SUBFEST 2011-HuskerOmaha and Desertdome's Subwoofer Showdown - Page 3 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #61 of 553 Old 10-24-2011, 07:40 PM
Advanced Member
 
vitaminbass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 560
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post

1) The Rythmik was a DIY box and not ID.

If anything I would think that would only help...unless he left out bracing or had a bad air leak. The ID version is smaller to keep shipping costs reasonable. The DIY plans (at least the ones I used) make a larger box for better extension on the low end. Also, I haven't seen the bracing in the ID version but the DIY plans have pretty substantial bracing.
vitaminbass is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #62 of 553 Old 10-24-2011, 08:21 PM
Senior Member
 
rkinmoval's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 240
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 21
From the least knowledgeable participant...

I showed up rather late due to other commitments. I was able to hear the Captivators on the 2 channel set up while Greg was fetching dinner. In the theater I was able to hear the dual Chase VS 18.1 and the DTS-10 with the Growler. Based on what people have said it sounds like I really missed out on hearing the Submersive. Just my luck.

I did not particpate in any of the voting as I wasn't present for most of the day and did not want to skew any results. For what little I did hear, here is my POV for anyone who cares.

I didn't make it until almost 6:00. When I got there I didn't know a soul and the host was out making sure the troops were fed. I walked in on a little 2 channel demo presented by Jeff and Mark and can honestly say I had no idea who they were. I just thought they were a couple guys playing around until Greg got back. Remember, I was the least educated person there. Mark was educating me about the equipement being used as fast as I could absorb it and you would have never known he was demoing a "competitor's" product during the session based on how complimentary he was. That was first class in my book. He and Jeff truly do work well together.

We listened to a lot of different music tracks and I could not get over how good it sounded. Once dinner arrived I lined up at the hog trough in the kitchen when the others still listening decided to push things a little.

Holy crap! The Captivators with Jeff's 8s could play some unbelievable volume! The bass really hit you right in the chest and it seemed so effortless. I've never heard anything so loud, yet it was still clear.

After dinner we went downstairs to resume the festivities. That's when I heard the CHT VS 18.1s and the DTS/Growler combo. Between those two I have to pick the CHTs hands down. The DTS kicked out some incredible unaudible lows but seemed to have issues at higher volume levels. I was over by the stairwell during the Danley and had my hand on the railing. I could feel it shake in my hand but didn't actually hear much. It was a unique experience to say the least. I'm sure certain passages would amazing as it make your pants legs flutter but it was missing something for me.

The CHTs sounded really nice and would certainly be a great additional to most home theaters, but in the end of the 3 I heard, the Captivators did it for me. I wish I could have heard them in the theater for a straight up comparison as well as the Submersive.

Thanks again to Greg for being a wonderful host and it was a true pleasure meeting everyone else that attended.
rkinmoval is offline  
post #63 of 553 Old 10-24-2011, 08:24 PM
Senior Member
 
kwarny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 291
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by tesseract67 View Post

I have the same sub set up as HO, in a different room. 3 pairs of mains to choose from and you can bring our own. You are invited, nothing formal, just listening and fun.

Sounds fun. Sho-10s (CD) sounds best for the application. It took me forever to get my 340's to sound above good haha. They benefited greatly from absorbing the first reflections even when the speakers were 4.5 feet from each side wall. I will have to get my sub back from my parents house since the way my GF Mom and Grandma arranged her apartment made it impossible to put speakers anywhere . After listening, you could even borrow it for a week or few.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vitaminbass View Post

If anything I would think that would only help...unless he left out bracing or had a bad air leak. The ID version is smaller to keep shipping costs reasonable. The DIY plans (at least the ones I used) make a larger box for better extension on the low end. Also, I haven't seen the bracing in the ID version but the DIY plans have pretty substantial bracing.

