Elemental Designs amp failures - Page 4 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: Has your eD amp failed within 1 year?
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Yes, but was serviced to original condition timely 0 0%
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post #91 of 223 Old 10-15-2011, 05:23 AM
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My a5-350 with the lt.500 is just about 1 year old now, it gets used pretty much every day and still works like new. i really like it, in fact i would already have purchased a second sub but the amps have been on backorder since all summer. i would be lying if i said i wasnt nervous about needing a replacement amp real quick at this point.
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post #92 of 223 Old 10-15-2011, 08:16 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PubFiction View Post

One other anecdotal totally not scientific thing, I seem to see alot of people who have multiple amp failures and to me that suggests it may be a setup problem or lack of a safety feature in their amps.

Now that is something taken right out of the eD playbook. Blame the customer not the product
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post #93 of 223 Old 10-15-2011, 08:50 AM
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Thats why car audio enthusiasts gave up on ED along time ago. Go browse a car audio forum and search for Elemental Designs. Most on there have had problems with their sub driver warranty 5yrs warranty but yet it never get honored, the most common excuse is "you over powered it" "you didn't use it right" "our drivers are sound quality drivers no SPL, so you must have used it as SPL so no you have to pay to get it fixed"

Ben Milne said on EDs forum about this thread (AVS ED amp Failure): "You have 250k+ customers. 10 logged in names just said you f'd up.

Take it with a grain of salt."

Really?!?! Take it with a grain of salt?!?!?! Thats how you respond to customers who bought poor quality merchandise, and are now wanting it fixed within its so call warranty period. So Jmilt13 I guess according to Ben Milne and ED is no big deal just take it with a grain of salt. And with Alexlinderman coming up with excuses over and over again, didn't another company whose no longer around come up with non stop excuses as to why nothing was getting done, with poor quality equipment?
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post #94 of 223 Old 10-15-2011, 11:31 AM
 
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Originally Posted by gtpsuper24 View Post

Thats why car audio enthusiasts gave up on ED along time ago. Go browse a car audio forum and search for Elemental Designs. Most on there have had problems with their sub driver warranty 5yrs warranty but yet it never get honored, the most common excuse is "you over powered it" "you didn't use it right" "our drivers are sound quality drivers no SPL, so you must have used it as SPL so no you have to pay to get it fixed"

Ben Milne said on EDs forum about this thread (AVS ED amp Failure): "You have 250k+ customers. 10 logged in names just said you f'd up.

Take it with a grain of salt."

Really?!?! Take it with a grain of salt?!?!?! Thats how you respond to customers who bought poor quality merchandise, and are now wanting it fixed within its so call warranty period. So Jmilt13 I guess according to Ben Milne and ED is no big deal just take it with a grain of salt. And with Alexlinderman coming up with excuses over and over again, didn't another company whose no longer around come up with non stop excuses as to why nothing was getting done, with poor quality equipment?

I was thinking the same thing and almost posted it but didnt want to get a flame war going. But it is very similiar to that other company (av123) that is no longer around with the exception I dont think Alex is stealing monies from raffles held on their forums LOL

BTW who is Ben Milne? Look at what happened to Emotiva and the UMC 1 (EPIC FAIL) when all the fanbois on their forums would post crap like that
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post #95 of 223 Old 10-15-2011, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtpsuper24 View Post

Ben Milne said on EDs forum about this thread (AVS ED amp Failure): "You have 250k+ customers. 10 logged in names just said you f'd up.

Take it with a grain of salt.

I worked in sales for many years, and my sales manager Rich once told me: If you piss off one customer, that one dissatisfied customer will tell 10 of his friends and family not to do business with you. Keep the customer happy, always. A happy customer will tell everyone that they know to do business with you. It's in our best interest to keep all of our customers happy...So simple, and I never forgot those words, and now that I run my own business, I always make sure that my customers don't have a bad experience when doing business with me. To say take it with a grain of salt, with an attitude like that, ED will not be in business for too much longer.

-Jeff
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post #96 of 223 Old 10-15-2011, 12:26 PM
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Yikes, this thing is spinning out of control. I voted in this poll and should not have done that. I had a different customer service issue with ED several years ago and was never really satisfied with the outcome so I chose to express the old bad feelings here. My vote was misleading and so I thought better of it later that day and asked a Forum Admin to delete my vote but was told he could not do that and that the thread would probably just go away as these things tend to do.

