List of budget subwoofers ($300 and less) - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 1214 Old 06-18-2012, 06:52 AM
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If you want a good budget 8", grab the Mirage Omni S8 off Amazon. It has gotten some great reviews on Amazon and Crutchfield. I just wouldn't risk the unknown Yaro sub, especially since (a) the 23hz for a ported sub seems unrealistic at that price and (b) they couldn't even remember to include the sub driver size in their main product description there.

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post #272 of 1214 Old 06-18-2012, 09:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k3kiaze View Post

However I came across this subwoofer - YARO SUB. It has some good specs, but i can't find any reviews of it anywhere. It's prolly a new model. I'd like to know if anyone's heard of this or can advice me on it.

I don't know anything about that one, but it fits the criteria so I'll add it to the list.

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post #273 of 1214 Old 06-18-2012, 10:03 AM
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According to the "Introduction" section of the owner's manual (PDF):
Quote:
YAROsub uses a 150 Watt high-power amplifier ...

According to the "Specifications" section:
Quote:
- FR: 23-180Hz +/- ?dB
- Typical THD: 0.09%
- Power: 2 x 47 watts RMS 4 Ω per channel @1.0% THD+N

And, last but not least, according to the "Subwoofer" sub-heading:
Quote:
- 200 watts 8" subwoofer
- 1.5" high temperature voice coil
- Long excursion santoprene surround
- 48oz. high density magnet
- 89dB @ 1W/1M
- FS: 38Hz
- Qts: 0.516
- Dimensions: N/A
- Weight: N/A


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post #274 of 1214 Old 06-18-2012, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

I don't know anything about that one, but it fits the criteria so I'll add it to the list.

alrighty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

If you want a good budget 8", grab the Mirage Omni S8 off Amazon. It has gotten some great reviews on Amazon and Crutchfield.

yeah i have the mirage s8 on my radar, would you recommend it over the BIC RTR-EV1200?
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post #275 of 1214 Old 06-18-2012, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k3kiaze View Post

Hi,
Thanks for putting up a great list of budget subwoofers, It's given me a few options to consider. However I came across this subwoofer - YARO SUB. It has some good specs, but i can't find any reviews of it anywhere. It's prolly a new model. I'd like to know if anyone's heard of this or can advice me on it. Thank you.

Eh, there are to many proven subs in this price range to risk $250 on an 8" sub from a company that specializes in fancy ipod docks

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882269026&Tpk=energy%20s10.3

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/stf-1.html

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/m8.html


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post #276 of 1214 Old 06-19-2012, 08:23 PM
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Any thoughts on the Dayton Audio 1200 vs. the Definitive Technology Pro Sub 60?
They are about the same price right now, and I'd like to add another sub.
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post #277 of 1214 Old 06-19-2012, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradman View Post

Any thoughts on the Dayton Audio 1200 vs. the Definitive Technology Pro Sub 60?
They are about the same price right now, and I'd like to add another sub.

There's only so much a small low powered 8" sub can do. The Dayton will definitely be far more capable. Your current sub, and room size would be useful though.


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post #278 of 1214 Old 06-20-2012, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

There's only so much a small low powered 8" sub can do. The Dayton will definitely be far more capable. Your current sub, and room size would be useful though.

I would be replacing an old Sony 12", or more accurately, using it as a second sub. I totally see the light on the small subs and have narrowed focus to the BIC 412, or perhaps the Polk 505.
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post #279 of 1214 Old 06-24-2012, 01:27 PM
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I picked up the Energy S10.3 from Newegg and it arrived Friday. I like it quite a bit so far in the few days I have had it. When the wife leaves I will have a better chance to test it out. wink.gif
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post #280 of 1214 Old 06-24-2012, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dledmo View Post

I picked up the Energy S10.3 from Newegg and it arrived Friday. I like it quite a bit so far in the few days I have had it. When the wife leaves I will have a better chance to test it out. wink.gif