I wanted Jeff and Mark to knock on mine later to make sure it was up to standards. I built it up to higher standards than Penngray and Bill Fitzmaurice recommended but had to knock out one of the vertical cross-braces. I knocked on mine at the end of Friday night and it was denser than most (probably since the box is smaller than most). The front baffle is solid with 6 cross braces. The Rythmik seemed quiter than every sub? did anyone hear resonance coming from the box? (even my 10" ported sony would sound louder since the notes took longer to decay and it produced a much fuller sound).

I was also worried with an air leak. My cone was easier to push than the other sealed subs but I never heard an air leak and it would spring right back even when I held it for two minutes the weekend before the GTG (it feels different then in free air). If I remember physics correctly, if air would slowly leak out, the internal and external pressure would be equal so it won't spring back as quick. If the air is not able to escape fast, it should spring right back. The force needed to push increases with negative displacement which is backed up with F=-kx. I figured if there was an air leak that it would show up on the measurements. I was scared at one point looking at the projector (I even checked the extension filter) but the BIC's measurements were still up haha.

The size of the box should not matter. The response about 20 Hz and up will be almost the same whether the box is 2 cu. ft. up to 4 cu. ft. The disadvantage of the smaller boxes is that it leaves less headroom on the amp since the sensitivity of the lower frequencies decreases.

Vitaminbass - I remember when you switched out your Malestrom with your Rythmik. You stated that the Mal is a meat cleaver while the Rythmik is like a scalpel. Could you explain that more? I found the Rythmik to be thinner sounding cause the notes decayed noticeably quicker.

Any thoughts or opinions on any of this matter?

The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge - Stephen Hawking

 

Kyle Bosso - SOB

kwarny is offline  
post #64 of 553 Old 10-24-2011, 08:35 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
HuskerOmaha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Omaha
Posts: 2,155
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Kwarny, Dr. Spankenstein, and HuskerOmaha have posted at the beginning of the thread with their thoughts if anyone missed that.

Pictures are being uploaded as well.


This thing was a blast. I'm sitting down here listening to the WAF-1s in 2 channel and they aren't too bad. Not as dynamic as the SHO-10s but that is expected.

Thanks to everyone for coming and Michael for doing an amazing job at EQ.
HuskerOmaha is offline  
post #65 of 553 Old 10-24-2011, 09:24 PM
Member
 
Technosponge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Western Iowa
Posts: 133
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Pic set 2
LL
LL
LL
LL
LL
Technosponge is offline  
post #66 of 553 Old 10-24-2011, 09:26 PM
Member
 
Technosponge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Western Iowa
Posts: 133
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
pic set 3
LL
LL
LL
LL
LL
Technosponge is offline  
post #67 of 553 Old 10-24-2011, 09:27 PM
Member
 
Technosponge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Western Iowa
Posts: 133
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Pic set 4
LL
LL
Technosponge is offline  
post #68 of 553 Old 10-25-2011, 12:52 AM
Senior Member
 
autox320's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NC
Posts: 457
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Just too bad the DTS-10 had issues and wasn't really tested. I was wanting to hear how others reviewed it.

Is what it is. The rest looked like plenty of fun so thats a plus.

"I should really see what dB levels I'm pushing. Long as it can't foam my beer during a movie we are ok "
autox320 is online now  
post #69 of 553 Old 10-25-2011, 04:21 AM
AVS Special Member
 
MIkeDuke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: eastern PA
Posts: 6,164
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 67
Great job again on the write ups. charts and pics. It seems like it was a fun afternoon.

I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass...and I'm all out of bubblegum .
My System

MIkeDuke is online now  
post #70 of 553 Old 10-25-2011, 04:54 AM
AVS Special Member
 
tony123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Upstate, South Carolina
Posts: 4,992
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 25
I was on vacation and the whole drive back was excited to come home to read all about the GTG. Glad to hear everyone had a good time! As a DTS owner, I'm disappointed that it didn't work out for you. I've lived with a pair for a little over a year now and have had an exhausting journey with them myself. So...I had little confidence that a 10 minute setup was going to yield results at the GTG. If it had, I would have felt quite inept. One perception I've had is that the performance range in the DTS is larger than others I've been around. In other words, when it's off, it sounds more "off" than most.

