Captivator or Submersive? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 262 Old 10-19-2011, 03:16 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm sure this question has been asked, probably many times before but if you were to choose which one would you buy, JTR-Captivator or a Seaton Submersive?
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post #2 of 262 Old 10-19-2011, 03:25 PM
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Check out this thread.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1335139
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post #3 of 262 Old 10-19-2011, 03:28 PM
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To me the Captivator had more overall impact but the Submersive had more low frequency impact. The Submersive actually made my ears feel pressurized like I was deep under water, and I didn't get that from the Captivator but it hit my body harder, it was more... violent. That's the best way I could sum up the difference between the two.

If I were buying again today (and price being an object of course) and had to choose I would pick in this order:

passive cap > submersive > powered cap

My only regret right now is that I want another Captivator but I'll have to save for awhile and I'm supposed to be saving for a front projector and screen.
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post #4 of 262 Old 10-19-2011, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crabalocker View Post

I'm sure this question has been asked, probably many times before but if you were to choose which one would you buy, JTR-Captivator or a Seaton Submersive?

It has...

Go to either sub owner's thread and use the search engine within the thread using the competitor's sub name and you'll find comparisons.

Also, here are some existing threads comparing the two (using the advance search engine and "submersive" title search only:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ght=submersive

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ght=submersive

the thread linked by Havok35 is outstanding too for a comparison. The KC boys did a terrific job in their write ups.

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post #5 of 262 Old 10-19-2011, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

To me the Captivator had more overall impact but the Submersive had more low frequency impact. The Submersive actually made my ears feel pressurized like I was deep under water, and I didn't get that from the Captivator but it hit my body harder, it was more... violent. That's the best way I could sum up the difference between the two.

If I were buying again today (and price being an object of course) and had to choose I would pick in this order:

passive cap > submersive > powered cap

My only regret right now is that I want another Captivator but I'll have to save for awhile and I'm supposed to be saving for a front projector and screen.

I'm curious why you put the passive ahead of the powered? I say this as someone interested in the passive myself.
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post #6 of 262 Old 10-19-2011, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhereToStart View Post

I'm curious why you put the passive ahead of the powered? I say this as someone interested in the passive myself.

Only because of the price. If price were no object I'd take the powered Cap first, and have a real tough time choosing between the passive Cap and Submersive. If I could hear them both in my own room it would make that decision a lot easier.

I will say that the Cap sounds sooo good even at low volume with music, but maybe the Submersive does too, I don't know since I've never heard it at low volume.
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post #7 of 262 Old 10-19-2011, 04:40 PM
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I don't see this thread going anywhere productive...they are both awesome top of the line subs of each type.
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post #8 of 262 Old 10-19-2011, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crabalocker View Post

I'm sure this question has been asked, probably many times before but if you were to choose which one would you buy, JTR-Captivator or a Seaton Submersive?

How large is your room? Is it a sealed room or is it open to other areas? This information could help choose the best sub for your room.
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post #9 of 262 Old 10-19-2011, 06:45 PM
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If I could, in your guys' opinion, how would the captivator or submersive hp compare to a DIY LMS 5400 ultra in a 4 cu feet sealed box, such as this setup: http://mirror2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/s....php?t=1313021
?

This is the ultimate throw-down for myself. I would like to get some opinions of those three, say if they were all receiving equal power, 2000w or so.

Which would you choose?
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post #10 of 262 Old 10-19-2011, 06:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


How large is your room? Is it a sealed room or is it open to other areas?

it's kind'a open and odd shaped, the longest wall is 35' and 27' at its widest but the main area is basically 25x23. I was thinking of getting a second PC-13 ultra for in-behind my screen (down firing works well back there). The space is 3' wide and was worried about a front firing sub (air pushing on my screen) but I guess I can turn it sideways???? now I'm really considering to forgo the second SvS and just get the Captivator....or the SubMersive. Suggestions? I really love my SvS but the thought of a Cap or SubM.....mmmmm I can feel movement