Yeah, I pulled the trigger when it hit 169.99. Should be here in a few days.
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post #281 of 1214 Old 07-19-2012, 04:59 AM
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Klipsch Reference RW-12d for $300 on NewEgg with coupon code EMCNCJA36.
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post #282 of 1214 Old 07-29-2012, 11:25 AM
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Just a bit of information. I own a pair of Klipsch RW12ds and a pair of BIC PL-200s. I have read some people talk about port noise from the RW12d. I have had these subs for about a year now and have never heard any strange port noise coming from either sub until last night. I watching War Horse and the scene that I played back a few times was when the girl Emily was talking to her father and the sounds of bombs were very clear in the distance. One of the bombs went off and a heard a weird rattling sound from the front of my theater where I have the Klipsch subs. I played the scene back and found that my Terminator Salvation poster near the front was shaking but it was also the Klipsch subs. I removed the grill and turned the lights up a little to see the movement of the woofer. I played the scene again and the woofer was moving very hard and making a little flapping noise. The port was spitting out a lot of air. I then went to the rear of my theater and played the scene again while getting close to my PL-200s. There was no port noise at all and the port was also spitting out plenty of air. There was also no flapping noise from the PL-200. I was wondering could this be from the material of the surrounds. The PL-200 uses a foam surround while the Klisch has a rubber surround. I have played plenty of hard hitting movies in my room but never had this happen before. I have watched WOTW, Tron, Cloverfield etc but never heard any problems. It made me think that maybe the PL-200s are able to handle stronger deeper effects than the Klipsch.

Klipsch Synergy 3 speakers (LCR & surrounds)
dual Klipsch RW 12d
dual BIC PL-200
120" DIY 16:9 screen
Panasonic PT AX 200U projector
Panasonic BMP-BD35 blu-ray
Velodyne SMS-1
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post #283 of 1214 Old 07-29-2012, 08:04 PM
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Just used my SMS-1 to change the EQ setting on my subs. Initially I reduced the mid frequencies way down and raised the volume to increase the low end. I raised the mid band frequencies up and lowered the volume on the SMS-1 to give more headroom. This lowered the lower end but not by that much. It was just enough to remove those unwanted port noises from my Klipsch subs. I rewatched the same scene and the bass was great without any noised from the port.

Klipsch Synergy 3 speakers (LCR & surrounds)
dual Klipsch RW 12d
dual BIC PL-200
120" DIY 16:9 screen
Panasonic PT AX 200U projector
Panasonic BMP-BD35 blu-ray
Velodyne SMS-1
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post #284 of 1214 Old 07-30-2012, 04:11 PM - Thread Starter
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EQ's are great, aren't they? Glad it all worked out for you.

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post #285 of 1214 Old 07-30-2012, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capricorn kid View Post

Just a bit of information. I own a pair of Klipsch RW12ds and a pair of BIC PL-200s. I have read some people talk about port noise from the RW12d. I have had these subs for about a year now and have never heard any strange port noise coming from either sub until last night. I watching War Horse and the scene that I played back a few times was when the girl Emily was talking to her father and the sounds of bombs were very clear in the distance. One of the bombs went off and a heard a weird rattling sound from the front of my theater where I have the Klipsch subs. I played the scene back and found that my Terminator Salvation poster near the front was shaking but it was also the Klipsch subs. I removed the grill and turned the lights up a little to see the movement of the woofer. I played the scene again and the woofer was moving very hard and making a little flapping noise. The port was spitting out a lot of air. I then went to the rear of my theater and played the scene again while getting close to my PL-200s. There was no port noise at all and the port was also spitting out plenty of air. There was also no flapping noise from the PL-200. I was wondering could this be from the material of the surrounds. The PL-200 uses a foam surround while the Klisch has a rubber surround. I have played plenty of hard hitting movies in my room but never had this happen before. I have watched WOTW, Tron, Cloverfield etc but never heard any problems. It made me think that maybe the PL-200s are able to handle stronger deeper effects than the Klipsch.