I'll continue to read with great interest! Any group photos of the people at the meet?

The "Twinseltown" Theater
Construction Thread
tony123 is offline  
post #71 of 553 Old 10-25-2011, 07:29 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
HuskerOmaha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Omaha
Posts: 2,155
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony123 View Post

I was on vacation and the whole drive back was excited to come home to read all about the GTG. Glad to hear everyone had a good time! As a DTS owner, I'm disappointed that it didn't work out for you. I've lived with a pair for a little over a year now and have had an exhausting journey with them myself. So...I had little confidence that a 10 minute setup was going to yield results at the GTG. If it had, I would have felt quite inept. One perception I've had is that the performance range in the DTS is larger than others I've been around. In other words, when it's off, it sounds more "off" than most.

I'll continue to read with great interest! Any group photos of the people at the meet?

Yeah I was super disappointed that we couldn't get the DTS10 to work. Right after desertdome left, it was noticed that J River had added a low pass filter instead of hpf at 15hz. I changed it to hpf and we played some more material that people thought sounded better. At this point we thought we should just stop and wait until we figured out what was going on with the dts10 down the road. I'm sure it is a fine product but not for us on this day.

There are a few group photos with the majority of subs in the garage. I think Technosponge friends that came have those.
HuskerOmaha is offline  
post #72 of 553 Old 10-25-2011, 08:17 AM
Advanced Member
 
Dr. Spankenstein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 700
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I thought the reasoning was to high pass the DTS10 at 40Hz and let it do it's thing on down and let the Growler do the work above 40Hz since that's where it is down 3dB.

I thought it was a good idea as it would free the DTS10 to strut it's stuff.

Oh well...

BTW, don't we owe Jeff a belated Happy Birthday?!?
Dr. Spankenstein is offline  
post #73 of 553 Old 10-25-2011, 08:29 AM
Member
 
Technosponge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Western Iowa
Posts: 133
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I will be using a photo hosting site today to post more pics. I have over 100 to do. The ones in thread were done fast to show stars of show. Got crushed with work but should be done by this evening. I apologize to all for wait.
Technosponge is offline  
post #74 of 553 Old 10-25-2011, 09:16 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
HuskerOmaha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Omaha
Posts: 2,155
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Spankenstein View Post

I thought the reasoning was to high pass the DTS10 at 40Hz and let it do it's thing on down and let the Growler do the work above 40Hz since that's where it is down 3dB.

I thought it was a good idea as it would free the DTS10 to strut it's stuff.

Oh well...

BTW, don't we owe Jeff a belated Happy Birthday?!?

Good call, how was the birthday party Jeff?

Bryan-we used a LPF on the DTS10 around 40hz...the rest is correct. I still want to try this out, and I think in the next few weeks once Chris gets his theater closer to being completed we will get the DTS10 and Growler hooked back up after we examine the drivers and wiring to see if it is done correctly.

I really think it will be a great combo and will feel terrible if it doesn't work in his dedicated HT since I convinced him it would be the best of both low and midbass frequencies.....
HuskerOmaha is offline  
post #75 of 553 Old 10-25-2011, 09:44 AM
AVS Special Member
 
desertdome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Elkhorn, NE
Posts: 1,704
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 191
Since I saved all the REW info I was able to look at the EQ recommended by REW for the DTS-10/Growler. Since the DTS-10 showed extension down below 20 Hz, I set the EQ range for 10-200 Hz. I see now that it bumped the area around 13.5 Hz by 4 dB. This could be causing the drivers to bottom. Looking back over the data I should have started the EQ range at 16 Hz. I was in a hurry and had to leave to pick up my family so I didn't even stay to listen to the sub combo for more than a minute or so.
desertdome is online now  
post #76 of 553 Old 10-25-2011, 10:26 AM
AVS Special Member
 
desertdome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Elkhorn, NE
Posts: 1,704
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 191
The two subs with the flattest frequency response after EQ were the Seaton Submersive HP and the Motor City Custom Audio Turbos (which Seaton developed).
LL
desertdome is online now  
post #77 of 553 Old 10-25-2011, 10:41 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Ricci's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Louisville KY
Posts: 5,082
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 187
Good effort guys.