When I first got my SvS PC-13 ultra, I couldn't get over the upgrade it was over my old Polk sub, I mean night and day and from what I have been reading, the same level of upgrade is what I can expect with the Cap and SubM. Are my expectations too high?
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post #11 of 262 Old 10-19-2011, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crabalocker View Post


it's kind'a open and odd shaped, the longest wall is 35' and 27' at its widest but the main area is basically 25x23. I was thinking of getting a second PC-13 ultra for in-behind my screen (down firing works well back there). The space is 3' wide and was worried about a front firing sub (air pushing on my screen) but I guess I can turn it sideways???? now I'm really considering to forgo the second SvS and just get the Captivator....or the SubMersive. Suggestions? I really love my SvS but the thought of a Cap or SubM.....mmmmm I can feel movement

When I first got my SvS PC-13 ultra, I couldn't get over the upgrade it was over my old Polk sub, I mean night and day and from what I have been reading, the same level of upgrade is what I can expect with the Cap and SubM. Are my expectations too high?

I doubt you will experience the same upgrade sensation you felt going from the Polk to the svs...but you will still experience something. Think ford pinto to corvette to Ferrari being the cap or subm. Maybe not the best analogy but it amused me for a second.
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post #12 of 262 Old 10-19-2011, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blk02bird View Post

If I could, in your guys' opinion, how would the captivator or submersive hp compare to a DIY LMS 5400 ultra in a 4 cu feet sealed box, such as this setup: http://mirror2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/s....php?t=1313021
?

This is the ultimate throw-down for myself. I would like to get some opinions of those three, say if they were all receiving equal power, 2000w or so.

Which would you choose?

The sealed LMS would need a lot more power to get near the output of the Captivator. It is a very inefficient driver. It also would need eq to compensate for the rolloff in the sealed enclosure. That requires even more power. I'd bet you would need at least triple the power to get a similar output.
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post #13 of 262 Old 10-19-2011, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Havok305 View Post

Check out this thread.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1335139

Quote:
Originally Posted by rboster View Post

The KC boys did a terrific job in their write ups.

Thanks for the nod to our group -

Trouble is - we didn't agree completely. The clear point of note was that those two subs won our meet easily. Less clear was who the sole champion was? The average vote favored the Seaton Submersive for music (sealed dual opposed sub) and the JTR Captivator for movies (ported 18" sub with massive excursion). I don't have any thoughts anew that I haven't already posted in that thread regarding my preference, but I am a very satisfied owner of two passive Captivator Pros currently.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
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post #14 of 262 Old 10-19-2011, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post


Thanks for the nod to our group -

Trouble is - we didn't agree completely. The clear point of note was that those two subs won our meet easily. Less clear was who the sole champion was? The average vote favored the Seaton Submersive for music (sealed dual opposed sub) and the JTR Captivator for movies (ported 18" sub with massive excursion). I don't have any thoughts anew that I haven't already posted in that thread regarding my preference, but I am a very satisfied owner of two passive Captivator Pros currently.

Post you video with the kids sleeping bag.
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post #15 of 262 Old 10-20-2011, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpray1983 View Post

Post you video with the kids sleeping bag.

sure thing -
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post21053018

Here's another video for reference
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCR9i...eature=related

I pm'ed you yesterday OP, but suffice to say --- I don't think my upgrade from the SVS PB13 Ultra pair to the Captivator pair was a minor upgrade.

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post #16 of 262 Old 10-20-2011, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crabalocker View Post

it's kind'a open and odd shaped, the longest wall is 35' and 27' at its widest but the main area is basically 25x23. I was thinking of getting a second PC-13 ultra for in-behind my screen (down firing works well back there). The space is 3' wide and was worried about a front firing sub (air pushing on my screen) but I guess I can turn it sideways???? now I'm really considering to forgo the second SvS and just get the Captivator....or the SubMersive. Suggestions? I really love my SvS but the thought of a Cap or SubM.....mmmmm I can feel movement

When I first got my SvS PC-13 ultra, I couldn't get over the upgrade it was over my old Polk sub, I mean night and day and from what I have been reading, the same level of upgrade is what I can expect with the Cap and SubM. Are my expectations too high?

