Narrow sub(s)? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 22 Old 10-11-2011, 08:38 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm looking for 2 narrow subs around 15" wide each. I want something that will be flat or close to flat down to or below 20hz in my room which is approx 11x14with a vaulted ceiling that starts around 9' and goes up to around 14'.

Budget - I'd like to spend around $1000 for the pair, but if i had to i could go up to around $2000-$2500.

These will mostly be used for HT, but I may try them with 2 channel music as well. My speakers are Salk HT2-TLs powered by and AVA Ultra+ Double 550 amp. They have useable bass down in the mid to upper 20s in my room and seem to be able to "pressurize" the room at certain frequencies.

I have curtains all around the room. I have GIK 142s at the first reflection points and I have 144s in every corner.

I'm working on getting dedicated circuits ran.

If i can't find what i'm looking for, i can rearrange my room, and then almost any sub(s) will fit in the room.


The last sub I had was a Dayton Titanic with a 1000W RMS amp. It had almost enough output for me, but it was no where near accurate enough for me, even with movies.

I plan to purchase something this week, so that seems to rule Rythmik out.

My room is small, so something that focuses more on low end extension rather than max SPL would be nice. I used to have 2, 15" subs in my car and really liked the ability of that system to play sub 20hz material.

I'm very limited on placement, and it looks like up front between my speakers is the only available space.

Current top pick is 2 Epik Legends. 2 Empires fit within my budget and space with grills removed, but I'm not sure I need quite that much output in my room.

Thanks for the help
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post #2 of 22 Old 10-11-2011, 08:47 AM
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Check this out:
http://www.chasehometheater.com/inde...art&Itemid=112

A pair will get you 103 db at 20 Hz.
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post #3 of 22 Old 10-11-2011, 08:47 AM
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Before reading your "top pick so far" I was thinking the only thing to fill those criteria would Epik Legends. You can keep searching but unless you change some of your criteria (like width or cost) I can't see anything else meeting your needs more than the Legend. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by them.
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post #4 of 22 Old 10-11-2011, 08:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capecodorthopod View Post

Before reading your "top pick so far" I was thinking the only thing to fill those criteria would Epik Legends. You can keep searching but unless you change some of your criteria (like width or cost) I can't see anything else meeting your needs more than the Legend. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by them.

About the only thing holding me back on those is the ability to play 20hz and lower. I think they'll be fine in my room though.
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post #5 of 22 Old 10-11-2011, 08:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy View Post

Check this out:
http://www.chasehometheater.com/inde...art&Itemid=112

A pair will get you 103 db at 20 Hz.

I haven't really looked at these. Thanks for the suggestion, I'll do some research.
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post #6 of 22 Old 10-11-2011, 08:56 AM
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The pair of Chase 10.2 will get you 95 db at 15 hz and 103 db at 20 Hz, all for $800 plus shipping.
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post #7 of 22 Old 10-11-2011, 08:56 AM
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Thanks Spyboy I forgot about the 10.2. The +/- 3dB point for the 10.2 is higher than the Legend which digs deeper than the 10.2
I also think Epik's black finish is nicer than the 10.2's. It seems the specs quoted for LF extension on the CHT site assumes a smaller room than the OP described so he probably will get less room gain than that table implies.
That said the CHT subs still provide excellent performance per dollar.
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post #8 of 22 Old 10-11-2011, 08:57 AM
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I do believe Outlaw Audio LFM-1 Plus fits your requirements unless a sealed sub is a must.

The specs are:

Driver Type: Down Firing, 12" Long-throw Woofer, Ports: Dual, Amplifier Power Rating: 350WRMS; 1300W peak, Frequency Response: 25Hz. -180Hz. +/- 2 dB w/o Port Plug, 18Hz.-180Hz +/-2dB w/ one port plugged, Crossover Type: Linkwitz-Reily 4th Order Low Pass Network, Crossover Frequency: 40Hz to 180Hz and Bypass, Phase: 0 to 180 Degrees, SPL: 115dB (subject to placement and room gain), Dimensions: (HxWxD) 21.50" x 15.0" x 22.0", Weight: 70 lbs

Shawn
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post #9 of 22 Old 10-11-2011, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy View Post

Check this out:
http://www.chasehometheater.com/inde...art&Itemid=112

A pair will get you 103 db at 20 Hz.

I was just wondering, what's the volume set to on the sub to produce 103 db at 20 Hz? I often see post where a sub produced 110 db at 20 or 15 Hz, and I always wonder what's the setting of the volume on the sub to produce that result.
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post #10 of 22 Old 10-11-2011, 10:18 AM - Thread Starter
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The 10.2 doesn't look bad for the money and the width is a big plus for me. At this point, I think I'll most likely either go with a pair of ledgends or 10.2s.

Thanks
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post #11 of 22 Old 10-11-2011, 10:25 AM
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If you are willing to go to the higher end of your budget and expect to play a fair amount of music I would consider a pair of Rythmik F12s.

Also note that Jim and Brian have a relationship, so you could have Jim build the subs with Rythmik drivers and servo amps and do it in matching veneer to your HT2s.

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post #12 of 22 Old 10-11-2011, 10:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick240 View Post

If you are willing to go to the higher end of your budget and expect to play a fair amount of music I would consider a pair of Rythmik F12s.

Also note that Jim and Brian have a relationship, so you could have Jim build the subs with Rythmik drivers and servo amps and do it in matching veneer to your HT2s.

Rythmiks look good, but they are out of stock. I've also built several subs in the past and have considered their DIY options.

I don't think i'll use these much for music except when I'm in the mood for something LOUD with lots of impact.

I have a surgery coming up though in 2 weeks, and wanted subs for my home theater to help pass the time while I recover. It doesn't look like rythmik an option for this except the FV12.