It's unfortunate about the DTS-10/ growler combo. As I'm sure you guys can attest getting the DTS-10 setup correctly and dialed in is a little more advanced than what is involved with plug and play powered subs. Add in a second sub and another crossover point into the mix with the growler and it will be even more difficult to get the system dialed in well. Horn subs often have a long path for the sound from the driver to emerge and sometimes require delay of the rest of the system to match up the sound arrival well. Getting the DTS and growler plus mains to all integrate well would be tough on the fly with very limited time.

My gut tells me that either the drivers were out of phase or one of them is damaged somehow. A DTS-10 should have plenty of 13-40Hz to compete well with the rest of the subs. If it was lacking in basic output compared to the others something must have been way off.

Anyway it sounds like you guys had fun.
Ricci is offline  
post #78 of 553 Old 10-25-2011, 11:12 AM
AVS Special Member
 
nebrunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: omaha,NE,USA
Posts: 1,093
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 24
updated my reserved slot with my thoughts from the get together.

It was great meeting Greg, Mark and Jeff. Just wanted to add that I am a big fan of Jeff's brother and really loved his work in Blackhawk Down.


My perpetual home theater build - Omaha Theater #5
nebrunner is online now  
post #79 of 553 Old 10-25-2011, 12:14 PM
Member
 
Svendsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Denmark
Posts: 175
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Just reading of your showdown and I'm green of envy - wish I could've been there - but it's a long way to go from europe.
BTW - Do any of you have any idea how something like the larger SVS-subs would have done in such a company??

No waste, grab a bar, get saw on.
Svendsen is offline  
post #80 of 553 Old 10-25-2011, 12:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Archaea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 5,636
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 138 Post(s)
Liked: 479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Svendsen View Post

BTW - Do any of you have any idea how something like the larger SVS-subs would have done in such a company??

Midpack in my opinion having owned two PB13 Ultras in the last three months or so...

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
Archaea's Theatre Room
2011 KC Sub Shootout
2012 KC Blind Sub Shootout
My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint
Archaea is online now  
post #81 of 553 Old 10-25-2011, 01:06 PM
AVS Special Member
 
desertdome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Elkhorn, NE
Posts: 1,704
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Michael spent a longer time in calibrating these subs, I went upstairs and started visiting for a while.

Actually the issue was that these were the first dual subs powered by amps in the rack. We realized we didn't have long enough speaker cables so it took a while to track some down. I think you might have loaned us a pair of Speakon cables with the ends removed.

Total time to EQ was a little over 4 minutes.
LL
desertdome is online now  
post #82 of 553 Old 10-25-2011, 01:15 PM
 
BiGBADDABOOM's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 677
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post

The MCCA Turbos had the same rolloff. All three setups used Dayton SA1000 amps. It could be that the amp has a built-in high pass. I hooked up these subs myself to the amps and checked to make sure the subsonic filter was off. The Turbos' amps had been modified by Sandbagger to have a high pass, but the Daytons used with the CHT subs were stock amps.

The sealed amp had the bass boost on before we applied the Linkwitz Transform in JRiver. I wonder if the boost causes the amp to rolloff earlier. I'll have to experiment with my quad dual opposed sealed that I built using the MFW-15 drivers.

We had many other amps available (Face, Lab Gruppen, Behringer, Crown) but didn't have time to try any. We had wanted to try several different amps with the CHT SS.

The bass boost should be as simple as +3 dB @ 25 Hz, Q=1.4, although I think we've seen 4-5dB for some. If I'm looking at this correctly, these are the two graphs for each labeled "No EQ".

No EQ meaning you weren't applying anything on top with J River, and you had verified the subsonic filter was off on the SS-18.2. If that's correct, then with the stock Dayton amp as shipped, Chase's sealed and vented subs have an identical low end roll-off?