Well anyway, the CS/QA issues here seem very real and should be dealt with quickly and as openly as possible. In this tough new economy and CS simply cannot be ignored.

PS, I'd still like my vote retracted ...

HToM

"Who are you, who are so wise in the ways of science?"
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post #97 of 223 Old 10-15-2011, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by GSDTrainer View Post

Now that is something taken right out of the eD playbook. Blame the customer not the product

subwoofers aint dummy proof
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post #98 of 223 Old 10-15-2011, 07:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by badoutahell View Post

subwoofers aint dummy proof

So what you are saying is that anyone who has had the speaker or amp fail on an eD sub is an idiot and its their fault? Its nice to see that your fanboyism doesnt show through in your posts
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post #99 of 223 Old 10-15-2011, 07:54 PM
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no im just saying ive seen people break stuff and its not necessarily the equipments fault. i also think subwoofers draw that crowd. i personally think this is more a supply issue because my amp works fine
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post #100 of 223 Old 10-15-2011, 08:04 PM
 
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Originally Posted by badoutahell View Post

no im just saying ive seen people break stuff and its not necessarily the equipments fault. i also think subwoofers draws that crowd. i personally think this is a more a supply issue because my amp works fine

That makes no sense. You plug a cable in, set your gain, run audyssey (or whatever your AVR has) and for 99.9% of the people thats it. How can you break the amp or speaker if thats all you do? Search this forum alone for amp failures for eD. There have been problems for years. I've been here since 05 and can remember a few years back this same thing happening with a lot of people. And now it seems to have reared its ugly head again. Also just because your amp works fine doesnt mean that anyone who has a faulty amp from eD is at fault. There seems to be bad CS at eD and a "blame the consumer" attitude. Read Ethans thread about his treatment from Alex an eD with a brand new sub that had multiple problems and IIRC he had to shell out more money before they would fix it.
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post #101 of 223 Old 10-15-2011, 08:18 PM
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makes no sence? all you have to do is crank the knob to far. as far as cs idk sounds like they dont have replacment amps and no thats not my fault or yours. i think whoever runs that place better come up with a solution or kiss there ass goodbye. hows that for fanboyism
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post #102 of 223 Old 10-15-2011, 08:53 PM
 
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Read THIS thread. Well just the first page then jump to page 4. Also if people are on this forum I think they would know better than to "crank the knob" since they are here researching a purchase . Again with the blame the consumer attitude
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post #103 of 223 Old 10-15-2011, 09:08 PM
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maybe they have a warehouse packed full of amps but they only send them to certain people. you might not be on the list. just joking, but what amp are you waiting on that failed
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post #104 of 223 Old 10-16-2011, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badoutahell View Post

makes no sence? all you have to do is crank the knob to far.

Then if thats true why is it that EDs are the only ones breaking. We don't hear much about SVS's, HSUs, Axiom, Paradigm, PSB, Emotiva, amps breaking and not getting a timely replacement. I never though that cranking the gain up on the amp would ruin the amp, should the driver go first?
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post #105 of 223 Old 10-16-2011, 08:48 PM
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In their defense, many ID audio companies have been having supply problems in the last year. This is not unique to ED. Customers must understand...if the delays are related to parts shortages...speculating or giving out an estimated delivery date is just a "gotcha game"...then if that shipment is late (beyond their control) they are the bad guys AGAIN.

My (unsolicited advice) to Elemental Designs:
Customers just want a response. Even if the response is, "we don't know"...that's infinitely better than radio silence.

Alex...sorry to hear about health problems in your family. Taking care of such things has to come first. At the same time, considering this thread had already been started prior to that, I would think someone else at the company either in customer service, or ownership/management would want to be watching this thread and making sure there weren't any customers needing attention.
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post #106 of 223 Old 10-17-2011, 08:40 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vitaminbass View Post

In their defense, many ID audio companies have been having supply problems in the last year. This is not unique to ED. Customers must understand...if the delays are related to parts shortages...speculating or giving out an estimated delivery date is just a "gotcha game"...then if that shipment is late (beyond their control) they are the bad guys AGAIN.

My (unsolicited advice) to Elemental Designs:
Customers just want a response. Even if the response is, "we don't know"...that's infinitely better than radio silence.

