Captivator or Submersive? - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 262 Old 11-03-2011, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by kwarny View Post

Maybe it's the set-up or how you think something should sound mentally. Everyone has a different mentality of what sounds good or how it should sound. The way the drivers are arranged on the Songtower could hinder the performance if placed in suboptimal locations. If you are looking for deep extension, thick basslines, or output then these would not be ideal speakers either. The same goes for subwoofers. Saying this kills something is vague and misleading.

Defining how something sounds is usually always vague and possibly misleading. We had the Songtowers in my home first. They performed a little better than my 10 year old Paradigm Minimonitors. They looked awesome and the center channel was nice for dialog clarity. On music they were underwhelming and tended to seem a little harsh (probably distortion due to inefficiency). They went to his house next, after he got new carpet. There, he could never get the accurate sound he was looking for powered by his Emotiva amps. Tried 3 Quints up front and everything was then right.
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post #182 of 262 Old 11-03-2011, 04:58 PM
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Killing can and does happen. Last December when I first got my Captivator, I compared it directly to my PB13. In the world of subwoofers, the PB13 is no slouch. It is considered to be one of the big dogs. The Captivator unquestionably crushed the PB13. Not even close. As far as output goes, the SVS is a toy by comparison.
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post #183 of 262 Old 11-03-2011, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

Killing can and does happen. Last December when I first got my Captivator, I compared it directly to my PB13. In the world of subwoofers, the PB13 is no slouch. It is considered to be one of the big dogs. The Captivator unquestionably crushed the PB13. Not even close. As far as output goes, the SVS is a toy by comparison.

. I think I am starting to understand the bass heads. Kill = Output or maybe pressurization. I think I now get it.

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post #184 of 262 Old 11-03-2011, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by kwarny View Post


. I think I am starting to understand the bass heads. Kill = Output or maybe pressurization. I think I now get it.

Kyle you are in the minority, my friend.
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post #185 of 262 Old 11-03-2011, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by kwarny View Post

. I think I am starting to understand the bass heads. Kill = Output or maybe pressurization. I think I now get it.

you got it. You'll also notice this term used whenever hyperbole is required with any comparison. "My Santa Cruz Tallboy kills your Specialized Epic," for example. "My BMW kills your Hyundai."....... Stuff like that.
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post #186 of 262 Old 11-03-2011, 05:09 PM
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@kwarny...

you are getting closer...

not "just" output though... no one note wonders please... flat deep output, thank you...

and i'm not even the true bass head that some of these guys are... i only have a pair of subm hp's... albeit in 2000 cubic feet...

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post #187 of 262 Old 11-03-2011, 05:11 PM
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That's exactly what I mean by "kill." The Cap does not play deeper or flatter than the PB13, but it can play much, much louder without strain.
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post #188 of 262 Old 11-03-2011, 05:15 PM
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^^^

understood...

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post #189 of 262 Old 11-03-2011, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post

Kyle you are in the minority, my friend.

Ha ha I know. It's not like I don't like to feel the bass. I just been scorned with the servo. All I hear is time domain now . It is so hard to go to back. I almost got use to it listening at Dennis's house for 5 hours but then we plugged mine in again. Doh. I'm excited for the weekend when we can put three in your room. It will help me to decide if I should upgrade my mains or buy more subs first.

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Originally Posted by TCW1 View Post

you got it. You'll also noticed this term used whenever hyperbole is required with any comparison. "My Santa Cruz Tallboy kills your Specialized Epic," for example. "My BMW kills your Hyundai."....... Stuff like that.

I like this! Now I don't have to work on my least subject of English. Thanks guys.

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post #190 of 262 Old 11-03-2011, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Mojomike View Post

That's exactly what I mean by "kill." The Cap does not play deeper or flatter than the PB13, but it can play much, much louder without strain.

And all the people said amen.

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post #191 of 262 Old 11-03-2011, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Crabalocker View Post

I'm sure this question has been asked, probably many times before but if you were to choose which one would you buy, JTR-Captivator or a Seaton Submersive?

Congratulations on your future Submersive. It will kill the Captivator when it comes to pressurization.

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post #192 of 262 Old 11-03-2011, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by kwarny View Post


I like this! Now I don't have to work on my least subject of English. Thanks guys.