Hey bud,

I believe the Klipsch is making port noise and struggling preciously because it is reproducing lower frequencies in the war horse movie over the lack of such in the PL200. For example the BIC F12 is won't struggle in the lowest of the low movies including War of the Worlds, and HTTY dragon etc, not because it is fully capable of producing those low frequencies, but rather because it has an agressive HPF in place and it doesn't even try to reproduce those low frequencies. It might sound better on those scenes than a sub that tries (and fails) to accurate reproduce the frequencies that are sent it.

When you get a chance to graph both with the SMS-1 in the same position I'm very curious to see the results.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #286 of 1214 Old 07-30-2012, 07:43 PM
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I have the day off work tomorrow, I will get the camera out and get some screen shots from the SMS-1. I'll set the SMS-1 to a flat setting and post the results for my in room response for the dual Klipsch and dual PL-200s.

Klipsch Synergy 3 speakers (LCR & surrounds)
dual Klipsch RW 12d
dual BIC PL-200
120" DIY 16:9 screen
Panasonic PT AX 200U projector
Panasonic BMP-BD35 blu-ray
Velodyne SMS-1
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post #287 of 1214 Old 07-30-2012, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Hey bud,
I believe the Klipsch is making port noise and struggling preciously because it is reproducing lower frequencies in the war horse movie over the lack of such in the PL200. For example the BIC F12 is won't struggle in the lowest of the low movies including War of the Worlds, and HTTY dragon etc, not because it is fully capable of producing those low frequencies, but rather because it has an agressive HPF in place and it doesn't even try to reproduce those low frequencies. It might sound better on those scenes than a sub that tries (and fails) to accurate reproduce the frequencies that are sent it.
When you get a chance to graph both with the SMS-1 in the same position I'm very curious to see the results.
That does make sense because like I said, I played the scene over and over again and I seemed the PL-200 was not working as hard as the Klipsch. I took the grills off and watched the woofers on both. The Klipsch was really moving while the PL-200 was moving but not as much.

Klipsch Synergy 3 speakers (LCR & surrounds)
dual Klipsch RW 12d
dual BIC PL-200
120" DIY 16:9 screen
Panasonic PT AX 200U projector
Panasonic BMP-BD35 blu-ray
Velodyne SMS-1
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post #288 of 1214 Old 07-31-2012, 05:04 AM
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Fantastic,

Swap the subs out in an identical position for the measurements ensuring the driver is facing the same direction. Even very minor differences in mic position or sub position really effect subwoofer frequency response in room. For the comparison to hold water the subs need to be in the same placement.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #289 of 1214 Old 07-31-2012, 05:35 PM
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Hey Archaea, here is the information you wanted to see.
First here is a break down of my budget theater room.
25 X 13 X 8
Sony STR DG720 receiver
Panasonic blu-ray player DMP BD-35
Sony DVD player NS55P
Panasonic projector PT-AX 200u
Klipsch Synergy 3 speakers LCR and surrounds
Velodyne SMS-1
dual Klipsch RW12d subwoofers
dual BIC PL-200 subwoofers
120" fixed screen
first here are the Klipsch at the front of the room. The EQ on the SMS-1 is flat and the EQ on the Klipsch subs are set to flat.




Next I moved the PL-200s to the front of the theater.



There is a difference in the lower end response. The mic was at the main listening seat during these measurments. The PL-200s seem to have a smoother roll off than the RW12ds. Could this be the reason the Klipsch were spitting out port noise during that scene in War Horse and the PL-200s showed no signs of stress?
PL-200

RW12D

Klipsch Synergy 3 speakers (LCR & surrounds)
dual Klipsch RW 12d
dual BIC PL-200
120" DIY 16:9 screen
Panasonic PT AX 200U projector
Panasonic BMP-BD35 blu-ray
Velodyne SMS-1
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post #290 of 1214 Old 07-31-2012, 08:08 PM
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Excellent work capricorn kid. Your post deserves its own thread, and not to be burried in this one. I'd welcome you to make a thread with these measurements for potential BIC PL200 vs. Klipsch RW-12D buyers.

Your graphs confirm what was expected to see in regards to the bottom end of these two subs.