An outdoor response for a sealed subwoofer should be half of that slope from 20Hz down to 10Hz, and this is an in-room, gain accounted for response! Something isn't right.
BiGBADDABOOM is offline  
post #83 of 553 Old 10-25-2011, 01:33 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
HuskerOmaha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Omaha
Posts: 2,155
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Guys,

I think for SubFest 2012, we will have it at a new location.

Subfest 2012

Hope you guys can attend!
HuskerOmaha is offline  
post #84 of 553 Old 10-25-2011, 01:37 PM
Senior Member
 
kwarny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 291
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskerOmaha View Post

Guys,

I think for SubFest 2012, we will have it at a new location.

Subfest 2012

Hope you guys can attend!

If you can dream it, we can host it haha. What are you dreaming of Greg? instead of duals, 100 of each?

The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge - Stephen Hawking

 

Kyle Bosso - SOB

kwarny is offline  
post #85 of 553 Old 10-25-2011, 01:40 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Archaea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 5,636
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 138 Post(s)
Liked: 479
Greg,

Who all voted do we know? IIRC there were six completed scoresheets. Were these the six?

Myself - ported preference!
You - sealed preference!
KCNitro07 - no preference - ported sub owner - mostly new to home audio gear - within the last 3 months - so no real bias - except he loves cheap and he loves his BIC F12.
kwarney - sealed sub owner, but not clear to me from his writeups which he really prefered?
StormWind - sealed sub owner 18.2 - sealed sub preference?
Dr. Spakenstien - sealed sub owner - a7s-450 -sealed sub preference?

Was I the only ported sub preference guy there? Neither here nor there and doesn't change anything - but curious to note. If you other voters are all sealed sub bias and yet the CHT VS and CAPs remained competitive -- that says a little something.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
Archaea's Theatre Room
2011 KC Sub Shootout
2012 KC Blind Sub Shootout
My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint
Archaea is online now  
post #86 of 553 Old 10-25-2011, 01:57 PM
Senior Member
 
kwarny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 291
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Greg,

Who all voted do we know? IIRC there were six completed scoresheets. Were these the six?

Myself - ported preference!
You - sealed preference!
KCNitro07 - no preference - ported sub owner - mostly new to home audio gear - within the last 3 months - so no real bias - except he loves cheap and he loves his BIC F12.
kwarney - sealed sub owner, but not clear to me from his writeups which he really prefered?
StormWind - sealed sub owner 18.2 - sealed sub preference?
Dr. Spakenstien - sealed sub owner - a7s-450 -sealed sub preference?

Was I the only ported sub preference guy there? Neither here nor there and doesn't change anything - but curious to note. If you other voters are all sealed sub bias and yet the CHT VS and CAPs remained competitive -- that says a little something.

I enjoy the transients of sealed subs better but I thought the larger sealed subs were masking detail. The notes kept lingering. It seems like I should of ran mine in low damping to make it sound more bloated and provide more impact. If you think about it, if the wave takes longer to decay, it will be felt longer giving the impression of more slam. I noticed differences in the tonal quality of the Seaton and the CHT which I think has to do more with the harmonic distortion profile. I think it would be fun to level match these two and compare. The vented subs notes seem to decay quicker most of the time (might depend on frequency) but sometimes the notes were harder to differentiate.

So, in that room, between the four, I would choose the ported subs for movies. If the room was extensively treated with bass traps to reduce the excess presence of the notes, I would choose sealed.

The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge - Stephen Hawking

 

Kyle Bosso - SOB

kwarny is offline  
post #87 of 553 Old 10-25-2011, 02:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
desertdome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Elkhorn, NE
Posts: 1,704
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiGBADDABOOM View Post

An outdoor response for a sealed subwoofer should be half of that slope from 20Hz down to 10Hz, and this is an in-room, gain accounted for response! Something isn't right.

The Dayton HPSA1000-R amp measured -14 dB at 10 Hz from the 20 Hz measurement. The current Dayton SA1000 has not been measured, but maybe it has a similar rolloff built in. When I measure HuskerOmaha's CHT 18.1T's we will try them with the Dayton and the Face amp. The Face amp is flat to 7 hz.