On second thought, maybe you should.
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post #193 of 262 Old 11-03-2011, 05:21 PM
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On second thought, maybe you should.

awesome...ish.
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post #194 of 262 Old 11-03-2011, 05:23 PM
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ok, I'm out. Heading to the trail for sweet night ride on my Tallboy that kills whatever you may have. (It's a bike, not a person.)
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post #195 of 262 Old 11-03-2011, 05:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwarny View Post

Congratulations on your future Submersive. It will kill the Captivator when it comes to pressurization.

Thanks, I can't wait till I get it! now the problem is..........I'm starting to crunch numbers to see if I can manage to get my second SubM now.......DON'T TELL MY WIFE!!!!!!
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post #196 of 262 Old 11-03-2011, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Crabalocker View Post

Thanks, I can't wait till I get it! now the problem is..........I'm starting to crunch numbers to see if I can manage to get my second SubM at the same time.......DON'T TELL MY WIFE!!!!!! PLEASE!!!!

Don't forget the third one that you deserve for Christmas and the fourth one after tax returns.

This is the reason why I will build a walk-in closet that opens up to my secret home theater.

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post #197 of 262 Old 11-03-2011, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by TCW1 View Post

ok, I'm out. Heading to the trail for sweet night ride on my Tallboy that kills whatever you may have. (It's a bike, not a person.)

Hmmm, ya... While your 'Cruz Tallboy is really lovely, my pimped Tracer 29 kills it! Well that may be a little OTT as the Intense Spyder 29 is a more appropriate comparison but the Intense is definitely a step up when the trail gets rougher. And I oughta know as I'm a dealer for Santa Cruz, Intense, Niner, Turner, and Gary Fisher/Trek 29ers.

Happy Trails!
MTB Vince

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post #198 of 262 Old 11-03-2011, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

That's exactly what I mean by "kill." The Cap does not play deeper or flatter than the PB13, but it can play much, much louder without strain.

Of this I have no doubt. But if a person's requirement for loudness isn't that high then the extra headroom of the Cap is redundant right?

Now if you had a large room and wanted to play loud then the Cap is just the ticket.
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post #199 of 262 Old 11-03-2011, 08:07 PM
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at risk of stating the obvious here...I keep seeing comparisons with the SVS 13, even if we were to assume Xmax was equal and they are both ported subs, an 18" driver is very close to double the displacement of a 13"...not much of a fair fight.
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post #200 of 262 Old 11-03-2011, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Vincehoffman View Post

Hmmm, ya... While your 'Cruz Tallboy is really lovely, my pimped Tracer 29 kills it! Well that may be a little OTT as the Intense Spyder 29 is a more appropriate comparison but the Intense is definitely a step up when the trail gets rougher. And I oughta know as I'm a dealer for Santa Cruz, Intense, Niner, Turner, and Gary Fisher/Trek 29ers.

Happy Trails!
MTB Vince

You suck and are totally cool all at the same time. I'm just shocked you didn't say: Jet 9 RDO, Jet 9 RDO, Jet 9 RDO, Jet 9 RDO, Jet 9 RDO, It's the bestest, it's the bestest, it's the bestest!
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post #201 of 262 Old 11-03-2011, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by vitaminbass View Post

at risk of stating the obvious here...I keep seeing comparisons with the SVS 13, even if we were to assume Xmax was equal and they are both ported subs, an 18" driver is very close to double the displacement of a 13"...not much of a fair fight.

It may not be an entirely fair fight, but in many ways it is a very good comparison. The PB13 is such a well-known and vetted sub. It basically set the bar for ported subs. Last December when I got the first 18" Captivator to roll off Jeff's assembly line, I stated that one passive Cap and a Behringer amp = at least two or more PB13's in output and everyone pretty much knew exactly what I meant. Also, a passive Cap + an amp combo is fairly close in price to a PB13. They are also very close in overall size and weight.
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post #202 of 262 Old 11-03-2011, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vitaminbass View Post

at risk of stating the obvious here...I keep seeing comparisons with the SVS 13, even if we were to assume Xmax was equal and they are both ported subs, an 18" driver is very close to double the displacement of a 13"...not much of a fair fight.