Ignore the 40hz drop that shows up in your screenprints. It occurs on both pairs of subs, meaning it is a room and sub placement anomoly that is unique to your room. If you ignore the 40hz anomoly you can see the Klipsch response between 25hz and 80hz is much flatter than the PL200 response. The smoothing enabled on the SMS-1 hides the true frequency response to a degree, and I suspect is a bit inaccurate as compared to something like the omnimic, but since they were both measured by the same tool you can still definately see a difference.


The 80hz drop off on both subs can be ignored as well for the pairs tested because:
1) your crossover appears to be either 80 hz or 100hz
2) your 40hz null in your room will repeat at multiples of itself. So 40hz, 80hz, 160hz, 320hz etc.

One might say - well heck it's only several dB difference down low so why's that matter? To that I respond that 3dB requires a doubling of power, and 6dB and quadroupling of power. Having 3dB more at 20hz is like adding a second non co-located subwoofer and 6dB more is the eqivalent of running two subs double stacked. So 3dB or 6dB is a significant difference down low. Not to mention a flatter frequency response measurement is ideal for many reasons aside from ability to produce the low frequencies. If your subwoofer has a 50hz peak of 6dB over a 30hz peak (as the PL200 shows) it's as if you had two subs stacked playing a 50hz tone and only one sub playing a 30hz tone. Which tone do you think would be more pronounced? And a six dB difference in frequency response is probably about the best most of the people on this forum can hope to have without measuring gear. If your room makes that 6dB difference worse then you can really get some terribly responses. It's better to start out with the frequency response as flat as possible, and the Klipsch does that function more effectively than the BIC.

What EQ did you run the Klipsch in? Flat, Music? or Depth? In my experimentation on the Klipsch subs, the depth setting produced the flattest frequency response of any of the three modes.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1390563/klipsch-rw-12d-omnimic-frequency-response-graphs/0_20


Look what happens when we ignore the 40hz area null in your room! Sorry the mock up isn't more professional - but you get the idea.

PL-200
2iw116p.png


RW-12D
flbt75.png


That is a very solid advantage to the Klipsch in the flat frequency response department. Just as would be expected for a originally priced $600 subwoofer vs. a originally priced $300 subwoofer. And as we discussed before, the reason the RW-12D made bad noises on that heavy bass movie was that it was trying to reproduce the frequencies requested of it by the source material, while the BIC comfortably said, nope, I can't dig that deep, so I'm not even going to try. This is because the BIC PL200 employees a more agressive high pass filter in the amp accompanied with the box and driver spec/design. It's a design choice and it eeks out more spl at the expense of extension.

NOW this isn't to say the BIC PL200 is bad. To the contrary. Some might prefer this design decision ---where it stays clean at loud volumes playing demanding source material. But the Klipsch is definately more accurate to the original source, and if kept within its limits --- the more desirable sub, at least in my strong opinion.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #291 of 1214 Old 07-31-2012, 08:20 PM
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BTW - capricorn kid, oftentimes you can rid yourself a 40hz or 50hz null by simply moving your subs around. You should give that a go. You'll like the result if you can get that graph flatter. Try moving your subs closer to the corners of the room, or more towards the center, try moving them closer or farther away from the wall, try toeing them in a bit, or try adjusting your speaker crossover from 80 to 100 or 120 or something. Just try some different options and start with the flattest response you can manage.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #292 of 1214 Old 07-31-2012, 08:40 PM
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interesting, i already purchased the 12d so it doesnt really matter for my purposes, but could you argue in favor of the pl200 when just looking at the 15hz -20hz range? again, i already bought the 12d and am glad i did after seeing this, just curious on the sub-20hz range on this comparison. thanks capricorn kid
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post #293 of 1214 Old 07-31-2012, 09:15 PM
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I ran the Klipsch in the FLAT mode to get a pure response. In my normal setting I run them in the DEPTH setting. Also as far as the 40hz dip, it does go away somewhat with the Klipsch phase setting at 40* and I have the PL-200 on the rear right corner of my theater with the phase set at 180*. The other PL-200 phase is set at 0*. Also with a little help from the SMS-1 the response is smooth up to a little past 100hz. My crossover setting is at 100hz in the Sony receiver and I disabled it in the SMS-1. With all four running together I get a really good in room response. I have the Klipsch up front between the fronts and center channel while the PL-200s are corner loaded in the rear.