Interestingly, nobody has yet commented (I think) that the Submersive "dug deeper" than any of the other offerings. The demo clips were all checked with a spectrum analyzer and many have bass extending down into single digits. Black Hawk Down, Hulk - Cop Car, How To Train Your Dragon, Red Cliff, Bass I Love You and a couple others all had very low content. I was in seat #5 which had 5 dB more of bass below 15 Hz than the calibration mic and I didn't notice any more low bass. It must take several to a lot of sealed subs to really notice the difference.
desertdome is online now  
post #88 of 553 Old 10-25-2011, 02:40 PM
AVS Special Member
 
desertdome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Elkhorn, NE
Posts: 1,704
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 191
I just noticed from the pictures that the dual opposed were both oriented differently. The CHT fired front/rear and the Submersive fired side/side. I wonder what difference, if any, that made on frequency response/extension.

Archaea, I'm curious how my Turbos compared to the SVS PB13- Ultras.
desertdome is online now  
post #89 of 553 Old 10-25-2011, 02:46 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Mark Seaton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 5,978
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiGBADDABOOM View Post

The bass boost should be as simple as +3 dB @ 25 Hz, Q=1.4, although I think we've seen 4-5dB for some. If I'm looking at this correctly, these are the two graphs for each labeled "No EQ".

No EQ meaning you weren't applying anything on top with J River, and you had verified the subsonic filter was off on the SS-18.2. If that's correct, then with the stock Dayton amp as shipped, Chase's sealed and vented subs have an identical low end roll-off?
...
An outdoor response for a sealed subwoofer should be half of that slope from 20Hz down to 10Hz, and this is an in-room, gain accounted for response! Something isn't right.

When I saw the noEQ measurement on the screen of the 18.2 I asked Craig if they had the HP filter off on the amp and he said they had checked the amp. I'm pretty sure this was more a function of an acoustic anomaly in the room around 14Hz than differences in the high pass. Look at the SubMersive response where you can see the raw starting response had a peak and 10dB drop from ~16-14Hz. The outdoor response that results in this curve is only 6dB down from the maximum at 15-16Hz:


If you superimpose this dip/drop on a response that is already rolling off more, the result observed is easily possible. I suspect this dip is related to some combination of the stairway which had an open door at the top and the left wall to the equipment rack and utility area being less solid than the foundation wall on the right.

One other consideration is that these were not frequency sweeps with any sort of windowing/noise immunity, they were RTA-type measurements. At low frequencies noise is a real issue, and given the roll off before any EQ, the response below ~15Hz was likely getting into the noise floor for both the vented and sealed CHT subs, as you see other vented subs and the F20s all hit a floor below which the response doesn't drop. Such measurement is always subject to variation measurement to measurement with the trade off of being much quicker and plenty useful for the higher level ranges were EQ is expected to be used. If you look, the response further smoothed a little down low when desertdome applied the Linkwitz Transform in this graph:


In the end the peak/dip swamps the difference in the roll of of the two subs as it occurs in the middle of the roll off.

Mark Seaton
Seaton Sound, Inc.
"Make no little plans; they have no magic to stir men's blood..." Daniel H. Burnham
Mark Seaton is offline  
post #90 of 553 Old 10-25-2011, 02:51 PM
pbc
AVS Special Member
 
pbc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 5,333
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Desertdome ... the response below 15/17-ish hz looks odd for some of the sealed offerings. Curious, with your ECM8000 (and maybe you've answered this somewhere), but was it a calibrated MIC down to 5hz with the associated calibration file inputted into REW? Or was the "averaged" file used that comes with REW?

Any chance you can post say the Submersive one pre-EQ with the calibration curve of the MIC itself on it as well?

Edit: Or, well, you know, Seaton's response above (which I didn't see as I was merrilly typing away and looking at other graphs in the comparison) may be another explanation. If you buy anything that guy says of course.

 

My DIY Subs ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1233892

Quote:

J Dunlavy:.. if you stop to think about it, no loudspeaker can sound more accurate than it measures.

 

pbc is offline  
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off