Alex...sorry to hear about health problems in your family. Taking care of such things has to come first. At the same time, considering this thread had already been started prior to that, I would think someone else at the company either in customer service, or ownership/management would want to be watching this thread and making sure there weren't any customers needing attention.

Parts shortages wouldnt be a problem if their amps didnt keep breaking. So your arguement in their defense kinda falls flat
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post #107 of 223 Old 10-17-2011, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSDTrainer View Post

Now that is something taken right out of the eD playbook. Blame the customer not the product

We are in no way blaming the customer here. When someone has an issue, in or out of warranty. We first try to isolate any potential issues in the setup which could cause damage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtpsuper24 View Post

Thats why car audio enthusiasts gave up on ED along time ago. Go browse a car audio forum and search for Elemental Designs. Most on there have had problems with their sub driver warranty 5yrs warranty but yet it never get honored, the most common excuse is "you over powered it" "you didn't use it right" "our drivers are sound quality drivers no SPL, so you must have used it as SPL so no you have to pay to get it fixed"

Ben Milne said on EDs forum about this thread (AVS ED amp Failure): "You have 250k+ customers. 10 logged in names just said you f'd up.

Take it with a grain of salt."

Really?!?! Take it with a grain of salt?!?!?! Thats how you respond to customers who bought poor quality merchandise, and are now wanting it fixed within its so call warranty period. So Jmilt13 I guess according to Ben Milne and ED is no big deal just take it with a grain of salt. And with Alexlinderman coming up with excuses over and over again, didn't another company whose no longer around come up with non stop excuses as to why nothing was getting done, with poor quality equipment?

Car audio and home audio are two completely different markets as I am sure you are aware. When a speaker comes back with severe damage not associated with normal use. Its obviously not a construction defect. With car audio you find many people using incorrect enclosures, or excessive amounts of power. One other factor is clean power vs dirty power. These are all variables not really encountered in home audio. Because of this, the only time we really see issues are from incorrect setup, or simply looking for more than what the speaker can produce.

In no way are we taking it with a grain of salt. If I had to guess. Ben was referring to the un scientific nature of the numbers.

You also omitted Mr Milne's next line:

"Always remember your client comes first and never stop working to fix what you screw up. Anyone who contacts you bend over backwards just like you always have to fix the problem... And never stop..."

That comment comes across as the opposite of not caring.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GSDTrainer View Post

So what you are saying is that anyone who has had the speaker or amp fail on an eD sub is an idiot and its their fault? Its nice to see that your fanboyism doesnt show through in your posts

I do not take his comment as that at all. I simply take it, as issues happen and sometimes can be caused from the customer, same goes for the issue can relate to a construction defect. It works both ways, and in both situations we work to correct the custom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GSDTrainer View Post

That makes no sense. You plug a cable in, set your gain, run audyssey (or whatever your AVR has) and for 99.9% of the people thats it. How can you break the amp or speaker if thats all you do? Search this forum alone for amp failures for eD. There have been problems for years. I've been here since 05 and can remember a few years back this same thing happening with a lot of people. And now it seems to have reared its ugly head again. Also just because your amp works fine doesnt mean that anyone who has a faulty amp from eD is at fault. There seems to be bad CS at eD and a "blame the consumer" attitude. Read Ethans thread about his treatment from Alex an eD with a brand new sub that had multiple problems and IIRC he had to shell out more money before they would fix it.


This is not always the safest way to calibrate. Any many customers dont just leave it there.

Ricci had a great post about what Audyssey does to the systems levels, and how it can cause more harm than good.

I do not recall Ethans situation specifically, but if I do remember, the suspension was damaged due to overexcursion of the woofer. This can be caused by something similar to what Ricci tested, or simply having the level set too higher. What Ricci tested was Audyssey applied something like 10db of boost from 10hz and down. This caused driver excursion issues.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gtpsuper24 View Post

Then if thats true why is it that EDs are the only ones breaking. We don't hear much about SVS's, HSUs, Axiom, Paradigm, PSB, Emotiva, amps breaking and not getting a timely replacement. I never though that cranking the gain up on the amp would ruin the amp, should the driver go first?

We are working with different vendors as them most likely.

As for the amplifier gains being cranked, it can cause issues with the amplifier a couple ways.

If the speaker is fairly over built for the system, it can handle some clipping/ distortion for some time. Some amplifiers are setup to have limiting circuitry that pulls back the signal and prevents clipping/ distortion, but if you present distortion into the amplifier, they cannot correct this and still produce clean signal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vitaminbass View Post

Alex...sorry to hear about health problems in your family. Taking care of such things has to come first.