Klipsch Synergy 3 speakers (LCR & surrounds)
dual Klipsch RW 12d
dual BIC PL-200
120" DIY 16:9 screen
Panasonic PT AX 200U projector
Panasonic BMP-BD35 blu-ray
Velodyne SMS-1
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post #294 of 1214 Old 07-31-2012, 09:55 PM
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i think you already did this but i dont remember where, but could you post your graph again where you have all 4 subs running? if i remember right, it was crazy flat
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post #295 of 1214 Old 07-31-2012, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgrotel View Post

i think you already did this but i dont remember where, but could you post your graph again where you have all 4 subs running? if i remember right, it was crazy flat
I have made a few adjustments since then. I raised the mid range up a little and lowered the volume some. It still looks really good but the doing so lowered the bottom some but not by much.
Here is a picture of the old graph before the adjustments. I don't have a recent picture of where I have it now. I'm still playing with it.
Here are all four subs running together.

Klipsch Synergy 3 speakers (LCR & surrounds)
dual Klipsch RW 12d
dual BIC PL-200
120" DIY 16:9 screen
Panasonic PT AX 200U projector
Panasonic BMP-BD35 blu-ray
Velodyne SMS-1
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post #296 of 1214 Old 07-31-2012, 11:22 PM
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awesome, i have a feeling i will be needing a second sub to compliment my rw-12d. do you recommend that i get another rw-12d or should i get a pl-200?
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post #297 of 1214 Old 08-01-2012, 12:22 AM
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Neither of these subs produce anything below 20hz. As capricorn kid turns up the volume that left end of the graph will stop looking so flat. Even if he has crazy strong room gain to assist.

You'll note the sms-1 in the final four sub take has cut anywhere from 6 to 12db off every frequeny band to try to get these four subs mostly flat to 20hz.

Also keep in mind his combined frequency response doesn't look flat because he added pl200s to the klipsch subs. Instead its because the sms-1 applied eq by essentially cutting out all the higher frequency advantages of the pl200. If he only used klipsch subs there would be less to pull down by the eq process.

The sms-1 is what is working to capricorns advantage on the flat frequency response taken with all four subs. It has nothing to do with some unique marriage of the klipsch and the bic frquency response in and of themselves.

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post #298 of 1214 Old 08-01-2012, 04:57 AM
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Exactly. I cut all of the mid frequencies down a great deal to achieve that. I don't have it set up this was now. I raised the mid bands up and lowered the volume down on the SMS-1. If you notice in the screen shot for the flat response the volume on the SMS-1 is at 32. On the testing I did to compare the two I have the volume at 14. This is where I have it set at now. From 20hz to 15hz I'm dropping down about 8dbs.

Klipsch Synergy 3 speakers (LCR & surrounds)
dual Klipsch RW 12d
dual BIC PL-200
120" DIY 16:9 screen
Panasonic PT AX 200U projector
Panasonic BMP-BD35 blu-ray
Velodyne SMS-1
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post #299 of 1214 Old 08-01-2012, 05:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgrotel View Post

awesome, i have a feeling i will be needing a second sub to compliment my rw-12d. do you recommend that i get another rw-12d or should i get a pl-200?
I personally would go with 2 RW-12ds. Even without a separate eq, the RW-12d has a phase control that can be adjusted in 10 degree steps. That can help out alot with getting a good response. Also you can play with the flat, depth and punch settings.

Klipsch Synergy 3 speakers (LCR & surrounds)
dual Klipsch RW 12d
dual BIC PL-200
120" DIY 16:9 screen
Panasonic PT AX 200U projector
Panasonic BMP-BD35 blu-ray
Velodyne SMS-1
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post #300 of 1214 Old 08-01-2012, 07:13 AM
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thanks
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Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

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