It goes without saying that the SVS PC 13 Ultra is a standard of excellence that is pretty much world wide recognized. For those of us who have owned or heard this SVS sub it's an easy water mark to compare the Caps to. It's a known, highly publicized quality for others to easily recognize and understrand in relation to other subs. It is perhaps the most popular top shelf subwoofer in the world.

I also agree with Mojo - it is "killed" by the Captivator. I actually decided to sell both SVS PB13 Ultras I owned for a short while and replace the pair with a single Captivator after hearing the Cap demoed in my room at the KC subwoofer meet. I've held back on saying this everywhere, but it's my solid subjective opinion. This was something I totally didn't expect. I always have preferred two subwoofers over one, even when the two are of a single "class" of subwoofer lower than the single subwoofer. In my room the Captivator filled the space better than two PB13 Ultras -- and very evenly too, as best I could tell. Final note - a passive Captivator ($1500 + ~$200-$300 shipping) and EP4000 amp ($260 shipped from uniquesquared.com) cost right at what a PB13 Ultra costs shipped ($2K shipped). All valid reasons to compare the two.

edit
dang mojo -- didn't see you'd already responded when I hit reply... (we pretty much have the same reply)

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post #203 of 262 Old 11-03-2011, 09:09 PM
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Not to pile on, bur precisely for the reasons above I think an Ultra/Cap comparo is completely valid.

Price.
Dimensions/mass (both relatively huge by most reasonable standards).
Design.

Until SVS introduces a new ported monster, this is what they have around $2k. Simple as that.

And as a former Ultra owner I can attest to its worthiness of the "complete package" crown (performance, waf, value), but when it comes to the first and last of those 3 traits, sorry, it doesn't top the Cap.

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post #204 of 262 Old 11-03-2011, 09:10 PM - Thread Starter
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I also agree with Mojo - it is "killed" by the Captivator.

"killed" by the SubMersive too???
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post #205 of 262 Old 11-03-2011, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Crabalocker View Post

"killed" by the SubMersive too???

Not killed but wounded severely. The PB13-Ultra use to be sealed but the SubMersive busted three ports in its cabinet. This is against HIPAA, but it also suffered a brain injury and just recently had it replaced.

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post #206 of 262 Old 11-03-2011, 09:46 PM
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lol.

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post #207 of 262 Old 11-03-2011, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crabalocker View Post

"killed" by the SubMersive too???

When the PB13 first came out late in the summer of '07, one of it's competitors was the original non-HP submersive. It did not kill the PB13. It could play deeper but the PB13 was better at filling a space with bass. When the submersive HP come out with 2400 watts vs the original's 1000 watts, that pretty much eliminated the output advantage the PB13 used to hold.
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post #208 of 262 Old 11-03-2011, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by TCW1 View Post

You suck and are totally cool all at the same time. I'm just shocked you didn't say: Jet 9 RDO, Jet 9 RDO, Jet 9 RDO, Jet 9 RDO, Jet 9 RDO, It's the bestest, it's the bestest, it's the bestest!

LOL- One of my senior shop guys is real attached to his Rip9. As a matter of fact he just replaced his first gen with the latest version. We've sold a few of the Niner carbon hardtail too but that's about it for us on the Niner front.

As for your Tallboy- well I was really only bustin' your b*lls. Its a great all-round XC/trail machine that a few buddies ride and we've sold a bunch of since its introduction. Were I interested in this category though I'd likely buy the current Superfly 100 dually though. Technologically and from a ride quality standpoint, I think its the king of current 100-110mm 29er duallys.

Around these parts, particularly in some of my favorite rock piles (I mean technical trails!), 100mm doesn't really cut it even when its got 29" wheels. The 140mm front and rear on my Tracer 29 eats those rocks and extra helpings of small drops, skinnys, and other modest-to-moderate sized stunts for breakfast. The Tracer 29 replaced a pimped Nomad last year. Despite the Nomad being an all-mountain industry benchmark, I can't say I miss 26" wheeled all-mountain bike one bit. I literally just strapped on a pair of Easton Haven carbon wheels and the new Fox F34 in place of Stan's Flow Rims on DT Swiss 240 hubs and a Blackbox 140 Reba. I'm lookin' forward to ridin' the new stuff. My guys say the wheels saved a bunch of weight.