Thank you for the kind words. It was an uncle with a stroke in his brain stem which is very rare.

Once again, anyone who feels that we are not correcting their situation, that is not the case. We are doing everything in our power to make sure their product is back up and running as soon as possible.

As of today we have a new technician trained in on warranty return/ repairs. We did this to help address return lead times, and keep more contact with the customers.

If anyone feels like their return has gone longer than it should have, or they have been left in the dark, I encourage them to email me direct at alexl@edesignaudio.com, I will personally make sure the new technician, Branson addresses their needs ASAP.
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post #108 of 223 Old 10-17-2011, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by GSDTrainer View Post

Parts shortages wouldnt be a problem if their amps didnt keep breaking. So your arguement in their defense kinda falls flat

Good point, but I believe this was as much, or more about how the customer service was handled...vs. the quality of the amp.

It's hard to imagine how, after being in business for years, and obviously having pretty respectable cash flow, such a company couldn't just upsize say, 5% to where they were stocking more subs and amps. Work a bit of extra overtime, increase this or that order, whatever. But, having been in mfg. for years, I can say this is not as easilly done as it appears it would be.
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post #109 of 223 Old 10-21-2011, 07:49 AM
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I have worked with Alex and Brett many times and I have never once been disappointed. They are always bending over backwards to help answer any questions or go the extra mile. Speak with Alex and he will help you out.
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post #110 of 223 Old 10-21-2011, 08:42 AM
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I don't want to pile on, nor take sides, AND I don't like making generalizations, but...


Using the car audio side of anything as a template to something else is a dangerous game, IMO.

I have to tell you that a good sum of the most thick-headed dunderheads I've ever encountered are car audio "enthusiasts" who are ALL of the following:

1. uninformed.
2. ill-informed
3. and due to the above *and other factors): many times abusive to their gear

Realize this doesn't mean ALL. And I'm certain there are a number in the field who could run circles around my me in the audio-knowledge dept, but I am almost certain- as a percentage- there exists a grossly larger number of them in car audio than their enthusiast counterparts in the home venue.

I can only imagine (as Alex mentioned) some the scenarios a good number of ED products have been exposed to in the trunks and backseats of vehicles, nation-wide.

for what it's worth.


James

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Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

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post #111 of 223 Old 10-21-2011, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

I don't want to pile on, nor take sides, AND I don't like making generalizations, but...


Using the car audio side of anything as a template to something else is a dangerous game, IMO.

I have to tell you that a good sum of the most thick-headed dunderheads I've ever encountered are car audio "enthusiasts" who are ALL of the following:

1. uninformed.
2. ill-informed
3. and due to the above *and other factors): many times abusive to their gear

Realize this doesn't mean ALL. And I'm certain there are a number in the field who could run circles around my me in the audio-knowledge dept, but I am almost certain- as a percentage- there exists a grossly larger number of them in car audio than their enthusiast counterparts in the home venue.

I can only imagine (as Alex mentioned) some the scenarios a good number of ED products have been exposed to in the trunks and backseats of vehicles, nation-wide.

for what it's worth.


James

Hello James.

I would have to agree to a point.

But I will say that a larger percentage of our car audio clients have more knowledge about driver design and parameter than our general home audio client.

But this is for a few reasons. First off, our car audio clients are not your typical "I want to be heard from three blocks away."

They are enthusiasts who actually like to listen to music. Our average car audio client is 22-35 year old male looking to upgrade sound in their daily driver. In our early days it was the SPL crowd, but we moved away from that group pretty quickly.

The car audio customers purchasing from us are doing installations themselves generally, so they have slightly more knowledge than the typical Best Buy consumer having their product installed for them.

Our home audio customers, while many have the ability to DIY choose not to because of the value we and other internet direct companies offer. The home audio products are generally easier to hook up when compared to removing a dash in a new vehicle.
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post #112 of 223 Old 10-21-2011, 10:09 AM
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^ I understand, but I still feel a much larger number of folks within the car audio realm are more inclined to push their equipment to and beyond its limits much more often than a typical home user.