I asked Jim a while ago about building a couple subs for me. 2 F12s would exceed the upper end of my budget. I spent a lot of money on burled walnut veneer and my speakers are beautiful. I also recently got a matching center. I know it doesn't make much sense to put something like chase subs next to my salk speakers, but I really don't want to invest a ton of money in subs right now.


Here's a pic if anyone is interested. They look MUCH better in person though
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post #13 of 22 Old 10-11-2011, 10:47 AM
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Check out Emotiva's new X-Ref 12. Its sealed and has a built in EQ. It also has a movie mode that will add 6db below 30Hz. I have 2 of them in my 18x16x8 room and they rock the house. When im listening to music, I put them into flat mode and they are so smooth and tight, its not even funny. Audioholics should have their review on it by the end of the month and if its anything like Emotiva's last sealed sub. The Ultra 12. The reviews should be great being it has twice the power. 600 watts RMS....

Also, I think Emotiva is running a introductory price at $629 a piece or $1100 for two.
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post #14 of 22 Old 10-11-2011, 11:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ObsceneJesster View Post

Check out Emotiva's new X-Ref 12. Its sealed and has a built in EQ. It also has a movie mode that will add 6db below 30Hz. I have 2 of them in my 18x16x8 room and they rock the house. When im listening to music, I put them into flat mode and they are so smooth and tight, its not even funny. Audioholics should have their review on it by the end of the month and if its anything like Emotiva's last sealed sub. The Ultra 12. The reviews should be great being it has twice the power. 600 watts RMS....

Also, I think Emotiva is running a introductory price at $629 a piece or $1100 for two.

How do I get this price? I added 2 to my cart and it shows $1398.
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post #15 of 22 Old 10-11-2011, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ObsceneJesster View Post

Check out Emotiva's new X-Ref 12. Its sealed and has a built in EQ. It also has a movie mode that will add 6db below 30Hz. I have 2 of them in my 18x16x8 room and they rock the house. When im listening to music, I put them into flat mode and they are so smooth and tight, its not even funny. Audioholics should have their review on it by the end of the month and if its anything like Emotiva's last sealed sub. The Ultra 12. The reviews should be great being it has twice the power. 600 watts RMS....

Also, I think Emotiva is running a introductory price at $629 a piece or $1100 for two.

I don't think the Emotiva will give the output at 20hz and below the OP is looking for. It has a pretty steep rolloff below 30hz. It also appears movie mode bumps the response around 45hz and rolls off the response above 60hz, but does nothing below 30hz. I originally thought the overall level was increased in the movie mode graph. If the only difference between those two graphs is movie mode on/off and no levels were increased, it looks like there is an increase of 2db at 20hz, increasing to 5db between 30hz and 60hz. With an extra 1db bump centered at 45hz. Above 60hz, the increase rolls off down to a 1db increase at 200hz.

This is the response from emotiva with movie mode off.



with movie mode on



The naked response is similar to the ultra12 and I would expect similar results between the two with the x-ref having slightly higher output and slightly better low end response because of the new driver and more powerful amp.



-Mike
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post #16 of 22 Old 10-11-2011, 11:59 AM
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Have you considered two cylinder subs such as the SVsound legato system?

http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-cyl-legato.cfm

They are 16 5/8 " wide but you don't have to worry about the driver hitting anything. Also the tuneability of them makes them quite flexible for your room.
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post #17 of 22 Old 10-11-2011, 12:38 PM
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The Danley DTS-10 is only 16" wide

Dumb enough to spend lots of cash on this junk!
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post #18 of 22 Old 10-11-2011, 12:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kesando View Post

Have you considered two cylinder subs such as the SVsound legato system?

http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-cyl-legato.cfm

They are 16 5/8 " wide but you don't have to worry about the driver hitting anything. Also the tuneability of them makes them quite flexible for your room.

The subs need to fit under my projector screen, so I don't think these would work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

The Danley DTS-10 is only 16" wide

I do have room for 1 off to one side, but I don't think it's the best option for me.
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post #19 of 22 Old 10-11-2011, 01:23 PM
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15" wide http://axiomaudio.com/ep500.html#

Oops just seen its $1k or so for a pair sorry. Really nice Salks. Just deserve to have some nice looking subs beside them not those ugly Epiks or CHTs, nothing wrong with them but IMO kind of defeats the purpose of buying such nice speakers only to have two ugly black boxes sitting beside them
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post #20 of 22 Old 10-11-2011, 01:26 PM
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If you didn't need subs so soon I would consider calling Funky Waves to build you a pair of subs that not only meet your sound requirements but also match the finish of your salk mains.

http://funkywaves.net/catalog.cfm?item=fw_10_1
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post #21 of 22 Old 10-11-2011, 07:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtpsuper24 View Post

15" wide http://axiomaudio.com/ep500.html#

Oops just seen its $1k or so for a pair sorry. Really nice Salks. Just deserve to have some nice looking subs beside them not those ugly Epiks or CHTs, nothing wrong with them but IMO kind of defeats the purpose of buying such nice speakers only to have two ugly black boxes sitting beside them

Yeah I agree. I'd be fine with satin black subs though since they'd somewhat match my speakers.

Thanks for the other suggestions too. I've been trying to buy subs for almost a year and just can't make up my mind.
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post #22 of 22 Old 10-12-2011, 07:48 AM - Thread Starter
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I think i've decided on purchasing 1 Rythmik FV12. I remeasured last night, and I think a pair of these would fit since they are foward fireing unlike some of the other narrow subs.

Since there are no discounts for multiple FV12s, I plan on purchasing 1, seeing how it works in my room, and then deciding if i need another.

I also like the fact that this will only cost me about $500.

I'm still open to suggestions and would appreciate any positive or negative feedback on this decision.

Thanks
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