I don't think your expectations are too high. I think you will notice a big difference from what I've read with others that have upgraded.

I believe in spending in your budget or a bit above for quality, and then adding to it later. Both these subs are quality.

I don't get the fanboys that post videos of their ported subs blowing lots of air around though-does that make the sound better?
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post #17 of 262 Old 10-20-2011, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post

I don't think your expectations are too high. I think you will notice a big difference from what I've read with others that have upgraded.

I believe in spending in your budget or a bit above for quality, and then adding to it later. Both these subs are quality.

I don't get the fanboys that post videos of their ported subs blowing lots of air around though-does that make the sound better?

Haha! Greg! keep in mind it might just make a fanboi out of you yet. Are you going to be sitting on the front row of this meet of yours or not?
just two more days until your audition...

When that explosion happens and you are greeted with a air jet like burst of air over your legs and face I double-dare you not to smile.

Whether you like the effect or don't is immaterial -- I'm just asking you not to break into a goofy fanboi grin... Perhaps I should ensure the camcorder is on you and record the reaction then post it here? hmmmm.... I did offer to run that camcorder at the event?!

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post #18 of 262 Old 10-20-2011, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Haha! Greg! keep in mind it might just make a fanboi out of you yet. Are you going to be sitting on the front row of this meet of yours or not?
Two more days until your audition...

When that explosion happens and you are greeted with a air jet like burst of air over your legs and face I double-dare you not to smile.

Whether you like the effect or don't is immaterial -- just try not to break into a goofy grin... Perhaps I should ensure the camcorder is on you and record the reaction?

Michael had his dual turbos dialed in at his house (maybe it was only 1), and the air effect is kind of fun sometimes.

For me the things I'll be looking for and are thinking about:

Captivator-wind speed of air coming at me. Does it exceed 15 knots? Will it blow my German Shepherd over?




Actually, I'm just going to vote get the Submersive. I can qualify that by having never heard either sub in question, and owning and building minimal #'s of subs, neither or which has been ported.

I guess I won't have to turn the AC down then or get an additional fan, you are saying.


I'll post my thinking prior to hearing everything down the road...sealed vs horn vs ported.
I'm psyched.

Oh yeah, buy the submersive. It will go lower.
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post #19 of 262 Old 10-20-2011, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post

Michael had his dual turbos dialed in at his house (maybe it was only 1), and the air effect is kind of fun sometimes.

For me the things I'll be looking for and are thinking about:

Captivator-wind speed of air coming at me. Does it exceed 15 knots? Will it blow my German Shepherd over?



I laughed out loud!

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post #20 of 262 Old 10-20-2011, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

When that explosion happens and you are greeted with a air jet like burst of air over your legs and face I double-dare you not to smile.

Personally I find that "air jet" effect distracting. Experienced it with my subs when playing WOTW, but can't say I liked it.

Anyway, this thread is interesting since I'm asking a similar question for my next upgrade... Cap or Submersive or FW 18.0 (another one I'm considering).

The only knock against the Cap is I might not have the space to fit it.
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post #21 of 262 Old 10-20-2011, 05:18 PM
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I'm a big fan of both approaches, however they are very different from one another. Be mindful of the new SubMersive-F2, same drives, amp, performance, in a different double-15 form factor.

Here it is next to the flagship Cat12C;


I absolutely love the chamfer,..sweeet.

Good luck


IMO, if the space could be pressurized, go sealed. If the space needs the oommph due to cubes, go vented. Also, if one is so inclined to pursue the Cap, the active version would clearly be my choice, as it addresses many optimization issues.