I also understand that the nature of your products lends itself to the more intellectually inclined enthusiast, but news of good "cheap" equipment spreads like wildfire in an industry where there's a million $800 cars with $2,000 sound systems, and you can bet that a considerable number of your products fall into the hands of folks much less knowledgeable (and "aggressive") than your target market. But it seems you already know that given your text above.

Prolly more simply (and to some- unfairly) put: I just think the age, listening habits and ZEAL of car audio enthusiasts is/are quite "different" than those of the typical home audio environment.

And although we cannot prove it conclusively, I'd be willing to bet you see many, many, more unwarranted warranty claims (overall or as a percentage) with the former than the latter.

Have a great weekend.


James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #113 of 223 Old 10-21-2011, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

^ I understand, but I still feel a much larger number of folks within the car audio realm are more inclined to push their equipment to and beyond its limits much more often than a typical home user.

I also understand that the nature of your products lends itself to the more intellectually inclined enthusiast, but news of good "cheap" equipment spreads like wildfire in an industry where there's a million $800 cars with $2,000 sound systems, and you can bet that a considerable number of your products fall into the hands of folks much less knowledgeable (and "aggressive") than your target market. But it seems you already know that given your text above.

Prolly more simply (and to some- unfairly) put: I just think the age, listening habits and ZEAL of car audio enthusiasts is/are quite "different" than those of the typical home audio environment.

And although we cannot prove it conclusively, I'd be willing to bet you see many, many, more unwarranted warranty claims (overall or as a percentage) with the former than the latter.

Have a great weekend.


James

As an industry in general. That would be correct. Car audio clients are going to be harder on products. We just luck out and get the more knowledgeable clients.

Please do not take my previous post as arguing. Simply stating that our clients are a little different than the typical piss everyone off with "outside bass".

hahah

You have a great weekend as well.
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post #114 of 223 Old 10-21-2011, 01:44 PM
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I've a loud audible hum from my amp in my A7S-450. I've e-mailed Alex twice about this and asked what could be done, but haven't received an answer.
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post #115 of 223 Old 10-27-2011, 12:40 PM
 
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So have any customers that have had an amp fail had any resolution from eD?
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post #116 of 223 Old 10-28-2011, 03:48 PM
 
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No one?
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post #117 of 223 Old 10-28-2011, 08:16 PM
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I can say that I would be much more likely to blow out a component with "other than music" which includes home theater and sine waves.

Music-I know what a healthy kick drum (for example) sounds like, and it's obvious when limits are pushed and it's time to back it off a notch. Most music is fairly predictable, and tends to be listed to repeatedly...so if there were to be a "bass drop" somewhere in a song, I know where it is and will prepare accordingly.

Movies-tend to have one or two scenes with big bass, and even on movies I watch multiple times...proper calibration is difficult for me. So the subs go from sleeping, to being slammed, sometimes without warning.

Sine waves-no time for the coils to rest and insufficient airflow vs. heat created at certain frequencies. Even with the caution I take, no doubt it puts the driver through more stress than most music.
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post #118 of 223 Old 02-20-2012, 06:14 PM
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I placed an order for 2 A5-350's 3 weeks ago. I was told that it would be shipped in 3 weeks, so last Friday I sent them an e-mail and as I didn't get any reply I e-mailed them twice again. Still no reply. Today I tried to chat with them but no one came online....I've tried to chat more than 25 times(over 8 hours). So was thinking if they were ignoring me intentionally. I used a different name and someone came online then again I tried to chat with my name and they wouldn't. I've done this 3 times and they would chat if I used a different name and not if I used my name. I was so pissed, is this how a company treats their customer? I'm seriously thinking of canceling it and ordering HSU vtf3mk4 or SVS PB12NSD.
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post #119 of 223 Old 02-20-2012, 06:46 PM
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I would just not put up with being treated like that there are just to many manufacturers out there wanting to earn my money. I would call if no one answers leave a message that your going to cancel if you do not get a call back by certain date. If no call back contact your credit card company let them know what's happening get money back move on to company that appreciates you.
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post #120 of 223 Old 02-20-2012, 08:57 PM
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I just don't understand how they could do that. Even if they respond to me and ship it tomorrow, there is no guarantee that they would offer good service/support in future. When I'm spending $1560(isolation pads included), I would expect some response even if it's something like it's going to take couple more weeks rather than just ignoring. I don't mind waiting but not replying and ignoring...that isn't acceptable. I just can't digest the fact that would not chat with me when I used my name but would chat when I used another name. It's sick.
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