And on super buff trails, particularly with 29" wheels, a dually just ain't necessary. I have a tricked out scratch-built 21 pound (with mini-bell and bottle cage!) Fisher Superfly for those smooth fast rides.

Happy Trails!
MTB Vince

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Originally Posted by Vincehoffman View Post


LOL- One of my senior shop guys is real attached to his Rip9. As a matter of fact he just replaced his first gen with the latest version. We've sold a few of the Niner carbon hardtail too but that's about it for us on the Niner front.

As for your Tallboy- well I was really only bustin' your b*lls. Its a great all-round XC/trail machine that a few buddies ride and we've sold a bunch of since its introduction. Were I interested in this category though I'd likely buy the current Superfly 100 dually though. Technologically and from a ride quality standpoint, I think its the king of current 100-110mm 29er duallys.

Around these parts, particularly in some of my favorite rock piles (I mean technical trails!), 100mm doesn't really cut it even when its got 29" wheels. The 140mm front and rear on my Tracer 29 eats those rocks and extra helpings of small drops, skinnys, and other modest-to-moderate sized stunts for breakfast. The Tracer 29 replaced a pimped Nomad last year. Despite the Nomad being an all-mountain industry benchmark, I can't say I miss 26" wheeled all-mountain bike one bit. I literally just strapped on a pair of Easton Haven carbon wheels and the new Fox F34 in place of Stan's Flow Rims on DT Swiss 240 hubs and a Blackbox 140 Reba. I'm lookin' forward to ridin' the new stuff. My guys say the wheels saved a bunch of weight.

And on super buff trails, particularly with 29" wheels, a dually just ain't necessary. I have a tricked out scratch-built 21 pound (with mini-bell and bottle cage!) Fisher Superfly for those smooth fast rides.

Happy Trails!
MTB Vince

You guys are inspiring me! I don't claim to be a MTB hipster, but I have a couple of nice Specialized bikes (I live in Indiana, so not a lot of huge mountains here). I think I will go for a ride today on a decent trail. Up to now I have been enjoying the Cap 1000's so much that I have been trying to see how fat I could get in hopes that I could become a bass trap of some sort to help even out the LF throughout the room. Thanks for the inspiration!
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post #210 of 262 Old 11-04-2011, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincehoffman View Post

LOL- One of my senior shop guys is real attached to his Rip9. As a matter of fact he just replaced his first gen with the latest version. We've sold a few of the Niner carbon hardtail too but that's about it for us on the Niner front.

As for your Tallboy- well I was really only bustin' your b*lls. Its a great all-round XC/trail machine that a few buddies ride and we've sold a bunch of since its introduction. Were I interested in this category though I'd likely buy the current Superfly 100 dually though. Technologically and from a ride quality standpoint, I think its the king of current 100-110mm 29er duallys.

Around these parts, particularly in some of my favorite rock piles (I mean technical trails!), 100mm doesn't really cut it even when its got 29" wheels. The 140mm front and rear on my Tracer 29 eats those rocks and extra helpings of small drops, skinnys, and other modest-to-moderate sized stunts for breakfast. The Tracer 29 replaced a pimped Nomad last year. Despite the Nomad being an all-mountain industry benchmark, I can't say I miss 26" wheeled all-mountain bike one bit. I literally just strapped on a pair of Easton Haven carbon wheels and the new Fox F34 in place of Stan's Flow Rims on DT Swiss 240 hubs and a Blackbox 140 Reba. I'm lookin' forward to ridin' the new stuff. My guys say the wheels saved a bunch of weight.

And on super buff trails, particularly with 29" wheels, a dually just ain't necessary. I have a tricked out scratch-built 21 pound (with mini-bell and bottle cage!) Fisher Superfly for those smooth fast rides.

Happy Trails!
MTB Vince

Do me a favor and throw a medium 2012 Superfly Elite 100 on the shop scale adn let me know what it weighs. Looking for a new ride for the wife. Torn between it, Jet 9 RDO and Scott Spark Pro. Needs to be lighter than my XL Tallboy (25.7 lbs.).

I need to upgrade my subs someday because she's a bass head too. Loves the bike stuff and the theater stuff. A Craptivator or Submissive (hehe), which would she like? All these tough decisions.
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