You couldn't go wrong, depends on your needs/wants. Either one = Perma-grin
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post #22 of 262 Old 10-20-2011, 05:18 PM
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Don't count much on captivator Sales/service.... I hope it is real.. no one answers the phone or even follows up for sale (when u trying to buy their product)... imagine the level of service!
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post #23 of 262 Old 10-20-2011, 05:31 PM
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Ekajnabi,

I had no troubles contacting Jeff (from JTR) and he was very nice on the phone. I just finished placing my order today with Mark Seaton for his Sub F2. I had not spoken to Mark in 2+ weeks and when I spoke with him on the phone he stated that he remembered me (Yah Right, we all heard that before) and then he stated that I was the one running M&K speakers (he was correct), he obviously did.

Still super friendly and answered all questions.

If you can wait a few weeks I will give my impression of what the subs are like. I am going from 1 M&K MX-5000 sub to 2 Submersive F2's.

After I went through this exact process of deciding Cap/Sub it comes down to V8 with turbo or V10 normally aspirated. Two different approaches- both giving great performance. What's your flavor?
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post #24 of 262 Old 10-20-2011, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ekajnabi View Post

Don't count much on captivator Sales/service.... I hope it is real.. no one answers the phone or even follows up for sale (when u trying to buy their product)... imagine the level of service!

JTR Speakers is one guy. Jeff Permanian is his name - both in life and avsforum.

He provides his cell phone number on his website. Give him some time to get back with you...I'd be surprised if he doesn't. You can PM him on this board. If you like several of us will see him in person on Saturday at HuskerOmaha's meet and can ask him if he heard from you.

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post #25 of 262 Old 10-20-2011, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ekajnabi View Post

Don't count much on captivator Sales/service.... I hope it is real.. no one answers the phone or even follows up for sale (when u trying to buy their product)... imagine the level of service!

Jeff answers the phone when I call. This is not JBL or Klipsch with hundreds of employees just a guy trying to start something good.

Anyways I would chose based on goals. If you want to reach very low you have to go sealed and in this case the submersive. The cap has more output at maybe 20 hz but once you go lower the submersive wins hands down. Get enough sealed subs to equal the output then you will feel them just as much. Then again I always build multiples of anything so the output is the same.
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post #26 of 262 Old 10-20-2011, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jchong View Post

Personally I find that "air jet" effect distracting. Experienced it with my subs when playing WOTW, but can't say I liked it.

fair enough! some do, some don't.

Engaging a HPF will help eliminate some (not all of that effect) --

Sealed may be your preference -- nothing wrong with that -- both of these subs are fantastic.

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post #27 of 262 Old 10-20-2011, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

fair enough! some do, some don't.

Engaging a HPF will help eliminate some (not all of that effect) --

Sealed may be your preference -- nothing wrong with that -- both of these subs are fantastic.

Jon-a-than,

Everyone knows a sealed sub is better for HT and music than a ported one.

Oh man, this weekend is going to be funny.

Why hasn't the thread starter ordered a submersive already! Look at the new cabs! BOOM!
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post #28 of 262 Old 10-20-2011, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ekajnabi View Post

Don't count much on captivator Sales/service.... I hope it is real.. no one answers the phone or even follows up for sale (when u trying to buy their product)... imagine the level of service!

I own Jeff's products and had a preceived issue with a driver this weekend (see the JTR speaker thread in speaker forum) and Jeff contacted me over the weekend, then followed this week to see if he suggestion resolved the issue.

Also, one of the speakers I purchased from Jeff arrived damaged, he couldn't have been easier to deal with in resolving the issue.

I'm a fan of his product and his follow up service. I would give him a call and another opportunity to answer your questions.

Ron

PS: I saw that he'll be at the Omaha sub meet this weekend, so he maybe easier to reach on Monday.

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post #29 of 262 Old 10-20-2011, 06:59 PM
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You could get the submerssive and turn on a fan at the right moment to get the ported effect or rope one of them to a ceiling fan to maybe have the first DIY rotary sub to achieve greater extension at higher listening levels.

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post #30 of 262 Old 10-20-2011, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by kwarny View Post

You could get the submerssive and turn on a fan at the right moment to get the ported effect or rope one of them to a ceiling fan to maybe have the first DIY rotary sub to achieve greater extension at higher listening levels.

hahaha.

alright now...

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