vibrations inside our apartment. Thank you!

Subdudes actually work well for both driver orientations (I have a DIY one for my front firing sub, and I live in an apartment.) A downfiring sub could vibrate the AV stand just as bad as a front firing one in that position.

Remember, bass waves are so large they go everywhere, and regardless of where the driver points, your neighbors will hear it if you push it loud enough.
Zuk109's Avatar Zuk109 11:01 AM 08-15-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosferatu View Post


Then do an Outlaw and don't look back. I'm in an apartment and run the LFM-1 EX

It sits on a Gramma and so far so good...granted I am on the ground floor.

Like the others said, it will help "subdue" some of the bass but you will still have certain sounds leak through to the other floors no matter what you do besides lowering the volume.

I hear you on your sub in an apartment, glad its working for you. Ground floor helps a lot, I'm sure. Thank you.

However thats not quite the comparison I had hoped for, the Emo is a 12" w/300 watt amp. I'm curious about the advantages of a 12" over the two 10" subs I mentioned. Would the 12" w/300w have as much or more impact than the 10"s w/200-225w ? I realize a larger sub needs more power to drive it, beyond that im not sure which would be more efficient. I also realize the Emo is sealed and the other two are ported, however I don't know enough to understand how that relates to performance? I do know enough to ask for help, and where to find it, lol

On another note, one of the things that my wife likes is the smaller footprint of the Emo, however I don't want to make a decision on size.

All 3 subs are comparable in price and just hoped someone could elaborate on the 3?
Steve1981's Avatar Steve1981 11:14 AM 08-15-2011
Hi Zuk,

For what it's worth, the Emotiva is a very good, small sealed subwoofer. It has reasonably high output from 40Hz on up. However, because of its size and sealed box design, low end response will likely be appreciably lower than a Hsu STF2. From 40Hz on up, the Emotiva will likely hold its own or potentially exceed the Hsu.

Here is a link to some measurements of the Emotiva

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/s...2-measurements

As you can note, by the time you're at 25Hz, you're down 10dB from max output at 40Hz. Depending on the size and layout of your room, you could make some of this up with room gain; then again, maybe not.

PS: You might as well ignore driver size vs power. Much more depends on the design of the driver and enclosure.
Zuk109's Avatar Zuk109 12:18 PM 08-15-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post

To minimize potential complaints you should attempt to place the subwoofer as close to your main listening positions as possible. Also, be sure to calibrate with a meter. Then just use common sense (no reference level films at midnight for example).

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

Thanks Tom. Unfortunately we only have one spot to place the sub, it will be 15ft from our furthest listening position.

I hear you on common sense in an apartment

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post


Subdudes actually work well for both driver orientations (I have a DIY one for my front firing sub, and I live in an apartment.) A downfiring sub could vibrate the AV stand just as bad as a front firing one in that position.

Remember, bass waves are so large they go everywhere, and regardless of where the driver points, your neighbors will hear it if you push it loud enough.

Thanks Tulpa, very helpful and good to know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve1981 View Post

Hi Zuk,

For what it's worth, the Emotiva is a very good, small sealed subwoofer. It has reasonably high output from 40Hz on up. However, because of its size and sealed box design, low end response will likely be appreciably lower than a Hsu STF2. From 40Hz on up, the Emotiva will likely hold its own or potentially exceed the Hsu.

Here is a link to some measurements of the Emotiva

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/s...2-measurements

As you can note, by the time you're at 25Hz, you're down 10dB from max output at 40Hz. Depending on the size and layout of your room, you could make some of this up with room gain; then again, maybe not.

PS: You might as well ignore driver size vs power. Much more depends on the design of the driver and enclosure.

Ahh, very useful stuff Steve. I appreciate the link, I'm not sure I understand all of it but I do appreciate your comparison to the HSU. Exactly what I was looking for, thank you!
elbrunoloco's Avatar elbrunoloco 12:34 PM 08-15-2011
Can a subdude owner describe the difference the subdude made please? I'm in a 2nd story apt I just used rubber hopscotch pads from wallyworld under my 12" sub
Tulpa's Avatar Tulpa 12:41 PM 08-15-2011
Dramatic difference, in my case. Bass is tighter and the items in the room no longer rattle (pictures, glassware, etc.)

Disclosure: I don't own a Subdude, but built my own quick and dirty knockoff with MDF and sanding sponges, but the fundamental principle between mine and a Subdude is the same. It also cost me all of $15 or so.
elbrunoloco's Avatar elbrunoloco 03:39 PM 08-15-2011
Ok that's awesome idk why I never thought to use sanding sponges
FOH's Avatar FOH 04:06 PM 08-15-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuk109 View Post
Thanks Tom. Unfortunately we only have one spot to place the sub, it will be 15ft from our furthest listening position.
15' away from your sub, and in an apartment...trouble

Seriously, if you could find a way to position the sub near-field, two aspects are improved dramatically. First, the frequency response one would enjoy near-field would approach ruler flat. This is good, real good. Secondly, and most importantly, you can play the LF at a lower level, and yet maintain the relative loudness from the prior position. Less egress of LF to your neighbors unit.

This is very effective, and not insignificant.

Good luck
Nosferatu's Avatar Nosferatu 04:16 PM 08-15-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuk109 View Post
I realize a larger sub needs more power to drive it, beyond that im not sure which would be more efficient.
Not true. Typically smaller subs need more power to get the same level of volume when compared to a larger sub with less power. The LFM-1 EX is "only" 350 watts RMS.
Zuk109's Avatar Zuk109 04:37 PM 08-15-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH

15' away from your sub, and in an apartment...trouble

Seriously, if you could find a way to position the sub near-field, two aspects are improved dramatically. First, the frequency response one would enjoy near-field would approach ruler flat. This is good, real good. Secondly, and most importantly, you can play the LF at a lower level, and yet maintain the relative loudness from the prior position. Less egress of LF to your neighbors unit.

This is very effective, and not insignificant.

Good luck
Well, unfortunately I don't have a choice on sub placement.

The good news is I just measured my furthest distance and it's 12ft, even better is the fact that MY recliner is just 8ft away. My sub will be tuned to my recliner, lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosferatu

Not true. Typically smaller subs need more power to get the same level of volume when compared to a larger sub with less power. The LFM-1 EX is "only" 350 watts RMS.
I stand corrected, thank you.

I guess I figured it would require more power as it's pushing more air.
Nosferatu's Avatar Nosferatu 09:40 PM 08-15-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuk109 View Post

I stand corrected, thank you.

I guess I figured it would require more power as it's pushing more air.

I'm big into cars so think of it as such...

Small 4 banger versus big V8

Small 4 banger (small sub) needs lots of RPMs (watts) to make the horsepower (SPL) as a big V8 which has tons of torque so that it needs only a small amout of RPMs (watts) to make the horsepower (SPL).

Help? I'm a car guy sorry...
Zuk109's Avatar Zuk109 10:54 PM 08-15-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosferatu View Post


I'm big into cars so think of it as such...

Small 4 banger versus big V8

Small 4 banger (small sub) needs lots of RPMs (watts) to make the horsepower (SPL) as a big V8 which has tons of torque so that it needs only a small amout of RPMs (watts) to make the horsepower (SPL).

Help? I'm a car guy sorry...

I appreciate and totally understand your analogy, thanks!
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